I thought so too then I watched a bunch of Everton's games. He can score but isn't great.

So jealous of Liverpool. Having one of our castaways and the biter.

Thanks and that's great news. Glad to hear you are doing better. Man the last time I saw you I think was sleazy's vegas magic show. You had a blonde with you. That's an eternity ago isn't it.

Ville Franche. I think I have pictures on FB of the house

300lbs bench was awesome. I really worked hard for it and really psyched myself up for it for 4 weeks. My old high was 265. We did a Dan John routine that increased my strength like never before. Huge sense of accomplishment. Making money is fun, online success is fun but I still really love and get off on physical accomplishments. Be it working out or winning a tournament in a sport. I love the challenge of competing in something where money plays no role in the outcome.

I froze. Before his talk started I was waiting for my wife to come out of the ladies room and he was walking by me and stopped to shake my hand. I was stunned. I shook it and he walked off. Then afterwards we got to meet him and he was really nice. I've never seen a person have a room of 500 people and take the time to make sure each and every person knew he appreciated them being there. Very humble and very down to earth. I've had email exchanges with him in the past but didn't bring any of it up. I chickened out.

I'm probably not the best person to comment on what direction adult is heading in 2014. I've been out of the loop for close to three years and haven't seen any real numbers in that time. So I may be a little bit of a dinosaur right now. So take what I say with a grain of salt that said take what most people say with a grain of salt :winkwink:

I think one thing that has happened more and more over the past 5 years is the gap between the industry Upper Class - Middle Class and - Lower class is widening. I know when i sold the Middle class of our industry was becoming the lower class and the upper class seemed to just keep getting bigger. The upper class can buy success. I don?t see that trend changing. In my opinion there are no fast and easy answers to success online right now. They all require at the very least long hard work. I remember spending very late nights with my wife making galleries BigBreastLovers. It would take us 4 to 5 hours to make a gallery (we worked hard to make them sales machines). We?d upload and list the gallery and within the first day have 75 signups to it from our site alone. Those days are long gone in many ways. Mostly in the way that I don?t think you can spend 5 hours on a project and see instant (and huge) results on it tomorrow. The 100m sprint is over. It?s now a marathon. The hard thing is affiliates can?t always afford to run a marathon. Many of them have to make money today to survive and cover their bills. That has prevented many of them from being able to maneuver and find something new imo.


If I were an affiliate I would try a few things.
#1 I would make sure my earnings were diversified across a few markets. Don?t rely on just pay sites for your earnings. I would think ahead and think about what sectors of the industry are doing well today and which ones will do well tomorrow. Be sure you are starting to making money with them. I think Cams and Dating have held up well over the past few years. I think any affiliate that has figured out how to make money in either or both of those has probably held up quite well these past few years.

#2 much like number one don?t rely on one way to make money. If you rely 100% on banner advertising, or 100% on gallery spots it?s a mistake. Diversify. Think of the last 5 years of the web and how much things have changed. Think the next 2 years (probably 1 year) will change just as much as the previous 5. The web operates at warp speed. Things are not slowing down. Diversify your methods of selling as well.

#3 Try new things. It?s important to try to pick up on what?s happening and where things are going. You don?t have to be the first but you have to try to be aware of the direction things are going. Spend a little bit of time each week to keep up to date with what new things are being done and what trend setters are doing.

#4 try to control your destiny. I started by owning traffic networks. By being in that position I was able to start Twistys. I didn?t need any affiliates i was my own #1 affiliate and always was. If you have traffic find a way to control it and for it to be yours. If you do then you can make moves as markets shift. Large tgps would have been smart to use their traffic base to start tubes when tubes came out. Even if it were just as a test. You have to be in the game to win. If you are sitting on the sidelines you are just going to watch the parade go by.

#5 Work on getting a following. Whether it be on Twitter, Tumblr, Instagram. Social networks are there and available for you to use to your advantage. Start building a following today. Engage with every person that sends a tweet or msg to you. Work it. It won?t be a lot of work but by starting now you may find yourself with 1000, 2000, 5000 followers in a year from now. And concentrate on real numbers. 1 real follower is better than 50,000 fake ones. Don?t get too hung up on numbers. They don?t mean much anymore.

#6 follow technology and don?t be afraid to try to implement it into your product. Internet speeds increased, BW costs dropped and it results in video usage exploding. As all of this was happening if you were an affiliate that did not jump on board the trend you got left behind in the dust unless your target market clearly preferred images or text over video.

#7 behind the scenes run your operation as if you were a big business. Every month make sure your accounting is tight. Make sure all your legal and paperwork documents are in order. Make sure you know every little detail of your business. Build relationships with the people you work closely with. Whether it be programs, hosts, whatever. Ask them for a better deal. Be honest about it. Don?t ask for the sake of asking. If an affiliate legitimately approached me and said look i?m just trying to survive what can you do to help out. I?d try my best. I offered free hosting to a bunch of guys that approached me that way. I never looked at what they did with the hosting. They were good affiliates and I had full trust in them. If making an extra 3% or 5% would make a huge difference then approach the companies you are close with and ask for it. Offer to sign an NDA and tell them you just want to stay in business and the extra dollars you make you?ll do everything in your power to make it back tenfold in return for the favour. If you say it mean it. You won?t be able to use that line often and the people that would consider it will know if you are bs?ing them or not.

Thanks same to you! I just answered another affiliate question. Let me know if that answers yours or if you want more detail. You can post here, pm me or email :winkwink:

Shit I had missed that before my last post. Check it out and see if I answered or if you want more just ask

That's a hard question. I'll have to think. One guy for sure is Rick from TheBestPorn and MyPorn. He's definitely at the top of the list.

2004 man, that is way back, we where kids back then :winkwink:

Hey Jigga!

Long time no talk old friend. How?ve you been?

That?s a great question. It?s not easy. I think it?s different for everyone. Some people have huge aspirations and goals and they keep gunning for them. I remember often going to dinner with someone or golfing with someone and at the end of it thinking wow what?s wrong with me I don?t want it as bad as that guy does. I don?t think there is anything wrong with that. You just have to know what your expectations and goals are and work accordingly.

I will say this towards the end it was definitely a struggle of mine and played a role in how easy it was to let go. A few years earlier we had been approached to sell and at that time I wasn?t ready. I just felt there was too much I hadn?t tried, too much I hadn?t done with the business to sell. I still had fire. I wanted more and i still had the fire. Fast forward to when we did sell and we were about to have a 2nd child, we were dealing with major banking problems that would force us to completely change our company structure, I was dealing with some staffing issues. My energy was so low. I didn?t want to deal with the crappy parts of running a business anymore. The fire wasn?t burning as strong as it needed to be.

I?ve dealt with both. One beauty of having staff is being able to step back sometimes and rely heavily on them so you can get re-charged and fired up for more.

This industry is a grind and it can definitely take it?s toll.

aww did mine get deleted?

Fire away

easier said than done. i went from working long hours seven days per week to working much less. business is suffering a bit as a result but its hard. it seems it would be much easier juggling business and family if you've already been largely successful. i make a living but just making a living is not what i define as successful.

Well, part of the problem is your own self-definition of your success. "Making a living" IS a great success - when you can do so on your own terms (work when you want, how you want, etc).

I think if you looked at your life how it really was and is you'd reconsider your situation and realize you are, indeed, very successful (and I congratulate you).

Now, how to "ramp it up".....LOL

Thanks Shap! Im in a bad spot and working to get out of it.
**My goal is to earn $100k by the end of December in 2014. is this possible?

How I was going to do it:

I have 5 dating websites.
2 mainstream sites - older people (like senior friend finder) and Christian.
2 sites for men who like to dress as women
1 for gay hookups

which one would you focus on, or would you focus on promoting all 5?

what would you do to promote them and get them off the ground?
I know you started from nothing and worked your tail off to build an empire and I want to do the same. I dont know *exactly* how to spend my 10 hours a day building my empire

I also have $5k in savings I can use to start promoting and get things moving quicker.

Or I could do something besides dating, but I *really* want to hit 100k by the end of 2014 and get my life back on track.

I have no distractions and can work 16 hour days if I need to. this is more important to me than friends or anything to distract me.

Thanks Shap!:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

Yeah, I think it's been like 10 years since we talked. I'm doing good on a personal level with family stuff keeping me busy all the time. Not so much on the business side where it's been a challenge since 2009 and my motivation is running empty in adult. Hehehe, not that jackass kid walking around Vegas in a scarf anymore, lol.

Still talk to Brent almost every day. If you ever wanna talk hit me up at thestockblog at gmail.

About the fire part, I think you nailed it. Everyone has their own "content" point and that's what fascinates me about certain people such as yourself that just keep pushing even when they really don't have to anymore. Anyway, good on ya for getting out when you did especially if you didn't feel it anymore, we should all wish to be so lucky, especially when you can get out and still be set for life.

He'd be on my list as well.

Am I missing something or have you still not answered the Martin St. Louis question? Because frankly that one has me stumped as well. :winkwink:

Besides that...

I have always admired Twisty's success at establishing a brand identity. What brands do you think successfully establish branding, and if you feel like it, name some you think should or could do better in that department?

Also, I seem to recall that you played hockey... what level did you attain in your prime? Do you still take the ice competitively?

I guess I was late with my question...

I'll answer just chilling on the weekend :)

Hey Shap, hope you and your family are doing well! You've always been an inspiration.

Here are my questions. :)

1. How has your wife handled things post-sale in comparison to yourself? You were always a great team, so I'm sure it's affected you both in different ways.

2. Can you tell us a bit about what startups you've invested in, or if not in detail, in general terms? Why have you been disappointed?

3. What are you waiting for? Are you hoping an idea finds you, or are you more likely to find something and do the approaching?

4. Where's home now?

5. Did you ever lie about what you did for a living?

6. If you could buy Twistys back right now for 50% of what you paid for it, would you do it?

Other big players seemed to think you missed out on some money because you pushed the babe niche. Yes I know you also were big in other areas with Gaytube and your traffic networks but your flagship site Twistys was in the babe niche.

What exactly did you do to make that niche so successful where other players just gave up and pushed only hardcore?

Hi Shap,

I don't have any questions for you but always admired how humble you are. I remember back in the old days doing a revshare deal on galleries posted to your TGPs like bigbreastlovers. You paid every dollar we made together and never missed a check. I will never forget this, especially considering the amount of scammers at the time (dialers, Snow etc) Much respect!

When you launched Twistys I was baffled as to why you would choose such a name for a babe niche site. In all honesty I thought the branding sucked, but you proved me wrong and built the site and brand name to great success. You worked hard and remained humble, and deserved the resulting success. All the best in the future buddy! :thumbsup

Why does 1+1=2 ?

Hi Sloane! Wow we go way back. I remember the 50/50 gallery split. That was such a good idea. If only we had a cash program at the time. We tried to pitch it to a few big companies but nothing ever came of it. It's all about timing.

The name had personal significance and my wife has always liked the discreet non porn site names. There is a long list of success stories that have no porn reference in the name.

Thanks and all the best to you buddy :thumbsup

That's a fair and valid point. I think we did so well with Twistys that it probably stopped us from going into another market that could have been far more lucrative. We knew babes was a hard sell but we managed to do it. There were probably some much bigger numbers possible had we been in another niche.

I think what helped us be successful with the niche was first we weren't JUST babes. We had the highest quality girls online but we also had hardcore on the site. Having a mix of the two was huge especially since none of our babe competitors would touch hardcore. Whether it was a moral choice, a belief that their site was cleaner or whatever. They chose to stay as far away as they could from hardcore where we embraced it. I think that helped out.

Another thing most of our babe competitors tried to keep their content bottled up and hidden in the members area. What is the use of great content if nobody knows you have it? We did the opposite. We made every picture, every set, every piece of content we owned (and had rights to do so) available to affiliates to promote the site with. That was huge. There is a branding aspect that people take for granted online. Just because a gallery does 0:50,000 don't think you didn't get any sales from it. Especially if those surfers are seeing the same thing over and over and over again. The name gets out there.

Hi Clay.

Alright so first question for you. Why do you have 5 sites planned? Of all niches and all sites which do you identify with the most? Which do you think you understand best?

My background is building products that I feel deliver quality to the end user. I know a lot of dating $$$ is based on smoke and mirrors approach if that is the angle you are taking I can't really comment on that.

Based on your niches listed I get the feeling you are trying a machine gun approach and hoping one of them hits. The problem I fear you may run into is how will you translate what you learned from a successful mature christian dating site to a gay hookup site. The two have very little if anything in common. I don't think one product would work for both. You will have to cater to each market and those in particular are very very different.

Also when you say you are in a bad spot is 100k a must by december? Or can you make say 20k by decemeber 2014 with things set up to make 200k december 2015?

My best advice is to find one thing you believe you understand really well. Something you GET and try to build on that. Be smart with the money you have. I get the feeling you probably don't want to blow that.

Btw if you have skill and talent and you have 16 hours a day at your disposal maybe look to work for someone. Align yourself with someone or a company that you think you can help (and in return maybe they have something that can help you). That way if half of your time is spent earning guaranteed $$$ then the other half you work on building your empire. That way if empire doesn't work out in 2014 you still have the $$$ from the salary. If empire takes off you can quit the job. Could be win win

Try different approaches. One thing that worked really well for us was trying things that were completely different from what others were doing.

Do you know what type of affiliates you are after?

Also, how much would getting new affiliates be worth to you? I think we ran a promotion or an enticement campaign once that offered 100% revshare for the first month you used TwistysCash. I had to prove we converted and retained well. We didn't get 5000 people to sign up but we sure got a few new guys that were steady affiliates from that point forward.

I would think outside the box and try to come up with ideas that will bring affiliates to you. I'd also go after guys you want to have as affiliates. If you see a gallery poster on the hun that you'd like to have on your side find his contact info and make him an offer. Don't think offering a little more than usual will be enough. Remember you are asking them to take a leap of faith and try you. So offer as much as you can. You have nothing to lose.

On that note I always wanted to try running a 100% affiliate payout program (as long as processing fees were deducted) and still be profitable.

I replied! Definitely think Marty should be on the team :/ Shame.

Branding is a tricky thing. No doubt Bang Bros nailed it dead on with their branding. I think they set the bar. They are the one really hardcore site that managed to take their brand mainstream. Very impressive. It's hard to say who's done a bad job at it without knowing the numbers. I could say site x is shit at marketing and they may have 20,000 members :winkwink:

Not playing hockey anymore. I played a high junior level. Took up Tennis last month. It's my new pet project for 2014 to get really good at it. I've never played before but so far the first 6 lessons have been great.

Shap, never conversed or exchanged messages with you before, 2 questions.


1. Piracy is very difficult to measure in terms of the direct effects, I've had webmasters argue that it helped establish their brand; the argument loses sway when I see site catalogs (sometimes 100-200GB) indexed on sites. This isn't limited to movies as I've seen this done with still image sets as well.
Before you sold, did you take piracy pretty personal? I ask as people, especially those that produced the content themselves (at least some of it), it hits home a lot more.

2. Exercise for a workaholic, I try to get our everyday, I think it's essential. 3x a week I'll hit the gym for 60-90 minutes. The other 4 days I've found running 1-2 miles in the neighborhood to flush my circulatory system out.
When you were grinding yourself, how did you fit exercise into your schedule. Some jobs may not require as much if they are physical, but when you are literally sitting on your ass most of the day.... what do? :)

SOCKS! Man I just remembered I didn't get back to your email :( Sorry.

1. Interesting question. I think probably better. She hasn't had a day of boredom in a long time. She finds a way to busy herself every day. I always refer to her as the busiest non working person I know.

2. I invested in Shyp, Circa, and Demeure. They are all hands off investments. I hate that. I have a lot I can add to a project. I haven't really dug too deep into making investments which would include being involved. I've been happy in the position I'm in but if the right opportunity to invest and help out or just help out a startup came up I'd be up for it. My problem is I have zero motivation right now to chase after it.

3. That's a good question. I don't know. I think right now I'm in a comfortable situation where I'm not bored enough to chase after it. I've always been the type of guy that likes to do my own thing and never ask anybody for any help. So part of that comes with never really chasing after people for an opportunity. However having an adult background that I don't advertise makes it that I'm pretty much an unfindable person lol so I'm well aware that nobody is going to be banging on my door anytime soon.

4.London UK

5. Only very few people know what we did. Mainly because we have two young children and I would hate for any doors to be closed for them because of what we did. The adult industry is great but to those on the outside it's foreign and they don't understand it. Very rarely can you come out and say to a 40 year old lady I ran a massive porn company and expect she'll think very highly of you.

6. Absolutely. GayTube as well :thumbsup

1. You can't take it personally. It's a major piss off but it is what it is. It isn't limited to our industry. It's smart to have a strategy to minimize it but you can't lose sleep over it and you can't make it too about it. You could spend your entire life fighting it and worrying about it but that won't make you any more money and will in fact probably make you substantially less. All of my close friends download music, movies and tv shows illegally. I have numerous family members that do it at alarming rates. If hollywood can't win the battle it's ridiculous to think any of us can win it.

Towards the end I think we had a pretty good policy. We set out a game plan for a period of time. Our solution was to use one of the content removal companies and see what they could do. They handled it for us. At that point we stopped worrying about it. Worrying would solve nothing and just feel so shitty lol.


2. I've had battles with this. I would say when we were in our really long hour days I was really bad about getting enough exercise. Only in the past few years did I get it in order. 3 days a week i'd spend my lunch hours at the gym with a personal trainer (and eat at my desk afterwards). Then I'd play a competitive sport 1 to 3 times a week. I really liked working out with a personal trainer because it gave me no time to think about work and it gave me no out to no show. If I didn't show up I'd still be paying for a service I didn't get and there was no way I'd do that :) I can honestly say my 60 minute workouts with the trainer and my hockey games 1 to 3 times a week were possibly the only times I would not think about work at all. I always have chatter going on in my head and being pushed to my physical limit is the only way i can turn it off or tune it out.

Thanks Shap! Im so happy you wrote.
Yes you're right I'm taking a machine gun approach and the niches were spread out to try to cover everything, but I see now that's not the best thing to do.

I did focus on 1 site the past 3 years ago and that site is bringing me in about $2,500 a month (enough for me to scrape by, move to a more business friendly area and set up a new shop).

The last 2 years I didnt focus on any adult site because I worked on a new mainstream startup and moved to California. The startup didnt work out so Im leaving and going to re-double my efforts on the adult site.
$100k isnt necessary, its just my goal.

Earning $20k by the end of 2014 would be fine and $200k by December 2015 would be life changing to me.
Im so excited. The startup failing was kind of a blessing. One of those sites I'm *very* good at enticing buyers because I know what they fantasize about and the exact triggers they want.
thanks Shap! You helped me

How old are you?

Besides Twistys, which website made you the best income?

Shap who are you?

37 :thumbsup

Easily GayTube. It was huge.

Answered earlier in the thread. Ran a bunch of sites a while ago. Twistys, Gaytube etc.

Shap, did you earn your million in the right time?

How did you get gaytube to take off when you're not gay and dont know anything about gays? serious question, did you hire gays to run it?
Or was it just the great name alone that got it to take off?

Im trying to learn from you how to promote. How you get a site from 0 to super nova, and you do it over and over again.