Paul your total lack of understanding simple marketing fundamentals as well as your ability to be absolutely devoid of any kind of commercial mindset is fucking impressive. Especially when you look at how much you type... Are you sure you are not a woman? I mean do you talk as much bullshit as you type on a regular basis?

No offence intended to women... but ya'll know you talk too much!

you're trying to explain something you don't understand nor have experience with to people who actually understand it and have experience with it.

My last attempt... as I wait for someone to show up at my office. (though everyone, most of all me, knows its 100% futile to even attempt to explain anything to you)

EVERYONE FUCKING UNDERSTANDS THEY ARE NOT INTENDING TO SELL DIRECTLY FROM PORNHUB.

The point, which you've missed for the 100th time is that every mainstream company that has tried has failed to advertise in adult.

Failed miserably.

That's why they aren't advertising in a marketplace with a ridiculous amount of traffic thats not overly expensive by any tradition advertising metric.

THEY HAVE FOUND THERE IS NO VALUE THERE FOR THEM.

Get it?

No value.

Value is value.

It doesn't matter if its trying to sell directly or trying to "brand a product" by spending retarded amounts of money on ads to be noticed by no one.

At the end of the day, if you can't compete for and sell something to that traffic, you also can't "brand" a product to that traffic. There is no difference. Putting ads in front of an untargeted audience that isn't noticing them is no more effective than trying to sell to an untargeted audience who isn't noticing the ads, who isn't clicking and who isn't buying. Furthermore, ad rates are driven by people who are spending millions and have this shit dialed in a way which you can never understand. YOU will NEVER made a successful media buy because you're too dumb. That is a fact. You are too much of a fucking idiot to put your money where your mouth is. You have no clue how any of this works, if you did, you'd be making 100 joins a day off your library of content instead of flunking out of the biz and yelling at clouds all day long.

If you can't get their eyes and their attention, on the message, there is no "branding". It doesn't matter that they want to spend 1,000,000,000.00 or 1,000.00.

don't forget the part about how a diesel ad campaign at pornhub spells the ultimate demise of pornography.

Now you've dropped the CPM idea and your graphs TO SELL DIRECTLY FROM PORNHUB you're getting it. So why you stayed on that road is beyond me.

Diesel and mainstream don't give a fuck about what you do. They have different primary goals for advertising.

Now can you list the mainstream companies that have advertised on major Tubes and the reasons they dropped it? Then we can start looking at time, demographics, audience reactions via surveys and media reaction.

Leave your silly graphs out of it. Because you only know the value of it to you via clicks that convert at the time.

You're too stuck in your thinking. The article is a win for both Diesel and Pornhub, time will tell if it grows. I have an open mind to the possible, you need to open yours.

At least, you learned this was wrong. I edited it to make it correct. See my references to football sponsorships.

Right. Forgot about that. Someone is going to buy up all the ad spots at unreal rates and all the adult sites to put irrelevant, untargeted ads in front of users to grow their business. Makes perfect sense. I'm going to "brand" some of my grandma's homemade jelly on pornhub tomorrow... sure its going to cost 10,000.00 USD a day in traffic which i have to pay for even though no one sees the ads, clicks on them or visits my site because its a CPM buy and i'm only paying for ad displays, not clicks, but according to Paul, its just good business sense. Once i've done that enough, i'll just start buying sites to advertise on at an immense loss and then buy pornhub. Because Paul said thats how it works.

He would quite literally be the worst cult leader ever.

There would be the worst story, using the worst imaginable logic.

Even insane people would be like "Paul, i'm sorry to say this but i'm gonna have to head over to the Heavens Gate cult where they believe an alien ship is hiding in the tail of the Hale Bop Comet... and kill myself so they will take me off this planet... because quite frankly, they are making much more sense then you are"

profit!!!

FYI - If anyone is so inclined and wants to figure out how the campaign has performed to date despite Diesel having yet to run an ad, estimate the human labour costs in having their PR team compose and send a press release to existing media contacts, multiply that number by 1000 divide that number by the estimated total number of impressions they’ve received from having mentions over the past 5 days on lifestyle oriented sites which fit their demographic (Maxim/Details/Complex/Vogue), locally targeted sites in what I presume are two of their largest markets (Daily Mail-London/Daily Snooze-NYC), niche targeted gay sites (Out/Next), and all the hundreds of other relevant websites which have run the story and you'll get the estimated CPM to date.

If you understand marketing, you should know how powerful PR can be as a marketing tool so I’m pretty shocked that it has yet to be mentioned in a thread full of marketing experts.

While I haven't done the math, it does seem as if the campaign has gotten off to a rock solid start.

:2 cents:

it makes no sense to convolute the op when it's based on the assumption mainstream advertisers at pornhub are going to ruin it all by paying higher ad rates because they're mainstream.

lol, NAILED IT!

It's called "top-of-mind" brand marketing and it's very costly.

I find it more interesting that Diesel wants to buy cheap tube ads and have their product associated with porn -- that's interesting. The back and forth here is just mindless bullshit but entertaining :2 cents:

If you think diesel is launching a pornhub ad campaign to vie for top of the mind branding in the high end fashion industry, youre adding to the mindless bullshit that you find so entertaining.

Diesels not even in the top 20 brands in the luxury/high end fashion business.

Everyone keeps calling tube traffic "cheap". It is absolutely not cheap. Traffic value is exactly that. It's value. The value of traffic is determined by what people can make off of it. Feeder traffic is cheap,... because you can't milk much value out of it. Top tier tube NTVA ads are expensive because people are very good at milking a high amount of value out of them. There is nothing "cheap" about targeted cpm ads on pornhub or tube8 etc.

Still cheaper than where most mainstream sites would advertise Facebook, Twitter, Google etc... I made some concert ticket sales from my ticket brokerage on adult traffic and conversions were cheaper than the above 3 methods.

http://blog.eat24hours.com/how-to-ad...-porn-website/

Uhm... no. Facebook costs more because the targeting is vastly better, making it infinitely easier to target your exact demographic. You can target by sex, age, marital status, their political affiliations, things they like, their hobbies, their home town etc etc etc. The list is long and the options many. By the way, Facebook is another example of mainstream fortune 500 companies getting burned time and time again because they don't understand media buys. There is no shortage of large companies complaining about ads on facebook and no shortage of kids at home making 100k a month off that same traffic. In fact, there is probably no other ad platform online with targeting that is that good. Same with Google (depending on keyword areas) and also because some areas are worth more than others... ie "dog food" is not worth anything near "mesothelioma attorney".

You are confusing "cost per click" or "CPM rates" with "value". A cost per click or CPM is always relative to what a buyer can make off of it. That is determined by overall traffic quality and targeting options.

The idea that people are out there just throwing up ads to get eyes on a product is not only retarded, but it is an idea that came in 1998 and went out with the .com crash right after.

And that is exactly why they are buying the traffic.

And tube traffic is dirt cheap when you buy a lot of it :2 cents:

D'oh ...

Clearly you've never bought traffic. Pornhub traffic is far from dirt cheap. ANd as i've said countless times, the CPM or cost per click is irrelevant if the value is not there. A new Toyota Corolla is cheap, ... but its 100% irrelevant when i'm trying to make a profit on it. If i buy poorly at 15,000 and can only sell at 13,000.00 it doesn't matter that it only cost 15,000. If you buy a new Astin Martin at 224,000 to sell and can only sell for 225,000... the total cost is irrelevant to the value to you.

A company has to buy ads. Those ads have to have value. Cheap ads/traffic has less proportionately less value, regardless of your objective. You'd know this if you'd ever actually tried to buy traffic and could do it successfully.

and by the way, i'd love to see you try to successfully buy cam traffic on porn hub, genius. Let us know how "cheap traffic" and branding works out for you. You'll get rich for sure.

LMFAO :1orglaugh


Still trying to rub two nickels together I see ... go GFY

Conversion ratio is better on Facebook, Google due to that targeting. Doesn't matter if conversions aren't as good as mainstream traffic if the price of the adult traffic gives you substantially more traffic to make up for the lower conversion rate. So just depends on the spread. If double the adult traffic for the same price then yeah better to buy facebook/google traffic for mainstream shit, but if ya find an adult source giving ya a substantial difference in volume for the same price then there is room to make up for the lower conversion rate. All that matters at the end of the day is how much did I spend and what was my return. Whether that comes from lower volume quality targeted traffic or higher volume less targeted traffic is up to your testing to decide which campaign puts more profit in the bank at the lowest cost.

It is an auction based system in all cases. People pay on the high end of what its worth. Traffic price is always relative to traffic value. I can give you a list of 3000 adult sites right now where you can pay .01 per click. You'll burn piles of cash (many 1000.00's of dollars) and never see a single sale because its pure garbage. I can give you high CPM banners and give you a list of even more sites to target in exoclick. You'll never see a single sale. Ever. Not even if you spend many 1000.00's of dollars. In fact, i can give you a few that will spend 1000.00+ and you'll never see a single sale. It will be cheap as you spend many 1000s of dollars. I can give you a list of sites with cunts like looti.net and other arab forums which have bots click ads and going all the way through landing pages and join SOI offers and you'll be spending insane amounts of money and never make a single sale. There is a difference between cost and value.

The CPM/CPC is an average of the value of the traffic in auction based systems to the buyers. They are all auction based systems where buyers are trying to pay as much as they can to get as much as they can. They can't pay more than its worth and keep buying (though many that come and go do). Furthermore, its not cheap, It is slightly cheaper because the targeting and quality are much worse. Those factors are always relative to traffic price.

there are a lot of people here who are often wrong on their biz theories but who also occasionally get things right. I have never seen anyone as absolutely consistent in sputtering non-truths as Paul Markham.

He's definitely wrong if he thinks Diesel is paying higher rates. The more likely scenario is that they paid deeply discounted rates. Getting a big name mainstream advertiser like Diesel works wonders for PornHub's mainstream ambitions because it gives them tons of mainstream eyeballs from both pre-existing and new outlets, thereby opening future avenues for exposure, and also gives them a big name client to reference when selling space to potential future mainstream advertisers.

I’m sure all the marketing experts in this thread who know their space really well are aware of the fact that Diesel just recently ran a campaign on Tindr

Well at least the marketing team at Mindgeek is certainly savvy enough to have noticed as it was a highly publicized campaign and I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if after seeing those ads, they were the ones who initiated the dialogue with Diesel. It works so well for them that they may have even offered to give the ads for free.

But that’s all aside from the point and I could care less as to whether or not Paul took the short bus to arrive at the proper school of thought because the plan does also make a whole lot of sense for Diesel for multiple reasons even in the off chance they paid rate card rates.

The irony of it all is that that those who a bash Paul the loudest are the one who sound most like him.

:2 cents:

"card rate" that's a good one :2 cents:

I think what we may see happening is that the Millennials market is not so ''pornophobic'' and they will become (or are already) the new buyers of a lot of things.

I think that the same Millennials market is what is influencing the 'adult' entertainment industry causing the dislocation, and subsequent disruption, leading to a lot of old school assumptions and their business models being invalidated.

Keep buying those banners :upsidedow

i couldn't agree more. i also can't see any downside to diesel's campaign and all upside. they call themselves "street" and this supports that. besides, image building marketing is notoriously difficult to measure roi.

and sure it's good for pornhub, perhaps they can leverage it for other products that are street.

but in the 35,000 foot view of it all, this is a blip on the advertising radar of both companies. it's a marketing campaign in a marketing world of what have you done for me lately and has been pointed out, there's been no long term/recurring/returning mainstream marketing campaigns on pornhub, as far as i know.

and the reason i bash markham is on account of his talking about things he really doesn't know much about in a "i'm educating you on something you don't know anything about while getting marketing 101 concepts wrong" manner. magic join links style. same reason rochard is so annoying.

Whether it's life or ad buys the same principle exists: you get what you pay for.
Content is the same thing. While you can make pennies off of shitty content you can make millions off of superior content. Same thing with ads.

Basic business principles never change even when you "adapt or die".

So not even a fortune 500 tech company like facebook can hire quality media buyers yet you expect Paul to be the one who understand media buys? :)

Iâ??m not saying it will be a gamechanging campaign, just that the ideas behind itâ??s conception are based upon sound marketing fundamentals and that much of the logic used by people in this thread to predict itâ??s failure is way more wrong than the logic Paul has used in predicting itâ??s success. Time will only tell.

I donâ??t know of any long term/recurring/returning mainstream marketing campaigns which have run on Pornhub nor do I know of any unsuccessful attempts at running such a campaign. If such failures have indeed occurred I would love to hear about them so if you or anyone has that info, please share. Im pretty sure I would have heard about it had there ever been one but thereâ??s a chance I may have missed it so if you or anyone has that information, please share. Don't worry, I won't be holding my breath or anything.

:thumbsup

Everyone can pontificate all day long as to the value of piratebay traffic and a purported Coca Cola ad campaign there for example. Everyone can talk about what its worth, talk about how shitty the traffic it is or how great it is. They can talk about abstract, ill defined terms like "branding" and how useless it is to target "freeloaders" or how its a great move and so on.

All i need to do is open my old stats from exoclick buys and see exact numbers from piratebay.org and their many many mirrors that were also selling ads. I can see exact traffic performance numbers. I can see ad CTR's, I can see CPM / CTR costs. I can see the breakdowns on the types of traffic (by device, country, carrier, pc/mac etc etc etc etc), I can see how they acted on the landing page, I can see how many clicked through to the sponsor, I can see conversions at the sponsor. See the exact return on each ad spot and ad size/type and all the offers tested and form opinions based on actual data and actual experience. I can tell you exactly how many people will even see the ad per 1000 impressions.

Pretty much all i do in this biz is watch brokers, ads, landing pages, advertisers, offers and competitors.

Others can only theorize, speculate and make things up and make dire predictions based on nothing and just summarily dismiss actual knowledge and data as being "wrong".

Just another day on Gfy and a perfect example of why someone like Paul flunked out of the business and most others are just hobbiests. ;) Before Paul was lecturing on tubes all day long (which he knows nothing about), he was lecturing penthouse and playboy and all their photographers on how to take a photograph and comparing their work to his shitty, cookie cutter, tgp filler content - which today, he can't even give away.

I know a few Hollywood films have tried buying ad spots on the likes of PornHub (YouPorn, Redtube, etc). But I think those were shorter-term ads. Some were even in-video or post-video ads. None stuck around for long. They probably did it for the mianstream publicity. "Look, XYZ movie is advertising on a porn site!" kind of thing. TMZ, Entertainment Tonight et al eat that shit up and it's good for a weekend or two bump (which can be quite profitable). But as for actual products like Diesal I don't recall any.

It will be interesting to see how long Diesal does the ad buys. It may indeed be short-term.

Your problem is you can only see inside your bubble, even though it's transparent. Then reply with illogical arguments.

Your knowledge of how Tubes work is restricted to your traffic buying, your ads, your sponsors, your commission and your opinion. You don't know how a company like Diesel will fair on Tubes. You even think advertising companies only advertise to an audience looking for their product. So let me educate you.

Target Market, men who wear pants.
The audience, men who wear pants, if not at the time of viewing. Tubes have a better target market than a soccer crowd.

Cost. Peanuts.
Consumer reaction will be judged later.
Media Reaction. All is good for a company that advertises like Diesel and considered edgy.

The number of people who see the ad are the same as those who see yours. Your ads are 100% dependent on someone clicking and buying at the time. Theirs isn't, in fact, it doesn't matter if they buy at the time, it's the image that counts.

Again thinking as a porn webmaster. Every business looks to increase revenue, but not the way porn webmasters do.

Yes, if successful some will have to DIE. I adapted throughout my porn career. You're only looking at one platform of mine. Think outside of the obvious.

Only expensive if you're scraping a profit.

Still thinking like an affiliate. Diesel's "worth" is not your worth.

Tell that to MacDonalds.

Agreed. I have already mentioned this.

This is something they research and decide on. It will be a deal breaker. Advertising on Tindr is an indication.

Their buying power will rule. This isn't only Diesel, if it works, it can be a growing trend. Then affiliates who think Tubes is expensive traffic will be priced out.

The problem here is some people keep looking inward and see their experience and nothing else. They're convinced mainstream won't or can't advertise on Tubes. Because their experience makes it bad or limited successful for them. They even see Diesel's primary goal, the same as their's.

Once we step outside our bubbles we see a different world. A world where $100,000 is peanuts for what they get.

I'm sure real marketing people will know more about the cost of advertising on other platforms. Squealers $100,000 shows how he sees the world is restricted.

The crunch is will they do it, will they see the value and will others follow. Then what happens to little guys who think it's expensive and throw a wall up to avoid looking at what may happen.

i really don´t know if i should laugh or cry on that sentence.

porn is a market and a market does not live from a few people who can make it a little better than others - it lives from it´s efficiency.

i created more then 12 years ago the the phrase "sex sells but what?" because i could see this problem comming up in a biz where blind and oneeye-marketers are in charge of the gross income of a whole industry.

the prices for ads and CPM dropped that much, because nobody has or promotes a product this way, that he can pay more as he does.

every user on a pornsite is a fully qualified consumer - and if companies starting to understand that, it will bring much more money into the industry.

and the industry is not only reprenseted by webmasters, media buyers and affiliate programms. the industry are alos producers, hosters, designers, writers, models, programmers, SEOs and much much more....

you can not seriously think, that all these people should suffer, because you are not able to promote a product, what CAN make you enough money to pay the REAL VALUE of a customer you get into your hands.

and yes - even when the whole mainstream industry is promoting on pron sites (what will never happen) there will be still be a market for paid porn - but mybe not that unnessecary mass we have now.

a shrinking offer market will result in a higher price and more value.
and if a member of this future market is smart enough and have only a small clue of markets, he will realize, that every wanker he have in his programm is noct ONLY a wanker and he will change his marketing stratgey.

only what you can fill into a bottle can come out. and nature of marketing is, that and industry lives from filling up their bottle with the content of other industy´s bottles.

if you do not think so far, you will suffer while our industry delights on fishing in a much bigger lake with much more fish inside.

if it would be only allowed to promoto cowboy hats in a western movie, there would be no reason for anybody to produce such a movie.

realize that the time where porn was the product is over.
but porn is still the most wanted cheese from the mice population.

greetings

thommy

Paul please listen to people who actually earn a six figure+ income from being a Webmaster and media buyer TODAY. We are not "in a bubble" unable to look past porn. I am a mainstream journalist with experience in several mainstream businesses. I've worked for some of the largest media companies on Earth (Sony, Warner Bros, Universal, Disney, ABC, NBC, CBS....on and on).

You see Paul, the assumptions YOU make is anyone who posts here on GFY must be a dumb, inexperienced porner with nothing else to offer.

That would be you Sir, not us. :)

This is too fucking entertaining.

This has nothing to do with CTR or a direct conversion path.

What do you nitwits expect: The buyer will walk into the clothing retailer and tell the sales clerk he wants to see the Diesel clothing line because he saw their ad on a porn tube? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

How fucking lame ...

for sure he will not - but he will also not go to the retailer and tell him that he saw an ad on a weather forcast site.

this big brands are anyway thinking lonterm - they do not expect a sale but set their marketing goal in relation to their prominency.

that is a very other marketing model then ours and it will bring fresh money in our biz.

if i ask you if you where reading the newspaper today you might say yes but you will not be able to tell me who has advertised there.

but if an ad would be that effectless as it seems the advertising biz would be killed since centuries.

i am really exited how these things will effect the market and if we can see here a real change of the market in one near future.

greetings

thommy

What i am talking about is a competent understanding of the advertising medium itself. How it works... inside and out. The quality of the eyes on the ad. Who they are. What they want. What they are interested in. The competition. How to get eyes on an ad. How to get a message noticed. How to compete for the users attention with the video - which uhm... hello!? is why the user is there to begin with. I am forgetting the extent to which i need to hold your hand and dumb it down for you. Or... oh... you're now going to argue that advertisers don't really know anything about who they advertise to or the medium they use and thats just perfectly normal? Makes sense, Paul. I mean... barry.

PR efforts aside, anyone who actually knows anything about media, these sites, their traffic, the competition and so on, buys fully understands that it will cost them a lot more and they will get next to zero benefit. So yeah, you have to keep saying "its about branding" like no one gets that. It doesn't matter what the intention is.,,, lead generation or "branding" if you can't get the attention of the user, get the attention of qualified users in your exact demographic and get into their head - it doesn't matter what your objective is... branding, lead gen etc. It all requires understanding how to target qualified prospects and a competent understanding of the medium.

I understand that you geniuses have it all worked out that just throwing up an ad is all you have to do. f course you can't do it and you don't - but you know all about it. As i've tried to explain in 20 different ways, it still doesn't mean the audience is the right audience. The medium is the right medium. Or that the benefit in any way at all, outweighs the cost. This is how advertising works you know. You have to know the medium well to make it work on any level.

You people are literally so dumb, that you think that after over 10 years of tubes hogging all the traffic and selling billions of hits and likely trillions of impressions, this makes sense for mainstream companies .... and even funnier, you are willing to believe that it hasn't be tried time and time again with miserable results.

And Barry, you can stop with the BS of implying you buy a lot of traffic and have some sort of competent understanding of media buys. Every member of this forum can start combing tubes and tgps and blogs right now for any paid links leading to you and they won't find them.

What is even more surreal is that many of you on this forum, Pail most of all has argued and argued and argued that tube traffic is worthless. And now, suddenly, its gold. Makes sense. Suddenly its being argued that the glory days are back because every crappy shooter will be shooting to fill tubes so that GE and Coca Cola and Martha Steward can buy the ad space at a premium rate for "branding". Yay for you, geniuses.