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Not having to test, compare or measure results properly is just plain stupid.
Regardless of how slim the chance is that you are wrong, is worth testing. It might just make you even more money. Testing and optimizing should be high priority in any business. |
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Except I mentioned that but apparently we're supposed to already know what sells: :Oh crap Quote:
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I don't see why people feel they have to make nasty personal attacks when discussing this stuff. :(
I still think based on my own experiences and the numbers I see from others the average paysite can expect about a 1% ctr, 1:2000-1:2500 conversions raw, and under 250,000 tube views per day since the views are said to taper off with time. This would equate to approximately one sale every day or two depending on the exact numbers. I don't doubt Ruseful's honesty although I do question whether his claim that 95% of the traffic hitting his site is due to tubes is true as he seems to believe it is. I also am skeptical that he has received no special treatment whatsoever given his connection to some of these tube operators. Likewise I don't doubt Robbie or Nautilus's numbers or honesty either. I know neither of them tend to bullshit about things and they are straight shooters. I would love to see more experiences from other independent pay site owners. Especially those who do not have a stake in promoting the tube model or encouraging other content owners to freely supply their full content to these tube sites. Is there anyone here who was struggling previously who saw this thread and decided to submit some videos and is seeing an amazing return from it with 5-10 sales a day already? Let's hear some experiences. Just make sure to click the first link in my sig at least before you go overboard submitting all your content without running a test. I wouldn't want to be responsible for ruining your business should it not work out after you submit half your member's area and your affiliate sales decline 50% within the next three months. :) |
except for a few exceptions you are only going to hear from the ones who failed. do you think if someone has found a winning formula they are going to share it and increase their competition and advantage in a very competitive market?
in one sense adult is becoming more like mainstream where it is accepted you don't out your marketing techniques and outing others can get you banned on certain boards. |
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Please though in the interests of science share a bit. :) |
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A lot of those DVD companies you talk about already approached me over the years and I already bought their better dvd's. Thats why I know how much of a hassle it is for that whole process to work. It boils down to getting them edited by above standard editors who understand the tube user. Its a major hassle and very time consuming, and its all with older, normally burnt content. For those dvd guys though, I recommend they speak to Stan at Adult Centro, and have their content put online at the Adult Market Place. Thats where a lot of people are buying content right now ;) For me, and the tubes I am now part of now, (in my signature), its far better for me to educate the content owners via the guide I wrote and from publicising our CPP here on GFY and also at the trade shows where I speak on panels, than go buy dvd's and have that huge overhead of getting them tube ready. The PornTube Content Publishing Platform Guide is the first of its type and has been received really well. When content owners reach out to us, we do actually take the time to help them. We would look at what they have, if they have tried uploading to the tubes before and if so, where they failed. We take a lot into account, and I have vast experiance in this area with the 2,000 sites we handled in the YouPorn program. If appropriate, we will manage a tube campaign for them, but this involves serious commitment from their side. They need to commit to a certain amount of clips. These need to be tube specific clips and I will have the editors who edit the clips for DaneJones and Lesbea look over these. We will help them with their watermarks, with their promo tools. We then have our contacts at all of the other major tubes prepare for the individual campaign. This involves having them correctly schedule the release of the clips, in certain order, on certain days. We also optimise the banners that you receive under the video players. We help title the clips, suggest keywords and make sure the clips are correctly tagged. This is normally a 60 day process that is provided by PornTube COMPLETELY FREE. What do we gain? What do all the tubes gain that are contributing to the campaign we are running? A new Content Publisher who we can rely on getting the best possible tube specific longer fulfilling clips to our tubes. Everyone wins. But as your previous post stated, the content obviously has to be up to a certain standard. |
I'm digging this new vocabulary of giving everything away! LOL!
New word for me "Content Publisher" Translation: The guy doing all the work to give it away for free to bring in traffic to a tube site and make them a fortune. Heh-heh-heh :) |
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I imagine it, like so many things in life, is like a Mexican taco stand. If it has one bulb, and a grimy shitty glass covering, and horrid beige psuedo-meat, you do not buy the tacos. If it mimics in any way decent hygiene and pleasing appearance you may indeed buy from it it despite the fact that it is STILL A MEXICAN TACO STAND. A more succinct way to say the above is: better products sell better I'm not sure that will ever change, and I can't see how we pin that on the tubes. It pre-dates them by 11,000 years. However, the other adage is: Location, Location, Location Tubes are now the primary point of entry. If you are still selling great soup at the train station you are not getting the right customers for your great soup and you'll eventually fail as a business. You have to move to where the folks who want great soup are, and you have to do it before you lose all your capital. This is what I'm taking away. You need good product and you need to be where the buyers are. The other day I saw a vending machine selling bottled water right next to a water fountain. Despite the free water, people were still buying branded water. Another day I took the New Jersey Turnpike (toll), it was filled with cars though there are several ways to go around it. I don't know, it happens. If I could pinpoint why some do and some don't sell, I'd be tooooooootally rich. I'll tell you, though, I make mediocre content, if even that. So I'll test the top 10 for a few months and let you know. These tube guys are SMART. The way they write, easily, quickly, and convincingly, without extraneous emotion - the way they execute, their results. Look at Dave at Pimproll. Everyone said, "how can you pay 9.5m for a domain". There are numerous examples of their acumen. I think they have the foresight to know that if all the content producers die off they'll have nothing. Porn users don't like old shit. They need new content. Porn.com has 95,000 clips. Youporn has 150,000. xHamster has 300,000. Xvideos has an astonishing 850,000 clips. There are maybe 2m clips out there. 75% of them probably blow chunks. 1% might be really good. Nobody can control all 100 million jack offs a day. Like Robbie, they go where their dong tells them. The tube game winners will be the ones who make sure their content guys are happy, and not just a few privileged creators. They are vulnerable to disruption and loyalty is destroyed by a mouse-click. They need good content. Need. |
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There are some clips that do well across the board. There are some tubes that have great communities to tap into as well. There are some that we still do crappy numbers on although even 1/2500 is still a vast improvement over 1/25000... :winkwink: Our average retention on those is over 4 months. The type ins are even better for retention. We still juggle the high ctr/shitty conversions vs low ctr/highly branded strong conversions balls, trying always to get better ctr/great conversions - that is where tracking and A/B testing are so critical to success. Do we have other traffic that converts way better? Sure, we are under 1/30 on the majority of review sites - but no where near the volume of traffic and therefore much less brand exposure so there is always a trade off. Why doubt Ruseful? He has been very straightforward and it isn't like he is sucking up to anyone for affiliates, and he has been clear that his sites are merit based just like everyone else that submits as well. Everyone is out there wondering "where are all the whale affiliates?" The major tubes are obviously where the traffic is so what is so bad about working with them as affiliates? I just don't get why people, especially people that used tgps as partners in its heydey, have an issue - people could just as easily jerk off to that content for free as well. (and still do... tgps still send sign ups too last time I looked) The reason I never had the "they stole my content" issue with tubes is because every tube we ever saw our content on took it down with proper - meaning polite too - notice and were willing to work with us to avoid future issues. That is not "sucking up". That is called doing business. |
Many sites are closing cause people are lazy or don't have a clue about what they are doing. For years selling memberships was easy. Now it's not that easy anymore.
Downloading the porntube guide can help you but only if you are willing to work for it. The golden era is not there anymore so we got to step up a little and work for it. I don't doubt the stats mentioned, I know my brother is working the tubes and he and his company are doing a damn fine job at it. |
So, is has détente been reached yet? |
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The problem with the offline DVD people is they rarely talk deals. They want hard facts. Walk onto a stand at a show an offer them $1,000 a scene for the Internet only rights on content over say 4 years old and a load will snap your hand off. In fact some will give someone 5 scenes for that money. But it requires money up front. A lot know what brokering via content providers makes. In fact offer them online only content in exchange for offline and I got a 1 of mine to 5 of theirs deal. I did that with all the hardcore scenes we shot. Teaching an in house editor is a lot easier, still it requires money. I was looking at their stats and reading what they say they're doing. It would seem money isn't the problem. not as cheap as getting others to edit and submit for free though. I turned away from that avenue when I saw their contract. |
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From the second link in my sig http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportu...ost#Evaluation At times there can be a hidden cost for a given action. If the cost seems negligible at first it might create the illusion that there is no cost to an action which appears to generate a gain. BUT there may actually be a great cost there which you are not considering and which will not become apparent until later down the road. This is a part of Business and Economics 101. I learned it in freshman year. The first link in my sig breaks this all down ina different way but I will summarize it again. As you give out more content eiter full scene or near full scene the natural consequence is that less people who view the content will end up buying it. (Does anyone dispute this so far?) There are two primary concerns related to this: 1. Direct marketing effect (Non tube related). As your content becomes more saturated on the large tubes this should decrease your ctr and worsen your conversion ratios to some degree. The effect will likely compound as more of your content is given out freely and time goes on. In this way your existing non-tube campaigns now have a diminishing return. These were sales you would have had before. Now an opportunity cost. 2. Affiliate sales effect (Non tube related, those without full scenes). Just like with #1 the same thing will happen. But in addition to this many of your affiliates will likely see the worsening ctr and conversions rates and will decide to stop promoting you in favor of your competitors who now convert better for them. They gain nothing from your tube campaign. They only lose. I know usually when I see a lot of a sponsor's content all over tubes I pull links because in almost every case their conversions became much worse for me. Worse yet some of your former affiliates will likely eventually be pushed out of business and you will lose some partners. These were people who were pushing you in the past for perhaps years and some may have been fairly reliable partners. One might be tempted to say so what. "Fuck the affiliates" but you don't know what conditions are going to be like one or two years out. Maybe the tubes you rely on will decide to push other sponsors instead. Maybe they will open their own sites and kick you out. Maybe there will be a government crackdown. Maybe as affiliates disappear they become so saturated with competitors that your campaigns will do 1/10th of what they did before. Now what will you do? Submit 10-50 times the content? :upsidedow If you are smart you will want to make sure these hidden opportunity costs do not exceed any perceived gains from your tube campaigns. Make sure you are aware of and are not underestimating the possible negative effect of throwing out a significant amount of content freely in highly visible places. Ruseful by his own admission claims he basically started with nothing for direct and affiliate sales. He says 95% of the hits to his pages are due to tubes (I find that hard to believe but he seems to really believe this). That's a very different case than an established site which does over a million dollars in sales and has a large affiliate base. :) |
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I'm confused about this u-turn Paulie? |
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So I don't quite know where your little outburst came from |
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A major factor you may be overlooking is that please don't forget, some smaller tubes (thousands of them) rip the best performing content from the main tubes each and every day, so with strategically placed watermarks, and pre rolls and post rolls on their videos, they actually get significantly more exposure than they can account for. This is a big part of the 2% that they refer too as direct type ins. Hope that clears up where the 3% comes from that they refer too. |
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I have been inside a lot of websites shot by people who are lauded here. These guys are simply not good enough. They shoot hardcore dull porn that all blends into one. The scenes all start to look the same and follow the same format time after time. No comedy, no closure, no reason for the fucking, and the girls mouthing the same sound bites over and over again. No matter how clever a person is with the latest equipment, the vital skill in porn isn't camera's, lighting, etc. It's the shooter seeing the fantasy in his head and getting the model to perform as he needs. We sell fantasy. If we can produce it. The biggest sex organ is the brain. It's not "I would fuck her". It's "Would she fuck me?" |
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The typical legal tube usually has two banners and a link or two in addition to the existing watermarks. Presumably the effective ctr will be 3-4 times what it would be with tube where you are relying on watermarks to drive traffic. Plus the legal tube likely has a significantly better conversion ratio due to less full scenes. This might tie in with "2. Affiliate sales effect" in my previous post. |
there is some great info in here with real world experience and stats to back it up.
on the other side we have wall of text theorizing on why that can't really be possible. educational thread for sure. in more ways than one. |
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However with offline DVD producers. You go to the people who can supply the raw product and in niches you need. There's no shortage of great porn to acquire, just a shortage of people who can afford it. |
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As you learned from that nasty business with your ex assistant. |
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http://www.youporn.com/watch/7709223...-be-porn-star/
This is a FakeAgent clip that we put on YouPorn just today. Its had 350k views already in around 18 hours, very high rated (93%) and has 6 great comments. The clip is 12 minutes 4 seconds long. Has a great pre roll, great post roll and watermarked very well, so it is easily identifiable on the tubes. http://www.youporn.com/partner/fake-agent/2265/views/ This link will show we had over 80 videos online on YouPorn since mid January and have had around 50million views. When that clip is ripped from Youporn by users and placed in their profiles on other tubes or ripped by the other tubes, yes, some may remove the watermark, but most do not bother removing the pre roll and post roll parts of the video, so the FakeAgent clip remains branded, and attracts direct type ins. This traffic is GOLDEN, its affiliate free, but you can't account from where its coming from, but no complaints of course. |
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adapt or die in it's purest sense. |
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You'll see the sheer amount of direct type in traffic that I am continually referring too. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7209821/screenshot_83.jpg Reason for edit was to post the actual image, not just the link :) |
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Off topic but ... Did you guys start out in 2002 with paysites? |
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I joined the team at Dreamstar Cash in Jan 2012 and we run PornTube, 4Tube and Fux |
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You might want to talk him through the image you posted. |
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Gotcha .. I wasn't sure if you were the "owner" of Dreamstar Cash or not. For some reason I thought "Dreamstar Cash" started out with Paysites in 2002-2005-ish. |
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I am now part of PornTube looking to build another YouPorn :) Pre starting at YouPorn in 2006, I was a dog breeder. |
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But when it comes to the niches that I AM an expert at? I pretty much know exactly what my target audience wants. I write it, shoot it, produce it, edit it, and even shoot the still pics. Every second of the video is designed to entertain guys who love big titties. I shoot every video with the trailer in mind. And each of our little productions has a storyline that has a definite beginning, middle, and ending. That's why the tour sells so good. It IS a tube: http://claudia-marie.com/tour/ That's what I meant about not needing to "test" what I am already really, really good at doing (giving big tit fans what they want). Now as an affiliate...I'm always willing and able to learn what sells other niches to their potential customers. But again...I think the guys who truly love what they produce are the experts and know exactly what their audience wants. So I defer to their knowledge. And that's what I meant about testing and following what my cock tells me. :) |
I can confirm that the numbers Ruseful and JT (ThePornTubeGuy) offer up here are realistic, and the advice is extremely valuable.
This thread has more useful and actionable information than most anything you have read or will read on GFY or any other board if traffic and growing your brand online is your concern. |
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We all have seen some of the most amateur shitty looking (to us) tours outsell some of the most polished, tested, and analyzed tours. The key is knowing what your audience is looking for. You could say I've been "testing" that all my life. :) |
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You know what? It's been a while since I tried out Pornhub and found it sucked.
ThePornTubeGuy...I'm going to give it a shot and see if what you are saying is true. :) |
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Only testing, testing, testing can help in circumstances like that. With all due respect, I don't care how good anyone's hunches, instincts, knowledge, experience is - that is only going to become evident through thourough testing. |
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If you don't, hit me up and I will tell you how to get it for free and not from a sponsor. Content you will own the license for. Quote:
Anyone who wants to know how to legally acquire good level content free can hit me up. I'm not talking Rev Share. Straight deal Quote:
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email jt at PornTube for details!! |
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