You keep saying the same thing. I will keep saying the say thing.

What about the 100's of millions of guns already out there?

I'm not sure if it is fair to compare Switzerland to the United States. That's sort of comparing New Jersey to Russia.

Then again, maybe we should be more like Switzerland - don't they have compulsory military service? We should do that here in the US - everyone who turns nineteen has six months of military training.... Just like they do in Switzerland!

Yeah, since there's already 100 million guns in circulation, it's too late to do a damn thing. Just like when we banned ozone depleting propellents from spray cans. It never happened because what about the 100's of millions of cans already in peoples homes and on store shelves? Like when there's poison found in food. There's just NOTHING that can be done about it. Nothing. So stop trying.

Very valid point.

Anyone who currently owns a firearm would have to get a gun permit. They would have to go through the standard police checks as they do now, as well as be cross referenced with local hospital / doctor records for mental illness issues.

I am disappointed this isn't in place already.

We should also be having a huge discussion about mental health issues and why they aren't being addressed also.

Ok, Mr Smart Guy..I've already said my position on guns. What's going to be your position when the next mass murder happens because the victims had no way to protect themselves?

Guns do not stop mass murders. Guns do not stop somebody from beaking into your house.

Just like guns did not stop farmers from being mudered over in former Rhodesia, All farmers owned both hand guns and rifles but it did not stop so many of them from being murdered.

My dad owned a gun and it did not stop us from being burgled 5 fucking times or my mom from being mugged.

Until you are put into a situation where somebody enters your house whether they are armed or not you have no idea how you will react or what the outcome will be, and more than likely they will kill you first no matter how many guns you own.

The USA or South Africa or Mexico will not get any better until they take guns away from people.

I lived in a gun culture for 18 years and I would never want to go back to living like that again.

I am glad we now live in a country where gun crime is very very low and I dont have to have bars on the windows or high security fences and gates.

Do yourself a favour go and live in SA and take all your guns with you and see how far it gets you if you ever get into trouble over there.

Well said, I look forward to their replies.

Idealism won't save the next group of children or shoppers or movie go'ers.

Its not idealsim its what happens when so many people own guns and life means nothing to a lot of people.

In the last few months we lived in SA, my dad got so paranoid he ended up sleeping with the gun under his pillow and almost shot the next doors neighbours maid. He fired at her in the dark and luckily he missed.

If thats how you want to live then so be it, but to me I would never want to live like that ever again.

I would say most people who own guns sleep better at night because of them, even if they never fire them.

That may well be but its a false sense of security. Out of the 5 times we got burgled 3 of them we were not at home thank god The other two we were and my dad did not even have a chance to get to his gun.

When my mum got mugged my dad had his gun on him and did not a have chance to take it out, it happend so fast.

And arming children and Christmas shoppers will not prevent madmen from shooting people in public places.

Might not of stopped them from coming in my home, but I know they would not of left on their own 2 feet.

or you wouldn't. the more guns there are in a society the higher the chances a criminal will have one. less guns = less illegal guns = less criminals that have them. all illegal guns start out as legal guns at one point.

people who have a gun under their pillow or their bed are afraid someone if going to enter their house UN-invited.
dont tell me for one second this person sleeps better than someone who feels safe in their home and neighborhood.

No, it is idealism. You think that the world would be a better place without weapons. And I do agree with that. The realism is, the world is not a nice place and it has weapons. Many millions of them.

After the next mass shooting occurs we can discuss it again. Do you think those victims would rather have you there with your idealism of how the world could be a better place or someone who knows how to use a weapon. Keeping in mind, those victims have a ZERO chance to start with.

Rochard, no one is talking about arming children. We are talking about guards or a few select teachers that do take basic firearm training.

isn't it idealism that is attempting to just that?

Yeah but it is TO LATE!

Didn't the UK ban guns in 1997?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...89-decade.html

Here's a mini 14, it's not considered an assault style weapon
http://images.rockwellarms.com/Produ...Ruger/5816.jpg

yet shoots the same ammo and can use the same size magazines. a little education

I don't think there are many people really sleeping with them under their pillow. In a nightstand drawer, sure.

In fact, they did... So let's look at the stats shall we?

From your article...

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .

That's it?

In the UK you have 51 gun deaths in in 2007, compared to thirty thousand on average in the US?

In the UK, only 6% of homicides involve firearms. In the US, it's 60%.

Yes, gun violence has increased over a two year period which not surprisingly took place during a world wide recession, yet even during this increase gun violence is still a lot less than in the US.

I'm curious to know what you think would stop a bad guy with a gun?

Not considered an assault rifle yet oddly enough looks a lot like the M1 carbine, which is what the US used to fight WWII.

Yep let's ban porn! Oh wait, I forgot this was an adult forum! Silly me :oh crap

So, anyone here supporting the NRA, is also supporting a ban on the adult industry?

Ok guys, you carry on with that, Us Europeans will be happy to have a bigger market share :thumbsup

You can't pay for everything, cops at every school now.
Bush gets a terrorist attack and the only thing he claims for his legacy is another one didn't happen on his watch. Well, look at the economy! Nice Legacy.

Terrorists commandeer a plane with knifes on 9/11 and suddenly guns are the largest issues.

take the guns from the criminals, then we can talk. Until then, not going to wait for thne cops while the alarm is going off. Put an NRA decal in your front window and you have just lowered your chance of a break in. Put a silhouette target with a bunch of holes in it and the phrase, Burglars wanted, Inquire within, now your chances of a break in have lowered even more.

About 10 years ago, there was a fire near my folks house in Northern California, My step dad was driving to the house where my mother was. The cops had a road block up that prevented my stepfather from getting to my mother. He had a 4X4 Dodge and drove around them and they chased him, when he rolled down their drive way, the cops saw my mother loading guns into the back of her car, they decided to let my mother and my stepfather stay on the property till they wanted to leave, which they did and the cops pressed charges, THEY LOST. The cops think they are the power out there but they are public servants. No one has the right to take you off your property like that. Just glad they didn't shoot at my mother.
Same neighborhood 32 years go, the I-5 killing hit 2 doors down while my stepfather was working nights. My mother was a mess for a while after that and walked around the house with a shotgun at night for a few years. They live in the country.

If you feel safe from all the evils of the world and don't like guns, no one is making you get one, unless you live in that county down in the south. I had an asshole walk up behind me a couple months ago and smash a beer mug in my face. While they were stitching me up, the cops asked for a description of the guy. I gave it to them and they arrested him two beds over in the ER, his hand was all cut up from the glass. I went to the arraignment, called him a coward and told the judge he was safer in jail. He was out on parole for two other acts of violence, one to his wife. He was 6'3" , just as big as me. You really want to know what the fucking problem is? It wasn't guns, it's about a fucked up system we have! Banning guns will do nothing but make people hide their guns.......

Shoots completely different, Mini 14 .223 is a rifle round where the carbine is a 30 caliber pistol round.

There are over ninety thousand public schools in the US.... So the NRA wants us to hire 90k people trained to use firearms by January 2nd?

Um, who is gonna pay for this?

I'm a gun owner and supporter of the 2nd amendment, but decals telling the world you own guns DOES NOT make you safer. In fact, it makes you more of a target to potential thieves ("hey, this guy has some guns..let's break into the house when he's not around." Most gun owners I know never advertise that we own guns, as we don't want them to get stolen.

As for gun bans, they won't work in light of the fact that there are already 300 million guns out there. Banning guns will be just as effective as Prohibition in the 1920s. Alcohol was banned because it was responsible for the pain and suffering of many. But the problem; the demand is insatiable, therefore it didn't work. The same thing with guns. Just foolish to bring up gun bans.

As for armed guards in schools, who the fuck is going to pay for that? Sounds like TSA 2.0 if you ask me. I'm not jazzed about my kids being around a mall rent-a-cop who thinks he's George Zimmerman. So if we are talking about putting trained black-ops type guards at our schools, someone is going to have to pay for that shit.

And the NRA blaming movies and videos games is just stupid. They had a chance to step up, and whiffed BADLY.

That's a very good singular example right there.

Any more similiar examples to offset the carnage caused by guns?

As has been pointed out, many schools already have this in place. I guess they would need to figure out how many DONT have this in place already, count backwards and go from there.

Ask the parents of kids in these schools if this is something they might want to have in place. What do you think the parents of those dead kids in CT would say?

Oh my god today really must be the end of the world. Im in perfect agreement with you :)

9/11 , they used box cutters

yes and they tightly control the sale of ammo. I think its only 50 rounds per person pretty much for life

There are approx 6m unemployed. As we discussed the other day. Look at the current unemployment rates of veterans.

NRA Press Conference:



Lucky somebody didn't shoot him... :upsidedow

:smilie_we

ADG

Didn't take long.. I wonder how many other innocent people would've been shot if the police hadn't shot him?



HOLLIDAYSBURG, Pa. (AP) — A man fatally shot a woman decorating for a children's Christmas party at a tiny church hall and killed two men elsewhere in a rural central Pennsylvania township Friday before he was fatally shot in a gunfight with state troopers.

If 12,000 people a year were being killed by maniacs with box cutters I'm pretty sure they would be a lot harder to get than guns are now.

Yes, just what we need. Minimum wage mall rent-a-cops with a George Zimmerman complex patrolling our schools with guns. I'm not sure the best argument is, "let's hire all the poor unemployed folks in this country to patrol our schools with guns."

Assuming 100,000 schools at $50K a pop (not including benefits), and you are looking at $5 BILLION.

Even if you know what you are doing, it takes a little while to break into a gun safe that's anchored down. I have never had a gun stolen, no one in my family has had a gun stolen. I have had one burglar break in my whole life and the burglar was chased away by my neighbor who pointed a gun at him.

Really - I thought that the truthers decided that a load of stupid ragheads with box cutters could not possibly hijack 4 planes and fly them through US airspace into their targets ?

The problems isn't the caliber, the magazine size, silencers, or anything else they want to ban, this type of ban will never work.

The problem is that there is a large number of Americans who are extremely paranoid and are on the edge of mental collapse.

Having an armed guards would be great for American schools, it would endoctrinate an entire generation to live in fear of the "bad guys". These kids will have no problem signing up to fight the "bad guys" on the other side of the world when called upon.

A lot of folks don't have gun safes (I have two, a large Superior Safe and a bio-safe next to my bed). I've known many folks who have had guns stolen (mostly from their cars).

I just think it is a bad idea to put those decals on your home or car, ESPECIALLY those that say, "I shoot first ask questions later" type of decals (as they can complicate any self defense claims you may need to bring. Guns are valuable commodities, and thieves will target you if you advertising that you have a lot of expensive weaponry in your home or car. Most gun nuts I know (and I know many) NEVER advertise their gun ownership to the general public.

$5b...the federal government spends that every 12 hours.

Who is talking about minimum wage rent-a-cops..I have said more than once, that our veterans are ending their terms of service with the military and finding no jobs.

the problem is the recent shootings werent criminals. I think you want to buy 6000 rounds of ammo, someone should ask why do you need that? someone buys a shitload of guns quick, they should be asked why do you need all these guns?
We could cut gun ownership in half dont ban it but make a law for mandatory training for 4 weekends a year. Such a great responsibly is treated way too lightly.

not true, they can buy all the ammo they want at the gun ranges and the country has over 3,000 gun ranges

Better circle this date. The odds of it happening again are less than 50% :winkwink:

I've never been confused with being normal. I spent time at the local gun range teaching the cops how to shoot better.
There are ways short of having a safe to keep your guns safe. I didn't always have one

Oddly - none of the parents in Newtown, CT were invited as guest speakers.