:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

wow man you are fucking wonderful - just ask you!

thanks for dropping in to tell us how fuckin rich you are again faggot

The war cost is still hanging around because we are still there and still spending money. Bush kept it off the books for his entire presidency, but since it is ongoing Obama has added it back on in each of the last four years and it will be there next year and every year until we are out of Afghanistan.

His budgets haven't passed, but there are parts of them that still stand. Money we have already spent or that is spent by law like Social Security etc stands, it is all the extra cuts or spending that he wants to make that don't get passed so in the end he will have a final budget, but all of it may not end up actually getting enacted. A good example of this is Bush's No Child Left Behind. The cost of it was on his budget, but most of it never got funded so the money was actually never spent.

And when there are bright, hard working, energetic, law abiding citizens of this country who become displaced by shifts in the economy, or personal tragedies from poor health, or a simple lack of aptitude... What should we do with them? We used to kill them with war or let them die from plagues. Those options are pretty much done. We will have a large and growing segment of the population comprised of 'extra people' who society does not need. Old people, disabled people, dim people, unlucky people.... And they aren't going to go away. In fact they will eventually be the majority. Automation, technology and cost will always combine to discard more people. Any dip in the overall economy and even more people get discarded.

The simple cost of caring for parents who now live twenty or thirty years beyond what they used to Is crushing for many hard working citizens. As populations grow older and ninety becomes a normal lifespan, most people are having one or two offspring at most and tech continues to reduces the number of people needed. We will have a massive population of extra people. Taking care of the less fortunate and providing a safe, sanitary somewhat comfortable life for them is the responsibility of our society. That means basic healthcare, food, education...not ferraris.

It is a strategic error to talk in terms of screwing the lazy good for nothing 47%... We ought to be talking about finding some way to put the extra people to use and actualising their full potential without denigrating the fact that their potential is less than someone else. Getting the most out of our extra people will go a long way toward fixing this country, and being respectful of them rather than disdainful will come in handy when they become the well armed majority that they almost are already.

his new mercedes has a 600 page manual you know!

Maybe if you didn't have 15k posts you might have some money, and not work at Walmart.

You worked for adult.com, quit or were fired, then worked for Lightspeed I believe, then bunny ranch, then lightspeed I think a 2nd time? now whatever you do.

Basically you are a grunt right?

Agree 100%. Stop big businesses outsourcing to the third world, 10% import tax on non essential goods like food and oil. Take more from the rich, put it into projects with jobs suitable for the poor and problem solved.

Your cost of living goes up, but you solved the problem and in time it will bring down the deficit.

And do what with the money?




A big part of Government spending is employing people, 97% of cuts will result in lost jobs.

And here you see where some of it went. Minte can you tell us where the waste is exactly. What do you produce?

Good thinking. Exempt basic goods, foods and add it to sales tax like how VAT works in Europe. Slap 10% on top of gas guzzling cars, yachts, exec jets, designer clothes. etc.

The problem with you guys is you see all the Government does as free without realising it has to be paid for. So what if a few less of you can fly down to Cancoun and spend your money or buy a Merc. And a few people lose their jobs.

I'll bet some of you still think the "Trickle Down" effects works.

http://www.lolbrary.com/content/990/...own--19990.jpg

Paul, you are supposed to be here: https://gfy.com/forumdisplay.php?f=54

If you stop the spending. You take food off peoples tables. Some of them your customers. You're thinking is short term. Do you want tax cuts that put your members out of work and stop them buying from your site?

Yes they did. The problem was Bush's level of maths stopped at how much him and his mates earn.

Only 400. Mitt will raise that number. It will mean many more having less, but he doesn't care.

Because it's not in their favour enough already. :upsidedow

Stop coming up with logic. Some idiot will point out countries around the world with Governments who over spent, now forced to cut spending and got massive unemployment. Americans never look across State Lines unless they're off invading somewhere.

And they argue it's not low enough. :1orglaugh

Don't fucking ASK them. Let them know the tax code MUST CHANGE.

http://www.fishink.us/wp-content/upl...f-tax-cuts.jpg

They're in China.

His theory falls down right at the beginning. Giving the middle class more money to spend would result in more American jobs in the 1950s. Today it will result in more jobs in China.

The world is a far smaller place than it was when I left school and got a job. UK produced loads of goods it sold to the rest of the world. America's rise was based on selling arms in two World Wars. And carried on looking inward for sales of produced goods. We rarely saw an American car in Europe, same goes for many other things. Look at the American products we do see all the time and where America leads. Boeing, Microsoft, Apple and others.

This shows you the way forward. Giving the money to middle class to buy Nike shoes made in an Indian factory or a BMW. Isn't going to boost jobs in the US. Giving the poor money to spend in Ralphs, Wal-Mart, Costco, Safeways will. Trickle up works when people spend the money in their home town far better than trickle down when they spend it in Neiman Marcus.

So you don't have to answer questions based on the truth?

Man up and face it, you don't have an answer.

Real life example of tax cuts for the middle class.

Yesterday I received a check from the UK Tax Office, it was a refund on some of the tax I over paid on my pensions. $400 so no big deal, yet if it was 5% of my taxes or $8,000 a year it would be a whopping hole in the UK tax revenue if applied to everyone on an income that brings taxes up to that level.

$400 tax, yes someone earning $32,000 a year. Would get $400 back a year with a 5% tax cut, which would mean a lot of people losing jobs or more borrowing/debt for the UK.

Now what will I do with my whopping sum of $400? I might buy a new Nokia phone or some more clothes. If every one does the same, the shops might need to employ an extra shop keeper, the ports might have to employ a few more people, but it's so automated the odds are they won't. Truth is the extra spending will be balanced by those who lost their jobs and have no money to spend.

Nokia in the Far East might take on more workers and build more factories. Unlikely because one sale gained is one sale lost.

On the off chance they buy an iPhone, again it will be made in China. Someone who lost a job will not be buying a new iPhone.

So where does this extra spending produce extra jobs or wealth?

This whole philosophy is based back in the 50s and 60s, when Chinese people were starving to death. I dream magazines will come back, you dream of these times coming back.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZDTxPzd57I...0/12280296.jpg

The fat cats have brained washed you.

at the end of the day raising taxes in so called rich (250k a year isn't rich) even raising taxes on the ultra rich, while it would have more effect still won't solve the problem and making poor people and anyone who doesn't pay income taxes because they don't make enough pay taxes definitely won't help at all since the amount wouldn't add up to much. the idea that if taxes are raised in the higher income brackets, businesses won't hire might be true for smaller to medium businesses but for the huge powerhouses, it makes no difference as there is no need to hire any more people than is needed to create their product or do whatever they need to do.

the problem is government is broken and only works to serve those who fill their pockets via lobbyists, donations and other back room deals. unless you are super rich, you aren't even on their radar of caring. they make sure who gets what contracts and ensures the war machine continues on at huge profits for the companies who supply them. not to mention the financial sector who seems to have a government license to risk it all and when it blows up in their faces, use taxpayer money to make up their losses. until this changes, debt will continue to increase.

The product we sell to Vietnam is not exclusive to them, We have been selling the product all over the world for many years.
The product line is by-pass oil filtration systems. They are fabricated steel oil tanks that run in conjuction with a normal spin-on filter. They do a far superior job of filtering oil. On cars and trucks the oil lasts much longer. Most fleets that use them only have to add oil and change the filter element everfy 25,000 miles. In Vietnam they are used primarily on the fleets of fishing and navy boats and ships.

I am at the office now and just looked. The tank department has 23 people. The tanks are made from US steel,(jobs) We buy welding gases and wire(jobs) to make the tanks. We buy filter elements(jobs hose and fittings(jobs) cardboard packing(jobs). We send them to a local powder coat(shipping jobs) who paint them(jobs). They come back to us after paint and are assembled. From there they are packed in a shipping container(jobs) and trucked to Long Beach(jobs) where longshoreman(jobs) load them on to a ship.

How many jobs do you suspect are created from that one product? But there is more. There are administrative jobs that purchase the materials,schedule
the trucks,expedite the manufacturing,there is insurance documents and finally wire transfers.

This one product line ultimately creates jobs for hundreds of people if not thousands.

I stand corrected.

Coprolalia is involuntary swearing or the involuntary utterance of obscene words or socially inappropriate and derogatory remarks. Coprolalia comes from the Greek κόπρος (kopros) meaning "feces" and λαλιά (lalia) from lalein, "to talk".[1] The term is often used as a clinomorphism, with 'compulsive profanity' inaccurately referred to as being Tourette syndrome.

Ben, you have been in adult for a long time. If you are so impressed about a Mercedes, it might be time to consider another line of work. There are plenty of webmasters here that own nicer cars than I do.

There are much smarter people than us who have wrestled with this question for decades. And to date there is no solution.

It's going to be very tough for a lot of people. The only thing the human race has going for it is that it is resilient. I wonder how people survive in places like the Sahara or the jungles of south america. Yet they do. And for many the future probably will boil down to basic survival.

I am Canadian so feel free to skip this post right off the bat, since apparently being Canadian means I am automatically retarded around here.

I don't agree with raising taxes on the rich. I don't understand the disrespect towards the successful people that is happening in your country right now. For some reason you guys have turned the successful into blood thirsty animals raping the country when in fact most of them are the reason you or your family even have an job / income. I guess this technique makes it easier for you to place the responsibility on them to save the country. They build a business from scratch, from working their asses off, employ many people which stimulates more consumer spending in their local areas and possibly other places such as Minte's business. They pay more taxes in one year than most of us will pay in 100. You guys should be promoting small business & entrepreneurship right now more than anytime in your history. I have to agree with Minte & 12clicks (Some self ego comments about their wealth was shallow & could have been done without), I don't think raising taxes would help, the politicians would just find other ways to waste this newly taxed cash on payouts for their buddies instead of paying down your debt. Spending needs to be cut on wars & used to promote healthy business in your country. Start teaching the youth small business / entrepreneurship classes in high schools, money management, etc...

When "raising" taxes means returning to pre-Bush era tax rates when everyone prospered more and better. Well.. why should I have to continue the question. The end.

And companies like yours, THAT ARE BASED IN THE US, are the only way the US will get out of the hole it dug for itself.

Cutting Government spending will not. Because;

Cut spending = losing jobs = less spending.

Cutting taxes = more money in some people's pockets = more spending on imported items.

Cutting spending x cutting taxes = standing still or losing US jobs and increasing non US jobs. Because the odds of Robbie buying one of your filters is 1-1,000,000,000,000 And the odds on him buying a Nokia phone are evens.

But it does make the very rich richer. :Oh crap

You seem to be totally unaware that economies run in cycles regardless of who is in office. Maybe we cause another .com boom where retards run wild and where spending on online advertising alone was on pace to pass the GDP of the nation within a couple years and where investors are investing in .com startups that have no product or business plan again? Maybe we start allowing IPO's for tech companies that have no business plan, much less a product again? Any ideas on how to do that? Or you think it was just about "tax rates"?

The end.

daer idiot, you'd have a point if you wanted to get rid of ALL the Bush tax cuts and not just the ones benefitting your betters.

Sorry for the math being off. I agree but how do you do that?
You let the army go ? Where do all those people find work?
What do you do about companies that pay people close to nothing so they need gov benefits but work full time(aka walmart)? And let them get another job is not the answer in lots of places.
Where do you cut?
Also FYI riots in the streets wont be people like us.We have shit to lose. It will be the people that didnt have shit and we cut more from them.
Also raising taxes wont fix it alone. You got to cut and raise rev.
But this is the bullshit the gop do to get the base all fired up and it worked. Read the two Santa Claus theory
During Bush they had wars unfunded, a medicare drug program unfunded and that was fine. Ryan the numbers guy voted for it and any spending bush wanted.
If Romney wins and has the house and senate. Let me tell you how it will go. They will say omg its worse than we thought we have to save the economy and they will start spending at a level you have never seen. And you will support it because all of a sudden it makes sense now. They will also lower taxes on the rich and kiss the mortgage deduction goodbye. They will also cut some programs that stick it to the middle and low class.They will also blame obama all 4 yrs and you will be ok with that.

I figured this was over your idiot head to understand

People in the Sahara have to 'survive' because there is a fundamental lack of resources. We do not have that problem by any stretch of the imagination. We can produce more food than we need, more energy than we need, more shelter and clothing than we need... And we can do it with less than half our population working to accomplish those goals. Back in the days of the world fair, or when things like the electric dishwasher were invented there was a lot of talk about a future where people lived a somewhat comfortable life without having to work as hard as they did at that time. One person today can produce what 10 or 20 did a decade ago... what 100 did a century ago.

We use cell phones, email, video calling, shared software, free youtube instructional videos that answer most questions and an omnipresent database that answers almost any other. The average person has more information in their pocket today than all of civilization could access only a century ago, and it is available nearly instantaneously. However, instead of raising our standard of living and shortening our work week to three or four days, we have extended the work week of our best 10% to 6 or 7 days while gutting the pay of everyone else. The result is most households have both parents working instead of one, their kids are poorly raised by a combination of nannies and cheap daycare that warehouses them before they go to substandard public school.

The shift in our population, natural acceleration of technology which builds upon itself and surplus we create will require us to rethink the role of half our population. Are we better off paying two people half as much, or paying one enough so that the other can stay home and raise their children properly? Did unions have it right that one guy working 30 hours of overtime is worse overall than two people having a job and doing it adequately? Should we spend 50K per person per year or more to incarcerate a huge and growing part of our population, or make changes that cost less which make life easier on poor people even though they 'didn't work as hard for it'?

Income tax by itself is not the answer, we agree. Nationalism and patriotism have an important role to play. Giving the less able a leg up actually turns out to be cheaper, safer and smarter than making sure they only get what they earn. Currently we destroy food to stabilize price while people starve. Your arguments on income tax are about fairness. Fairness goes beyond a percentage revenue based understanding of our society.

We are doing it wrong. We can do better.

It's a simple fact of economics Paul, you can't go on forever spending more than you make.

Government spending has been out of control for a decade. Along with out of control spending we have out of control waste. Everything that the federal government does it wastes money on. And not small amounts of it.

As far as what to do with all that money...Have you been to the US lately. The bridges,hiways,sewers,dams, fresh water systems are all in major need of repair and replacement.

You mean the exact time frame of the internet bubble that crashed when Bush came to office? Don't get me wrong, I hate Bush. Clinton is brilliant but he had a little help.

Cutting / Raising taxes DOES NOT CREATE WEALTH. Give your kid $10 and tax him 10% or 90% a week, either way he will still waste it on candy unless he was taught to use it to create more wealth. Americans with day jobs are like kids, they will waste it on "candy" instead of using it to start a business and create more jobs. There are the rare exceptions.

#1 the middle class is just fine. look at all of the middle and lower middle class in this thread posting away during working hours on their computers.
#2 this lie of the war not being on the books is horse shit for the uneducated to swallow. On the books or off, the money was spent and it added to the deficit. obama increased the deficit well over and above anything bush did. it doesn't matter if its in the budget, or supplemental spending, it still is counted in the debt number.

holy christ, the unintelligence is astounding some days.

I don't disagree that we can do better. Only the future will tell if we WILL do better. There are a lot of events in our history that suggests we won't.

Part of our downfall will be people ignoring the big picture while quibbling over 3-5% of something affecting 5% of the population. Citizens United is a much bigger problem than either leaving taxes as they are or raising them by a few points. Wasting a fortune on emergency room care instead of providing efficient single payer care to all costs us much more than income tax revenue would bring back. Not means testing social security at this point will deplete the system for those who actually need it at a much faster rate. We are constantly distracted by trumped up bogus issues like gay marriage, a few points of income tax and the like while a handful of oligarchs are gutting our economy.

It isn't welfare queens, gay people, guys making 250K or <insert race here> who are ruining our country. It is a handful of asshats so high up the totem pole that few outside their circle ever meet them... and they couldn't care less if we all lived in manure pits so long as we keep producing so they can continue tilting the whole thing in their direction to scrape massive profits off the top. Watching you vehemently complain about a few points of income tax is no different than watching gay people focus passionately on issues like don't ask don't tell or gay marriage. Yes, they affect us.... but not as much as the massive problems we face which almost nobody even bothers to discuss. We need to look beyond our own bedrooms and balance sheets at what is really going on and work at fixing the major issues. Until they get resolved we are pissing in a fan. If your taxes get cut 5% and the dollar gets devalued 15% your income tax rate is not your biggest problem.

Citizens united, publicly funded elections, preventing media consolidation, obliterating the entire tax code to make a better one rather than poorly patching this one, ending unnecessary wars, reducing obsolete military funding.... Your passion would serve you better if it helped fixed these issues.

Nope. Seems a good chunk of this money came from stimulus money... Freeway opens up a week from today.

I just assumed you had started at the bottom and worked your way up. Just like my step father, who worked for General Electric for years and then opened up his own shop. That's the American dream.

But you didn't accomplish this on your own now did you? Someone taught you how to run the punch press, right? Somewhere along the line none of this would have been possible without a bank loan, right? How many people have worked for you since you opened up? Ten? Fifty? Two hundred? And the sweat and tears they put into YOUR business, all of the bullshit they put up with... Nah, you did it all by yourself.

Just state that you will support anyone who promises not to raise your personal income tax burden and be done with it.

Sure, lets tax those who make more money to pay for the 47% who don't pay anything at all. Seems legit.

"to pay for the 47& who don't pay anything at all"..

oy

Someone taught you how to type, what a fucking mistake that was.

You have such shitty views, you and Paul should talk.

Sure it's going to help.

Taxes are going to be raised one way or another. Should we raise the taxes on the middle class, with the average family bringing in $55k a year?

And you need to define wasteful spending too. I've mentioned this freeway bypass over and over again; It's a big thing in my hometown. In short a small freeway runs smack through Main Street USA, slowing the freeway down to a stop and causing gridlock in my little hometown. They made a thirteen mile bypass so this freeway goes around the city. It costs some $350 million, some of which came from federal stimulus money. Is this a waste?

Seems to me like over a thousand people worked full time on this project for the past seven years. That's a lot of jobs, and all of these people spent their money locally. The construction workers spent their paychecks in our restaurants and gas stations. The local concrete companies were fucking giddy because they had to double their staffs to handle the work. $350 million wasn't wasted; It was injected right back into our economy. Steel was brought in from PA on the East Coast, shipped all the way to California outside of San Fran, where another company assembled parts and pieces for the seventeen bridges, and then trucking companies were used to haul those parts out to the construction site.

Normally I am against pork barrel spending, but in this case when I see how my community benefitted from it... I'm okay with it. I have lots of friends who have jobs today because of this project. Jobs are scared, and this massive projected helped out companies around the country. This is exactly what the stimulus was supposed to do.

But one person does not make a business. Minte didn't train himself without having teachers, and I'm most positive he had bank loans to get started and then to expand. He didn't do it on his own - he had plenty of help.

Your right. Let's raise your taxes. I'm too busy to be bothered with it. My company car needs to go back into the shop to have a new bumper put on. I'm sure I can write that off too.

With this logic I suppose I owe Moses a paycheck for guiding me early in life and the second grade teacher who inspired me to enjoy mathematics.

In all seriousness. A company of any size is a group of people. I have never thought anything else. The difference is in the importance of each person in their respective jobs.
At the end of the day,when a recession hits it's not the janitor that has to figure out how to cover a 6 figure weekly payroll. It's not the shipping clerk that goes out and signs the loans, taking all the risks. The big difference is that anyone employed here could leave tomorrow and start a new job. The owner, has everything at stake. It's a difficult concept to describe to people that haven't done it.And often,it's a major league burden to maintain.

No sane person would suggest a business owner is anything less than the single most important part of any business. It's a false argument that doesn't exist... Nobody sane suggests business owners should get anything less than the 'lion's share' of the profits a business earns. Exotic cars, private jets, private islands... nobody minds any of that. Larry Ellison just bought the entire Hawaiian island of Lanai - good for him!

Now, when a 'business owner' at a major bank engages in fraud detrimental to the whole economy, or when BP cuts corners on safety to squeeze extra cash out of an oil well... or when a factory has people working in unsafe conditions... or when the people are being tacitly required to work more and more for less and less - that becomes a problem that needs to be solved.

So, Minte, applying your own reasoning. Who do you think is best apt to solve the problem? The janitor who can't figure out how to make payroll or the business owner who can? Unfortunately most business owners are so stuck on their own balance sheet that they fail to see what is going on beyond it... and most workers are so stuck on making their next mortgage payment that they aren't going to do anything about it.

In generations past, PATRIOTS fixed our problems. That is what we need now. People working together to come up with solutions and pushing to have them enacted, rather than quibbling over 3% income tax.

We have a large incapable segment of society relying on the more capable people around them. That is NOT new. It has always been that way. What has changed is that the more capable people used to take that as a source of pride, to be stewards of our society and statesmen who pushed the entire nation forward. These days they feel no such obligation. It's why you see so few people doing what Hershey or Carnegie did with their wealth. Gates is an exception who has done a lot, Buffet is contributing quite a bit. Hell, even Mark Cuban is at least trying to address some of the issues facing our nation.... but for every person like them there are 10 who couldn't care less what happens to the United States at this point.

The dim witted poor are nothing new. The affluent asshats who think wealth is an entitlement (usually because they did not earn it themselves, it was passed down to them) are a much bigger problem.

In the 1940s people didn't buy war bonds to get a higher yield on their money :2 cents:

LOL... I kid you not - I took a typing class in high school.

I find this to be a stellar article.

"When the economy is understood in 21st-century terms, as an ecosystem, it becomes obvious that jobs don't squirt out of business-people like jelly from doughnuts. Rather, jobs are the consequence of the feedback loop between customers and businesses. For this reason, it is middle-class consumers and the demand they create that are our true job creators, not rich business-people."

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...eators/262833/