"admin level partner" would be expected to do the work, while you provide "resources"... making it a fair partnership... maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds like Shap doesn't want to do the "work", he wants a consulting gig, nothing wrong with that, but like "Google Expert" said, it's not very surprising that not many people want to give away a % of their existing business for what will likely turn into not much more than a few tips...

not sure if Shap has tried that already, but he should probably partner up with some company on "results based" basis, i.e. "I'll work with you for 6 months, when within 6 months your income improves by XX, I get XXXX, if not I get nothing"... under that scenario I'm sure there would be way more takers...

Employee maybe. Based on productivity.

Partner? Doubt it.

His current lack of any business or otherwise meaningful affiliation (despite numerous attempts to jump right back in after the buyout) should tell you something of what he has to offer (not much).

Reading his threads over these years gives me a clear idea of what he's after: trying out something new without risking his own money (i.e. on someone elses expense). If you're up for it - got right ahead, it will be interesting to watch.

Actually, I was never approached by someone who told me he could make me rich...

The ones who contacted me about partnerships in the past were all pretty honest and real and no one promised golden rivers.

You keep telling people you can't get rich with paysites... Well... let's not forget this Paul... Who says people starting up paysites in 2016 expect to get rich? Maybe they want to do something they are passionate about on a day to day basis. What's wrong with doing what you like daily... far from getting rich, but happy and happy with a decent income. That's still better than being exploited and ass raped by the Walmart's of this world.

I'll send you an email...

Yeah Paul, why should we listen to old timers who made it big when making it big was easy? Hopefully your endless paragraphs of sage advice will stop now.

SHAP: Let me lay out for you the reason why no one has taken you up on your many offers of "help" (including me):

Instead of having any skin in the game (money) you want to give your sage advice. Great! So a Program approaches you and says, "I need another 100K hits a day and based on my conversion ratios and experience we would kill it."

You: "OK, do X,Y and Z."

Program: "But if I do that it will take me x number of months/years to organically build those traffic sources. If you pony up 50K we can get those traffic sources built in a few months and jump-start this thing. If it's going to take me years to build something myself what do I need you for?"

You: "Um..."

Get it? Your advice is useful ONLY if it is actionable. If the Program has to do it all by themselves (invest their own resources) guess what? We don't need your advice. LOL

Sorry man but those are the realities. Put up or shut up. :)

Very good advice Shap--especially about planning ahead.

my take is that most of the ideas you were pitched were shit. money is cheap these days. if the idea is good, money will find its way to it, even in adult. so if they are asking for money, is cause the project is weak. which is kind of sad because i think your input would be so much more valuable that the $$$ you would put.

Totally agree on this :thumbsup:thumbsup

While I am sure some of the ideas were pure shit and/or not worth Shap's time or resources I am ALSO sure some of the ideas were good and just require some investment more than advice.

My world is very positive, it just the porn industry that leads me to the negative side. Can you see any real evidence that it's growing?

Tubes dominate the industry by giving away what we once sold. Cams are changing and the positive thing now is models don't need to be tied up in a studio, they can work from home. They don't even need affiliates as much as they did. In the future models will be making a lot more, affiliates a lot less.

Dating is also undergoing a change, apps like Tinder are going to take even bigger chunks out of that market.

Agreed, if people want to do porn instead of work for Walmart level wages. They should go for it.

The part of the business I was in was tough, which is why few online content producers could get in. But yes selling our content online was easy.

My advice is, do not do what worked in 2004.

Can you fault that?

:1orglaugh

I didn't say that you can't make more than a Walmart salary with a paysite:1orglaugh
That's what you make of it:1orglaugh

trolls gotta troll

Honestly, I've heard <insert threat to industry here> since I started in this business in 1995/96. Cheap domains, cheap hosting, free hosting, free sites, TGP's, MGP's, forums, file lockers, p2p networks, blogs, tubes, social media, Bing, Google, ICM Registry, etc. 20 years later and the sky is still falling. Yet, some of us are still here and doing fine. Of course we're not still trying to do exactly what we did 15 years ago, but with some slight nuances and varying approaches, the ultimate target is the same. Truth is, some will find a way to work effectively in an ever evolving business while others will not, or can not.

That said, I've always held the belief that you have the power to make yourself invaluable to a company. And that holds true for any line of work, from brick and mortar to online. YOU have the power to make yourself an invaluable asset.

So yes, there is definitely money to be made online, including affiliate sales.

In any case, thanks for answering the question. The majority of your posts seem negative and make you often times sound rather bitter. Whether true or not, I was genuinely curious, that's all.

Enjoy your evening.

No, but you assume many are still doing what they did in 2004. There are limitations to the paysite business model but that does not mean there's no money left in them. Expectations are what need to be adjusted, that's all. Fifty sales a day in 2004 was great but 5 sales a day now is the norm so adjust accordingly or go sell shoes. :)

No thanks for me did that once, did Not worked out well, back in Adult now :1orglaugh

This brings me back to a such a cool time in the biz... good times. The content you mentioned was pretty good for its time though. I remember checking those content sites weekly for new content for AVS updates... Crissy M, Gauge, etc. haha... Phoenix had some of the best customer service too.

Let's build a time machine! :1orglaugh

JokersX had some of the best sets of Veronika Zemanova anywhere. She drew a lot of traffic and those sets were worth every penny as a direct result. I'd go so far as to say the JokersX sets of Veronika Zemanova probably generated more ROI for me than any other softcore set I ever purchased :)

Well some customers get upset when you suck on their toes.

Depends on the customer, of course. :D

Your really mean :1orglaugh

The major pain in my ass, as you know very well, is that I have too much stuff going on at once. If someone liked a particular project exceptionally well, for example putting up a tube or clip sale site on a domain like interracialsex.com and wanted to run it, oversee the construction and make the decisions in exchange for a % that's a good deal for me. But only if I think they might make a success out of it. Money is too tight to pay a significant fee for just 'consulting'.

You did say they could do it for little more than liking it.

Please post proof of people starting up and making 6 figure profits after a couple of years.

Agreed that people here are very negative about outside forces. The truth is since we started to do TGPs, ratios have got worse. The only thing that countered this were new surfers coming online. Once that stopped the decline set. Giving away more than any site could offer, was the last nail in the coffin.

There's still money to be made, look at the big Tubes for instance or sites that Met-Art and Mindgeek own, Adam and Eve are still doing well.

As well as they did last year? Better than they will do next year?

The limitations are in your mind. Be positive and rethink how to build a site people want, not one they might join.

Yes, there's still money left, just not as much as there was yet more than there will be.

That's how a decline works.

Most who were here in 2008 are now gone.

No worries amigo :) I am sure you got like 350+ emails so missing one or two is quite good score :winkwink:

I want to see this too.
So many big sponsors closed their once-hugely successful businesses, why?

I really really want to see the kind of money paysite owners are making now because I was about to invest in making one but now not so sure.

What kind of answer are you expecting? There are guys doing $x and others doing $xxxxx a day. Hope that helps ;)

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

You don't know what I said... it's all subjective...

Please post proof with screenshots that once you stopped shooting and updating next year your sales only declined 20%...

Now common and proof it mister Paul Proofham

The only indications we have are the reluctance to pay affiliates, content producers, cut back on content production. And the exodus of affiliates away from promoting paysites it promoting cams, dating, mainstream or even working offline.

Then people selling their sites. Mainly because updating them with quality content wasn't viable. There was a post recently with people suggesting Shap take over a site that has stopped updating with quality content. Affiliates immediately assume the company isn't being run properly. Maybe the joins aren't good enough to buy top-drawer content.

The reason why so many are getting out is the ROI is becoming pointless.

https://metartmoney.com/
Juggcash: Brazzers Affiliate Program - Make Money Online Fast
FameDollars Affiliate Websites

How many of these were independent sites back in the day?

As soon as you show the proof I asked for. Or is that your way of saying you can't post proof.

What about people who were only vaguely relevant 30 years ago giving business advice in 2016?

What Roald said.

Start a paysite and find out what YOU can squeeze out of it...

You ask me to post proof of claims I never made... like I said it's all subjective. What you ask from me says more about you than it says anything about what I said... Read again...

Why wouldn't you post proof? There are only 2 phrases in your vocabulary: "decline" and "post proof":1orglaugh So please after all your requests of posting proof in numerous threads... show us yours:

Show us prove that when you stopped producing and updating the decline after the first year was only 20%. Stop the "you show first" bullshit... you act like a adolescent with an authority problem...

You too :)

Smart man :thumbsup

Most of my posts have a reason. This one was to shake out and see what else may come from it. I've actually got as many if not better emails from this post than I did from the buying one. :thumbsup

If those people were right in predicting the future why not?

I predicted the decline of sold porn to free porn 16 years ago. Was I right or wrong?

I predicted that the industry would be dominated by a few companies and their sites. Was I right or wrong?

I predicted that once new surfers, from countries we can bill, started to decline. Sales would. Now there are no new surfers. The consequences are evident.

I predicted that most affiliates would be sidelined. Was I right or wrong?

There's still money to be made. My point is most of you are making a lot less than you were last year and a lot more than you will next year by selling paysites memberships. Am I right or wrong?

A prediction for the future. Bookmark it.

The traditional paysite has to change, they can't beat Tubes giving away 10,000s of free videos that are just as good to the consumer. The site has to work hard at making the surfer fall in love with the girls. A lot more than the Solo Girl sites of the past did. I'm assuming some can do this.

Webcams are changing. Third World Studios with boring girls who are hoping someone passing by likes her. Will lose to Independent girls who work hard at promoting themselves. This is already happening it will just get bigger.

Dating will move to Apps that are cheaper and better for users. This is already happening it will just get bigger.

So we can see the result of these emails soon as you join a site and start working on it. Be sure to tell us who they are once you sign up. :helpme

The difference between tube surfers & paysite members is crack in a motel 6 with a hooker vs coke in a 5 star with views, valet, room service and high end call girl. Or not. You are brainwashed to think there's no money and you think you're more than you're worth and price yourself out of ANY opportunity. I know You want to work, learn & adapt but you're sabotaging yourself. Your life could be what you know it should be but you're boxing yourself in for no reason but to suffer.

Nothing wrong with saying "teach me" instead of "I knew" "I know"

Just an observation.

Doesn't matter. The stats on conversions prove my point. If the difference was as great as you say. Conversions would be far better.

I don't want to or need to work. I'm out with my ill-gotten gains.

I have never said there's no money in porn. Just less. If you have to lie about what I say. You lose.

So teach us all about the future of online porn. You sold to Bookpress/Payserve because you couldn't keep your sites going. Is that what you have to teach us?