True, but for me, as a matter of principle, it is exactly the same. The person willing to steal a penny is just waiting for the opportunity to steal a million bucks.

Since you are a big partner with manwin, people should take what you say with a grain of salt. They could have offered you more traffic/perks for you defending them here.

Maybe their business hasn't hurt yours, but I know it has to thousands of others.

lol. You are completely clueless if you think they would do anything like that. They run on numbers, not ego.

We work hard to convert that traffic just like anyone else. There is no secret to it. No private deal made in the shadows. Not making any false statements and not seeking any favors. You can take what I say whatever way you want to but don't go making ridiculous assumptions and casting inane assertions to try and make a point.

There are also many webmasters that have profited from that traffic. The ones that have failed to profit from it typically are ones that haven't learned how to play "moneyball" and use statistical analysis rather than gut instincts to improve and succeed.

First of all that would be an unsustainable business model, as they can't generate any revenue themselves to at least control costs.

Secondly, free hosting has been well available when I started in the business. I am not after the people spending 5 bucks a month for hosting. We facilitate people that do want to spend money for reliable hosting as they recognize it as being a mission critical part of their own business.

I always wondered why straight porn didn't copy gay porn on this stuff. The lawyers and everyone are there and ready to go.

And the fact you can't see that is why you are as ignorant as Farrell.

I NEVER stole anything. I have already stated (for those of you new to the internet) what we did as a TGP.

My TGP's were among the cleanest in the world. We not only never stole a single thing...but we made damn sure there were never any redirects or blind links, etc.

Everyone who was actually making money online in those days knows our reputation.

What Manwin is doing is not even CLOSE to a TGP that links to hosted galleries. I don't even know how you people can say that me linking to hosted galleries from sponsors equates in any way, shape, or form to stolen full scenes on a tube site.

It's goddamned ridiculous. And if you had a lick of common sense you would realize how much money we made FOR the programs we promoted. And you would remember how big this industry was during that time period.

But I guess that a guy like Farrell finds himself unable to compete these days without running to Manwin for traffic generated by the stolen content of others.

So he will call ME a "thief" and try to rewrite history to justify his bullshit.

And then ignorant people like you will chime in from the peanut gallery.

Good times.

You picked up on part of it. Just read 5 posts here and then 5 posts at THE main gay porn webmaster board and the difference is marked. Different worlds.

I believe as people develop their businesses and themselves as adults they should evolve.

It is a sad state for example if you speak or write at 50 or 60 the same way you spoke or wrote at 17. Same with business - for me. Some people realized in the 90's that some things are unethical, sleazy or borderline illegal, and they stopped doing them. However, many realized the same things back then and laughed and have kept doing them through today.

Today, "whats mine is mine and whats yours is mine" seems to be an accepted/applauded/admired way to do things.

People turning a blind eye to this and participating in this has killed this business. Tube model and a weak DMCA law prompted people with nothing to offer except other people's hard work and dick pills, to flourish.

People's/Manwin's downfall comes from the fact that their arrogance led them to believe they could destroy their competition and then profit from the aftermath through content theft.

Sorry, tube traffic disagrees.

If straight adult had the leadership and ethics exhibited in gay adult this would be a much different board and business.

Would you care to share a bit more about what the gay industry has done differently? I've only ever promoted straight porn so I'm rather ignorant on the subject.

I've enjoyed reading your posts in this thread

If you put Farrell alone in a room with a computer and 16 pics he would have zero clue how to monetize them in a legitimate way. For him, that's where Fabian comes in sans the legitimate.

Speaking from experience, the gay companies that were comrades in the Acacia Defense Group were stand up companies run by savvy, professional, and resolute individuals, people that could be counted on when things there were at the bleakest and costliest. So my hunch is that it has less to do with faith in their abilities than it has to do with lack of communication and coordination between the hetero and gay sides of the business due mostly to... you guessed it... latent and blatant homophobia on the straight side of the equation.

People need to realize that asking help from gay companies to fight piracy doesn't automatically make anyone a butt pirate. :2 cents::winkwink:

Just speak with Dominic Ford at Porn Guardian or Marc Randazza, an attorney who represents gay clients, among others - they are on the front lines.

I was working for a client back in 2010 who has a broad spectrum of content. Some of it being gay video. I had to check the gay boards. The main board I discovered was an amazing place for learning, business and friendships. I have not been back in awhile. I don't really promote much gay stuff these days. Maybe I should.

As a webmaster and consultant I have only found one straight board with the same caliber of people. I won't say which board.

There will be toilets in excess in the Manwin offices now?
This thread misses Paul Markham (but this thread only!)

Thanks for the reply

I don't know what boards you're referring to. I spend very little time on forums these days, there is very little worth reading

Pretty big breeches talk coming from someone we caught cookie stuffing our program like a low down yellowbelly, cowboy.

None of the big tgps were "clean" in the beginning. You made money for people that were blatantly violating trademarks until they had to clean up. It is just the way it was. I don't hold it against you so don't get so defensive. You were big on CE for example and they had multiple lawsuits and settlements arise over copyright, including a settlement and gag order on us, got dinged by FTC big time more than once, and blew up a fair share of banks. Do I need to go any further?

It just makes me think you are more guilty because you are missing my point so widely trying to paint yourself as the hero, savior, and genius of tgp.

Many folks also refer to the "golden age" as the days of the "wild wild west" where it was pretty much anything goes. Why are you trying to re-write history? Were you really a playa then playa?

You are a fucking liar asshole.

I iframe the tour of every site on my little tube that goes with the video.
I COULD just put up an AFF iframe. But instead I choose to promote the actual site.
You don't understand what "cookie stuffing" means.

I've had it with your stupidity. Just keep doing whatever you have to that will keep yourself afloat. I guess in your case (like many others), it's financing piracy.
Go Fuck Yourself.

You COULD try to look less guilty but the more details you disclose the more it becomes obvious.

Now I am getting emails from people that wish to remain anon that are saying you way overstate your role at Ampland.

Go ahead and call me a liar but you have no proof; whereas, I have your own words on a public forum. First you had to "clean up" then you were always clean. Which was it? You promoted those programs that went over the line back in the day or you didn't? Can't be almost pregnant.

You know, usually when someone resorts to just saying F-U in an argument it means they don't have anything more intelligent to say to persuade his or her point.

By the way, I am truly sorry that you can't figure out how to convert tube traffic. I would have figured that with all your genius and experience that it would be flipping sign ups like McDonalds flips burgers. Just don't be all sore at me because we don't have the same problem.

Whatever man.

Go ahead and attack me and my integrity. And brag about how well you are converting tube traffic built on the backs of stolen content. Good for you.

Sorry to hear that you have to resort to that to stay in business. So far I haven't had to.

As for "emails" you are getting. I could care less. I know what I have done.

And I'm calling you a liar straight up. You never "caught" me cookie stuffing because I don't.

You don't know what "cookie stuffing" is. Hell, I'm surprised you can even post on a forum.

I have had you act like a fucking jackass to me on this forum over and over and over. And I have done my best to not get crazy about it out of respect.
But you don't seem to have any. So I no longer care.

Fuck you. And I'll tell you that to your face the first chance I get. :)

This thread was Robbie-ized.

Hahahaaha :1orglaugh

Not by my choice man. It seems like everytime anybody says something negative about piracy...they get crucified.

Suddenly I am the bad guy and am being attacked. Makes no sense to me.

Farrell is the asshole coming on here our of nowhere and calling me a thief and trying to disparage all the things I've ever done and proud of. I suppose he's trying to make himself feel better. Doesn't matter to me.

I said earlier how I felt about it...before he started attacking me personally and trying to justify his own bullshit.

But like y'all pointed out...it just "Robbie-ized" the thread and takes the attention off the subject matter. Which is exactly what it's supposed to do I guess.

I have no interest in your argument - but I too am constantly amazed how the tide has turned.

The apologists for piracy seem to be the most vociferous. Whenever anyone tries to do anything about piracy you get Dame wittering on about how it will never stop it so you should not try, and now its ok for Manwin et al to make millions form piracy because everyone has done something dishonest at least once in their lives. It really is such bullshit.

A) It is not ok for me to come into your house and steal everything you have because you once used a pirated piece of software. Not legally or morally.

B) Not acting against piracy because it wont cure the world of copyright infringement is not an argument. Murder was not eliminated by creating laws to punish murderers. This is a truly ridiculous argument.

C) Fabian leaves Manwin to a reported large payout. It does not mean he was a creative genius that invented technologies and processes that opened new markets and changed the way adult services are monetized. The reality is he headed up an enterprise that was already working the DMCA loop whole on an industrial scale before he took over. Under his leadership he failed in his attempt to legitimize the company, and his ego became his downfall.

Lets get things into perspective.

That's why I'm quoting you on this :thumbsup

QFT ?


:winkwink:

Well, this thread got jacked a few pages ago, so my quote cant be any worse :Graucho

The fact that they protect their stuff should be able to be moved to the straight side. That is the crazy part, the whole system is in place but not used.

MindGeek word of the day

Funny, because most programs I know frown on 0x0 iframes and clearly state using them is a TOS violation. You are just pissed because I called you out and let you demonstrate what a hypocrite you truly are.

Feel free to tell me to fuck off. Call me an asshole. Take a swing at me if it makes you feel better next time you see me. None of that will change the facts. I didn't come out of nowhere. I just spoke up because I didn't want you to keep throwing stones in your glass house.

Personally, I think you should be apologizing at this point but go ahead and keep getting more vindictive if it makes you feel better.

That is exactly what cookie stuffing is: a 1x1 frame.
I didn't do that. I had your tour in a 700 x 1000 frame so that surfers could see the tour and I linked to your site right above the vid and right below it and then below that with the tour.

Also Far-L, I have written you a small novel in the form of a private message on here so that this stupidity will no longer thread-jack this subject.

Wow, at that size you wouldn't think it would be so hard to find. :1orglaugh

The funny thing to me is: people who monetize from tubes (of which I am one) can't seem to monetize any other way. Yet those who do NOT monetize via tube submissions seem to be doing fine and won't go near tubes. Why is that? Why can't we all get along heh?

Seriously tho: I would love - repeat: L-O-V-E love love love - to get traffic from SEO. Or from any other source of traffic. Perhaps I will "work" my affiliates more but many (who are left) DO promote my sites on their Blogs, free sites, TGPs etc but still the sales come mostly from tube submissions. I'd like to do BOTH but it seems to be difficult to do so. Maybe it's just me. LOL

Once your stuff is on the tubes there is no other way. I went the other route and do everything BUT tubes. Ratios and sales improving for all lines of business each and every month. You have to personally work at it. Tube traffic is a joke to content owners. A bad joke.

I promote one Japanese program that viciously keeps stuff off the tubes and file lockers.
My ratios for all time are under 1:350 and last two months 1:202. What are your ratios on the tubes?

Maybe hire an in-house staff for working your sites. Try shooting unique content.

funny what people take as metaphor, and what people take as literal

I am in GFY just to read the Manwin/Fabian posts

It's amazing how many sponsors still don't get this. Of course I doubt you are saying 100% no sales any other way but it is common sense. If you give it all away for free or most of it your other sales will suffer eventually at some point.

From observation I saw a common pattern:

1. Piracy causes sales to slip overall.
2. Affiliate sales decrease.
3. Sponsor gives in and starts a tube campaign with long videos.
4. Sponsor sees "success" and thinks "Oh boy! Free sales!"
5. Affiliate sales begin radically declining at an accelerated pace now.
6. Sponsor starts seeing diminishing returns from tube campaigns.
7. Affiliate sales are almost non-existent now
8. Sales from tube campaigns further decline, diminishing returns.
9. Sponsor goes out of business

I think part of that reason is that there have been a lot of sponsors who produced template pay sites as if they where a factory.
It became easier to produce a new pay site every 2 weeks with 100 hosted galleries / 50 promo videos than actually building and maintaining a couple of websites.
One of the reasons was that many affiliates switched to automated promotion tools, auto import galleries and videos. all build on templates etc. so it obviously would but convert.

it's not the free content that is the main thing hurting sales, it's when you start promoting sites being blindfolded.

You are correct about that. Not 100% but programs with tube deals end up kicking affiliates in the nuts. I said that first when pimproll rolled out their tubes. Now you have affiliates in 10-2013 asking for sponsor listings who do not work with tubes. Evidence is pretty much there. Your 1-9 sums it up well.

Naw, I met an old guy at a Japanese market the other day. He said he used to pay then he discovered xhamster. He said "no need to pay any more right?"

Times that a few hundred million and you have today's sales.

I have not really seen that being the case. From my point of view, if you can convert tube traffic you can convert anything. Also, at least from our experience, it is important to have a balance of organic, SEO, and affiliate marketing. You never want all your eggs in one basket... as we have had to learn the hard way more times than I care to admit to:2 cents:

Hmmm ..... ummm ..... yeah ..... http://m2.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/1119567-spam-sponsors-channels-user-uploaded-tubes.html