I don't see where someone's reputation could be getting soiled when the whole incident is very well documented across various boards though.

Here is the original topic and the first few replies:

http://tinypic.com/r/34he1s9/6

or http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...t=clnk&g l=us

From my last post in the deleted thread:

http://tinypic.com/r/98sxlc/6

5-26-2003:

A screenshot of the mpa2 top admin screen showing the shave feature which was latter present in early 2004 (not the date of Garry's post above)

http://tinyurl.com/yt98j

Note that Sextronix has claimed that the screenshot is forged. I don't know about that. However other people such as Fabian from Manwin confirmed this was the mpa2 top admin screen at the time when he worked at TMM/Nats. So that part is not in dispute.

I know I haven't made any erroneous statements. Only the truth. No apologies will be forthcoming from me.

Bingo - we have a winner.

The thread is not deleted, but moved to a closed off section where it can be retrieved in the event of future legal reasons.

But with that said, over the years we have been hounded, spat on, harassed, and lied about over and over again. Most times by the same people, or the same people behind it. It has not been fair, and it has been repeated over and over again. It is of course damaging to us, but more importantly, it could be damaging to our clients - which is the last thing we would ever want. So when this came up again this time, by someone behind yet another "nick", the final straw was broken.

Since the MPA2 (not MPA3) incident a DECADE ago took place, we have repeatedly apologized.

It has been many many years, and many things have happened in our industry. With us, our clients, and our competition.

Here are some posts in OLD threads that hopefully can shed some light on the issue:

01/02/2006: https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=8980451&postcount=34

Highlight of post by Garry:

"I will tell the story again.

When we started to write the MPA2 program like 6 ( SIX ) years ago we got told that this would probably be a great feature to add. Stupid as we where we wrote this in and started to promote the program, then we pretty fast got reactions from not only webmasters who have seen the online demo BUT also from program owners. We realized how stupid this was and we took it out from the code.

Yes we did a mistake and we are really sorry for that. But we where just a programming company that programmed what was requested at that time. You have to remember that the adult business was totally different back in 2000 when we first wrote the mpa2, and the code wasn't for long in the program either before we took it out of all programs!"

12/07/2004: https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=6014128&postcount=1

Highlight of post by Garry:

"Yes we did a bad choice when we gave after for adding the module and for that we are sorry, but we have learned and we have paid our price. "

**

Signupdamnit (whoever you "anonymous" person is) - We find it highly suspicious that you have spent so much time on finding negative information about us after all those years, yet couldn't find these. Did you do all this work all on your own?

Things that makes you go hmmmmm...

:2 cents: Oystein :2 cents:

Well the whole thing was that screenshot of MPA2 shave module was the physical proof we all finally got that there was 100% for sure, for real industry shaving.... before that everyone knew there was shaving, but this was the first real hardcore evidence at just how prevalent it was. Honestly back then, I didn't give a fuck if they took 10% off the top... shit was easy to make anyways.

That is why this is always brought up every couple years... it was a milestone in adult affiliate history us oldschooler's won't ever forget.

this was 8 years ago, not very relevant in my opinion

http://buymarijuanaseeds.com/communi...se-jpg.236910/

Question from someone who was not around at that time and thereby unaffected:
How long exactly was the shaving feature in the system? It should be pretty easy to go back in time and just show the version numbers, where it started and where it ended.

Also, to be speaking about that "we have paid our price" in an apology shows that you seem utterly focused on YOU having paid (lost) enough sales/income and want to move on. What about the hundreds or maybe even thousands of affiliates who got screwed out of their income because of your shaving feature? All you seem to have to offer them is:
"Yes we did a mistake and we are really sorry for that. But we where just a programming company that programmed what was requested at that time."
Yeah, that very nice, sincere and most of all deep apology will really help to ease the pain of people who got royally assfucked from this...

That all makes your slogan "We make affiliates and program owners more money" ring pretty empty to me.

So you admit that you had it moved? "Future legal reasons" What are you going to do sue everyone for telling the truth? If that's the case then it definitely doesn't look like you guys changed very much in the last decade.....

What you really should do now is ask that the old topic be restored in full to show you have nothing to hide. Then quit trying to call everyone who ever brings up the incident a troll or a member of some sort of conspiracy against you. Let time heal your wounds.

The only reason I replied in the old topic was because the link to the "apology" (even Yanks_Todd admitted it was weak) you gave before was a very weak apology and your excuse cited was that you put the shave feature in to "help prevent affiliate fraud". For you to still be advancing that lame bullshit excuse in 2012 just shows there are ethical problems still on your end. Not to mention it being an insult to the intelligence of affiliates. IMO, this is much worse than the original incident itself.

Try being honest, admit your mistakes, and quit trying to push people around. Then you won't have to have threads removed or have people bringing up your skeletons. I gain nothing by doing this but I did it because your actions necessitated it.

wait wait wait... you mean this is happening again? all the nats databases were "stolen" and later spammed?

didnt this go down a few years ago as well?

its like i leave GFY for a few weeks and we went back in time.

i can say that both sextronix and the fuckers that run collegefuckfest both stole revenues from my accounts using the built in shave feature that was once in MPA. to the tune of $10,000+. that being said...

why beat on OY? he has said he is sorry a million times and even ive kicked him around a bit for it. Ultimately guns dont kill people, people kill people.

Mansion as a company did not steal from you, the idiots running the programs did.

shaving with nats is very easy to do if you know what your doing. all you have to do is change the program that is in the nats code on links to join, to a hidden program the user does not have access to. throw in a random function to only take X % and your now stealing joins.

moral... dont do business with people you dont trust?

From the testimony of others on various boards I know it was in there for at least part of 2003 and 2004. There are some honest sponsors who spoke out about it such as the people from medium pimpin.

In OY's referenced post from 2006 they seem to imply (six years ago) that the feature might have been present as early as 2000. So that's potentially four years from 2000 to 2004. I may have misinterpreted.

WTFbucks spammed webmasters who joined the lords of porn, niceratios, vidz and eurorevenue affiliate programs. All programs were on NATS3. Little after, TMM released a security patch for NATS3. Xxxjay from lords of porn and Nicky from Eurorevenue responded and were angry at the hackers. After a massive outcry, WTFbucks made a weak apology for what they referred to as "the incident". Curiously, the niceratios representative on this board, michael.kickass has not yet commented, but keeps kissing WTFbucks' butt in the WTFbucks promotional threads.

A shave free MPA3 was released in 2004.

Annnnnnnnd now it's 2012.

Please get back into the time machine and come back to us. This is a silly fight to pick.

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DWB, I get it. OK. You've made a post like this three times now. This is why I originally specifically asked for the input of affiliates primarily. I realized that some people might possibly have a conflict of interest in that they might be using mpa3 now or may have used mpa2 in the past maybe during the time when the shave features were present. With all due respect though because I usually respect your posts. I just disagree with you here. I've explained a few times already that my issue wasn't primarily the actual incident but rather the reaction to it from Mansion Productions up to this time. Besides affiliates still have a right to bring up these things should they wish. The facts are the facts.

bingo!!!!!!!!!!

I surf for old threads on gfy via google

Signupdamnit,

I wonder why you have a personal vendetta against us?! You said that if we only could show you 1 post where we apologized for this, then you would leave it alone.

Well clearly you have not spent to much time trying to find all the posts where we have said we where sorry for adding this 10 years ago, but you don't even want to accept it now as we show them to you.

This only proves, in my eyes, that you are only after trying to hurt our company!

This feature was a bad thing. We have admitted that! And we have learned our lesson, and it?s why we have spent so much time and money to make our MPA3 program the safest software out there.

You will not find many posts about MPA3 that is about ?hacked? databases, master backdoor password, email databases and so on. But this, I guess, you are not interested in?

Please also know that the feature was not for long in the MPA2 program before we removed it completely. And then later we came with MPA3.

Here is my original answer to the first thread about this.

?I'm not sure if we even should bother to spend any time on this thread. This looks like a bad try of a cover up and to try to move the focus away from yet another ?hack? of a competitor of ours.

And to you who say we have not said we were sorry that we added this feature, please read the rest of the threads and posts.

We are the only company that have been audited by a third party company because a company that are on the stock market was going to use MPA3. I whonder WHY we where the only company saying yes to this?

We are also the only program that is used by a third-party processor. Moreover, everyone who knows a little about processors and all the security they have to go through to be accepted by visa and master card know what this means.

Yes, we made a mistake many years ago. We have apologized many times since then.

If there is one company that you should trust it should be us. Imagine what would happen to our company IF we ever did something like this again!

The fact is that we have said no to different companies wanting to do different ?shady? things to the program. Like for instant being able to choose if they want set a signup manually to active or not them self.

For someone to come up with this now, so many years later, and for an old program, seems very fishy to me.

I suggest you rather search up some threads about ?security holes?, ?back doors?, ?lost? master passwords to all programs using a certain affiliate back end and access to programs email lists instead. That should give you an idea on who is to be trusted, and who is not??

Not at all..

I'm a little teapot.

It's amazing people don't think they can be shaved. Every program controls their own postback. So there's you shave point. The fact mansion put in the module was dumb, it was never needed. But people are still shaving whatever joins they want.

Funny when someone asks something about mpa or says something bad about them they always say it's a conspiracy against them to hurt their company. And I think they really believe it is, even though it's obviously not.


Anyway, this was 10 years ago. I think a lot of programs were shaving back then and some have been caught. I think it was pretty common back then. Executive Stats also had a shave feature build in.

These days programs could still shave if they wanted, even on Nats. Maybe not with the software directly, but if the program wants to shave they can still do it, no matter what affiliate software they use.

The real question is how can you trust any of them.. MPA had their built in "shave" option & Nats was created by the guy that fucked many of us with his redirecting free stats counter.

garry I honestly don't have a personal vendetta against you but you might want to rethink censoring people who bring up your mistakes or otherwise calling them trolls or parts of a conspiracy. That seldom wins you their goodwill.

The original "apology" and explanation you linked to in the other thread was bullshit in my opinion. That's why the matter didn't end there.

http://business.avn.com/articles/vid...ies-45009.html

I still think you should consider asking AVN to restore the censored topic and all posts in full. That would be the honest and classy thing to do at this point.