"All you always need to hear is both sides of the story" - Phil Collins.

Like I said, I'm not even demonizing the dude. Just not glorifying him either. You're proud of your country and your leader, I get it.

I think we both agree that military intervention in Syria is a bad thing. The question is where to go from here.

"Wouldn't you agree, baby you and me, we've got a groovy kind of love." - Phil Collins

Hoping our world leaders take all of this Syriasly. We don't wanna go Russian into anything.

You are aware that no one need PERMISSION from the UN to invade or attack anyone, right? Western countries do this so they feel they have proper justification, mostly to satisfy people back home... But there is no international law that the UN has to "give permission".

Yup, I'm aware. Again was just contrasting this with Putin's sudden championing of international law when it comes to attacking other countries.

Does anything Putin laid out in that letter apply in Russia?

yes, there is.

if there is not, why do you pay so much money to them every year?

why do we have an international court, nato etc?

Same line of 'attacking without congressional approval'. it's illegal.

and i believe you referenced Georgia.

do you have any idea on how all that started?

Be careful,you might be next, Obama has the bloodlust going on now. He doesn't take kindly to mouthy commies.

I do. I have a Georgian friend and a Russian friend and they disagreed on the subject to say the least. What I gathered myself is that the situation in South Ossetia is a complicated mess.

But that's another subject entirely (with many viewpoints), my only point was to point out an example of Putin's Russia not waiting for international mediation on a full-scale military incursion into a neighboring country, occupying cities & whatnot.

did we wait for international mediation when the europeans stated georgia needed to 'solve it's territorial matters' before entrance into the EU?

hard building a pipelines through someone elses backyard.. yes?

wait.. isn't Syria about a pipeline as well?

how coincidental

Ahhh, now we're going to argue about *this*?

Like I said - S Ossetia is complex, who the fuck knows all the factors involved. Georgia was far far from blameless in that situation. So is Assad in this one.

Thing is Richard, I'm pretty sure we agree on pretty much everything re Syria, and more politically than is worth squabbling about.

Disengage now. _Richard_ squabbles, natters, annoys for the sake of squabbling. He'll take any side of an argument if it lets him post something he's found on the Internet that will make him feel like he's bested you.

ok, so we have gone from 'russian invaded' to 'who the fuck knows'.

I know that, however now we have clarified the meaning behind your statement regarding Putins 'sudden' championing of international law.

"Who the fuck knows" meant the greater situation & motivations of all parties around South Ossetia and the Caucasus. Russia most definitely launched attacks in their sovereign territory & occupied some of their cities for a time.

Jesus christ, you just love to take fragments of what people say out of context, add your little one-liners and then force them to waste time addressing it.

Again we actually do more or less agree on the whole Syria thing, so what's the point of constantly arguing? I said my piece that I think the glorification of Putin is over the top - actually I think you somewhat agree with this, if not we'll just agree to disagree as I said. Enough with the fucking squabbling and one-liners.

fair enough

No, you are wrong as usually. You forgot this man.

That's a complete bullshit. Do you live on the Moon or what? There are two types of media in Russia: federal and independent one. While the federal one is all pro-Putin, the independent media is in opposition. Everybody here has a right to decide which exactly information resources he/she have to trust. For example I do not watch federal television and federal websites. I watch independent TV like the Rain channel and visit independent websites.

So where did you get all that nonsense about of problems with freedom of speech in Russia? Do you understand that you are completely brainwashed person?

Are you idiot? Russian peace keepers were attacked and killed by Georgian army. This is clearly considered as a act of war. Will the US wait for the UN approval if their soldiers will be attacked by the army of another country? You should think before you post anything here. At least you can try to hide your stupidity and ignorance :2 cents:

Two things I am interested :

1. How is TV Rain financed?
2. Who is this guy with green ...well...hat...on his head
http://cdn2.img22.rian.ru/images/56038/92/560389263.jpg

Commercial ads (they have a lot of 'em).

Talgat Tadjuddin. Here is more about him in Russian.

That is great and sad at the same time.

no i didn't dipshit. i stated "power positions" i didn't state premiere or wtfever dumbass.

from his spot as kgb in germany to international affairs director for moscow etc, on & on.

and if you can't figure out that his role in kgb was a power position that allowed him to take advantage of perestroika, well, you just continue to show how fucking stupid you are.

and no, i'm usually right, like right fucking now.

His "power positions" have started on 9 August 1999, when he become a Prime Minister of Russia. Before that time he was nothing and nobody.

What? :helpme :1orglaugh

FYI moron, perestroyka has ended in 1991. Why don't you just read wikipedia, clown?

why are you even picking this as an argument?

dipshit, my original point was he has taken advantage of his positions in power,

Vladimir Putin Net Worth

Net Worth: Stats $70 Billion

http://www.therichest.com/celebnetwo...tin-net-worth/

you'd have to be retarded to think someone who built up this amount of networth from nothing did not take advantage of perestroika being a high level kgb officer.

nit wit

Moron, he has advantage of his positions in power when he become a a president. Before that he was nothing and there ware no ways for him to make real money.

Once again moron, the KGB officer was unable to make any real wealth because he had no access to the oil and gas money. Only when Putin has become a president, he started gaining over the biggest oil and gas companies (e.g. UKOS etc). Before that time (within about 10 years after perestroyka) he was just nothing.

yeah, this shrewd kgb agent didn't use his position and connections to make money off the fucked up russian economy and *recovery*.

i'm saying it started then dipshit, jesus fucking christ.

you think he just walked in from the outside? you fucking dimwit. no, he used his status and connections as kgb.

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs44/f/20...NoKurayami.jpg

This is the exact part of text you have to read from:

All his positions before that time (including the Prime Minister chair) were just nothing to make money from. Furthermore, he has started to make his wealth (yes I mean real money) in 2004 only when he got rid of big players such as Berezovsky (media), Gusiksky (media), Khodorkovsky (oil) etc. You know nothing about my country. Admit it already.

P.S. Why do I reply to all these stupid posts of a clueless ass-clown?

His connections in KGB were worth nothing too. There are only people that made his life: Anatoly Sobchak, Boris Yeltsin and Boris Berezovsky. They all had no relation to KGB and they all had the main role in making him a president. Please quit your bullshit about KGB (dissolved in 1991) and perestroyka (ended in 1991 too).

so nothing he did prior to 2004 allowed him to set that up?

do you just fail at understanding his power positions in the kgb etc contributed to his acuumulation of money?

oh, i get it now, you've never made any real money have you? so you fail at seeing how these sort of relationships and such get established over years, they are not something you just walk into.


you've never made much money for yourself and are unaware how that happens.

Putin finally resigned from the active state security services with the rank of Lieutenant colonel on 20 August 1991 (with some attempts to resign made earlier),[41] on the second day of the KGB-supported abortive putsch against Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev.[42] Putin later explained his decision: "As soon as the coup began, I immediately decided which side I was on", though he also noted that the choice was hard because he had spent the best part of his life with "the organs".[43]

umm, power play, from wiki. not that you will get that.

Read my post above. There are only 3 names. Learn who those people were and what exactly they've done for Putin.

can't hide what you don't see

"Peacekeeping" forces are typically sent to a 3rd party and often put in harm's way to enforce a given situation on the ground. To give a rough analogue, the UN peacekeepers (UNPROFOR) on the ground in the Yugoslav war were regularly attacked even while distributing humanitarian aid. Yet in Russia's view the didn't give the respective member nations of those attacked peacekeepers carte blanche to bomb or invade, and even after years of this they strongly strongly objected to the NATO air campaign against the Serbs (for the record I had mixed feelings about it too).

In South Ossetia the Georgians got rolled and then Russian forces proceeded crossed the border to enter soveriegn Georgian territory, did amphibous landings in Georgia elsewhere, sunk completely unrelated naval vessels, occupied cities, etc. Again I'm not even saying it was 'wrong' per se - was definitely effective - just that there was zero asking for international consensus for invading an independent country.

But like sambucas, I get that you're very proud of your nation. I remember other threads where you're like "Russian pilots are best fight pilots in world, blah blah blah" and various other strongly pro-Russian (and anti-gay if I recall) sentiment, so your response is to be expected.

Real real sorry I questioned your Great Leader Putin. Carry on with your bad selves.

:1orglaugh And here I thought we had a truce! You just can't help yourself, can ya?

you seem like you think ur a smart guy

how does resorting to insults work in your world?

again, why would they *do it* for putin? cuz he's the new guy? right.

no, because he's already established himself as a power player. you think they let hiim profit in the 10s of billions of dollars because he's some new guy to the russian power player network?

hardly. he's a shrewd and cunning player

Nah, I just like discussing this crap is all. Not sure what you mean by the insult thing though.

well, in fear of being perceived to be 'squabbling' and utilizing 'one liners', ill mosey on

No, there is not. No one needs permission from the UN or any other organization before attacking.

Who pays to money to who? That's rather vague, isn't it?

We have an international court to handle legal issues, not warfare. NATO is a defense pact; The US does not need permission from NATO to invade Cuba.

For declaring war, perhaps, but not a military action. Did Carter get mission to send in a military mission in Iran? Did Reagan get permission to bomb Libya? Did Obama get Congressional permission to send a military force into Pakistan? Did we get permission from the UN? Did we notify the UN? Or NATO? Or anyone for that matter?

One country does not need permission from another country to attack anyone.