Forget "alarmists". Let's assume that for now, Alarmists post inflated crap online as click bate. I've seen it on Right-wing sites, and I've seen it on left wing sites too. So let's say all that crap just cancels each other out and forget that term for now.

Scientists at Nasa, Noaa and other places say the earth is warming up thanks to CO2 and other gasses, and that the results can be bad. Why not take steps to reduce the amount of gasses we put into the air? Man-made or not, the gasses are piling up, aren't they?

Why wait for the governments? Some companies are already doing something about it, and we people can definitely do something about it too, right? Tell me exactly what we lose doing this. It seems to me we can gain a lot for almost no risk.

Good question! No use of course. Both sides agree, so this too should be removed from the discussion.


If you're talking about the War machine, I agree, and that's too bad, but it still doesn't mean that there aren't other things that we can do, and that even the governments can do in other sectors. Look at what Germany and France have done. Even China's starting to come around.

Not just Aircraft carriers. Container ships too like the Maersk Line pollute like crazy delivering goods to us from China. Then again, it's still cheaper, more fuel efficient, and pollutes less than moving all that stuff by car.

Agreed, but this is kind of a different subject. If we keep pulling arguments from everywhere, we'll never get anywhere.



Robbie try looking at it like this: First, forget the government. Next, let's just talk about 1 item at a time. Maybe then we can get somewhere.

Peace.

Yes because all of the "official" data is "real" "true" and "accurate" because it's "official" and we all know officials don't lie.

He's simply trying to gotcha Robbie for using the word weather instead of the word climate in the same sentence Robbie used the word climate in.

Hardly a valid argument.


I mean really, 3rd grade definitions on the difference between weather and climate?

Please.

EXACTLY **********! Which is why you should know better than this.
Over REAL time the Earth's climate changes dramatically...and it does it without any input from mankind.

NEWSFLASH: The polar caps will one day melt. Just as they have in the past.
NEWSFLASH: The polar caps will one day freeze over and extend down to Tennessee...just as they have in the past.
NEWSFLASH: Man will have nothing to do with either.

GODDAMN. :1orglaugh

You are infuriating with your blindness. You CAN'T forget the govt.'s.

THEY ARE THE ONES DOING ALL THE DAMAGE THAT YOU CLAIM IS BEING DONE.

It's like you're saying...let's talk about making guitars, but FORGET about all the guitar manufacturers

How silly.
The GOVT.'s are the reason that there is so much CO2 in the atmosphere.
As for businesses doing something...oh yeah, they are busy buying carbon credits on the open market so they don't have to actually reduce it.

Unreal that you don't seem to have a clue as to what is really going on.

It doesn't mean that, and therefore ....

global warming is scam

snort, yep. again too.

can't believe they're still trying this

Not sure what you mean. More ice means more cold. Warming means less ice. If someone says the ice caps will melt and they don't then you have to question the accuracy of their models.

Well, if you don't want to believe Forbes or Heartland how about NASA?

Antarctic Sea Ice Reaches New Record Maximum | NASA

Antarctica posted a 35 record high for sea ice less than a year ago.

Not that it proves anything since climate is such a complex system, but it's enough to raise some serious questions.

When someone says the polar ice caps will melt and then NASA says Antarctica has more sea ice than it has seen in 35 years any sane person will immediately see that something isn't adding up.

One thing is for sure. CO2 is a greenhouse gas and humans have increased the amount of CO2 released into the atmosphere and it is causing radiative forcing. I don't think climate sensitivity is as high as they claim it is though. We would be seeing warmer temperatures and less ice if what they said was true.

Plus, even if we are responsible and even if we don't come up with a technological solution to counter an problems, a few degrees warmer over 100 years is barely anything. We went from riding horses to space shuttles in that amount of time. Do you really think we can't convert CO2 into something useful for us? I for one am not concerned. Permaculture teaches there is no such thing as waste, just unused resources.

Here's a recent technology that is interesting:
Artificial Photosynthesis Advance Hailed As Major Breakthrough

CO2 + sunlight + bacteria -> energy + O2

That one might even have the capability of going too far in the opposite direction and removing too much CO2.

There's also the fact the more CO2 means more plant growth which means more CO2 consumption. Green house growers will pump in CO2 to around 1000 ppm (250% of current levels) in order to get higher yields.

You're wasting your time Brandon...the alarmists have blinders on. They use 15 year old computer models based on bad data.

And anytime the Earth adapts and the "danger" (you know of a degree or two of temp) is gone...they then say that the new danger is Earth's adaptation!

Just like the oceans sucking up the CO2. Now it's "OMG, the ocean will now become acidic and everyone will DIE!!!"

No...most sane human beings realize that if there is an increase in acidity...nature will again adapt to bring the ph level of the freakin' ocean back to what alarmists think is "normal" (FYI, there is no such thing as "normal").

Your post was well written and thought out.

Therefore you MUST be in denial and some kind of Koch Brother/Fox News/Republican puppet.

Ah, I see our resident novelists have taken over yet another thread.

What he said :)

No, its the deniers that have the blinders on.

LOL, says the man who refuses to even question if this might be bullshit. :)

It's a religion for you. You would have been at the front of the line in 1970 when Daniel Ellsberg handed Pres. Nixon the report from the top scientists saying that unless we acted RIGHT THEN to stop "global warming" the entire Eastern Seaboard of the United States would be underwater by the year 2000.

You would have been at the front of the line a couple of years later when the "settled science" was that we were entering a new Ice Age and were all about to die.

And just like now...you would look foolish in the end.

Look Robbie I don't want to fight with you, and there's no reason to get mad at me. We both believe different things, that's all. I sincerely hope that you belief is correct and that the world has nothing to worry about, but I'm pretty sure that this isn't the case.

Calling people like me who are concerned about the environment Alarmists isn't accurate and isn't fair. I think gas is expensive and bad for the environment, so I choose to drive a car that doesn't need as much of it. If you have to give me a label, why not thrifty tree hugger? At least its accurate and not insulting.

I want what you want: Fresh air, blue skies, green grass, clean water, and moderate climate. I worry that certain industries are taking this away. Science it seems, is proving they are.

No fighting.

Mark, I'm not "mad" at you.

And unlike you...I don't "believe" in anything. You do.

And I'm not "fighting". I'm just watching as you seem to just placidly accept the b.s. you're being fed and pretend that Earth's entire history doesn't exist.

"Certain industries" are putting out CO2???? I say AGAIN...the U.S. federal govt. puts out more than ALL industries combined.
So maybe it's the Feds who are trying to take away all of our clean air and water?

It's amazing what good marketing can convince people of.

but calling people who don't buy into the hype of what needs to be done, who is primarily 'at fault' (ie not that they think there is no climate change) 'deniers' is ok?

When you say 'deniers', what exactly are you saying those 'deniers' are 'denying'? When YOU use that word, about eg Robbie?

Anyone who believes in global warming is a fucking idiot.

it's the television that tells the naive that buying&driving a new car saves gas.

because it certainly isn't reality.

Oh, he's definitely trying to say that I and others who aren't falling for this crap are "denying" "science".

Just like I would have been a "denier" in 1970 when "science" was wrong about it. And again later in the 1970's when "science" was again wrong about the coming "ice age".

Mark would have been right there screaming at the top of his lungs in the 1970's that I was a "Denier" and just too dumb to understand his religion of "science".

Unfortunately REAL science says the Earth's climate changes constantly. It also shows that nature adapts to most everything.

And so I'll say it again...the ONLY thing that will be something to be an "alarmist" about would be an extinction event like a large meteor hitting the Earth.
And that WILL happen. Real science shows that.

Meanwhile Mark will continue to wring his hands and agonize over bought and paid for "science" and will continue to affect the Earth's climate...not at all.

Just to clarify, I don't "believe" in anything that is beyond science. For example, I am not the least bit religious. UFO sightings are not proof that Aliens are visiting us, etc. Just science, only science, baby.

I never once said the Earth history of climate change never happened. In fact I even said just the opposite to you the first time you tried to say I said this. I agreed with you on the subject. The point is, is that now the climate is changing faster than it did, because of greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere.


"Certain industries" are putting out CO2???? I say AGAIN...the U.S. federal govt. puts out more than ALL industries combined.
So maybe it's the Feds who are trying to take away all of our clean air and water?[/quote]

Again, I agreed with you on this too. My question to do was, Just because the Government is doing it, why should we?

It sure is!

Mark, Mark, Mark...The Earth's climate has changed VERY, VERY quickly in the past.

Do you know anything about Earth's history? Even recently?
The Sahara Desert was a green lush grassland where people hunted roaming animals and grew crops a few thousand years ago for instance.

And why don't you read about The Medieval Warm Period? It was caused by increased solar activity, less volcanic activity, and ocean circulation.
Mankind didn't have a damn thing to do with it. And it came upon the Earth relatively FAST. And lasted from about 950 to 1250 AD

And then...BOOM. The "Little Ice Age" kicked in. 1350 AD to about 1850. Came upon us fast.
And since 1850 guess what the Earth is doing?
WARMING BACK UP FROM THE LITTLE ICE AGE.

Didn't you pay any attention in school EVER. Or have you ever thought about googling topics instead of just googling your beliefs to find articles that only agree with your view?

EDIT: By the way, I was in New Orleans last May for the Internext Show. The Gulf waters HAVE recovered. Also my brother is a fishing Captain in Florida on the Gulf Of Mexico.
Come down from Canada and open your eyes and see for yourself.

the years long extreme drought in Texas and Oklahoma ended quickly and abruptly this past weekend.

didn't take years. didn't take everyone agreeing on footprints.

Yep. But to the Alarmists it was all caused by CO2

:(

and that's because they deny the science behind el nino. :1orglaugh

They ignore EVERYTHING that could contradict the scripted agenda that was based on 15 year old computer models that were founded on bad data that didn't take any of the variables of the Earth into account.

And as you can see here on GFY...their "BELIEFS" are like listening to religious nuts.

Me: "But Mr. Religious Nut, how can you possibly believe the Bible? A book written by primitive superstitious people?"
Religious Nut: "The bible is THE WORD OF GOD!!!!"

Me: "But **********, how can you say that mankind is changing the Earth's climate when the Earth's climate is going to change whether mankind exists or not? And how can you say that a degree or two in temp is going to destroy us?"
**********: "It's SETTLED SCIENCE!!!!"

Dude... I ... nevermind. I give up.


3 Days ago:
http://ecowatch.com/wp-content/uploa...Together-b.jpg
Record Dolphin Die-Off Linked to Gulf Oil Spill

Sorry Robbie, I will believe what NASA and NOAA say much faster than what anyone else says.

El Nino is not climate change.

many of us already know el nino precedes the climate change period debate by centuries. nevertheless, i'm quite sure i can find a post claiming the drought and heat wave in india is on account of climate change when in fact, it's on account of el nino. and another fact, it's the very same el nino that ended the drought in Texas and OKlahoma. and another fact is it is the very same el nino we hope will end the drought in Cali this upcoming winter.

el nino patterns predate climate change.

Mark! That picture is NOT from 3 days ago.
I just read that article. It's from when the spill actually happened. And it's talking about 1,400 dolphins who were killed from the oil spill from 2011 to 2014.

Of course they don't specify how many died when the oil was in the water like that in 2011 VS how many died in the following years.

You are so full of crap sometimes with your misleading "facts"

I TOLD you my brother is a fishing captain on the Gulf. He would know a lot better than some guy in Canada googling up his "beliefs" instead of actual facts.

My family is in Florida. I was just on the beach in Bradenton with a rented house last July to celebrate my mom's birthday.
The ocean on the Gulf is freakin' beautiful. And the fish (and dolphins) are plentiful.

Stop dramatizing and exaggerating everything.

You TOTALLY ignore history. You totally IGNORE everything that doesn't fit your preconceived notions.
One day you might want to ask yourself why you don't wonder about anything or even question anything...instead of just being spoonfed your info from people with agendas.

Robbie

The article I linked to and that posted the photo is here

Record Dolphin Die-Off Linked to Gulf Oil Spill

It was written on May 21st, 2015. The article talks about a new finding called "drenal Gland and Lung Lesions in Gulf of Mexico Common Bottlenose Dolphins (Tursiops truncatus) Found Dead following the Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill" That was written on May 20th 2015.

PLOS ONE: Adrenal Gland and Lung Lesions in Gulf of Mexico Common Bottlenose Dolphins (Tursiops truncatus) Found Dead following the Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill

And the more far reaching impacts of the BP oil Spill that was written back in March, 2015

10 Things BP?s New Report Doesn?t Tell You

as well as quotes from Nasa and Noaa.

While I'm sure your brother is a fine fishing captain in the Gulf, he is no scientist that is actually studying the waters and the marine life in the Gulf and the effect that the BP oil spill has had.

Then there were the 600 Turtles and 150 Dolphins and Whales killed by the BP oil disaster, plus lots of other bad news, again, all according to NOAA scientists

2010 Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill: Sea Turtles, Dolphins, and Whales :: NOAA Fisheries

So again sorry dude, but there's no chance in hell that I'll believe that anyone on some forum is smarter than scientists at NASA and NOAA.

You shoot porn and have lots of experience in porn? Great - that I will listen to and believe. But you telling me that science is bullshit? Nope nope nope.

Mark...the PICTURE you posted is NOT from 3 days ago.
The ARTICLE you linked to was written 3 days ago about an incident from FOUR years ago.

You are misleading.

And for the rest of your post...you can not prove anything about global warming that a simple look at temps through the Earth's history that I was taught in elementary school can't show you.

Sorry, but there's "no chance in hell" that a guy on a forum who doesn't even know basic history or understand it is going to tell me about REAL science when he is a firm BELIEVER in paid for "science" based on faulty computer models from 15 years ago.

Agonize over it. Cry for the polar bears. Run out and hug a tree if it makes you feel better.
Because in the final analysis...that is ALL you are doing: making yourself feel better.

See Robbie that's what you don't get. It's YOU that is making yourself feel better by denying the facts and ignoring what Scientists say.

But hey, don't worry about it. I'll care enough for the both of us, so you won't have to.

Here is a real simple test for those that deny climate change... pull your car in to the garage and shut the door and leave it running... wait an hour and then come back and tell us if it had any effect on the atmosphere or the air quality inside the garage.

You cannot have industry in the 10's of thousands and cars and ships and trucks in the 10's of thousands burning oil.gas,coal,wood for OVER 100 continuous years and not expect it to affect ANYTHING... It don't make you a denier it makes you fucking stupid. :thumbsup

Here's a real simple quiz for clueless idiots. Define: carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide.

Went ahead and linked them for ya in case you couldn't spell google.

Both compounds contain carbon and oxygen, the difference lies in their toxicity. Carbon dioxide (CO2) contains one molecule of carbon and two molecules of oxygen. Carbon Monoxide (CO) contains only one atom of oxygen and two atoms of carbon.

Sit in closed garage with a gasoline engine car running and you will pass out and then die because you are taking in too much CO.

Put your head in a plastic bag and seal it around your neck and in a few seconds you will pass out and die because you are taking in too much CO2.

Now... Dihydrogen monoxide, that's a real killer, right Robbie? ;)

So if you put your head in a plastic bag hooked to a muffler one cancels out the other? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh BTW you got CO wrong.

Great analogy

</not>

I know ********** means well.

But posting "3 Days Ago" above an old picture of dolphins swimming near an oil slick was just like all the Alarmists bullshit: totally deceptive in every way.

He should be ashamed of himself that he can't compete in the arena of ideas and has to resort to deception and exaggerations.
Just one more reason to NOT listen to the religious-fervor-like insanity of Alarmists.

They remind me of Evangelical Christians. So DETERMINED to "save" your soul from fire and brimstone. They become obsessed and think they can somehow make everyone else "believe" too. :(