250 Misunderstandings!!!

Huh? Man... WHAT? How in the world is this your response to what I wrote???:
"Mister Peabody, would you care to take the honors of being the thread's coveted success case?

I hope he says, "FUCK YEAH!""

Dude, my father always said All Problems Are Problems Of Communication, so that's probably the case here, but I still would love to somehow follow your thought process going from what I wrote, to what you wrote.
Don't be so defensive! I guess I understand your defensiveness here, though, since there are so many people constantly on "offense". But in this case I wasn't trying to doubt you or mentor you or disprove the base of the thread.
In fact, I was trying to ANSWER your original question of the thread:
"I’m curious to know how many newbie producers have created member’s site startups that have actually made any money in todays market? And I'm not talking rent money... I mean serious money. I’m talking people who got in the game within like the last couple years."

This entire thread we've been trying to come up with a specific answer to your question.
I first suggested JT and Ruseful, then suggested perhaps BrokeAmateurs.com, then I guessed Porno Dan. None of those three ended up being a "perfect" answer to your question.
So, my next guess was/is Mister Peabody - perhaps he is a good example of a newbie-ish producer who has created members' site startups that have actually made any money in today's market.
And I said that I hope he says "FUCK YEAH" because that seems to be his catchphrase as of late. He had a thread today called FUCK YEAH and he even wrote FUCK YEAH repeatedly in this very thread that we're writing in. So when I said that I hope he says FUCK YEAH, it was a joke referring to this catchphrase of his. Gosh golly gee.
Clear?

OK, So all, is Mister Peabody an example of someone who fits as a yes in OP's original question?

themisterpeabody.com was launched in 2006-2007, he didn't launched peabodycash until late 2009. where he then saw some success with one site having a somewhat significant memberbase in 2010 (erosexotica). since then, nothing too much in the way of a good memberbase but it appears he's maintaining his business with new small sites.. nothing that has yet to reach the level of erosexotica

there may be sites im missing that are not listed on his program

with all that said, he had years of being involved in adult and poking away from what it appears. earned his stripes and gained experience and learned alot beforehand. unlike a newcomer.

it appears hes maining his business better than most. but i think it shows that you still have to spend a while in adult until you REALLY get the hang of things

Too late to edit my post. Looks like there are tons of sites that aren't listed in his program. He has infact been steadily running paysites since 2005-2006. Hes got 30 (atleast) to his name dating back to then

http://www.erosexotica.com/join.html (scroll down)

i wouldn't say he had a full understanding until late 09,early 2010 when he finally launched erosexotica. given his posts regarding his budget and asking for tips in 2009.

*my posts are not taking anything away from his business, it appears to be doing well and i respect the route he took, trying to show that time and experience is very important/needed on a modest budget, which he did infact have*

Lol, relax bro. Obviously I missed the "Mister Peabody" reference. I had no clue who he even was until now. So sadly no, you still have not managed to come up with a single person qualified to fit the profile of new, inexperienced, and successful in this realm of the biz.

And I'm not trying to be defensive. I really hope you guys do find people that fit the profile, and lots of them. You would think they wouldn't be that hard to find if noobs were actually coming in the industry and making it happen.

You'll want a high speed stills cam with a flash. You can get them nowadays probably for about the same it would cost you to shoot one of your scenes (or less), especially if you buy used.

Cool site BTW. Thanks for sharing your story. I wish you all the best of luck with everything! :thumbsup

I may just be dropping you a line too.

EDIT: Looking back now I actually do remember him. The name just didn't register with me. But the answer is still no, he doesn't fit the profile.

Thanks for asking. There a few reasons.

I say that because at least initially, in start up, the cost of acquiring enough affiliates and maintaining them properly with fresh tools doesn't return enough profit to make it worthwhile. It is better to create an internal marketing plan along with a good seo foundation first and when the business is stable and profitable then adding affiliates to the mix.

The problem is newbs look at all these programs that appear to be selling like mad, but really are not. In fact, they are probably doing more like what Josh is doing but are not as honest as he is about it. However, the newbs still assume that launching a new program will bring in a rush of affiliates and those people will do the work of marketing to make the program a success.

It doesn't work that way.

The newb needs to focus on marketing. Since many content producers that are newbs only focused on content first, the fun part, the part where they get to bang chicks end to end until they need to make money to pay for more, they don't consider the marketing part. They tend to assume "build it and they will come", no pun intended.

It doesn't work that way.

But please, I still want to know what you think is the first measure of success for a start up newb that starts with - 1k, $2500, 5k, 10k, or whatever number you say, because otherwise we are just looking at ethereal hypothetical scenarios. Let's get concrete.

You need to be more specific because otherwise this is just a big guessing game that is a waste of time that only can provide a foregone conclusion.

How recent is "recent"?

How much cash to start?

What level of monthly income qualifies as "success" in your mind?

How much prior experience is too much?

I thought we pretty much cleared that up by now. It would be anyone who launched in 2010 or later, with no prior adult experience. They would need to produce their own exclusive content. Starting budget could be no more than 50-100k, as anything over that and you're no longer a small time guy. And they should be making 3-5k per month (minimum).

A flawed business model coming out of the gate.

:2 cents:

Why are you guys even trying to argue such specific points anymore? It's pretty clear that someone with absolutely no industry experience, no technical skills and little money is going to have a very tough going even if they are smart and hard-working. There probably isn't anyone that qualifies as successful under those strict conditions. But who cares?

Like I mentioned above, I think it's a lot more interesting to discuss what someone with some years of industry experience, some small to medium amount of money and at least some degree of technical skills in one area or another could achieve in 2013. Not debating whether you can find someone who just dropped into the business yesterday after having never given it any thought in his life before and $500 bucks in his pocket could do.

It's a shame markham is still banned. I bet his insights into this topic would be awesome.

First measure of success? Thats solely up to whoever is investing, some people just look to come out on top, some people seek a certain return, some people are looking to be in this business full time, some people consider their time worth 5k a month, some 10k

Did you think i thought otherwise? Because i was answering a question that asked what i thought most newcomers likeliness was to make 5k a month and how much that would take? Some people dont find things worth it for them unless they can invest all their time into something unless they make that amount of money. I wasn't here to argue what he was happy with.

So i answered that question, saying it was possible before (as evident by the amount of people who did it). But its not as likely today (evident by the lack of people who have done it in the past few years)

Why? Because thats what he feels his time is worth and could probably make that elsewhere, it was possible to do at one time, so he was asking if it is now. I think its a fair question considering it wasn't all that long ago that it was possible to come in with no experience and make alot of money

I know alot of lazy people who didn't know this industry very well when they made their money (years ago). He was trying to get an understanding of how much tougher its gotten.

Also he didn't say no experience and only 500 bucks, he actually said 50k (upwards of 100) as a rough number.

And yes theres other interesting things to discuss and maybe those things will be touched on, as for the previous 6 pages, people have been touching on that because its what was asked. because thats the position hes in.

Far-L asked the question so I simply responded to him. I think it's pretty safe to say we've moved past the initial question that this thread was based on. It's clearly evident that there's no one out there with that profile that has a fair chance of succeeding today. Not to say it would be impossible, people get struck by lightning all the time. But the odds of success are next to zero.

Taking what you just said though. It would be interesting to see what people think about the chances and challenges of those who come in with a lot of production experience but not so much sales/marketing/traffic experience vs. someone with a lot of sales/marketing experience.

I told you on ICQ what i believed your best bet was, and i think its the best bet for any new producer post 2010. I think you should make a website, get a cms, put it all together, shoot the content and then find a program that is successful and team up with them and try to work out a fair percent for them but never take less than 50 percent, try to get more than that if you can.

The $ return will be very quick as they already have an established affiliate database and all it takes is a simple mail out to get you out there and making lots of sales.

If you have a product good enough, they may take even a lower percent if they think its capable of making alot of money.

So I think being a producer gives you many more options

I know. I was paying attention :thumbsup

I was posing the question to help other readers who may find themselves in a similar situation.

And I respectfully disagree with what he is saying.

One, on the budget you are describing you don't have to take on a partner like that. Next, what are affiliates going to get? Probably 50%, maybe more depending on the partner, now you will split that with the partner so really you only are getting 25% but add to that the potential costs the partner is taking out first, most likely hosting, processing, and maybe hard marketing costs like ad buys, and the producer is going to want production costs out by the same token.

The percentage left is pretty small.

Then why would a good solid marketing partner need that producer since it would generally be cheaper to just shop for exclusive content that has a one time cost and they would own it. This is exactly why you see so many failed relationships that are done like this. Hell, I have it on very reasonable and trusted authority that not all the Manwin content partners are very happy. What does that tell you if the ones with more traffic than God can't make partners happy?

The path to success is literally strewn with the dead and mangled bodies of companies that took that approach.

Now, 100k is half the investment nut of 200k for what Ruseful spent - would you be happy with half his success? I would in that amount of time especially but I wouldn't be unhappy if it took twice as long to get half that successful either because by any biz standard that would still be measured as hugely successful.

Now factor in that he is willing to tell you exactly what he did to get there and pretty much has spelled it out here and in other threads too. So why couldn't someone with ZERO prior knowledge of the industry but $50 to $100k to invest not learn from that and create similar success? I will tell you why. Most people don't really think these things through and do the due diligence homework that is necessary first. They want someone to do it for them. They listen to bad advice. A few months later they are out of the biz.

Anyone remember Hanco? That is why I call it "Hanco Syndrome".

I'm reading a bit of a sense of entitlement in this thread... Why should a newbie with a bit of capital and no other skills be able to come up with a profitable paysite? Online business rewards intelligence and innovation, it isn't supposed to be easy.

All very valid points. And I don't disagree with any of them. I would certainly never suggest that Pseudonymous' recommended path to success is the best choice for everyone to follow. He was speaking more to the condition of those with more production experience and less sales/marketing experience. Never the less, I agree, everything you said are things newcomers will have to weigh out when thinking of partnering to decide if it's really worth it to them in the end.

And you're absolutely right about Ruseful and his openess to educate others on how he was able to succeed. But you still have to remember that he had extensive prior experience in his field. And although putting that experience to words for other's to follow is great, even that may not be enough in the end. If I'm not mistaken he said he ran that tube site for 4yrs. When you know the ins and outs of how the tubes work 1st hand, that experience goes a long way towards ones ability. And thus it may not be a template that everyone can follow. We don't know how much of success in JT's model is weighted on ones experience/ability with tubes and their users, as opposed to being able to follow guide/plan correctly.

Is he the first to actually go that route from scratch, relying primarily on the tubes to generate traffic? It no doubt seems to be a great path model. Could very well be the new industry path model of the future. I would like to see if any other starters can actually use it with a fair measure of success though before we brand it as such.

Looking back I guess I should've just said there's pluses and minuses to everything.

True, it's not supposed to be easy, but it's not supposed to be impossible either. Lot's of people start mainstream businesses all the time from scratch without any prior experience and are able to become successful. A lot fail, sure. But there are also a lot of success stories out there.

I was simply asking where are all the success stories for recent newcomers doing the same in adult.

Ok, if a newb is able to come to a board like this and pay nothing for valuable firsthand knowledge from someone like Ruseful, Barefootsies, WA, or any other experienced person willing to help lend a hand, then doesn't that actually prove my point?

It is like you think there is some wall to success just because the person is a newb but that just isn't true. There is amazing access to plentiful information on how to succeed but most will choose either to ignore it or never look for it in the first place. Ruseful didn't know anything about adult when he started. He is willing to pass that on to help someone else. Doesn't that mean others could achieve similar results? Most won't, of course, but it has nothing to do with the market and more to do with their business skills and work ethic I guarantee.

For example, being successful on tubes is not rocket science and it is not some secret which only the initiated are privy to; it comes down to doing research, analyzing data, and refining the pitch while providing steady content for more exposure. Lather, rinse, repeat. It is work that many don't want to do, especially most content producers that tend to be more focused on whether or not a starlet is going to show up to suck cock in yet another POV scene.

Now that I've read this entire thread, it's been a lot of fun :thumbsup

Pseudonymous, want to get a beer sometime?

definitely :thumbsup

I'll hit you up on ICQ.

Edit----

It proves that a newb can get some guidance if he/she looks for it. But that doesn't mean the hurdles get automatically lowered.

It's not just me, but nearly half the people that posted in this thread. That's not to say the wall can't be scaled, but it's a hell of a lot higher/harder than most people perceive it to be for the beginner. It's easy for everyone here with experience to sit back and comment on how it's not that difficult if you put in the necessary effort, etc. But you think every single newb that failed to reach a fair level of success, didn't do so because they didn't work hard enough?? Or take the biz serious enough? Come on...

Really?? I'd like to have him come back on here and clear that up for the record, cause that's certainly not the impression I got from talking with him.

I'll admit that I don't know enough about the tubes yet to accurately comment on this. But this really does comes off sounding very similar to other things that people research and analyze in order to "predict" what the customer is going to do and want so that they can best reach them. And we all know that doesn't always work out as planned (or predicted).

Manwin has content partners? Everything I've read from Nathan is that Manwin owns everything outright. Right on this board I questioned him about the Playboy deal, which I thought was a type of partnership between Manwin and Playboy where Manwin licensed/operated Playboy's websites and TV channels and split profits - he corrected me saying it was not that kind of partnership.

Partnered on Wicked's site

Send me an email at [email protected] - after the Vegas events ill spend an hour with you on skype to make sure you'll be in the right direction. Joshgirls same as well.

I have a lot of comments to say, but not much free time. For the moment I'll point out one of the most common mistakes which paysite owners do: NEGLECTING THE TOUR

You cant budget $500, $800 etc for a tour. Why? Cause you need to constantly test it and optimize it and that takes 100s of hours. A very good tour is a world of its own.

I believe a noob can walk in today and be successful, but he's not going to get it right the first time. If he is driven, pays attention to stats, learns from others and really puts in effort with a niche that has potential, he can make it. Odds are not in his favor, but people beat the odds every day. People beat cancer and summit mountains all the time, so making money in porn isn't really mission impossible.

Strip away all the bullshit and your only real goal is to get a guy who probably already has his cock in his hand to pay for whatever it is your selling so that he can cum to the image or video he thinks he needs to satisfy whatever craving he has at that moment. If you have a penis you know the process. Some strokers are frugal so you need to cater to them as well, but most of them just want to get off. Help them.

And to touch one what Theo just said, you MUST get your tours optimized and try to find out what works best for them. Sometimes just changing a color or a single image makes a word of difference. I see some new guys posting their tours on here and they are awful. I'm not talking about slick graphics, I'm talking about functionality and clear vision of what the site is. Getting them from A to Z should be quick and painless. If they have to figure out how to work your site or how to get to the next page, you will lose them as fast as you got them. I don't believe slick graphics sell a site, content and ease of use does. Give them what they want in a manner that a drunk retarded German with bad eyes can figure it out with ease, and you'll do OK.

Not serious money just yet, but reasonable money with no promotion at all!

Make goals, keep testing, and keep improving. You'll get to where you want to be.

Care to elaborate on this? When did you launch? What was your starting budget? What was your prior experience? And what do you call reasonable money? Hopefully at least 2k per month.

Despite no Paul Markham, I see this content producer thread becomes book long, more than discussions about traffic.
This let me think, that there's more content producers than affiliates in GFY? Including former content producers, and wanna-be content producers, not just currently active ones.

My 2 historical cents: Before of cams, I was into prerecorded content, solo girls stuff, not photographer myself, just had partners in the east I tell who to shoot and how, and setup site and submit to tgp's and such. I remember that prior to 2005, but even better prior to 2003, whatever russian / ukrainian (or their western partner's) had took photos of naked blondes and setup a ccbill site (or ibill site lol), had easily got back the investment. There was several St.Petersburg based sites with list of 100+ models, everyone had the same local girls mostly. You would select what girls, tell what to do, then the site guy had found photographer on the fly (if he was not one), called the girls, rented a flat (or go in "free of charge nature" - or in "soviet ruins", I always liked girls in ruins), and delivered the content in ftp site.

Cost was quite affordable, was few $100's for several sets + videos per girl. I remember I dealt with Paul Markham too but never buy anything, thre was several Prague content providers but asked $400+ a set that was 3+ times the russians with no advantage (imho) except a little more "pro" looks, which not necessarily it is a selling point (see "amateur" niche). To make enough content for a site launch, with some luck, you could be within the $5k, or even $3k if you hired in Siberia or Ukraine too, where cheaper ones could be found, even backgrounds was even more a ruin or forest style. The fun fact it is, the time the guys hired the girl, they shoot more than what you asked, and re-sold those sets themselves to someone else. You would figure it when you seen same girl & makeup and nearby trees or ruins location, or changed background sheets if was a studio, or room if was a rented flat... but well, was no big deal, except you made this to met-art which was paying like 10 times anyone else for this stuff, and upset if indirectly funded the shoot of competitor's sets, but I can tell 99.9% of photographer made this to met-art too, that was funny times.

But sometime after 2005, it became no more easy to get back investment in the above way (I mean you order russian content, setup site, submit galls + wait affiliates, and make money). At that time however, the "older" and stable sites still continued to order content, the issue it was just with noobs willing to start. Of course became even more difficult after 2008 or 2010 etc., when even older sites had issues to order new photosets for updates, but I would set the timeline at 2005-2006, when the content sites started to close and those models had to find other jobs as not enough photosets per month to do this as stable job - unless in the lucky list of photographers and models working for those few big sites out there. Lots of these models moved into cams, even if, photo models and cam models are quite a different type of job and most would not adapt.

Of course the Usa/Canada content production may have followed a different path, especially consider I switched to cams in 2004 so I have no direct info since, and anyway never been in boy+girl content, only been in solo girl or g+g and eastern originated.
In full honesty I switched to cams as soon as I feared prerecorded content was saturated and pirated so not long term, I had no personal attachment to the specific activity so not persistent or motivated to produce content and sites at any cost. In fact, I would stop doing cams too, as soon as it would no more be profitable (before adult I was into video games devlopment, now it is a little harder to do $$ there too).
Eventually there's people who do content with passion and that may give the extra help to make it work, I'm sure some out there worked endless hours and been in loss at start, in order to finally reach good archievment, I am honest I do this just as a job, as soon as there no money I am gone :)

I can see an Octomom video made by wicked or else VIP tapes or current hollywood movies parodies may have a business, mine 2 cents story it is about unnamed eastern girls content. About East, going more east I seen in another thread a very nice 1:200 conversion ratio reported for filipinasexdiary.com , site is new and obvious success, so new site with "non vip's" content can do well, however the guys behind it are not new, I believe the thread was about new guys, not new sites from old guys.

I give a good luck to everyone, considering who's in adult it is not so supported by anyone really (not even by others in adult).

To me, it is just starting to sound like all you really want is for it to be "easy", you know, like it was in the good ol' days...

That "good ol days" is a myth. Those people that were successful yesterday worked hard. Some were successful but most failed even then. Even the successful ones found out things were not easy when user behaviors changed and they were not prepared for it for any number of reasons, the drug habits they took on, the arrogance of bad investments, the unwillingness to change and adapt, whatever.

I never said it was easy. I just say it is easier nowadays to figure out how to be a success because of the abundant cheap resources that make the barrier to entry very low. However, I never said it won't be about hard work.

Good luck, maybe for you the third time will be the charm.

I wish you luck but honestly, judging from this thread and your apparent willingness to buy into the easy "logic" of the sophists that are telling you what you want to hear, unfortunately I think you are more likely going to fail. Hope you prove me wrong.

Agreed. It seems anyone with actual working knowledge of what works, because it isn't what people actually want to hear are just wasting their time/effort in sharing information, which is why I stopped responding in this thread, everyone is saying we're wrong, but not backing it up with any hard evidence other than the same old 'that isn't what we're talking about' rhetoric.

I didn't read this thread, i'm sure their is plenty of great points and discussions.

I think opening up a site with the hopes that mad traffic will come because affiliates can't wait to promote and google will just love it... are over for the newbs.

I would say start up a bunch of free sites (all niche related), find a few that start to get organic traffic and turn them into a paysite. Now here is the trick, you need to turn it into a paysite *without* causing a huge drop in traffic.

True dat.

Back in the day you did not have the ease of WordPress, MechBunny, and alike. Many first generation porn sites were static pages done by hand. I think the only thing actually "easier" back then was conversions.

Now-a-days you have endless tools at your disposal.

Exactly. Plus way lower costs on things like hosting and bandwidth.

We actually still convert really well on Google/organic traffic - of course that has a lot to do with the brand name - but truthfully I think sites like "fake agent" are doing really well too because they are very well targeted, streamlined in the pitch, and easy to grasp like what DWB is saying... but let's face it... "Fake Agent" is simply a re-hash of Netvideogirls and that site has been converting well for years. Not rocket science to figure out how JT came up with the idea for the niche.

You guys are really getting ridiculous. You two have a certain mentality about just how ?easy? (or difficult) it is for a newbie to enter the industry today, whereas myself (and apparently others too) see things differently. Perception and reality are not always the same. Go back and re-read the first few pages of this thread when nearly everyone was saying if you don?t already have traffic and/or a ton of experience don?t waste your time. So we?ll just have to agree to disagree here. When you start providing evidence of the influx of newbies launching successful pay sites then I?ll believe the hype.

And for the record, I never said I was planning on investing in adult again to begin with. The question was asked to get the ?truth? about the state of the industry as far as total beginners launching pay sites.

I?m about making money first and foremost. I never expect starting any business in any field to be ?easy?. But there?s a big difference between a market having fair odds and one having extremely difficult odds. It?s "possible" for anyone to make it to the pros from a minor league team, but the reality is that the odds of someone actually getting there that way are really stacked against you. There are a lot of great players out there don?t always even get an opportunity or a break. But I suppose people like you would say the ones that didn?t make it, it?s because they didn?t train hard enough, or didn?t have enough will to make it. Sometimes it?s a little more complicated than that, regardless of what industry you?re in. That?s all I?m trying to say.

Sounds like another one against a newbies chances just starting out.

No one's disputing that. I feel like we're just going around in circles here arguing the same thing. My whole point was that sometimes you can have all the tools, do everything right, and still be unsuccessful. Perhaps there were just 1 too many pizza stands on the same block.

Ok. I never said you and the others were not entitled to your opinions, just that I disagreed on the basis of a seemingly ever changing standard that everyone that espoused that view seemed to hold.

Now I see the light. You guys are right. Traffic is really really really hard to get. Newbs should forget about even trying. Game over. Not even worth the effort.

It is a good thing too.

People that think like that just make it easier for the ones that do want to succeed. :1orglaugh

Whatever bro. Nobody altered any standards. Believe it or not, I'm actually on your side. I want to see newbs do exactly what you say they "all" can do. So instead of going back and forth beating a dead horse here. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and try and help some of these newbs be all that they "can" and "should" be. You can start with Joshgirls. I'm sure he'd be grateful for your assistance.

The information on how to do something has been given to you. I don't think you deserve it honestly but it has.

I read this thread since my post... some people mentioned some *awesome* things (besides myself) and you choose the path of argument.

Good luck.

How many times do I have to say that this is not about me? I am not in adult biz! You obviously didn't read what you quoted... Does that look like my username at the end of the paragraph??

I swear there are some really daft people on this board. No better proof that reading is fundamental than on gfy. Else people would understand that I never argued anyone's methodologies to success, only the definition of success, and the ability for ALL (who try) to reach it. I personally know how to read quite well and have read every piece of advice that was given out on this thread. But thank you so much for pointing out the obvious.

What 'cha doing on an adult industry forum?

I "was" in the biz. Past tense :winkwink:

How about the FuckedHard18 guys?

Very far from new.

2007 and if i dug, i wouldn't be surprised to find a connection to even further back.

Edit-- builttoconvert.com is 2005

Got cha.

Good discussion going on here.

So this is a *what if* situation from a has been, or as they say, wanna be?

lol, what fun. :1orglaugh