there are 1000s of breeds of dogs to choose from, i have zero need to risk my family, friends and loved ones by owning a pit bull. i also take responsibility for my dog when we are walking and i see a pit bull coming up, i'll pick my dog up and change direction to completely avoid the 2 dogs meeting. i learned that lesson the hard way.

Yes, there is no doubting their original breeding was for fighting bears and bulls, and then later each other. Aggression, power, stamina and a never quit attitude are all traits that are built into the breed. But that doesn't mean they are inherently "bad" by default. Simply because they have these traits doesn't mean the entire breed is literally a ticking time-bomb waiting to maul people at the drop of a hat. It's like how they've honed and refined a Ferrari over many years. It's built to go very fast and look good, but a few of them will catch on fire. That doesn't mean all Ferrari will catch on fire by default.

People buy Bird Dogs to roust birds for hunting. Bloodhounds are used for hunting deer or wild boars. Border Collies are great for herding sheep.. Yet I wouldn't buy a Border Collie to roust birds from a thicket or to hunt a deer, much the same as you wouldn't buy a Chihuahua to hunt wild boar. Each breed has it's own usefulness yet none of the above are overly aggressive by nature of their breeding. (well the Chihuahua is actually the most aggressive ironically)

However you want a bit bull which is bred to fight & kill to be your best friend. Why don't you tell everyone why you really wanted the pit bull? You know because it's a bad ass and tough.

That would be attempted suicide by gunshot, not a Pit bull.

You don't do it with any other large breed dogs? Rott? Doberman? Shepherd?

She was a rescue dog from a fighting ring. I adopted her to give her a better life. Simple as that.

It means they are an unreasonable risk.. being that one finally loses it or those behaviors are triggered or spontaneously happen... a child, women or old man loses his life or is permanently maimed. This is why there is breed specific legislation... because they are exactly that, deadly and lethal ticking time bombs. Just because only a small % of those ticking time bombs explode, doesn't mean its ok for owners to play the odds with the lives of others and cause the death of innocent men, women and children.

sure do. but i rarely come across those dogs. i try and make note of all the most dangerous dogs and avoid them entirely. why risk it. i couldn't imagine owning a dog that involved me not being able to step out of the room for a beer because the dog might go beserk and maim whoever is in there.

Tic ..... tic ..... tic .....

I totally understand that. I've seen people give Molly a very wide berth in the park and I understand their reasonings behind doing that. But I can tell you everyone that has taken the chance/time to pet her calls her a lovely dog. I'm obviously bias as she is my dog, but it still does make me kinda sad that people judge her (and in turn me no doubt) without even knowing her.

there's nothing sad about creating safe boundaries around loved ones.

Oxygen causes oxidation which causes free radicals to be released which damage cell walls within our bodies, therefore with your line of reasoning breathing is an unreasonable risk. I understand the point you're trying to make and probably at some level agree with it, but to say "because they are exactly that, deadly and lethal ticking time bombs." is a ridiculous statement.

TROLLENSTEIN, are you opposed to any attempts to study, research, and statistically categorize dogs by danger? the rottweiler is the 2nd most dangerous dog on the list, do you also disagree that rottweilers are dangerous?

Not at all. I'm just of the opinion that while all dogs are most certainly capable of attacking a person, not all dogs will. It's a cliche (forgive me!) but... A lot of people think guns are bad. But a gun and a responsible owner should never be tarred with the same brush as the few lunatics that cause the problems. Same with dogs.

my dog was built for personal protection :2 cents:

Using the gun analogy doesn't work. In 2012 there were 190,342 guns reported lost or stolen. Where do those guns end up? Many of them end up in the hands of criminals. This means there are hundreds, if not thousands of responsible gun owners who lost a gun in some way or another and that gun ended up in the hands of criminal who may have used it to carry out a crime.

To me that is like saying, "My pit is amazing and would never hurt anything." Then when the dog gets out of the yard or wanders off or is alone and does something violent you say, "Well, I wasn't there with the dog. If I was it wouldn't have happened."

You rarely hear about a responsible pit owner with their dog on a leash having the dog suddenly, violently attack someone or something. You regularly hear about them getting out of their yards or something wandering into the yard or something happening when the owner isn't present or nearby.

The pit is the gun. Sometimes you can be a responsible owner who raised the dog well, but as you say yourself all dogs are certainly capable of attacking. If pits do attack they can do massive damage.

But I ask pit owners this. What do you get from a pit that you can't get from a lab, a golden retriever or some similar dog? Surely they will both love you unconditionally. They will be good companions. What, beyond the stigma of owning a pit, is the attraction to owning one?

I get it. People love their animals like they were their own children. Unfortunately this same love also clouds peoples best judgement. Pitbulls are dangerous animals, and the owners need to be held responsible for any damage they cause to any person or other pet.

You get increasingly irrational with your reaching... You yourself admitted that pit bulls were selectively bred to fight and possess those related traits (aggressive nature etc). Every time a pit bull acts like a pit bull, everyone blames the owner as if they know anything at all about the owner and NEVER has anyone agreed "yeah, this one is not on the owner". You have no more argument. You already admitted they are a big risk in terms of safety and that disturbing behaviors are ingrained in their DNA making them prone to violent attacks.

Fixed it for ya. :winkwink:

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Probably wouldn't work out so well with alligators though.

Anyone that argued "sheep dogs don't try to herd things and their genes have nothing to do with it... they only try to herd things when they have bad owners" would be laughed at by the same people who try to deny pit bulls are often attacking things for the same genetic reasons.

Yea that was kinda the point I was getting at when I brought up Border Collies, Blood Hounds ect.. They do what they do because they have been selectively bred to be good at their task..

Just like pits were bred to be good at fighting and killing.

but the baby must have done something to set the pit bull off.

/ pit bull apologist

But I thought the pit was a 'nanny' dog.

I used to have an Old English Sheepdog. She came from a champion bloodline, so there should not have been anything genetically anomalous about her. And she never tried to herd anything that I can recall.

i like poolar bears...

How can you be a responsible gun owner and just lose a gun? You can't. If the gun is stolen and then if bad things happen with your gun after it is stolen you can't be blamed, the person using the gun to do bad things is entirely at fault. All guns, when loaded, are capable of killing people but that obviously does not mean all guns will kill people. Same for dogs, same for cars, same for anything really. We are all capable of killing other people, it's built into us. But very few of us kill other people. Some people do kill other people tho, but we don't tar the entire human race over the actions of a small bunch of lunatics. :2 cents:

I get the same as any other dog, she just happens to be a Pit bull. Suggesting I shouldn't love my dog simply because of a stigma others have placed on my dog is silly.

Could you point out a single instance of me being irrational and "reaching"? My argument is that not all dogs will go bananas, a small percentage will of course, but not all. Your argument is that ALL Pit bulls will go bananas at some point. No exceptions. So following that reasoning one would expect that each and every pit bull owner would have been attacked by their dog at one point in time... and that is, obviously, not the case. Right? So that being true, you've sunk your own argument. And I can't argue with that.

But what made you choose a pit bull? Was she a rescue or a dog someone gave you? Did you know she was a pit when you chose that particular dog. If you did know she was a pit why did you choose that particular breed?

Looking at only one dog and saying that because he did, or did not do something behaviorally, is proof that inborn temperament does not exist is just ... wrong.

Nobody adopts or buys pit bulls to herd sheep.

Nobody adopts or buys Newfoundlanders to kill rats

Nobody adopts or buys Shih Tzu's to lead the blind.

Amelia in that statement above you are implying that everyone who works with dogs has got it wrong, and that dogs can all do whatever we want them to with the same level of effectiveness, if we just train them the right way.

I don't think so.

People use specific breeds for a reason.

She is a rescue dog. I knew right away she was a Pit bull from just looking at her. The people at the rescue explained she'd (and 17 other Pit pups) been removed from a location were she would probably be used a bait dog or used to breed until death. They were desperately looking for people to help instead of just having them all put to sleep so I liked her best and haven't regretted it for a single moment. It wasn't a case of setting out to get a Pit bull to use as a dick extension (I despise those people, too) or anything like that. She just needed someone to give her a chance so I did.

Of course the baby did!

There are also several stories of poodles killing babies which are covered up by the media and never made public so that we can all continue to hate on Pit Bulls for no reason whatsoever.

I have 3 border collies here. All three herd. Two more so than the other.

They are known to be nippy, not great with children and not necessarily "gentle" herders. If I did not live on a farm, I would not likely own one. They most definitely need a job.

Pitbulls are so inbred (in my opinion) that the genetics are completely fucked up. How many states are people banned from owning them in?

Apply the same logic to gun ownership, especially in southern states. Compare gun deaths in the US to a country like Australia where there is highly restricted gun ownership. Compare deaths per capita.

Is it the fault of the idiot asshole gun owners for the gun deaths who don't know what responsible firearm ownership is, is it the governments fault for allowing them?

Assholes with pitbulls and people that get them and don't know how to properly train them are at much higher risk for attacks. Pitbulls were bred with purpose in mind but even that has control aspects as they can't just guard shit and then attack the owner for coming back to the thing the pitbull is guarding.

Just because you have a vendetta against something doesn't make your logic right or righteous.

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Looks like they may charge the parents. They should start charging every fuckwad that owns these dogs when they get loose and attack innocent people.


Source - Dallas Police say they’ll refer a dog-mauling death to grand jury to determine if criminal charges should be considered.

10-week-old Brayden Lamar Wilson was momentarily left unattended in a bouncing seat in his Red Bird area home Sunday afternoon, according to police. The family pet, a pit bull, mauled the baby and also one of his parents when they came in and tried to save the child. But little Brayden Lamar Wilson was pronounced dead at the hospital.

The baby’s grandmother told CBS-11 News the dog was eight years old and that two older children had grown up with it. “It’s just unexplainable, said Willetta Tate. “You just don’t get it when you’ve had the dog so long, I don’t know what could have happened. I don’t know.”

“Those kids, they sleep with him and everything,” she continued, speaking of her surviving grandchildren, age 8 and 11. But Sunday the family pet named Grady turned murderous predator, mauling ten week old Brayden in a bouncing seat while the parents were outside. When the father returned from turning on a sprinkler he found Grady attacking Brayden. “Once he got the dog off the baby he proceeded to bring the dog out and she had the dog and the dog was trying to get away from her,” according to Tate.

The father shot the animal twice, killing it, but not before it bit the mother as well. Today bandages could be seen on her both wrists as she returned home with her children. They spent the morning being re-interviewed by Child Protective Services to make sure there was no further danger to the children’s welfare. Tate says they’re struggling for answers.

“It’s just unexplainable,” according to Tate. “Like I said, kids play with him every day, littler kids, nieces and nephews and I just… I don’t know.”

Some of those same kids played with neighbor Chanel Villarreal’s daughter, too. Villarreal took it hard. “I was devastated. I felt so bad, I was like, ‘Oh, my God. A dog attack? In our neighborhood?’ And then when I heard it was a baby I felt so bad.”

But she cautions don’t be quick to blame the breed. She owns a pit bull herself and says the rumors of all dogs being unstable is a myth. “But that reputation isn’t true; not all pit bulls are like that. Some are, some are not.” She added, “It is unfair, because you can’t stereotype a pit bull.”

Child Protective Services interviewed the family last night and again today, according to Tate. CPS has no record of any previous history with the family.

I just can't understand it. I mean, dogs have the same brain capacity/process as humans, right? How in hell could a dog think this way after weighing up the fact it slept fine with humans, and humans had never hurt it? Sometimes it's like dogs don't have any logic at all, or are just too lazy to learn things humans tell them. If only there was some way to determine whether or not dogs aren't humans, and don't have the same thought processes.

ps dogs are exactly like guns :thumbsup - I've lost count of the number of times a gun owner was responsible, yet the gun fired shots on it's own because it had a meltdown in it's cute, fuzzy, human-like brain.

pps I'm a complete neutral, but some funny shit in this thread :upsidedow

Mine was a pit mix, she passed away in Oct at almost 11 yrs old. The day we went to the pound, I was looking for another Boston Terrier. I had two and wanted another. She was just such a happy dog wagging her tail like crazy in her cage looking at me. I told her to sit and she sat. I adopted her, now she was very den aggressive which made her an amazing watch dog. She made alot of noise but she never bit anyone or anything. I would take her for a bath and she would be so afraid she would be shaking and there was never a problem. Once we were in a hotel, waiting for an elevator and when the doors open. Five little children ran out and yelled doggie,surrounded her and started petting her, she just sat there. I think its more how they are raised and also I would never let a dog I had outside without a leash and if it was in my backyard I was there with them.

I think there are signs, there is a problem with the dog and people ignore them. Then they say this happened out of the blue.

the pit bull/gun analogy doesn't ring true for me. a better comparison is the one between pitbulls and people who carelessly die because of something they initiated.

the guy shot in the back and killed by police
the guy killed in the theater for texting
the guy killed for playing his radio too loud in the parking lot

those guys would all be alive now if they didn't put themselves at risk. it doesn't matter that the cop was wrong, the dude is dead now. i'm sure he'd rethink the sitch in hindsight if he could and decide not to run.

same with pit bulls, i'm not going to put myself at risk by being around aggressive bully dogs. at the end of the day, when the dog goes bezerk on a whim and kills a person, that person is dead for good, at that point, the debate is moot. loved one lost. why risk loved ones over a dog? why open myself up to massive liability in public with a bully dog?

that defies my logic.