Hate to break it to you but you're the one who tried using the cost comparison of OS X and windows as a talking point.

Also, I don't condone those who use pirated versions of OS X. I legally purchased both Snow Leopard - via cd - and Lion via the app store. And if you knew anything about the 'hackintosh' world then you would know that Apple hasn't gone after anyone in it for the very reason that their claims wouldn't hold up in court. I'ts been gone over endless times, and apple is quite aware of the hackintosh community.

But I digress. Don't let facts stop you from wasting money on the same cheapest bidder products that are found everywhere else lol. Keep on with your moot point apples and oranges comparisons if they help convince you that you're not wasting money ;)

Apple rocks

I'd buy one if it didn't come with that huge apple logo.

After just a couple of Windows upgrades you'd be ahead money wise.

Windows 7 Ultimate is $499 here. Apple OS X is $30.

I got 6 years out of my Powerbook which is now being used by someone else and still runs OS X fine.

I've had 3 years years out of my secondary Macbook Pro and it also still runs fine.

Most people I know running PC notebooks tend to need to upgrade every 2 years or so.

So over the lifetime of the machine I might spend a couple of hundred more dollars than a Windows PC user. For fucks sake I can spend more than that cost difference on a trip to the pub.

I'll wont lose sleep over spending a few dollars more.

Again with that comparison... And yet you're failing to realize that it's not like Micro$oft gives you a new OS every 6 months or every year. After XP came the joke called Vista. Vista was pretty much the Windows ME of 7. After Vista came 7.

XP was released in 2001
Vista was released in 2007
7 was released in 2009

Not many people, especially those like us in the business world, would be running the same hardware box for 8+ years. So your price comparison is moot.

And here's another simple fact for you. The only - and I mean only - reason that Apple refuses to open OS X up to the 'PC' world is because people would realize just how much money they are wasting on Mac hardware. The drivers are pretty much all there - which is the most important thing. And these days, you don't even need to use hacked kernels anymore on most intel machines capable of running Lion. There is actually very little that would need to be done for Apple to officially release to the intel PC crowd - AMD is another story and isn't covered in this debate for obvious reasons - and yet they refuse to. And it's very easy to see why.

Not that I blame them or anything, I mean, how could they in their right mind justify charging the insane prices they do for hardware if it becomes widely known public knowledge that their hardware is the same as the hardware I have in my pc?

Oh, and to make 1 point about cost...

My current system cost me upwards of $8,000 all in all. The same specs on a Mac Pro would have ran me twice that much. No matter how much I like OS X, there is no way I can justify - to myself, or business expense - spending twice the money one the same hardware.

Not to mention, that would be 16 new versions of windows before I'd break even on the cost of a Mac pro with the same specs ;)

How long would you be running one then ?

We still have some 24" Core 2 Duo iMac's in the office which we bought in 2006, we might get another year or so out of them. That's 7 or 8 years. They run OS X pretty well, a couple even do video tasks. No need to replace them.

My old Powerbook, which I got 6 years out of, is still running with someone else, it's only running Leopard so might be retired this year. It's an almost 9 year old machine is great condition. The only reason that will be retired is because it wont run Lion (G4 Processor as opposed to Intel in the current Macs).

I still think when you factor in the high cost of Windows and the high cost of support in the business world, you're not that far behind in cost buying a Mac over a Windows PC.

I've never kept a box for more than 3 years. Not because anything failed, but because I like having newer and faster hardware. I likely won't upgrade this box for a while though as it has quite enough power already, but even if I kept this exact hardware set up for 10 years, I still wouldn't come close to saving money on a Mac pro with the same specs from the cost of upgrading windows.

Oh, and about that high cost of support.. yeah, I've never needed to contact microsoft for support, ever. But then, I only use windows for gaming anyway... and I'm not suggesting at all the Windows OS is better than OS X because it's not.

When we had Windows machines, our non technical staff often needed our support guy to come in and fix problems with the network or with the Exchange server or whatever. Since we went 100% Mac he never got called again. It's a big factor.

On a personal level I've had Macs since 1984 - 1995, then went Windows between 1995 - 1999, then back to Mac in 1999 just before OS X came out. OS X was the killer, knowing it was based on NeXTStep was a huge factor from both a development and usability perspective. The only other OS I use is Centos on our servers.

I was about to order one today but the budget for my new project just went waaaaay up so I am gonna wait and see how things turn out first.

I have a huge cock 100

Excuse me, but I live in a 20,000 sqf porsche. Whats that make me?

Edit: The support thing - especially network and exchange - is generally a windows specific problem. If your business ran linux, you'd likely have the same experience that you have running OS X. So that's not necessarily a bonus point for OS X, but more a deduction in points for windows.

When i first put this machine together, I was all over running Snow Leopard, then Lion. I personally believe that since I bought and paid for the software, it's mine to use how i want. Apple has yet to come after anyone in the 'hackintosh' community yet, and likely never will. I've never once been concerned about being held legally liable for my decision to use software that I paid for on hardware that I paid for. I have much more important things to worry about.

I ended up dropping OS X on this machine after Lion because - as with SL - I had some issues with my cpus running hotter than they should be. Now, if I were a master at fixing dsdt's - which btw, the windows world made it too easy for hardware manufacturers to become lazy with proper bios code - then i would still be running Lion on this machine. If I had a bigger voice in the 'hackintosh' community and could get some dsdt masters to help me, then I would likely still be running Lion. But alas, neither of those things are true in my case so I eventually had to drop Lion.

Personally, I now run LMDE on my workstation. Mint because I like their menus, and debian testing because I love bleeding edge. My servers run debian squeeze. I also have windows installed on this box but only ever use it for gaming, and sometimes when I need to run photoshop.

Now, if I could justify the added cost of a Mac pro with the same specs as my machine ha then i would likely just buy one because I do like OS X. But when it comes right down to it, for high end machines, there is no justification whatsoever that would make me kick out 2x the amount I paid for this machine just so I could run OS X 'properly'.

My PC runs circles around my Mac when it comes to video rendering.

My machine runs 2x Intel Xeon E5620 Westmere 2.4GHz processors. The same exact processors that were available in Mac Pro's when I built this machine.

They are (were) the same exact processor/chip.

And in regards to other Macs, they use the same exact i5's and i7's that are available for PC's. There is no chip/processor difference whatsoever.

Same thing with the video cards. Well, ok, the bios/firmware of the video cards are written differently because they have to support EFi but the hardware specifics themselves are exactly the same. And you can reflash the bios/firmware with the PC counterpart and run them in a pc just fine; not that the average user ever would but it serves the purpose of proving that they are exactly the same hardware wise.

Same thing with the RAM, HDD's, etc.

Not to be rude but sorry, you should at least try to sound like you know what you're talking about before claiming someone else is misinformed.

I'm buying one of the new MBP's today but not one of the retina display models. I'd love to have it, of course but it's not worth the extra money and storage downsize to me at this time.

I've been waiting almost a month for the new model to come out, The CPU and Nvidia GPU are what I was holding out for.

The best use of Retina displays, IMO is on small devices like phones and tablets. Other than graphic artists and tweaks the best use of it is to give full HD resolution on displays which would be limited to 480p or less due to size without it.

I wouldn't mind having a retina display TV though. Films made in full 4D resolution are just now coming to market, it would be nice to have that much HD in a 40-50 inch flat screen.

FUCKING LAME THERE IS NO 17" WTF?

http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/

I have 2 x iMac27's on my desk. Accounting has one too, which runs both Lion and Windows 7 at the same time (amazing). Brooke has one on her desk too. These are amazing, awesome machines. Truly worth the money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4D_film

I haven't heard of any 4D movies coming to market, personally. I'm not sure how much of a market there is for theme parks, etc. Apparently they are being made, though.

Chair movements don't sound very taxing on the rendering process, and don't have anything to do with the resolution of a display.

Never understood why people get so crazy for MAC's and Apples...

I can build something way better (desktop pc) and custom made on my own for half the price.

Some people are seriously brainwashed to buy all macs and apples and iphone, after all the years of hollywood movies showing and marketing steve jobs products.

The most funny part is when I see some idiot sitting at a starbucks with his iphone and reading Steve Jobs biography. That tells me people are seriously brainwashed.

Period.

I didn't :pimp

So I went down to the Emeryville Apple store today and asked to see the Retina 15" MBP and the guy who I asked seemed really put off that I was asking about it so soon. I told him I was kinda disappointed they don't have their displays ready to coincide with the launch of new products... because that's how it's been in recent memory. That's one of Apple's great abilities is having products ready to see ASAP.

So I asked what the estimate was on the displays being set up... he said "it's in limbo". WTF does that mean? I asked when it would be available to purchase, and he said "we're not sure."

These Apple retail employees aren't too helpful... it kinda seems like they're just equipped to answer the most low-level of issues.

Keep eating McDonalds then.

As much as the specs make me cum .... my mid 2011 13" 8GB i7 MacBook Pro with 250GB OWC Mercury Extreme SSD will continue to serve me for a few more years ...

A better display and 4mm shaved off the chassis is not enough to make me trade up ..

Not yet .... :winkwink:

i CAN afford the new Retina MacBook Pro...

But at the moment, I dont want one... :(

http://maxcdn.liewcf.com/blog/wp-con...y-Features.jpg

I used the Apple configuration guide to assemble a decent retina display MAcBook Pro notebook with solid state drive and an external 27" Thunderbolt monitor, plus a bunch of other add-ons, which bumped up the price from $2,428 up to $4488.94 (and that doesn't include putting off an external RAID storage system). :helpme

:stoned

ADG

I ordered 4 pieces for our top management. Whatever you say here about mac - a manager works much faster and more efficient while he is on MacBook. Tasks really fly. So don't hate it, you will end up working less and make more money with these machines!

It's the crew!

I was mocking the people that post about hating macs/windows/linux/android/iOS. I am a mac user. Have been since my Apple II

:)

three years ago i made the switch from windows to mac... i was scared because of how expensive the macbook pro was, so i bought the cheapest one i could and figured if i liked that one i would eventually buy something better.

three years later and constant use of this laptop and not one single problem... ever.

money well spent

like another posted stated... perhaps the software and hardware are no better than windows machines you can build for half the price.... the point is that the reason people love their macs is because they always work, and they always deliver exactly what you expect from them.

that, is priceless

i would love to get the new retina display macbook... but unfortunately, this laptop still has a few good years left in it. who knows how long it will last considering it still performs exactly the way it did 3 years ago

sure the battery only lasts me 7 hours now, instead of the 9 when i first got it, but i think i can live with that :)

I certainly never thought this thread would degenerate into people arguing over which OS or computer someone should use. </sarcasm>

Those prices seem insane and once it comes where i live it will be 50% more. The US prices are the lowest in the world on Apple products.

Also i have my windows PC now about 4 years and zero problems other then the fan on my CPU which was replaced in 15 minutes for 30$. Also added an SSD 2 years ago. The price for the whole thing with two 24' Dell screens was less then 1500$. I really have zero problems with it and it runs 12-15 hours per day. Not sure how upgradable and do it yourself fixes/upgrades are on iMacs? I do have an Iphone and the new ipad but don't see the point in a 4000$ MBP.

I was aiming at MACs a time ago, but since the price appeared to high for me I went with Dell.... sigh. One day maybe .... :(

Gotcha. Your brand of sarcasm is too elite for me. :)

People arguing over operating systems is like arguing over the brand of their electric screwdriver... or their hairdryer. They're tools like any other... It just comes down to what feels better in your hand. Want something stylish? Something with great materials and aesthetic details? Well, you're gonna pay more for it...

I'm a huge BMW and Porsche fan... and I love those little details. The stitching across the edge of the dash, the perfect ergonomics of the seats... shit you just can't get with any other vehicles.

Frankly I can use anything and feel comfortable with it, if I need to... I'm really not that picky when it comes to just getting the job done. But when it really comes down to it... what would I rather have? I mean, if you've got the money, you can really think about the small details of your tools. These are the small details. It's no longer about just "getting the job done"... it's about "if I lived in a perfect world, and used the most perfect and aesthetically pleasing tools... what would I use?"

As a owner of a M5 and 3 other M3's I can say that the quality with BMW is really not there.. yes a fun car to drive but they totally lack all luxury options that you can find in MB or the new caddies.

Hmm... I agree on the part of MB, and they certainly aren't at the level of Porsche... but I disagree in terms of Cadillac. Cadillac does not in my opinion produce a very polished product. Their stuff seems... poorly built & poorly designed. Their ergonomics are par for GM and I really can't handle most of their vehicles. My grandma has an STS... Suspension wayyyyy too soft... wayyyyy too floaty... strange being so damn close to the ceiling in the back seats... the whole thing just felt fucking weird. The way the seat belts extend... the distance of your arms to the gear selector... the feel of the steering wheel... just the whole nine yards felt like they didn't put a whole lot of thought into it.

Yes if you can't build a stable PC yourself then money is probably well spent paying Apple instead.

Just to let you know what you pay for your Apple OS...
Below are just a couple of samples. Could have picked cheaper PC hardware to widen the cost gap even more between buying from Newegg or Apple Store.


Mac Pro (12-core)

CPU: Two 3.06GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon
Memory: 64GB (8x8GB) 1333MHz DDR3 ECC R-DIMM SDRAM
Harddrive 1: 512GB solid-state drive
Harddrive 2: 1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s hard drive
Graphics: ATI Radeon HD 5870 1GB
Display: Apple LED Cinema Display (27" flat panel)

Total: $10,348.00

------------------

PC Watercooled (12-core)

Motherboard: EVGA Classified SR-2 270-WS-W555-A2 LGA 1366 Intel 5520 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 HPTX Intel Motherboard - $530.00
CPU: 2 x Intel Xeon X5690 Westmere-EP 3.46GHz - $3300.00
Memory: Kingston 64GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 ECC Registered Server Memory DR x4 - $850.00
Harddrive 1: OCZ Vertex 4 VTX4-25SAT3-512G 2.5" 512GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive - $600.00
Harddrive 2: Western Digital VelociRaptor WD1000DHTZ 1TB 10000 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - $300.00
Graphics: PowerColor LCS AX7970 3GBD5-W2DH Radeon HD 7970 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready - $700.00
Display: Dell UltraSharp U3011 30" Black 7ms IPS-Panel - $1300.00
Power supply: SILVERSTONE ST1500 1500W ATX 12V 2.3 & EPS 12V SLI Ready 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Active PFC Power Supply - $400.00
Case: COOLER MASTER COSMOS II RC-1200-KKN1 Black Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case - $350.00
Cooling System: ERM-3K3UC Liquid Cooling System, Copper - $1170.00
Waterblock, fittings, etc - ~$250.00

Total: $9750.00 (cheaper, better cpu, better video card, fully water cooled and easy overclocked 4GHZ+)

------------------

PC Sandy Bridge (16-core)

Motherboard: EVGA Classified SR-X 270-SE-W888-KR LGA 2011 Intel C606 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 HPTX Intel Motherboard - $650.00
CPU: 2 x Intel Xeon E5-2690 Sandy Bridge-EP 2.9GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 2011 135W 8-Core Server - $4060.00
Memory: Kingston 64GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 ECC Registered Server Memory DR x4 - $850.00
Harddrive 1: OCZ Vertex 4 VTX4-25SAT3-512G 2.5" 512GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive - $600.00
Harddrive 2: Western Digital VelociRaptor WD1000DHTZ 1TB 10000 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - $300.00
Graphics: SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 7970 OC 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready - $480.00
Display: Dell UltraSharp U3011 30" Black 7ms IPS-Panel - $1300.00
Power supply: SILVERSTONE ST1500 1500W ATX 12V 2.3 & EPS 12V SLI Ready 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Active PFC Power Supply - $400.00
Case: COOLER MASTER COSMOS II RC-1200-KKN1 Black Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case - $350.00


Total: $8990.00 (not even going to comment the difference...)

--------------------


Oh and by the way, I don't hate Apple.