I guess my point is that it should have NEVER cost $18,000 for your mom falling and busting her head open.
I would be very curious about what the "real" cost of that was. Not what the hospital and insurance company make up on the paperwork...but the actual cost and money that exchanged hands between insurance company and hospital.
That is the amount that we (the consumer) are never allowed to see.

Your mom falling and getting hurt pretty badly shouldn't BE a "big ticket item". They are ripping us off.

Are you being funny or serious? I couldn't quite tell there, because people that have been here for this long are obviously not fake accounts. We just choose to not spend all day on a board that is of no value anymore to the industry at large. I know you, you know me but I don't publicly display who I am. I have one account here made in the very beginning of 2002 when I first started with pushing paysites thru ARS, Maxcash and CEN and some thru Flashcash,join4free and adultcheck, I used to surf JBM a lot too but never made an account there. I know Brad and Greg, purchased tons of content from them as well as from..........lightspeed too :) Some of those first tawnee stone sets that were available to be sold. I still have them and the license to use them. I've seen more and know more than bladewire could ever realize. Reason for low post count? I don't sit here all day and post, I work, I've worked at several big programs for years. So those of you who think this is fake? You are really out of your mind, you don't see old school original on here much anymore because like I said it's a waste of time. I honestly check in maybe once every few days sometimes weeks will go by before I visit to see if anything useful is here. I state my opinion like anyone else that's why it's always the same? Is that a hard concept to understand? Why is it because I have a different opinion that makes me fake? That sounds like that wonderful liberal tolerance libs are often preaching right :)

Yep they're fucking us, they have it down to a science. The insurance companies, hospital administrators & drug companies are like a cartel. The hospital admins are the worst because they fuck over the patients, insurance companies and their own nurses & doctors.

An elderly person falling down and "busting" her head sounds a bit serious?

CT scan $1,200
and if necessary
MRI $2,611
ER room and sutures $1,800

I am assuming a minor head injury with an open wound ... price check done with Google (your results may vary).

So, $5,600 if she is released from the ER and not held overnight.

I am going to guess Medicaid would have reimbursed $1,700, Medicare reimbursed $2,100, private insurer $5,600 -- with the schmuck off the street full retail price being $18,000 maybe.

How much is an MRI machine?
For example, the cost of a CT scanner can be as low as $65,000 for a refurbished one that produces only small images quickly. A larger and brand new CT scanner can run as high as $2.5 million. Prices are slightly higher for MRI machines, running up to about $3 million for a new machine.Jul 21, 2014

bc -l <<< 2000000/4000
500.00

4000 scans $500ea + technicians and a radiologist's opinion = $800 cost maybe

A lot of the fluff + pad to insured contact rates is in compensation of lower government reimbursements. The high retail rates for cash pays includes overage for non-payment rates of the uninsured. If uninsured do not pay the US government pays 18% of the amount charged

"Ultimately, hospitals are left to absorb at least two-thirds of the cost of all of this uncompensated care, the researchers estimate."

Problem is this is just too complex to comprehend.
This is why Medicare for all has to be. Healthcare insurance to be only available to obtain more than the basic services provided "included" to all.

A new consumption tax will be needed to pay for this -- but you will not pay insurance premiums anymore. Apart from a VAT tax (? 7%) needed a transaction tax of 1% or 2% will be needed on investment securities and real estate ownership transfers.

Let's say enough to raise 66% of the $2.5 Trillion spent on non Medicare payments.
Limit medical spending to $6,600 from $10,000 per person.

Let the government be the bully negotiating medical services and pharmaceutical prices. Let the rapist get it up the ass for a change :2 cents:

Cut the bullshit and bite the bullet.

Not really. They charge $5 for a paper Dixie cup to take the $10 Tylenol pill. They make up these insane prices and then "negotiate" with the insurance company which then pays the REAL amount to the hospital.

But both the hospital and the insurance companies show the govt. the inflated price that neither paid.

It's a pretty simple scam. It did not used to be this way. This started happening in the mid 1980's when "HMO's" were introduced by govt.

And just like every thing the govt. gets involved in...the prices began to climb. And when the govt. got 100% involved in 2009 with ObamaCare? Prices exploded.

The excuse I heard from folks like you who clamor to have taxpayers pay your medical bills was that the reason the Dixie Cup was $5 and the single Tylenol was $10 was because there were so many uninsured people driving up the cost. And once ObamaCare was started...then that problem would be solved and costs would go down.

Nope.

The scam intensified. Now there is endless govt. money involved...and the insurance companies now have us ALL as customers by LAW.

Barry...the "complex" problem that you can't understand is called: MONEY.

As long as Big Pharma, Big Hospital Corporations, and Big Insurance buy and sell U.S. Senators with billions in lobby money...."healthcare" will continue to be wildly expensive.

If not for Govt. interference...people would simply buy their prescription drugs from other countries and pay the REAL price instead of paying 5 times more than it costs.
If not for Govt. interference people wouldn't need to do "medical tourism" to have procedures done at 1/4th the cost of the same exact thing in the U.S.

Don't believe me?
If you are unfortunate enough to be hospitalized in the near future (and hopefully that won't happen)....just try asking them for an itemized bill.
Good luck with getting it.
And if you are persistent enough to finally get one, you are going to be outraged at what they charged you. It's a total ripoff.

What all of this govt. interference is doing is taking away your rights and power as a CONSUMER.
The hospitals and big pharma have no reason to lower prices on anything. The money just flows like wine. They really do just charge whatever they want to.

It's not "complex" to me at all. I had the entire thing laid out for me by the Vice President of a corporation that owns a chain of hospitals in the Carolina's back in 2002.
He opened my eyes to how things were done.

And that was BEFORE ObamaCare and the explosion in insurance costs. :(

Why does Obamacare cost so much and why are so many Americans against it?

It gives life-saving treatment to people who would otherwise die and Americans are cool about that.

Killing Obamacare is an opportunity for the Healthcare industry to make more money.

Until Medicaid is expanded to people who can pay for a Government run Insurance scheme for treatment in Government owned Hospitals. Expect to pay the costs of a privatised health industry.

Robbie I know I was charged by medical providers about $110K in the past 6+ years

The insurers had to take me with a preexisting condition under the ACA.
Since 2010;
The insurers paid about $60K
I paid about $30K in insurance premiums -- for 1 person

I expect the same high deductible ($6.9K) insurance I am buying now to increase because of my age for reason of the change of the age differential of 1:3 to 1:5 to about $9K- $10K /yr-- that is if I will be able to buy insurance outside of some state high-risk pool.

Based on what I was paying for one year in a federally funded state high-risk pool when the ACA was enacted
and on the amount charged when the feds took it over for 6 months before the federal marketplace took it over
-- the state high-risk pool cost 30% more than the Medicare? rate I paid for those 6 months.

So the $14K annual premium being bantered about is not that unrealistic. Fortunately, I will be able to use the Medicare insurance that I have paid for for 40 years now in 3 years.

Apart from all of that: your state taxes will have to increase to pay the $800 billion Medicaid funding cuts to the states from the feds that this proposed AHCA calls for -- or people will be dying all over or hospitals will go broke or have to raise prices to care for them -- who do you think will pay in the end -- the tooth fairy?

Your state taxes will have to double or services decline. Some state funded services go to items that are on your property tax bill -- so expect millage increase proposals all the time. If they pass complain all you want -- you have to pay.

I really don't give two shits what hospitals charge line by line I care about the ridiculous overall situation.

This Republican House Bill passed by a partisan vote is DOA on its arrival in the US Senate. The Senate is going to rewrite it and the final result -- if any -- won't hit Trump's desk to sign into law until late this year.

I'll take a wait and see approach -- with any luck I will get offered an early Medicare buy-in until I am 65. If you are under 55 you are fucked with this current healthcare system -- every year you will be spending more until your employer won't pay any of the bill or you cannot afford to pay this extortion any longer :2 cents:

You need $100K cash or more to self insure against the current costs of the healthcare delivery system if you get seriously sick. Most people don't have that kind of cash laying around.

Don't worry about money; just get cheap medical treatment in Mexico....

If you can climb the wall.

:1orglaugh

Maybe, you can get a fast boat to Cuba ...
If you can get past the US Coast Guard...

Robbie is right, whenever government gets involved prices sky rocket... another good example is higher education...

what makes any of you think that government can make healthcare "affordable", when they are unable to make higher education "affordable"? what excuse do you guys have as to why higher education is expensive? there is no one even to "negotiate" with, government is the one providing the service, so how could it possibly be expensive?

the answer is simple, government involvement is what is causing the problem in the first place... the unlimited government subsidized loans to students is causing prices to rise, as everyone wants a bigger cut of that free unlimited $$...

then more government involvement is pitched as the solution... :error

Like the US postal service. Thank god we have FEDEX charging 1500% more to keep those motherfuckers in line. :1orglaugh

All the politicians are bought and paid for by the companies they are suppose to protect us from.

Hence the government won't negotiate better prices and terms for the people

USPS works reasonably well because it's operated kinda like a business, it receives no tax $$$... so there is no easy way to milk the tax payer like it is with education or healthcare...

they are cheaper in some cases than fedex and other providers for numerous reasons: they have monopoly on the use of mailboxes, they pay no taxes, they provide less reliable service, etc

so comparing USPS to fedex is like comparing apples to oranges...

Agreed 100%

Hospitals overcharge insurance companies for everything and they pay a slight percentage of what is billed. If you are uninsured they charge you the same inflated cost that you cannot negotiate.

Going to the hospital is worse than buying a car, you never know how bad they are going to screw you til you get the bill

So you're saying because they are allowed to leave stuff in your mailbox compared to your porch that somehow allows them to operate cheaper?

You left out the fact that they also don't have stockholders demanding profits nor do they have CEO's and other execs making multi-million dollar a year salaries.