The bottom line about that killing is that it was a mentally unstable guy/couple of guys, who hacked someone to death. Nothing to do with being a muslim or not. The guy was just deranged.

I just hope a bit of common sense prevails here in the UK- there's fucking millions of muslims, sikhs, hindus, buddhists, catholics and all manner of people with oddball beliefs just getting on with life as it should be. As neighbours, just trying to make ends meet and get on with their lives.

As a white anglo-saxon English guy, I say those EDL morons just bring shame to white folks. Fucking morons.

Not believing in God (depending on how you're defining it) is a belief. A belief based upon available (or not) evidence today. Unless you think that what you know now about 'God' is all humanity is ever going to know. Which is somewhat arrogant and delusional.

Show someone living 500 years ago an iPhone or Space Shuttle or nuke and it would blow their minds. And yet all the materials to make those things existed in their world too, all around them. The only difference is they weren't aware of them at that time and were not in a position to harness them.

How can you be sure we're the superior life form in an infinite universe? And how can you be so sure, knowing the scientific and technological advances made in just the past 100 years, that in 10,000 years there will not be some evidence one way or the other about 'superior' beings (Gods)?

BTW, rogueteens, you sound like an agnostic, not an atheist, and agnosticism is the most sane and rational position to take.

Ehhhhhhh?

So its not a fact that, for example, goblins do not exist? Or that immortal people (like from Highlander movie) do not exist?

actually, no it isn't. people have claimed to have seen goblins and immortals have been reported throughout history so although highly, highly unlikely, it cannot be said that it is a fact that they do not exist.

LOL, yeah. I keep changing my mind all the time! One day I'm atheist the next I'm agnostic.
Although I just cannot get my head around the idea of a god, the idea that the universe is just an alien senior school experiment, or that we are genetically created by aliens (which I suppose would make them gods) is a fantastical one that keeps me amused.

What about god Zeus?
What about giant 5000kg weighting dolphins?
What about 6 inch high people (like those in Gulliver's stories)?

My point is that unless you can prove that something doesn't exist then you do not know that it doesn't. Just saying that it doesn't exist isn't scientific proof, people 100 years ago said that the Coelacanth died out 65 million years ago, they said that it was a fact.
The big bang theory is a good example, scientists are in the main agreed that this is what happened at the start of the universe but they cannot prove it so it remains just that a theory.

And my point is that it is not possible to prove that something does not exist.
I believe there is a known phrase - You can't prove a negative.

and that's why ct threads can go for days and days.

hold on a sec, why have you been arguing with me? We are on the same side, that's basically what I've been saying!

Friendly hint: It's fucking stupid to try and compare the concept of God, that billions of different people have believed in for millennia, to other shit, like Godzilla or 6 inch high people, that absolutely nobody at all believes in or has ever believed.

:2 cents:

Well I think it is a fact that 5000 kg dolphins or God (aged 2000+ years) does not exist. You do not agree that it is a fact and request evidence of non existence before you would agree that it is a fact.

The imagination of man can be seen every day, and the stupidity that goes along with it.

sheesh, wehateporn was right.

If back then people invented all powerful Godzilla which created the world instead of God than billions would have believed in it.
Only difference - numbers of believers. Number of believers is higher not because its more likely to exist.

:uhoh

Morph

Not if you're an atheist.

I'm defining God in the human religious sense, whatever name they give him based on their religion. That being does not exist, therefor there is nothing to not believe in, just as you don't form an option on Spider Man as he doesn't exist either, yet you can't prove it.

Believing in "god" in other ways could be a belief, such as you believe you are your own god, or god was the big bang, or however you want to define it. But in the biblical sense, it is a story, nothing to not believe it. Believing the biblical story is what borders on a serious mental disorder.

As helterskelter808 said, you don't sound like an atheist, as they do not believe at all. By simply saying god may exist because you can't prove it, says you are not an atheist. Agnostic is what you are. Then there is nothing to debate, as agnostics view it all as unknown.

Science is not faith or a lack of. It is science. That is their theory of how the universe was created, they may be right or wrong, but we do know for FACT that the universe was created at one time and that all particles within it are moving outward. This much is known as fact, so they base their theory on this.

People believe in fairies, ghosts, evil and good spirits, spirits in the trees, spirits in the mountain, spirits in the water, animals with spirits, angels, demons, black magic, voodoo, and some even believe in the matrix. Indians believe in 1000s of deities. Some people actually do believe in leprechauns. The list of crazy shit people believe in is too long to list. All are as absurd as the next, and all are 100% based on superstition or faith, that was passed down to them through generations.

So no, it is not fucking stupid to compare one absurd thing to another. They are all as equally silly as Godzilla. And I may add that some cultures used to worship lizards, and some American hillbillies still worship snakes.

There is no end to the lunacy that humans will go to when it comes to the land of make believe. And the only reason you think the concept of god is superior is because that is how it was taught to you by people who it was taught to them.

The better debate to have is WHY humans feel they must believe in something supernatural.

Bloody hell, this is so simple.
I believe there is no such thing as god but I cannot prove this (nor can anyone else), therefore it is a belief! If I could prove it then it would be a fact but I cannot so it is a belief!.

No one here can say as a fact that there is no god, if you can then PROVE it, saying "my word is fact" doesn't hold up in any discussion.

It's not fucking rocket science!

If you've ever seen the really good Bill Maher documentary Religulous that's the exact argument he makes. A quote from his ending monologue...

"And anyone who tells you they know, they just know what happens when you die, I promise you, you don?t. How could I be so sure? Because I don?t know, and you do not possess mental powers that I do not. The only appropriate attitude for man to have about the big questions is not the arrogant certitude that is the hallmark of religion, but doubt. Doubt is humble, and that?s what man needs to be, considering that human history is a litany of getting shit dead wrong."

I believe in dog! I'm a dislexic!

There is no such thing as God, people that think there is "believe it". We don't have to prove that God doesn't exist, the believers have to prove that he does. If I said "dvtimes was working for Goldman Sachs" then you don't believe that, I do, it would be upto me to prove that he was. This is the problem with religion, most kids are brain washed pretty much from birth by their family that there is a God and because we are (catholic for example) then you will be a catholic too little boy. People don't get much of a "fair" chance to form their own opinions. It's actually pretty disgusting.
The "gods" were aliens, that's why all these "different" religions popped up. To be honest IF I was created by some supreme being that expects me to go to church every Sunday and kneel down and worship him, well he can go fuck himself :)

It doesn't matter what you are. Something is either demonstrably untrue, say by giving a provable alternative, or you simply believe it is untrue, based on available evidence.

Atheists pretending that it's an established fact that God does not exist is just as delusional and arrogant as religious people pretending that it's an established fact that God does exist.

Well that's another issue, 'what is God'. I think it's probably different for everyone, but I think for most people it's not a literal thing, in fact for most people the Bible is not taken absolutely literally.

It's actually quite a good work of fiction, and I don't mean that sarcastically. I think the stories and messages are interesting and instructive, and I think that's what most people take from it.

Of course some people take it literally, and they are the crazies and fundamentalists. Though personally I find atheist fundamentalists just as tiresome. At one time being an atheist was no big deal, you just quietly didn't believe in something. Easy. These days it seems to be an atheist you have to talk about it at every opportunity, as if you're blowing minds. I'm not referring to you, BTW, but people on Youtube or other social media, who worship their own Gods, Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens.

Agnostic is I guess what I am, though I personally wouldn't even bother putting a label on it. I also do quite like the idea that God exists, but he is a humongous cunt, which explains all the bad things that happen in the world.

I agree about the 'brainwashing', but that's the same for everything. I think most people believe, for example, that we landed men on the moon not because they have examined the evidence or arguments for and against, but because that's what they've been told. It's natural to assume that if you're being told something is true, and most other people seem to believe it, then it probably is true.

Personally I'm quite lenient towards believers in God. If the concept of God is personal, and not someone 'interpreting' God's message and passing it on to them (religion), then I don't see a problem.

And while you don't need a God to behave in a 'good' way, and treat people as you like to be treated, if God helps someone to do it, or it helps them in other ways, if they're in distress or lose hope or whatever, then why not?

I think it's natural for humans to believe in something 'higher' than us. That there's something more than what we know. Doesn't that explain everything we do as humans? Striving for something more? Voyages of discovery or technological advances or exploring space? Finding some answer to life, the universe and everything?

And since the universe is infinite I think there's a pretty good chance that not only other life forms exist, some of them could be entities that are superior to us.

The idea that aliens 'made us', though, is unimaginative and uninteresting to me.

y'all are over-complicating the reasons we need god(s).

it's the same reason we need stereotypes, it simplifies the the things around us.

*god* easily, quickly and most of all, simply explains the unexplainable.

Jesus..... excuse the pun, it's really simple. Aliens didn't make us, they just visited us and our ancestors thought they were Gods, like us, they pondered about how everything came to be. They worshiped the aliens and religions were born. The sad fact is we can land a man on the moon, decipher DNA, replace limbs but we just can't get our heads out of our asses about God. Look when you die you're dead, you're nothing special. In 1960 I didn't exist and in 2115 I won't exist again.

Sorry but that is total, complete and utter bollocks. Its not even worth wasting any more words on.

Yes cunt cos you know it's true, don't fucking brainwash my kids with your shit about God, prove that little fucking fantasy exists or shut the fuck up.

rogueteens makes EXACTLY my point, this planet has a "default" belief system that a God must exist when there is ZERO evidence to back it up.

Actually my remark about aliens was about something earlier in the thread, IIRC. I hadn't read your post. Kinda hard for you to take the high ground about God being a crazy idea if you seriously believe aliens visited us thousands of years ago.

Well they're visiting us now, so why not then ?

Not sure if serious.

By the way, read the thread title, how the fuck did we get down here ?

Funny, ok well I've seen them flying over my place, Aug 2011 and Nov 2011 big orange disk, backed up on UFO sites by many other people.

Now.........tell me........when was the last time you saw God ?

Listen you idiot fuckwad. go back and READ this thread all the way through, maybe just maybe (although I seriously doubt you've got the intelligence) you'll understand what I've been saying because it's totally obvious that your micro-brain has failed to understand anything said so far. If you have trouble with any of the longer words, come back and we'll try and help you out!

I DO NOT BELIVE IN GOD, IT IS MY BELIEF!

No fucking wonder your name is a byword for imbecilic on the other forums, even Paul Markham gains more respect than you.

What a dumb fucking knobcheese, calling me a cunt because he's too fucking stupid to actually read what's written.

Your brain is fucked up mate, "you do not have a belief therefore you believe" oh and I really don't give a shit about what you or the other sad UK fucks think about me in 2013, you have NO FUCKIN CLUE. I've been in this biz since 1997, poor little Be Seen Here was number two in Google for "topless models" back in the day, just under The Sun newspaper, models asked if "I owned the internet" they got so much fucking work, most retired off the back of my websites. So you can sit with the tattooed chavs that now populate the UK industry, I'm pretty much out of it now, about to launch some new niche, focused sites.

Don't talk crap, there is no way you can have run anything successful if you cannot understand something as simple as this thread.

I'll try one more time just for you, you fucking stupid little prick.

"I do not believe in god but as I cannot prove that there is no god then it is my belief that god doesn't and never did exist."

I really cannot make it any simpler than that, you fucking stupid little cunt.

I mean for fucks sake, the wanker thinks I'm trying to convert his kids!!!!

^
^So if someone says "I don't believe in aliens", does that mean aliens don't exist? Or does it mean it is their belief that aliens don't exist?

Or to put it another way: rather arrogant of you to state something is a certifiable fact, without anything to back it up, just because you personally believe it.

You're an ignorant piece of shit that is going to learn the hard way like many others......Be Seeing You :)