yes to both - but once again: as a serious business those are things you do anyways

i don't want to sound arrogant, but we're not dealing in the less than 30,000 Euro per year league...

And Klen: When you collected VAT, it has never been your money anyways, you cannot use it for something else.

There is a VAT exception for a VAT producing business? You build a building and you are not the consumer of the building?

You are not buying the building for resale to a consumer -- like a spec builder would do.

Each nation state has different rules on this. I can ask Monday about our buildings purchased in Marseilles, Rotterdam, Amsterdam and Bucharest (all in the EU) -- my guess is the structuring is different in each nation-state.

What country are you referring to -- the Czech Republic's VAT tax law? There is no standardized code between EU nation-states much as we have 50 plus different State and Territorial Tax Codes to deal with here.

Transfer tax -- new name, same game: more taxes -- LOL -- that is an old joke here; to add a STX to all invoices ''state transfer tax'' there is no such thing but it looks like the abbreviation for sales tax so people may pay it to you on interstate sales ( a little trickery). If they call to complain say it's state transfer tax -- don't you pay that there ? Then take it off the bill and send your payment LOL.

If the government tried to enact a transfer tax like this on real estate transactions there would be riots in that state.

As an American when I travel in Europe most things are more expensive. Maybe, with the FX more favorable to me now the prices might seem more equivalent. Gouda cheese was cheap in Paris but the one bedroom apartment I booked for the week was new and was sold for 275K€ ($341K) this year -- nice place but you could do better in most nicer areas in the USA.

Apart from housing costs the transportation fuel costs are three times the price. Businesses move merchandise, lots of it. If you can move your merchandise digitally this in irrelevant -- if you put those goods on a truck it costs more.

http://3mp1r3.cam500.com/img/boards/...sel-taxes.jpeg

The average US commercial diesel fuel tax is $0.143/liter or 0,115€ /liter Fuel taxes in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am concerned with the disposable income people have to spend on our luxury product -- live webcam shows. If I was a farmer or a wholesaler in the food distribution business this would affect my costs to serve the local market I would need a higher price to profit -- so the only question is the volume that I could do -- as to where it is better to be in business. e.g.; do I sell 5 bananas in the USA for .10 and make .04 or can I sell 5 bananas in the EU for more cost in real terms and make .03 -- that 5 bananas would have to be 6 or 7 ... to favor either place.

When you are successful in business you have a good quality of life in either place -- I don't think that is an issue. Now, if you consider regulatory grief, that is another story there are differences but they are industry specific.

Good god, with the arguing over various taxes. Is there anyplace on earth where you can do business but not be a part of a complex tax schema? Does anyplace have a citizen mentality rather than a tax farm mentality?

Well you can go to France. They let you keep 25% of everything you earn! :1orglaugh

Maybe,but it would be much better if it would be some system where customers would pay vat directly to tax service instead to seller which serves as middle man.Then it would look less as weight to business.

I just said that there is reporting oblication (I do it with one page online form). :)

About the VAT: if we think like you do, then you can use it for something else. As you don't report and pay the VAT immediately, you can for example have interest from government's money, BUAHHAHHAAA (sucker government)! Unfortunately it's actually your money and you pay taxes from it (VAT is a tax).

That is not good idea. If I buy some lollipot, I have to report and pay the VAT? Also enforcing that law would be kinda pain in the ass. Not to mention collecting the money. Companies have usually arranged their money flow better than inviduals. That is why companies collect income taxes too.

If I could stay in EU and work in US that was a perfect life!

no matter how long your posts are and no matter how many graphs you post:

As a business you don't pay VAT on business expenses - no matter in which European country you are

The Seasteading Institute | Opening humanity's next frontier :winkwink:

Yes,that would suck but it would be more fair,as at the moment it still look how bussiness pay for it,not customer.

That solution will never work. There is not that much to do, other than attitude change that hopefully helps to make better tax decisions. Now one of the keyplayers (companies) think that VAT is insignificant as customers pay it.

I want customers to pay me 1 million euros, it will be added to the price of one lollipop. Don't you worry guys, it's the customer who pays it, doesn't affect to anything. Not even to the demand of that lollipop. :)

poverty, crime and unemployment can't be compared with the same thing in us...
most of countries have free education (even universities)
and about debt: U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

Yes it would be probably complete clusterfuck as it would be too complicated for average joe,especially for older people.Tho,in future,if cash money become obsolete and everything will be done digitally,then it would be possible automatically to send vat of each transaction,meaning seller wouldn't not need to collect again.But that wont happen in our lifetime anyway.

You are right -- I checked.

But you pay the VAT and do the paperwork the same as we do ...
so that paperwork cost is the same we just front less money to the game.

Social Security Programs Throughout the World: Europe, 2010 - Czech Republic

I am using this (it's dated the rates may have changed).

Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu Limited, UK quotes theses costs to an employer at 34% of wages paid -- I'll accept their number :)

In Michigan,USA this costs an employer /employee (the costs are split) *we have to do this on a state level and the state costs will vary a lot.

This discussion is where it is best to operate a business not personal life.

FICA (pension-SSI-Disability) 6.2/6.2 = 12.40% (first $117,000 earned taxable)
Medicare (old age healthcare) 1.45%/1.45% = 2.90%
Healthcare insurance 8% Average Split varies. (more like 10% these days average)
FUTA Tax (Federal Unemployment) 0.6%
Michigan Unemployment Benefits tax 6.8% to 8.1%

Conclusion: 31.4% MI,US v. 34% CZ,EU
About the same

Workman's compensation costs need to be compared too that can be a large burden depending on the employees's work classification. If you are paying on a few employees (or 1000) you feel the cost every month.

There is a lot more to consider than pretty beaches and nice places to live when you are running a business.

Actually ...

I have always paid sales or use tax on these items. The are for end use as a business consumer. Servers are ''machinery'' ...

That would be kinda privacy issue too, and not just technical challenge. To be able to trace VAT correctly, government would have to know your every purchase. You know, they wold know even my butt plug collection with rainbows, unicorns and teletubbies printed on those.

Not really,think of this way:let say you put as paxum as only method of payment method.Paxum charges each transaction 25 cents,so in this case you will just instead those 25 cents add amount of percentage which goes to vat and that's it.

I don't see that how this will change anything. In business trackability is everything, and when tax folks do some inspection, you, Paxum or whoever has to be able to show the details of the transaction. If nothing else, this would otherwise be money launders dream.

that is correct - as long as the place I buy from is either from the same country as me or is from another European country and does not have a VAT ID - later i get it refunded.

and for the rest of the discussion I just give up - we run a real business, we have a real tax accountant and everything is taken care of.

Whatever VAT we collect we don't touch and just forward to the government - simple as that.

and one last edit: we just finished a VAT audit with no problems

So what you're saying is that VAT (especially) is a very hidebound, onerous, time consuming and inefficient system...... If I understood you properly.

So many countries have pathetically complex taxation systems which effectively make the business person a slave to a system. If we could cut out that aggro, the system becomes economically much more successful and there would be less need for enforcement. Then I 100% agree with you.

As it stands these systems are basically falling apart (especially in the UK) and very poorly designed for the modern times. Some euro and asian countries have much more simple systems.

Taxes are just one problem to consider.

Labor costs are a big issue when you compare the EU countries and the US. Asia owns a lot of the labor markets.

The EU has a more varied labor rate -- you can't compare French and Bulgarian labor rates. The US has a smaller variation but still the locale matters a lot:

France vs. Bulgaria -- Bulgarian per household income is only 43% of French per household income
California vs. Mississippi -- in Mississippi per household income is only 64% of the per household income in California.

A lot depends on the locale and if the market is local, in that ecomomic zone (domestic) or global.

I think these locales are comparible and near weighted.

I have no clue what hidebound and onerous mean,so i'l say how it is time consuming and inefficient system.Tho key problem how there is billions of taxes,billions of criteria and everything.
Back in middle age was easier - you had to pay 10% to church,10% to king and 10% for something else as well and that was it.Also i read one interesting article how Sweden become powerful country thanks to being neoliberal for certain time,meaning how they had then low taxes and very little regulations,and now they are social country with high taxes,and as result all big companies except one was founded in era of neoliberalism.

No i meant how goverment will run system like paxum where all other methods of payments will be either restricted or banned,and then it will possible to do it that way.

Doesn't sound so good either.

Well that will happen sooner or later.But there will be probably some derivate of bitcoin as counter measure.

Yes... it is like that... but if it wouldn't be like that then it wouldn't be like that.
The fact that it is like that doesn't mean that people could not have a problem with it.

Example.... most paysites charge 29.95 for a membership. It's a price people are familiar with and accept regarding to paysites. If you want to "let customers pay" for the vat then add $6.30 to it and your membership will cost $36.25. With that price you will absolutely lose/miss out customers. Or charge just $29.95 a month and only keep $24.76 in your pockets because the government fuckers want their vat. Which will be spend on wars, subsidies for artists who are to creative to work for a living and other bullshit, while they can't even hold a proper budget with all the money they suck. Now that's where our money goes... i prefer to keep it myself... but indeed... it doesn't work like that. I do have a problem with vat because it's not just collected and given through... it's affecting my profit in any or some way.

That was my point -- somewhere VAT effects the price competitiveness of your product's profit. When you sell outside of the EU you collect (or absorb) no VAT. If I am a USA company (with no EU presence (domiciled office)) VAT is not collected inside the USA or in the EU -- the EU resident consumer would need to make a declaration and pay the VAT directly to that member-nation state. This is like the mechanism that is called 'Use Tax' in the USA -- you declare your internet purchases ( all purchases foreign to that state) and pay use tax -- good luck on that one -- the compliance rate is very low overall.