Is this one of the methods by which you wish to "control" the environment?

Delaying future sea-level rise by storing water in Antarctica

You people are certifiably nuts and you need to be stopped before you actually destroy the planet while trying to "save" it.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."



.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

holy shit i almost spit out my coffee.

I have a buddy like this, the second he realizes he can't keep up with the conversation. It always boils back to his imaginary points how he "cares" so much about mankind and the world more than everyone else.

Hi Eon,

By control, I mean it is we humans that are causing the rise in the temperature. And by control, I mean because it is within our power to to stop it from happening.


I'm sure you care as much as your friend does and I do. What I'm attempting to do is have a serious conversation on the subject. It's not necessary to get emotional or political even.

Think about it like this. Everyone on GFY uses impressive technology to run their businesses, technology that was unheard of 25 years ago. To our parents and grandparents, we might all be seen as tech wizards or at least, pretty dam smart. The science on climate change including all of its data is here at our fingertips. Surely a bunch of smart people like you and me that care about the planet, like you and me, can discuss the issue, no?

Hey Robby:

I have a question for you.

When your car burns gas, where do you think the exhaust goes?

Ya, they supposedly care about people and the environment more than everyone else but they don't seem to care when:
- granny can no longer afford to pay her electricty bill so she freezes in the dark;
- when businesses close because their energy costs are too high;
- when people are starving because we are burning food for fuel;
- when we are clearcutting forests to grow the biofuels in the previous point;
- when orangutans are endangered because of the previous two points;
- when deforestation actually does more harm than the problem they are trying to correct;
- etc., etc.....


There is zero proof that we are causing the rise in temperature. There is zero proof that the temperature rise is a problem. There is zero proof that we can do anything about one way or another.

To assume that we can stop the temperature from rising is to assume that natural climate variability has stopped completely and that we are the sole cause of it from here on out. Are you prepared to make that claim?


.

No, you're mistaken. There is lots of proof. In basic terms, we are producing gasses such as Carbon Dioxide and Methane. Both of these are called "greenhouse gasses" because they rise high into the atmosphere and trap much of the heat that is usually radiated by planet into space, and instead is reflected back down. Since less heat can escape, more heat remains in our environment, slowly raising the average temperature.

We are also cutting down trees at crazy rate. Trees absorb Carbon Dioxide from the air. Less CO2 means less heat reflecting back.

What are doing 2 really bad things at the same time. We're polluting more, and simultaneously making it harder for the earth to heal itself.


Yes it is a big problem. A warmer climate means less ice arctic ice, shorter winters, stronger storms, more flooding in some places and more drought in other places. The cost of all of these things means some people lose property or crops, or suffer more damage than they should. It also means changing migration patterns for animals, loss of sea life, etc.

It's looking pretty bleak for sure, and some scientists are already saying its too late, but I don't want to give up yet. I'm pretty sure there are lots of things that we can do to help at least first slow down the rate of increase, and then maybe, hopefully, reverse the trend.



Sort of, but let me break up what you said a little to clarify my beliefs on each issue.

You said:
These 2 things are not necessarily in lock step. I think that the climate is changing naturally, but slowly, all on its own. I also think that we are contributing to that change.


You said:
We may or may not be the sole cause, but lets say that we are not - it does not matter. If the climate is getting warmer and disastrous in the (near) future, then it makes sense to for us today to try to find a way to prevent it or at least, reduce the impact. Speaking in strict financial terms, we would save a lot of money, and new industries born from it would create more jobs, etc.

Mark, please don't speak to me like I'm in day 1 of your indoctrination camp. Not to be offensive but you seem very naive, misinformed and gullible. It all comes across as very Orwellian and you just ramp up the doublespeak whenever someone tries to counter one of your points. If you honestly think that that's all there is to how the atmosphere works then there is no helping you out of your cycle of ignorance.

Speaking of Orwell, thanks to people like you we have shit like this coming down the pipe:

US Attorney General: We?ve ?Discussed? Prosecuting Climate Change Deniers

Is that something you're down for? Do you honestly believe that any scientist in the employ of the government can say anything other than "the world is heating up and we're all going to fry unless we all get a Tesla"? Do you honestly believe that the NOAA can be taken seriously as an impartial body?

Do you think that hearing shit like this encourages independent skeptical scientists to publish research that runs contrary to the now almost legally imposed doctrine? Are you okay with this level of authoritarianism and the end of open science?

1984 was a novel not an instruction manual.



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Hey Mark: 0.85 degrees Celsius since 1880 forward (the end of the Little Ice Age).

'Nuff said. The whole thing is a money making scam.

OMG stop saying things. You're an idiot.

All you need to know is the people denying climate change are going to do it no matter what data they're shown, because they have their own fucked up reasons.

It's funny that these are also the same folks who don't want women to have abortions, want less government, love firearms and hate immigrants and gay people.

OMG stop saying things. You're an idiot.

That doesn't work for you.

You're only half as smart as you think you are, and most likely twice as ugly, little man.

They don't care about history - that's why they rewrite it to suit their own needs. They just know what their super fancy crystal ball computer models tell them - "the world is going to burst into flame if we don't stop burning oil!"


You're not kidding - he just keeps saying the same thing over and over:



.

I am not to speak to you in any way at all. I'm trying to discuss the facts as presented in science text books, as reported by scientists, etc.

However, you gave me a good idea. Not to "speak down" to you - I promise I am not trying to sound like that - but what if we start with the very basics. This is not to call you or me dumb - what I am proposing is a basic framework of facts that you and I can both agree on, as a base to build a discussion on. I am talking about really basic stuff - and then simply, 1 item at a time, you and I can try to prove each of our points to the other if we disagree.

What do you think?


Robbie you didn't answer my question. I asked you "When your car burns gas, where do you think the exhaust goes?"

I am asking you this to propose the same idea I just proposed to Eon. Without getting mad and calling each other names, let's see if we can least all agree on the very basics - the teeniest, tiniest basics - and then add layers as we go until one of us disagrees with the other - and lets see if we can get to all of the facts.

What do you think?

I am in no way a geologist but I'm pretty sure the flintstones did it...

Thats the global warming problem its not just USA

People will say anything to hang onto their SUVs.

The Earth is getting warmer. That means lower crop yields, lower meat production. This will force prices up and up till many won't have any.

http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/6...lrg%5B1%5D.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Comparison.png

http://www.worldclimatereport.com/wp...temps_fig2.gif

http://www1.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/c...-1880-2009.gif

While some politicians try to convince you it's just nature doing what it always does. They get away with doing nothing to protect us. Good to see how some swallow the spin.

What are Governments doing to protect people, where are the dikes to protect low-lying areas, the levees for protection against rivers or cities flooding, the reservoirs to keep more water, the laws demanding new houses are built with measures to withstand disasters, the thinking about feeding people when food production plummets, etc?

Man-made or Nature. It's happening and no one is doing a lot to deflect the coming disaster. So yes for manty the end is nigh.

http://assets.bwbx.io/images/is8Hos.WbVfA/v2/750x-1.jpg

http://www.frontpagemag.com/sites/de...NIADROUGHT.jpg

But don't worry, it's just god hugging us a little closer. LOL

:1orglaugh

He's a sad sad little man. His wife is a teacher. Need I explain more about where his views come from?

The whole Global Warming Hoax plays on the philosophies of anti-man, anti-life losers who want to believe man is not natural (they think THEY are natural, but not you) because they are Authoritarians.

Authoritarians are always exploited by other Authoritarians. They love to go along with it because then they can be... Authoritarians :2 cents:

http://www.globalwarmingart.com/imag...redictions.png

http://papers.risingsea.net/images-f..._chart-big.gif

http://appinsys.com/globalwarming/GW...s/image001.jpg

WHEN SHOULD WE START GETTING CONCERNED?

My bad.

I should have never convinced those 7,000,000,000 people to simultaneously burn wood for heat.

:(

Better follow the money on your falsified Projections, charts and graphs there Hombre.

When Al Gore flys over in his Carbon Tax paid for Jet to watch you suffer before you cease to exist?
2 birds with one stone :2 cents:

Hey Robby: 3rd time asking you my friend : Where does the exhaust from a tailpipe go?

If you're convinced that I'm just a brainwashed hippie libitard with no knowledge of any scientific facts, then come on, let's have a basic-science conversation. You can I can start at Grade 1 and agree to the most simplest of terms as we go. If and when we disagree on an item, we will do our best to prove our points. Deal?

Into the air.

Now why don't YOU address why people are making BILLIONS of dollars because the Earth is NATURALLY warming up after the "Little Ice Age" and so far has warmed up 0.85 degrees Celsius.

I know that you aren't dumb. But I also know human nature. You fell for a scam and now you don't want to back down. So the Emperor has no clothes.

That's why discussing it with you is always a waste of time. You scream "science" and "NASA"...yep. And both science and NASA say that the Earth has warmed up 0.85 degrees Celsius since 1880. And both agree that the Earth SHOULD warm back up after the Little Ice Age period had cooled it down.

THAT is science.

crazy how the dumb liberals panic about global warming, something that will effect our children & grandchildren.

but the national debt? NOT A WORD!!! guess children getting saddled with debts rung up by liberals is no big deal. having an economy tank cause the govt is too broke for bailouts, no big deal. nobody can get a job anymore, no big deal.

the big deal is that will be 2 degrees hotter in 100 years. some penguins will die.

liberals. :1orglaugh

It would have to exist to be a good thing.... Just saying.

THat's right. It goes into the air. When gasoline burns in a combustion engine, its exhaust, which includes gasses like Nitrogen oxides, Ozone, and Carbon Monoxide which I'm sure you've heard of. It also contains Carbon Dioxide and water vapour. All of this goes into the air. 1 car by itself, no big deal. Thousands of cars, meh. Millions of cars each day, every day putting all this stuff into the air, maybe kinda makes you think a little though, right?

So far so good? Do we agree on these points?

Mark we've already been through this nonsensical discussion before.
Man is not causing "global warming" It's a scam.

0.85 degrees Celsius in 136 years of recorded global temps which came AFTER an elongated period of the Earth cooling.

But if you want to pretend that you have no memory...I'll say it again: One Aircraft Carrier in the U.S. navy puts out more of a "carbon footprint" than all the cars.
And yet Pres. Obama just keeps that military machine rolling now doesn't he?

IF it were a real threat...don't you think that the aircraft carriers would be docked? That the tanks and Humvees would be parked? That all the military jets flying and BOMBING (how much pollution is that?) all around the world would be grounded.

You are acting ignorant on purpose trying to "prove" something you have been tricked into believing.

I can't stop that. It's human nature for you to do this defensively.

But please don't come on an Adult business board with this constant droning on about this stupidity.
Go sign up for a liberal pro-govt. message board and share your anxiety and angst there with your fellow believers.

well, see ya'll for the next end is neighhhhh thread. however i feel like i have already read it

http://i.imgur.com/P5V1T2A.jpg

Why do you think they're falsified? Just show the projections you think are real.

To make it easy here's a link.

https://www.google.cz/search?q=us+te...8k2kCVuTiSM%3A

Man made or Nature. It kills. Air pollution illnesses.

Ignore that though. What is your Government doing to protect you from rising seas, food scarcity, etc?

NASA, NOAA Analyses Reveal Record-Shattering Global Temperatures | NASA

The polar caps will melt at a 3 degree rise. We have been there. No people existed but we were there.

I am constantly amazed that you think it is fake since the govt isn't stopping it. From your stance on other stuff I always find this bit more then odd.

poor ********** soiling himself with another liberal whining thread about global warming caused by el nino.

regardless that nobody has any idea how or why el ninos form. Its just this giant input of heat that causes dumb liberals to blame people for the hot air. didnt markprice say we are making the el nino warming worse in this thread? no proof at all of this. nothing from NASA. just **********, winging it.

doesnt matter. Mankind follows the laws of darwin. & when hurricane katrina happened, it shows a microcosm of how life evolves. dumb people live where its not viable. they die, or move. Now the residents left in New Orleans are stronger. Next round, the weakest will get pared again.

this process is what makes the human race gradually stronger. the smart ones survive, the dumbasses die. & this is why global warming FEARS are the hoax, not the man-made warming part.

we will warm the earth, & everything will be fine. The liberal urban hipster **********s will get slaughtered one day when their city is shut down by floods. But the strong will survive.

:)

You are deluded, misinformed and gullible. Do you write for the Guardian?

Poor manty. We never even knew ye.


Maybe when reality starts to match their scary projections. The fact is their projections and predictions have all been wrong. How much snake oil do you want to buy before you catch on?


Go for it. You start.


Not sure what it is that you are "just sayin".


Please supply exact figures on how many people die each year directly from increased CO2 and/or temperature.

You sound overly reliant on government. Do you need them to wipe your ass too?

A great leader once said - "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." You are the opposite of that.

Meanwhile, my government is taxing the shit out of everything, increasing the cost of everything, building debt loads that will cripple every future generation and reducing the temperature of the planet by exactly 0 degrees.


3 degrees? Data please. The Eemian interglacial was a couple degrees warmer than now and the ice caps survived just fine.

The rest of what you said makes no sense whatsoever.



.

Come on robby, don't pussy-out. We're having a discussion. Please stay on-topic and lets discuss 1 item at a time. I promise we will get to other topics. For now, I am trying to establish a base of things we can agree on.

My last question to you was:


do you agree?

99.99% of people would die if they had to fend for themselves. Even bullets run out and that's assuming there's enough wildlife to keep people fed who are used to eating at a MacBurger's.

Thinking what's coming will be like Katrina shows a lack of knowledge.

Evolution laws cover extinction.

Joshua, what I'm trying to do is talk about the science of it. I know it might be difficult, but lets leave politics out of it for the time being, and concentrate the conversation on the very basics first.


No, El Niño is a naturally occurring event in the equatorial region which causes temporary changes in the world climate. Originally, El Niño was the name used for warmer than normal sea surface temperatures in the Pacific Ocean off the coast of South America. What Is El Niño?



NASA: Worst of El Nino Still to Come. With Climate Change in the Mix, 2015-2016 Event May Equal Most Devastating On Record | robertscribbler

Global Warming May Worsen Effects of El Niño, La Niña Events | Climate Central

News | NASA Studying 2015 El Niño Event As Never Before

https://sealevel.jpl.nasa.gov/scienc...do/latestdata/


Where do you live?


People who sit and wait for things instead of taking action usually die off faster too.

Of course the strong will survive. The only problem with that is that the world we survive it might not be a beautiful. The air and water might not be as clean, and food might not be as abundant. Oh and millions more people may starve to death, not to mention animals and sea life. But hey, as long as you Joshua are alive that's all that matters, right? peace.

Show me facts that show the Earth isn't getting warmer.

It's a slow process.

Your turn to show facts.

Like you I rely on shops having food.

Can you build the necessary dikes and levies to protect your home. Or when food gets short protect you from better-armed gangs?

So all this is about is you getting more money to spend. OK, I see where you're coming from.

I don't think Governments can stop anything. They can't stop air pollution, global warming or any natural disaster. I expect them to have a plan on what happens when the climate changes, as it is. And they don't have a clue.

Show me were I ever said it isn't getting warmer.



.

It's been a fairly mild winter here in Winnipeg, a place widely known for it's often brutal winters.

Score one for El Niño!

Yes, so slow that they can over-hype it for decades before being proven wrong about it.


None of that has to do with CO2 or temperature. CO2 is not air pollution in the sense you are thinking. It is not air pollution at all. It is a life giving gas that is necessary and vital to life on earth.


People don't have to live on flood plains anymore.

Better armed gangs? What is this the Walking Dead? If you think a degree or two of warming is the apocalypse then I want some of what you are smoking.


Typical attitude of a leftist. Is it too much too ask for a fiscally responsible government?

The armed gangs you fear will come when society financially collapses because of misguided, bankrupt and corrupt governments. And chances are that the armed gangs will be the government you love so dearly.


Well you got that right. They are spending billions or trillions of dollars trying to "stop" the warming by reducing CO2. That is all money that could be better spent building dikes around your house, keeping food in your shops, protecting you from armed gangs and stopping real environmental damage and pollution.



.

Ya exactly. I am not sure what all of these alarmists and doomsayers have against warmth. Warm = good. Cold = bad.



.

It is getting warmer, naturally, as it has on and off for a few billion years without us, and it will continue to do the same over long periods of time with us. Do we have an affect on it? sure some, not enough to break it...

:2 cents:



.

0.85 degrees warmer since the end of the Little Ice Age as the Earth naturally warms back up slightly.

All the rest of this nonsense is gibberish that has no meaning. CO2 is not pollution. Never has been and never will be.

Mankind has not and can not lower the temperatures by ANY degrees at all.

Show me any proof that we are capable of that.
You can't?

That's right. And we can't raise them either. We can't even make it rain...much less change the entire planet on a global scale.

You Alarmists are the perfect target for scam and con artists. You believe anything. Even when reality is staring you right in the face with FACTS:

The Earth warms and cools and has done so since the beginning of the planet.

The little Ice Age ended in the mid 1800's...the Earth naturally is warming back up to where it was.

The ENTIRE global temperature has risen ONLY 0.85 degree Celsius since 1880

And finally...EVERY prediction made by scientists on the payroll of people who profit from scaring the sheep has been 100% WRONG each and EVERY time.

Unbelievable that anyone could even argue this when everything points the other way. I guess that's how a lot of people get taken advantage of by con artists.

Come on Robby, I'm trying to have a nice, calm, intelligent conversation with you. Here is the 3rd time I'm asking this:

Lots of cars = lots of gasses going into the air, right? Do you agree, or do you disagree? Simple question my friend... Let's work on the basic agreements first and then I promise we can talk about the other points you bring up.

Here's just a few. Simply look it up.

The fiddling with temperature data is the biggest science scandal ever

NOAA 'adjusts' global warming data the same way the Fed and BLS 'revise' economic data

NOAA/NASA Dramatically Altered US Temperatures After The Year 2000

Dishonest global warming reports are good, as long as they promote certain agenda, paper says

DOOM & GLOOM CLIMATE FRAUDSTERS EXPOSED


And on and on....

.

That kind of stuff gives them a severe case of cognitive dissonance. And then they resort to this:

http://i.imgur.com/B5D6n0h.jpg



.

There are no "other points". Cars emissions are the cleanest in history. Our air is cleaner than at any time since the beginning of the industrial revolution.

You are talking nonsense. The military and the Govt. have the biggest "carbon footprint" in the world. Not the people.

WE shouldn't be punished for their made up nonsense while THEY hypocritically do what they say is "bad" in a manner that is exponentially higher than the entire population.

Wake up Mark, you're being suckered.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh where have you been?