Where do you get the info that it is 10 times more expensive? That does not make sense. Not even 2 tmes more expensive would make a sense.

Because i run small tubes with the same advertising networks as big tubes and my cpm are ten times smaller than big tubes.

The reason might be because i don't have advertisers spending money on my sites and advertising networks taking a bigger share on smaller sites, but still, there is a big difference between cpm on small tubes and big tubes.

As a smaller tube, your inventory is most likely being sold as RON, which typically goes cheaper than traffic being sold on a "premium" site. This is where economies of scale helps a business on many levels by creating leverage for both costs and earnings.

Scale up.

For big tubes it's all about selling that shit traffic to other people.

If it was truly good traffic they would simply sign up for affiliate programs and slap their link codes to the appropriate sites for each vid like we all did (and made great money) from the beginning of online adult.

But they don't. Instead they offer the actual sponsor to be THEIR bitch by becoming a "content partner". And then they proceed to spam the page that the vid is on all to hell with pre-paid ad spots (where the real money is for them).

That's why you have to have a HUGE traffic tube to make huge money. It has nothing to do with selling porn. It's all about selling ad space.

And these days...they are all emulating Google for their biz model. You basically don't ever get a real ad on Porn Hub for instance. You instead "bid" for placement. Then your ad gets whatever placement it receives via rank of it's "bid" per view.

It's total bullshit for the people buying the ads. But I guess these days, if you can throw shit on the wall enough it will stick.

And at this point some people don't give a fuck if it took 100 million ad views...as long as they are able to get maybe 100 signups out of it, it's worth it. At least compared to the ZERO they would get without that ad spot.

Yes i know how it works. But i'm still wondering why advertisers don't buy ads on many non premium medium size tubes, 30k, 50k daily which have a way way lower cpm.

Because they don't see it like that. They see it as if they get a giant amount of ad views, they will still make more sales than they would on the smaller, more targeted tube.

(the "throw enough shit on the wall and see what sticks" method I talked about)

Harder to track the progress on such low quantities. Imagine a .5% CTR on a 30k site with a 6 banner rotation. That accounts for minimal traffic. Buyers need data.

If you want to sell your banners out right, let me know. I will likely pay you more than what you are making right now in RON.

mate, I like you and your posts, but sometimes you chat shit. What I am saying, in the interests of people earning more money, in this particular thread is: put as much effort into your own work as is being put into what some other guy, running some other tube, in some other niche, with some other (not so great) biz plan, guesstimating what he gets per click, how he should/shouldn't monetize, and on and on and on. This was to the OP, who has obviously spent time looking, and guesstimating.

I'm far from angry... I'm trying to point the OP into a better $ earner. That's biz... wasting time on what someone else is doing, in the hopes that it 'proves' that tubes don't make money, is tbh, a bit baffling to me. Why wouldn't you spend time looking at what DOES work, and trying to replicate that, than what you think doesn't? (I'm talking from the OP's pov here).

As for the namecalling and belittling, I assume you are referring to someone else.

But... all that said... you are right. It isn't down to me to make anyone see it's better to put their focus/effort/energy into something that will actually put money in their pocket. Consider me suitably chastised, and I'll go back to treating this place like the non-biz arena that it is :thumbsup

That is crazy and situation calls for direct ad sales.
You get X while big players get 10X. Plus broker fees etc buyers pays even more than 10X. You can approach buyers and offer them to buy for 3X or 5X. That is 2, 3 TIMES cheaper than what they pay. Definitely some would be interested... Even if you offer them to buy for 2X your revenue would double and buyers would still be paying more than 5 TIMES less than they pay for big tubes... WIN WIN.
Gap is tremendously too big to not be utilized. And too big to be fair, something is glitching there since small tube traffic is not worse than big tube traffic (ok maybe by a tiny margin) to receive 10 TIMES less money... It is just not right, no transparency..

makes my day

#50 Tubes wishing they didn't give it all away and they still had 2003 conversion ratios :thumbsup

Nope...because they don't have a clue about that. They weren't around. Most of them aren't even in the porn business. They are parasites.

And besides they are making way more money than they could have back then by doing their bidding for ad placements.

Only thing is...it's destroying the goose that laid the golden egg to begin with.

true, I started in 2003 and had fucking text tgps with 1/x, 1/xx, 1/xxx conversion rates max. Never had a ton of traffic but didn't need to as quality was insane. I still stick to the same quality over quantity just takes more work to accomplish these days as more shit traffic to filter out.

It seems to me that there is less and less porn being shot lately. I don't know this for sure but I don't see as many new sites opening up (or programs for that matter). What will happen to tubes when they can't be 'fed' at the rate they need to grow?

I'm not sure I'd call it 'chatting shit' but it is the 2nd time I misunderstood you and responded to you as if you were one of 'those' guys who I described in the post you were responding to above.

My apologies once again.

And I agree that spending time on what does work is a much better use of one's time. Those topics don't get much momentum unfortunately.

They're the very definition of business short sightedness.

mate it's all good, and *I* apologise for getting pissy :upsidedow been a hell of a long day, chuck in hot sticky weather, and I bite way too easily, even though I should know better :thumbsup

more joins = bigger payout also.

not to mention its way easier to test ads, sponsors and landing pages when you have shit ton traffic..

THIS is spot on, and a major concern for tubes (and the Industry as a whole). Now, truth be told, there has been more pornography filmed in the past ten years than anyone could possibly begin to see in fifty lifetimes. So: if it's "new to you" it may as well be new.

(There's a clue as to my business model, btw).

But since we live in this NOW culture, a disposable society, and are breeding an entire generation of impatient, tech-savvy kids, the writing is on the wall. When new porn productions drop to 10% of what they used to be, and the tubes are not receiving as many uploads as before, their whole momentum wil begin to slow. Don't worry, tubes aren't going anywhere but they will, in my estimation, "find their level" and it will be far below what it is today. This will happen, I believe, in the next 2-3 years. Then what? Good fucking question.

Tubes are good at spewing out wave after wave of videos, not presenting old retread content in a clever way. So they NEED Producers and Content Partners. They (think) they can't just load up their tubes with their own paysite content or old 1999 videos. There is a downside to everything, including relying on a constant stream of new content.

QFT :thumbsup :thumbsup

As a buyer, it's not worth the time and energy even tracking down the owner of some sites, let alone setting up a deal.

I also acted out of reflex and had a nutty day too.

Next ...

Even if he monetized at 10 times that - what does that give him? $4k/m for 1m uniques a month. Are we saying that having a staff with expertise, direct marketing deals, optimized traffic routing, extensive user data, and low cost infrastructure can monetize at 100 times the rate he could per unique? I can clearly see 10x, maybe even 20x but that still yields very down to earth numbers for even the biggest tubes.

So you are saying that most tube traffic is shit. That begs the question, are people who buy the ads making a profit. If so what is the margin?

I am not disagreeing with you at all as I don't deal with tubes so I don't know. I'm just curious as to what people make with the ads they buy there.

Also, don't tubes also promote cams? Do they make much with them?

So what's the solution for webmasters running 50k daily tubes? Looking for advertisers buying monthly prepaid ads?

If the site isn't stable yet and the webmaster is expecting a growth really soon, isn't there a way to get higher cpm instead of selling prepaid monthly ads?

There isn't any easy solution. You need more leverage. That's simply not enough traffic for buyers to be interested in. Buyers purchase traffic based on many minute variables. Once those variables come into play, the amount of traffic that any one person would want to buy from you gets less and less.

The best way to monetize would be to have your own miniature advertising sales network, but with a small group of sites that is just not feasible or worth your time. I would recommend that you focus on scaling and worry about the money after you have a substantial amount of traffic to sell.

Again, leverage. You need leverage. Without it, your options are quite limited.

I started making money after I stopped caring about money. I know that sounds bizarre, but it's true. And my friends that make good money have had the same experience. Focus on creating something great, something real, something that people actually want. It can be one really good site or it can be several mid-level sites, they can both work with the right amount of testing and experimentation. Once you have this "great" thing in place, the money is a byproduct.

You have a 50k tube, and that's great, but now you need to grow. Your options are: turn 50k into 500k, or make 15-20 50k sites. I recommend the former. You'll be able to focus more on creating one quality product and then you can use your own leverage (magic word) to not only grow your sites traffic, but also its income as you are then able to monetize because you have a quality, high-traffic site.

That's why most of the tubes are buying hundreds thousands of cj tube traffic daily...

So what have you been working on since you left Topbucks?

This is like watching children tell at the sky to stop the rain. Same stupid conversations for 10 years now and at the end of it all, the losers are still the losers and the winners are still the winners.... then just as now.

There weren't tubes 10 years ago. And babies still cry like they did 100,000 years ago, but things have changed. Some things change, some things remain the same.

That is true, I forgot about that ;)

Exactly. There has never been a mass give-away of entire scenes and entire members areas on this kind of scale. Whole different animal than ever before. Which is why the business is in such trouble over-all.

Robbie I ask you this because I know your business success, experience and wisdom in this industry:

Is there any hope or will the Race To Zero continue?

I don't know. Honestly, I thought that the DMCA law would have already been changed about 3 years ago and would have put an end to this kind of thing.

And then I also figured that having full hardcore movies for free would have outraged people with kids who don't want them to see that kind of thing and that would have stopped it 2 or 3 years ago.

Neither thing happened. So I'm at a loss.

Thats why people fail, they dont know how to mointize

You dont say

Try not to let what was thus far a rational debate where no one was conpaining about anything get in the way of your patented tripe and chronic assholishness.

That's my thinking, too. I'm amazed, with all the money at stake, more hasn't been done to correct these issues. Even tho I predict the tube business model will 'deflate' in a few years who really knows?

All I know is it's amazing we are hoping for DMCA laws to change or distracted, overworked and laxidaisical parents to "save' us. Wow.

Yep...and the classic punchline to the whole thing is that the govt. and religious groups are kinda DELIBERATELY allowing unfettered piracy and full scenes because they see that it's destroying the industry and slowing production overall.

They are LOVING this shit.

My guess is once there's practically nothing left, then they will swoop down with draconian laws for internet porn shown for free.

By that time, every person on the planet will already have been conditioned to NOT pay for it.

But I think that if you are one of the companies still standing when that all happens, you might do good.

Or Pornhub will simply change over to a $1 a month fee and go right on making more money than God.

With a tube like that I would have created my own creatives and run my own ads completely. That way you also bypass adblocker software as well.

Niche specific ads with that much traffic would have brought in much more money.

Because google has the worlds largest tube and a shitload of lobbyists