yeah, well, schools, infrastructure, police, hospitals... these things don't just pop up magically from thin air :winkwink:

why would you say that? I've only lived in canada but i'm interested in your thoughts on it. Its safe here sure but I don't exactly see the opposite in the other countries you say you have lived it.

I think its expensive to live/do business here myself.

how is the language barrier out there? I know czech isn't exactly the easiest language to learn.

i survived 8 years of living here without speaking Czech...

would be nice to speak it but especially in Prague you can get along without it.

and there are services like Foreigners.cz that help you with authorities etc

If you are reasonably healthy, reasonably hard working, and reasonably smart, then use this link:
List of countries by Human Development Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It will give you a pretty good indication of what kind of life quality you could enjoy in each country.

Ease of doing business:
Ease of doing business index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And of course, add your own preferences too if you really decide to move - Norway is pretty much No1 in anything you pick, but I wouldn't move there permanently even if you give me $10 mil, just way too cold for my taste.

Though Norway is a fucking expensive country. Your US dollar based earnings would diminish into air.

I already get masochistic satisfaction when trampling in the snow, so Norway would be just fine regarding that (but not any different).

I'm not starving over vat... but...

I look at it this way... if i don't have to pay the 21% vat (in Holland)... that would be thousands of euros in MY pocket... Sure....i can make myself believe that i calculate the vat to my customers... or i could higher my prices and let customers pay the vat (that would be the same... heh)... but then again.... if i can let customers pay more i really preferrably would have wanted that raise in MY pockets... not the governments pocket.
:)

But if that low salary is not enough to make a living, and you would constantly need to take more money out of the business for personal spending, then what are the tax issues? Or is it just a case of creative accounting?

It's the same in my country. Personal income from job is taxed higher (any bigger sums) than taking money as a dividents. Thus it is most beneficial to pay salary to itself up to break even point, and beyond that to take the money as a dividents.

So, "creative accounting" if you want to use that term, but totally legal. Idea is that you save the dividents, or pay those more often.

Sounds nice...

but in Holland, as a owner of a BV/company (similar as S.R.O in CZ) you have to pay yourself a minimum salary of 42.000 euros so you're automatically in all the high tax ranges:upsidedow

i don't know, i don't look at it this way.

i learned that i calculate my prices and my profits as net amount, VAT is added, paid by the consumer but it's not my money and i just pass it on.


there's no minimum here, our tax accountant back then said to make it reasonable.

in 8 years no one complained.

It's interesting... I think i'll dive into this some more during my next cz visit this december...

btw... by law... who is end-responsible for your bookkeeping in cz? The accountant or the business owner? In Holland the company owner is always end responsible... so having a shitty accountant who fucks it up can get you into real trouble... Finding a trustful accountant in a country where you don't speak the language feels a bit tricky...

with a great bus, i would live in some European country for sure

If you can connect with several long term experienced expats / local business owners this can get much easier, plus there are actually reputable services to find if you ask for enough refererence.

But yes, as far as I know you as a business owner are responsible, not the accountants (like in Russia for example).

There are pros and cons, I'd say it's always more bearable to live in CZ for a foreigner making money off the country than for a local or anybody dependent on making a living under the local conditions, I try to stay away from local business as much as possible.

My income is international, this is the place where I pay my insurance, pay my taxes, otherwise keeping the contact with authorities or locals at minimum. It's a safe and affordable place to live for sure.

I like EU

it really depends on how much you "need" and what you REALLY want out of life...knowing what this exactly is, is no easy task and few people really find out...

for example...you do not buy a ferrari because it has 600hp or titanium bolts, you buy it because you want people to envy you or get more pussy more easily or reasons like that...its not the F1 technology that made you dish out 300K it is the need to feel a certain way or be seen in a certain way...

the amount of this need in you, dictates how much you "need" to earn, in order to live your own personal soap opera where the ferrari makes up for the theoretical short dick...one may argue the "need for speed" as the reason for the 300K but a 10K suzuki gsxr rapes super car ass in every way shape and form, so logic dictates that the 300K is excessive (and GSXR rapes ass :thumbsup )...I have nothing against ferraris, this is just an example of extreme "need", you can put in the word yacht or bentley or whatever...

now that I have defined my view of "need" lets look at the business part of life...the richest man is often not the one with the most money but they one who needs the least...for example if you really really "need" a 300K ferrari then, ultimately, your happiness costs a lot...if you are happy with a 10K bike then your being happy costs exactly 30x less than the ferrari guy...

so in conclusion: if you have a huge penis, pick the country where life is the cheapest, don't be a chump and pay more $ for the same shit only in fancier packing, life is short, go where the cheap pussy is and enjoy :2 cents::thumbsup

You cannot compare the two really ...

• The USA has a uniform federal tax code. The EU tax rates are regulated by the nation-state member.
  
• Labor rates might vary 20% in the USA but the labor rates in Western Europe and Eastern Europe might vary 65%.
  
• The effective tax rates are lower in the USA for business.
  
• Comparing the costs of doing business in London as opposed to New York City might be comparable. There are no comparable American cities to Prauge, Budapest, Bucharest or Sofia.
  
• EU privacy laws and social attitudes toward most adult enterprises are better than the situation in the USA.
  
• Taxation, VAT in particular, is a negative in the EU -- your product's price is less competitive in many global markets.

the majority of the world wish they can migrate to the US, so the US. But a negative is the immigrants coming into the US the last 20 years suck, which is changing the demographics of the country.

can you explain? cause I dont see what you mean

I thought you were a native until I read this. You learn something new every day! :thumbsup

As a Dutch corporation we can sell in the USA without adding VAT -- selling in the EU we have a VAT obligation on all sales.

If you sell to a Dutch customer for example there is a VAT obligation if you sell to a USA customer there is no VAT obligation.


Now, if you are selling labor or finished product produced in a lower wage EU nation-state (read: Eastern Europe) then we are comparing apples and oranges just the same as USA sellers of goods produced in the neighboring nation of Mexico would not be a fair comparison (other than the possibility of doing so -- that is another subject altogether).

You can allocate that taxation to account for government subsidized prices or lower sales, use or VAT rates -- for example the VAT on plain food in The Netherlands is:

1. So, if i buy a Coke in The Netherlands my VAT is 6%
   
2. If I buy a Coke in Michigan, USA in the grocery my sales tax is 0% but if I buy a Coke at the zoo the sales tax of 6% is in the cost -- food and beverage in restaurants and concession foods (Kiosk) are taxible.

Where is the end cost less for a Coke?

1. A bottle of water at Schiphol Airport (Amsterdam) is 3€
2. A bottle of water at Hartsfield Airport (Atlanta) is $2.75 (2.22€)

There is 8% sales tax charged at Hartsfield Airport on the bottle of water so the net price is $2.94 (2.40€)
Where is the end cost less for a bottle of water? Now it is the product and not the tax rate that influences the cost.

When I say consider price I also mean overall cost of the product to the customer.

For domestic transactions, in all of the USA, are subject to a sales or use tax collected by retail sellers then remitted by that seller to the state or remitted directly to the buyer's state, at its state' rate, by intrastate buyers respectively, to their home state (i.e.; New York State or California, etc.); that rate is 5% to 8% in most states whereas the VAT tax rate in the EU nation-states is 18% to 28%. There is a product acquisition cost that is higher to an EU business or person of 13% to 20%.

Your mistake is not considering the buyer's cost and businesses are large buyers of goods. Buying goods for business end use can be very substantial expenditures. I can build a factory (land and improvements) for a lot less in the USA than in most countries in the EU. I will pay sales tax on the building materials in the USA where I will pay EU VAT on the materials AND Labor.

https://www.google.com/search?q=EU+V...erty+transfers

There is no sales tax on the transfer of real estate or the levying of business rents in the USA.


However, if I compare costs for this factory construction between Paris and New York City metro areas the costs are not that much different.

I suggest you decide what "Quality of life" means to you, and what you expect out of the business environment. There are some on this board that are well traveled, and have a good understanding of the various business and tax laws. We might be able to suggest a few places depending on more specific criteria.

- Legal creation of a business in the US can be set up for very little upfront money, and in less than one week (filing to opening a bank account). Taxes are not as bad as people complain, and there are legal ways to reduce tax liabilities even further.

- Cost of living is higher, but so is the quality of family life and friendships in Europe.

Romania is the best

no, you will not.

VAT only applies to consumers, when you build a factory you are quite obviously a business and VAT does not apply.

Russia: in europe and usa, you have a lot of regulations to respect, in russia you just bribe the police and you can do what you want... :my2kopeks

Not quite, the business is the tax collector, pays VAT on raw materials and services it needs, charges it on products it sells, send the difference to the tax inspectors.

The business gathers tax for free.

the only thing that is correct here is that you either receive or pay a balance

but as a business you receive back all VAT on business expenses and the VAT you collect from your clients is and never was your money anyways and you just pass it on

when - like us - you never collect VAT (actually only from CZ clients), we just receive all VAT back we paid on business expenses

seriously - am i the only one who knows how this works?

I know that too :) But problem is with vat as how you need to pay it every month(or every 3 months,depending on amount),and that money could be used for something else.While income tax is much easier to deal with it as it is executed only once a year and you can minimize it by investing on end of year.

There is usually somekind of reporting oblication, both buyer and seller (B2B). I mean trade between countries, inside countries seller also collects the VAT.

yes to both - but once again: as a serious business those are things you do anyways

i don't want to sound arrogant, but we're not dealing in the less than 30,000 Euro per year league...

And Klen: When you collected VAT, it has never been your money anyways, you cannot use it for something else.

There is a VAT exception for a VAT producing business? You build a building and you are not the consumer of the building?

You are not buying the building for resale to a consumer -- like a spec builder would do.

Each nation state has different rules on this. I can ask Monday about our buildings purchased in Marseilles, Rotterdam, Amsterdam and Bucharest (all in the EU) -- my guess is the structuring is different in each nation-state.

What country are you referring to -- the Czech Republic's VAT tax law? There is no standardized code between EU nation-states much as we have 50 plus different State and Territorial Tax Codes to deal with here.

Transfer tax -- new name, same game: more taxes -- LOL -- that is an old joke here; to add a STX to all invoices ''state transfer tax'' there is no such thing but it looks like the abbreviation for sales tax so people may pay it to you on interstate sales ( a little trickery). If they call to complain say it's state transfer tax -- don't you pay that there ? Then take it off the bill and send your payment LOL.

If the government tried to enact a transfer tax like this on real estate transactions there would be riots in that state.

As an American when I travel in Europe most things are more expensive. Maybe, with the FX more favorable to me now the prices might seem more equivalent. Gouda cheese was cheap in Paris but the one bedroom apartment I booked for the week was new and was sold for 275K€ ($341K) this year -- nice place but you could do better in most nicer areas in the USA.

Apart from housing costs the transportation fuel costs are three times the price. Businesses move merchandise, lots of it. If you can move your merchandise digitally this in irrelevant -- if you put those goods on a truck it costs more.

http://3mp1r3.cam500.com/img/boards/...sel-taxes.jpeg

The average US commercial diesel fuel tax is $0.143/liter or 0,115€ /liter Fuel taxes in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am concerned with the disposable income people have to spend on our luxury product -- live webcam shows. If I was a farmer or a wholesaler in the food distribution business this would affect my costs to serve the local market I would need a higher price to profit -- so the only question is the volume that I could do -- as to where it is better to be in business. e.g.; do I sell 5 bananas in the USA for .10 and make .04 or can I sell 5 bananas in the EU for more cost in real terms and make .03 -- that 5 bananas would have to be 6 or 7 ... to favor either place.

When you are successful in business you have a good quality of life in either place -- I don't think that is an issue. Now, if you consider regulatory grief, that is another story there are differences but they are industry specific.

Good god, with the arguing over various taxes. Is there anyplace on earth where you can do business but not be a part of a complex tax schema? Does anyplace have a citizen mentality rather than a tax farm mentality?

Well you can go to France. They let you keep 25% of everything you earn! :1orglaugh

Maybe,but it would be much better if it would be some system where customers would pay vat directly to tax service instead to seller which serves as middle man.Then it would look less as weight to business.

I just said that there is reporting oblication (I do it with one page online form). :)

About the VAT: if we think like you do, then you can use it for something else. As you don't report and pay the VAT immediately, you can for example have interest from government's money, BUAHHAHHAAA (sucker government)! Unfortunately it's actually your money and you pay taxes from it (VAT is a tax).

That is not good idea. If I buy some lollipot, I have to report and pay the VAT? Also enforcing that law would be kinda pain in the ass. Not to mention collecting the money. Companies have usually arranged their money flow better than inviduals. That is why companies collect income taxes too.

If I could stay in EU and work in US that was a perfect life!

no matter how long your posts are and no matter how many graphs you post:

As a business you don't pay VAT on business expenses - no matter in which European country you are

The Seasteading Institute | Opening humanity's next frontier :winkwink:

Yes,that would suck but it would be more fair,as at the moment it still look how bussiness pay for it,not customer.

That solution will never work. There is not that much to do, other than attitude change that hopefully helps to make better tax decisions. Now one of the keyplayers (companies) think that VAT is insignificant as customers pay it.

I want customers to pay me 1 million euros, it will be added to the price of one lollipop. Don't you worry guys, it's the customer who pays it, doesn't affect to anything. Not even to the demand of that lollipop. :)

poverty, crime and unemployment can't be compared with the same thing in us...
most of countries have free education (even universities)
and about debt: U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

Yes it would be probably complete clusterfuck as it would be too complicated for average joe,especially for older people.Tho,in future,if cash money become obsolete and everything will be done digitally,then it would be possible automatically to send vat of each transaction,meaning seller wouldn't not need to collect again.But that wont happen in our lifetime anyway.

You are right -- I checked.

But you pay the VAT and do the paperwork the same as we do ...
so that paperwork cost is the same we just front less money to the game.

Social Security Programs Throughout the World: Europe, 2010 - Czech Republic

I am using this (it's dated the rates may have changed).

Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu Limited, UK quotes theses costs to an employer at 34% of wages paid -- I'll accept their number :)

In Michigan,USA this costs an employer /employee (the costs are split) *we have to do this on a state level and the state costs will vary a lot.

This discussion is where it is best to operate a business not personal life.

FICA (pension-SSI-Disability) 6.2/6.2 = 12.40% (first $117,000 earned taxable)
Medicare (old age healthcare) 1.45%/1.45% = 2.90%
Healthcare insurance 8% Average Split varies. (more like 10% these days average)
FUTA Tax (Federal Unemployment) 0.6%
Michigan Unemployment Benefits tax 6.8% to 8.1%

Conclusion: 31.4% MI,US v. 34% CZ,EU
About the same

Workman's compensation costs need to be compared too that can be a large burden depending on the employees's work classification. If you are paying on a few employees (or 1000) you feel the cost every month.

There is a lot more to consider than pretty beaches and nice places to live when you are running a business.

Actually ...

I have always paid sales or use tax on these items. The are for end use as a business consumer. Servers are ''machinery'' ...

That would be kinda privacy issue too, and not just technical challenge. To be able to trace VAT correctly, government would have to know your every purchase. You know, they wold know even my butt plug collection with rainbows, unicorns and teletubbies printed on those.

Not really,think of this way:let say you put as paxum as only method of payment method.Paxum charges each transaction 25 cents,so in this case you will just instead those 25 cents add amount of percentage which goes to vat and that's it.

I don't see that how this will change anything. In business trackability is everything, and when tax folks do some inspection, you, Paxum or whoever has to be able to show the details of the transaction. If nothing else, this would otherwise be money launders dream.

that is correct - as long as the place I buy from is either from the same country as me or is from another European country and does not have a VAT ID - later i get it refunded.

and for the rest of the discussion I just give up - we run a real business, we have a real tax accountant and everything is taken care of.

Whatever VAT we collect we don't touch and just forward to the government - simple as that.

and one last edit: we just finished a VAT audit with no problems