I agree with that 100%

My point that you originally jumped on was that I, as an affiliate, can no longer make "impulse buy" sales in the current climate to other sites.

I work hard on claudiamarie.com to make sure it does have that value for it's members. Part of that is by doing everything I can to keep the piracy of the site down to a minimum roar. The other part is just creating videos and pictures and scenarios that I feel absolutely NAIL what big tit fans want to see. My instincts (as always) have been right on the money.

Not that it matters but to be clear: at first you were impolite and only then I called you a liar, not the other way around.

And yes I am clueless. You are 1 miracle case that is having same ratios as you had 5 years ago.

Not quite at that ratio but pretty close, just need more affiliates with traffic :thumbsup

Good question, I think because CCBILL has the best affiliate program, so I can let others promote my unique perfect converting site too...

I also asked EPOCH, they could set me up, but I need to register a UK Limited company that gives me an address in UK to join EPOCH, however to use their affiliate program, I will need to get NATS and set all up..

First, how on Earth is a kid that can't buy porn in 1997 different than one that can't buy porn in 2012? They still are all going to go looking for free, free, free... and when they get old enough to afford the luxury of higher quality for a price, then I assure you - we live in a material world after all - and they will be educated by this society and culture to buy, buy, buy and quality is worth paying a price for.

There are ways to prevent member areas from being pirated. There are ways to go after pirates. Just like existed ten years ago.

I see you making broad claims about surfer behavior, types of buyers, etc., but I can honestly say, from personal experience of "the good ol' days", that a lot of those assertions about non-buyers were pure conjecture back then and not actually based on anything but supposition, not real data. Unless you can show me proof, I think some of the things you are claiming are urban myth.

Prime example, we have free content on tubes as you know, full channels even, but why does our Google type in traffic still convert just like the good ol' days? Why is our retention still amazing - just like you pointed out about Claudia too?

I disagree about them having the best affiliate program. It is the one that a lot of people use, I will give you that, but I have seen enough complaints about them over the years to know that many people think CCbill is not up to par with other options currently available.

You are simply going to be paying higher rates and making less money because of it imho. Good luck though with whatever you choose but my advice is don't follow the herd or you run the risk of running off the cliff when lightning strikes and everyone stampedes one way or another.:2 cents:

You don`t need nats to use epoch`s affiliateprogram:)

Is VENDO better than ccbill, epoch and zombaio?

First...the teenage boys are still the same, BUT they aren't being taught to buy porn. They are being taught that it is now ALL free. If you don't understand that, then you need to come down out of that mansion up on the hill and mingle with some common folk. :)

Second...I don't make "broad claims", I make money off of my experience and knowledge of how to entertain people.
What I did with a TGP was give them some good entertainment...but always had them standing just outside the velvet rope wondering what was actually inside that members area. It's different now with full members areas now given away.

I really have no idea why you are trying to argue with me. If you honestly believe that everything is great in our business, then more power to you.

I now run a tube site (like everybody else) for my affiliate work. . I've only sent a couple thousand hits all year to HomeGrown so I have zero sales this year with you.
But I'd love to try to send some traffic (what little I have left) and see for myself if your sites can be profitable for an affiliate or not.

I'll put up some of your promo clips and see if anything happens. I'd be a very happy camper if it makes sales and you'll find me on here singing your praises (though in all honesty, I already have much more respect for you than you apparently do for me)

No need to get defensive. I just know you have a different opinion and I am trying to get a conversation going that people can see both sides. I am definitely not trying to prove you WRONG. I just know we have different experience and both of us have opinions based on realities that are similar but not the same.

I may not agree with you but I don't doubt your veracity which is why the discussion could be useful for others here.

I will be happy to take a look and see if we can recommend anything on your traffic. Many thanks btw for the support but let me show you what we can do otherwise we have just wasted your time and traffic.

What is your tube?

Hey guys, this topic is very interesting for me because i love to analyse and discuss numbers

Btw I encourage everyone with traffic to try the links and propositions made in this topic and see how it convert for you... every traffic will react differently, so good luck to find your best matches !!!

For those who dont know me, I am the chief Analytics officer at Crakmedia, and i analyse all our media buy and natural traffic wich represent over 10 billions of ads impression per month and more than 10 millions of hits per day on our LP, and this on few hundreds different monthly sources.

So I dont want to ruin the party here, and i dont want to say that people are misguiding on purpose , im interested to discuss numbers and i think we need to add some precisions about ratios and the info here, and warn some affiliates that does media buy before they jump too fast.

Thrust me I know we can make what we want with numbers , you can make them look very good or very bad depending on what are you focusing in.

A 1:500 ratio is possible yes, a 1:100 ratio too, I even i have also some PPL affiliates with 1:2 ratio


So ya everything is possible BUT and its a huge BUT , normally you need various parameters to achieve that, and it willl not be done on a classic media buy (ill explain further) Im very interested to knows what kind of traffic is use to make all theses amazing under 1: 500 ratios !!

For me a Good ratio (1 : 500) could be done most of the times only if you have some of theses conditions

• Contextual/targeted ads,
• On a specific and good geo/country (only T1 )
• From natural/SEO traffic
• From member zone area
• From a high quality source
• From High CPC/CPM campaign
• With a small volume
• With some daily cap
• With Type In traffic
• From a blog, or site that have returning members that will follow what the owner will post
• On certain hours/days
• From a niches that fit the source well
• With some retargetting
• On some device like ipad, or mobile
• On redirection , with 1 or 2 click to pay on a phone bill

Etc etc Etc

I dont think you can easily do 1 : 500 on a classic media buy, what i meant by that will be this:

• - Lets say you buy some traffic on the most popular ad net network (TJ, EXO, ERO, JUICY etc)
• - You buy traffic from a popular general tube site (like PHub, Xham, RedT, Yjizz)
• - You buy a big % of a flat spot deal, non contextual,for 30 consecutive days
• - You buy the most common spot a 300 x 250 next to video player A/B
• - The traffic is regular WEB
• - The traffic has all geos with a normal breakdown, and lets says around 33% For every tier 1-2-3
• - The spot has decent volume, lets say cost 10 000$ at a .16$ CPM (2m imp./day)
• - You have a decent banners rotation with a CTR around .05%-1% for 10-20k / Clicks per day

About the sign up ratio, so lets go this way :

• A 1 : 500 ratio
• Made from A PPS of 30$
• With regular uniques hits count from a LP
• With 100% of the spot traffic
• For 30 consecutive days
• With ALL those previous parameters ,

Well, if someone pretend he can fill all those conditions which are the "classic media buy", hum i will be VERY interested to test it !!

I dont say its impossible at all, because on some occasion it happens to us, but in general and over 300 hundreds of the best industry brands we tested ( on few hundred of different sources) a 1 : 500 ratios is EXCEPTIONAL (again on non geo/contextual regular tube spot traffic)

And if you really do, well its a great news, CONTACT ME !!!
Because We can make you few thousands of signs up per day :)

I don't even know who to reply to. I agree with quite a few people and post and some I wish I knew where they got their info.
Franck gotta love it when people will not promote your site unless you make it look like all the others they are use to seeing lol.
AC has a nice post and VB have you not tried just working with someone that already has what you need. Cutting out all the cost and time and starting up right away? Show them what you can do and take a %

I keep telling you guys we need to talk.

You may have tested everyone else but you didn't test us.

Thanks for adding to the discussion btw. With oversight of that much traffic tested on that many sites I think you pretty much carry the conch at will on this subject.

The success of traffic from banners on tubes depends hugely on the zone as well of course too but I know you already know that.

Even the big boys are suffering when it comes to conversion ratios. This economy has hurt all companies no matter how big or small.

I have very targeted porn star traffic that 80% on average comes from search engines. My sales ratios at Vivid Cash have been as low as 1:18 and average less than 1:150 for years. Today I noticed my sales are converting at 1:998!

Yep- had the same sort of thing for the last week.
My http://splatbukkake.com has been consistently under 1:500 with my own targeted promo network, but this last weeks been wll over that. :disgust

As a hobbyist, I only promote a few models and programs. I also have limited & targeted online traffic. MisterPeabody, I obviously don't own these programs but I do like to support people & companies that work hard. Here is my very short list of 1: 500 or better.

1. Claudia Marie : Great content. It's fun, kinky and quality. Somehow, even with the quality they still convey that they are "amateur". Customers believe they can connect with Claudia. I have been watching these guys for a while now & they are some of the hardest working people in the business. I.e. they care about their product & it shows.


2. Naughty America ( My Friends Hot Mom, Seduced by a Cougar ) : Naughty America just knows how to capture the fantasies many had in high school / college. Science will tell you that those fantasies, because of "teen" hormones become imprinted differently. Later, these memories / fantasies can be triggered by sight, smell, sounds, colors etc. Whether by design or luck, NA portrays these adolescent fantasies perfectly and then triggers them through their content & trailers.


3. Tonights Girlfriend: The content simply captures the fantasy perfectly. If I were to have a PSE, I would want it to look like / go down like what I see on Tonight's Girlfriend.


4. Kelly Madison: Howard Stern once stated that he "discovered that lesbians equaled ratings" I would propose that threesomes do too. What married guy wouldn't envy Kelly's husband? Their content is absolutely professional however you still know that this is a real married couple. If I were going to try and talk my significant other into a threesome, I might use PornFidelity as a motivator.


5. Brandi Love: Brandi is quite simply one of the most intriguing people I have ever met. Her content is truly amateur the concept behind the site is not. Sometimes, entertainers whether they are in adult or "mainstream" have "It Factor". Brandi has "it", she works her ass off, is smart and is extremely approachable. Met Brandi in Las Vegas a couple weeks ago, she actually let me see her stats inside Epoch, run reports etc. She has pitifully low traffic volumes but conversions from her top 20 affiliates were all better than 1: 300.

All of our sites convert at around 1:5-600, but www.paigeturnah.com is around 1:150-200, with solo pornstar big butt it converts even better. Give her a try!

All my sites at Fabulous Cash convert below 1:500. :thumbsup

http://sexvideosex.eu/images/statsb.png

signup

This is basically the only thing that matters imo :thumbsup

100 sales at 1:500!!!

You want STATS but you want no qualitative data?
Numbers without meaning are meaningless....

I mean really I can screen cap accounts that do less than 1:10

As for programs showing you ratios, think about it.. what's the ratio on a cross sale??
1:0

If they have rouge mailers what's the ratio on that?
google ad buys ??? ratios should be low...
niche sites with niche traffic ratios vs. general sites with general traffic...
1 webmaster sending blind traffic can kill over all ratios.
Direct to tour P1 vs P2 vs perjoin vs direct to join

How much traffic are we talking about and how many joins?

I mean a company doing 1:100
doing 10 sales a day
buying 4 cross sales 1:0
and getting 3 sales a day from a highly niched google ad buy 1:50
and getting 1 sale a day from a mailer doing 1:150
and getting 1 sale a day from a members area 1 click 1:200

is really doing 1:680

Axel great post, I'm sure you could teach us a ton!

PAR you're so right, a site doing 1:500 with no trial might convert at 1:200 with a $1 trial, and then how does that site rebill? Are there xsells etc. etc.

I just did payouts and I noticed an affiliate getting a decent size payout ($515) via paxum and didn't recall his affiliate ID. I looked into his account because I figured it was fraud or a glitch in the matrix and saw no traffic all year except there was 1 rebill each month. Long story short he sent 1 sale almost 3 years ago, he sent a total of 3500ish hits, I guess 1:3500 was shit and he stopped promoting... turns out the ratio is meaningless when he's made over $500 and counting off that one join.

If only all members stuck around that long!

Some great posts in this thread!

I do agree some parameters need to be set when discussing "ratios". Many factors exist (as has been pointed out here by more knowledgeable and seasoned minds than mine).

But my feeling is that while many factors do indeed exist for traffic/ratios, a webmaster or program who's been around for awhile will have "whittled down" what works for them and what doesn't. So, in the end, whatever sources they've stuck with, does it end up being 1:500 or better?

I ask this also because what if ratios are really 1:1000 or higher? How high can ratios go (or how far can they dip) before a program or affiliate says "fuck it" and moves on to selling shoes?


www.ersoextoica.com and about six others in my network regularly convert at 1:500 or better, with both tube traffic and banner buys. We should talk. :)



You're already an affiliate of PeabodyCash Robbie! You should be adding our tube clips ASAP to make $. My tours and banners are specifically designed for tube traffic so let's discuss. :)

If traffic is converting at 1:20,000 a site 60,000 hits a day
that is static or auto update, cost $100 a year in its % of the hosting + domain name cost
making you a PPS of $35 ($115 a day)

Some would leave it as is and focus on projects sites that are a higher cost to run/manage.
And maybe come back to it later.
Depends on the Cost to leave it as is vs the cost to change it.

Also depends on the site
auto rss fee blogs using a ton of feed, tube sites with sponsored banner under the video, tgp,mgp,review sites and other traffic/sites that are not monetized mush past the premium ad spots would leave thinks up (some even to dead programs).

As for programs many have sites that convert at 1:100000000000000 *ok maybe not that bad.* But the sites are not their focus and they just stop putting time and money into them.

So really this only applies to sites that people are putting time and money into and to the ad spots that they think are worth putting energy into.

At that point its not so much a ratio thing but a ROI thing on the time and money you are putting in vs the money you get out of it. Ratios play a part but it is wrong to only look at a ratio if you are not looking at the long/short term $

Ok for conversion, but the rebillings stats?
Some sites got so high % of rebillings that the rebillings it is bigger money than new conversions - or vice-versa some sites hardly get any rebilling. This should be considered too.

For sake of the pissing contest have 2 currently under 1:500, ALL traffic.

LadyboyGold - 1:370
iLoveThaiPussy - 1:494


Last 30 Days / First page uniques / Full joins / No trials / Includes type-ins / Well over 1000 uniques a day. Even with those "great" ratios if those sites didn't rebill well they would not be profitable enough to continue.


Agree with those posted overall $$$ is the most important thing; not $$$ per click or an arbitrary ratio. Weighing how something REALLY sells and how sticky it is to your surfers. For example if you have something on your site that is clicked ALOT more than something else, but might not have the best ratio is better than something clicked less with a better ratios. The product that created more action, with more sales in that spot is what's making you more $$$. Then how well the site is at keeping customers (on revshare).


Without sounding like a dick general ratios are useless. Individual sites have too many variables within their own site types to compare. Without knowing the true quality of your traffic and your surfing customer base. A better ratio might mean that program just has their shit together with in-house traffic buys. They've been better at obtaining quality traffic like that from established review sites, mailing and members area traffic and direct keyword buys. They have a higher percentage of affiliates that are actual salesmen and know the product, and filter their traffic accordingly. Or a combination of any of those things which would skew ratios one way or another.


And all this assumes all programs count traffic the exact same way. Which is far from reality. Know your traffic; LOOK at the sites you sell. See the members areas. Know if it's a good product or not to present to your customers. If so, use your salesmanship to SELL it to your customers. Don't slap up a bunch of shit sites / content and hope something sticks. Sell better :)

Let's just end this whole thing right here...

I AM THE ULTIMATE BALLER!

The proof: I'm almost certain, that maybe, I might make more money than Paul Markham does. (maybe)

I WIN!!!!!!!!

.
Good i'm Glad my reply wasnt attack and even more happy that others share the same vision

My point was simple : ratios are just ratios, they dont mean nothing without explanation...

for sure on our best programs if I push Usa traffic to a niche that fit well the source, well yes i will be under 1 : 500



True, we did'nt yet and I will try to include that one day in upcoming tests..

Ill do something, ill test all people that tell me that I will do 1 : 500 and under with them But, I'ill post the results one day :) for the best and the worst !!!

One more thing, if someone is so sure, that he convert 1 :500 on a good T1 traffic, well if the payout is lets say 35$, well prepay me some sign up for 10 000 hits.. ill be fine with 30$ , keep the extra 5$ :winkwink:

Exactly no easy money


:thumbsup Congrats, What are you winning again ?

That exactly why i did a post in this topic,, and explain how i see ratio with a classic media buy, a ratio without any parameters means nothing at all

Thanks Kenny, i love numbers and stats , i dont have the chance to see that much chicks, so i need to find my numbers sexy :1orglaugh

Yes again, many factors will influence, i dont expect to do the same ratio with Usa than Pakistan, give me 1 : 3000 in Pakistan and ill be very happy.

If you buy the traffic, for sure cant be too lazy and patient with bad converting programs

Good point. The payout MATTERS. Many HIGH PPS offer tends to have bad ratio... nobody can give 200$ PPS is the sign up are too easy
But stillm a 200$ PPS with a 1 : 2000 ratio is better then a 30$ pps at 1 :500 (on the same source and equal CTR)

Good point again, and yes the CTR matters (and the epc, ecpm)

On a CPM campaign, i will try to get more click as possible ( but the still have to be relevant) because i dont want to burn traffic and want to maximise my impressions

And if i put have a high CTR banner vs a low ctr banner, i have good chance to do more money with the high one (not always tho) but the ratios will not look good has the low ctr... so ratios doesnt matters, its earning per impressions at the end

On a CPC campaign, i will try to have higher quality click, more relevant, and i will not use the same kind of banner as cpm campaign. If i put high CTR banner just to drag clicks but the LP is not similar to the banner, i will again burn traffic and again its the earning per clicks that does matter :)


PS : watch out, some sponsors count ratio differently, they count further in the conversions processus to make look them better, i will not tell names, do your homeworks and find a way to double check the stats on your side

when you say includes type ins are you counting type in hits or only type in sales?
because most nats programs do not count type in hits by default but they do count type in sales into overall ratios

Excellent sites, content and a great long term business strategy. Thanks for being a valued NETbilling merchant for so many years.

I did 1:188 with my own site yesterday. No tricks, no filtering of traffic. Just organic traffic.

Edit: And some (forced) traffic from low traffic blogs.

Right, type in sales with no traffic which makes the numbers look better. Which is why I added that detail to make it as transparent as possible. Most our traffic is from affiliates but those type ins each day make a difference in improving the appearance of stats (and the bottom line).

Also why mentioned earlier for people to not be hung up on ratios. Instead for them try and analyze what is really making the most overall money and creating surfer interest in their spots.

I agree. It depends on where your traffic comes from. tacamateurs.com gets over 100,000 uniques a day and is ranked by Alexa at around 38k but a good chunk of that will be TGP or even popup traffic which is crap.

Either way our affiliate programme does around $25k a month and well over half of that is through rebills

Hey Axel, I'll put my money where my mouth is and take you up on this offer. If you have truly targeted pregnant traffic let's give it a try on PregnantKristi.com and then with piss traffic on PissWhoreTraining.com :thumbsup

Hit me up on ICQ or Skype to hammer out the details

Averaging 1:220 on site in my signature. If you have granny/mature/milf traffic don't look any farther. Check out other MILF sites in their network.

Amazing how every program out there does 1:200 while every affiliate of those programs out there does about 1:2000.
Something must be wrong somewhere...

Well, why it takes me 300 lines of text and you only 1 lines to explain that ;)

StrugglingBabes.com

Oct: 1/341
Sept: 1/298
Aug: 1:325
Jul: 1:442
Jun: 1:402
May: 1:349
Apr: 1:295
March: 1:225
Feb: 1:695
Jan: 1:413

Only February sucked!

These are the average affiliate ratios (so the average of all affiliates... some do 1:1000, others do 1:26)... These ratios do not include the rebills...

Sorry... can`t make it any worse... the numbers are the numbers (epoch-stats)

added to my list :thumbsup