Why? Going to immediately think I'm scum without doing any background checks? like a good business person should?

Ahhh, "Sig donated on behalf of GTS". Makes sense now.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go have a more productive chat with the wall behind me.

A question:


Lets say an installer changes affiliate codes, and credits whoever consigned the install software. This of course, is detrimental to affiliates, having a smaller impact on cash programs other than those affiliates not promoting them anymore.

Let's take it one step further:

Let's say I have my own cash program. What is preventing me from having an installer change an entire signup link to my cash program's signup page?

For instance:

If my cash program is www.agentcash.com"

What is preventing me from having the installer change
http://signups.nastydollars.com/?revcode=ffmovies

to:
http://signups.agentcash.com/?revcode=agent

... thereby robbing nastydollars of a signup?

I understand that, but those installs are not what we are referring to here, and everyone knows that. These are brought up to confuse the issue and dance around the subject.

If the product is free and there is a commission for the install, there is a reason for it - not necessarily bad mind you, but... in most cases it is.

Many have called the new google toolbar spyware. It doesn't bombarb you with popups, it doesn't steal commissions, but it knows an awful lot about you... is it spyware? A lot would argue that point and there are many on each side of the fence.

Missie

Amen brotha. :1orglaugh

Just answer the questions, you did understand them, didn't you?

Missie

Interesting comment from another adware guy

"they bitch about sponsors doing installs and cross sells, but if the sponsors stopped and then had to lower payout $5 , they would cry about that"

DH

Actually I believe it is CWS that does something like this. It doesn't change the links or alter the cookie, but when the targeted URL is typed in or clicked, the program automatically redirects the surfer to a site of his choice.

So if you clicked on nastydollars.com/yourid the program would recognize nastydollars.com as the targeted URL and would automatically redirect the surfer to agentcash.com and the surfer would never even see the nastydollars site.

As Kellie explained, these spyware programs don't change/alter/modify links or cookies. They help affiliates do that via forced clicks or redirecting surfers to another site.

Missie

Sue me on what grounds? For providing traffic to completely legal businesses? LOL!

DH

P.S. I'm husky not fat :1orglaugh

I love this because people sell porn that means automatically they have no souls, what a bullshit excuse.Most surfers dont have a clue whats happening and its taken advantage of thats sad but thats why DH is rich and Im not.I like to look at myself in the mirror lol.

So you can't imagine that something can be installed and not alter ref codes. I see. And I have reality issues? :1orglaugh

That's the thing that most people don't understand. The sponsor wouldn't lose a single sale, if anything they'd make a lot more money because their free hits/ppc ads would no longer be commissionable. Affiliates would be able to claim the sales that rightfully theirs and sponsors would see more affiliates being active with sales every month that would have previously gone to a spyware affiliate.

Nobody would lose except the spyware program. Is that so bad?

Missie

You and Mark are taking care of imaging it didn't. She's asking you to imagine it did.

There's loads of stuff out there that is legal but still shady, deceptive or just plain wrong. We can all agree to that, right? I'm not saying the installers that buy your traffic are doing such a thing. I'm just saying that such a thing does exist.

Stuart, I'm honestly curious to know how you'd feel if you found out that one of the legals installs that P2PAds helps spread was swapping out ref codes, forcibly changing home pages and performing other legal but malicious activities. And how would you feel if such activities were responsible for you losing sales?

I'm asking this not as an accusation, because no one has posted any proof that any of the installs that P2PAds distributes are malicious. I'm asking this as a fellow webmaster, one who respects your opinion and one who respects Mark, GTS and P2PAds.

DH..that sounds vaguely familiar :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

DH will own you Will. :2 cents:

I said this before - but how are you sure about the installs? do you test them in every timezone, country, etc?

I've heard of situations where installs are good when you test them out for your location - but actually they block your ip range and install bad shit where your not looking

you're a funny guy DH, what's the point of posting these lame ass comments? :1orglaugh

DH / P2PADS:

I would really like to ask you to answer this question: Do you, as far as you know, facilitate the installation of software such as Zango that operates in the manner above?

We actually do a heck of a lot of work before working with a company that we know wants to install something. It's not hard to bring up a windows server in one part of our vast network, install some software, watch it closely, test it, follow the CEPA list and determine if it's spyware.

DH...even though you know you are right this is a no win agument with the morons who populate this forum.....this has gone on many times before with disasterous results.....just ask Epiccash.....even though many people still promote webmaster direct...they became the poster child for the installs and it turned into a circus.....

Fraud? You're selling traffic to your GTS customers and then turning around and selling the affiliate codes on their galleries to someone else.

From another adware supporter

"this gfy thread is serious BS. This missie retard doesn't know the difference between adware and spyware."

DH

LOL! I think you should sue the adware companies not me Rhizhome and not all adware companies do this sort of thing.

We only supply traffic to companies that are operating legally.

DH

Everyone calls them both spyware these days and everyone pretty much knows wtf each do. Link 1, just 1 of these installs you are so confident that are legal. Or have your coven of idiots that can't even talk shit for themselves post their stuff here.

Rob says:
I just double checked....
Rob says:
We're not doing any installs of any type right now
Rob says:
Just so you know - LOL

DH

Say the company is operating legally but doing something malicious, like swapping ref codes. Would you accept them as a client knowing that the product you were pushing did this? And if you didn't know that the product did this, but later found out that it did (with hard evidence), would you continue to accept their business?

the only problem I have ever had with P2Pads was questionable keywords used to drive traffic

I just made a great analogy of this thread

"It's like a hippy tree hugger shooting a gas attendent because he fuels up a hummer!"

LOL!

DH

Did you buy a package TDF?

We have a very refined blacklist. We don't mess around with that.

Another great comment from ICQ

"what i think is nuts is this will76 guy who's bills himself as an affiliate extraordinaire is just finding out about this now? welcome to 3 years ago..."

DH

It would seriously suck, and wouldn't be allowed. That's why the question was asked.... did Missie or Will76 actually come into contact with a file through the p2pads network that does this. Because if so, we'd love to know about it so that the files can be removed at the source and the sale to the company terminated.

It's not acceptable. It's a horrible business practice.... and won't be tolerated.

But no such file has been presented as of yet. So therefore we have nothing to go on except "imagine if."

I would personally be in the office kicking Mark's ass if he allowed such practices to go on because anyone who knows me, knows that I will have absolutely nothing to do with it. I will not condone that kind of activity no matter what. Infact, my resignation wouldn't be far behind the ass kicking (actually, he's been to the gym more than me, I'd likely get my own ass kicked).

But the point is, I take this crap seriously because the one thing I've become best known for by many in this industry is my integrity. The fact that people would blindly lump all software into the same pile is pretty naive. And I really don't appreciated being labeled anything based on assumption.

The only thing I've been asking in this thread is that people open their list of possibilities to the notion that perhaps not every site has a popup, that not ever file has a spyware embedded, that not everything in a p2p network is harmful.. and that not everyone who says "hit me up" is instantly trying to cheat everyone he does business with. Think about it. Selling traffic to a cheater or to a reputable business... it's sold at the same price. Except there's risk with one and not the other. Why take that risk?

I wouldn't even know you support installs if DH wouldn't have publicly announced it.

Everything I have posted has also been said by DH, except for a few questions I have asked him which he refused to answer. So whats the problem, he supports installs, and as long as its legal we can all fuck ourselves. Those are his words not mine, and there is more then just Me and Missie here who have a problem with this.

Thanks for answering this Will.

Have you been to AdTech? Do you know that there are reputable companies who would like traffic directed to a program that (after disclosure and acceptance) would like to install software?

There is a difference between an installer and spyware.

i am going to have to start sending some traffic to you guys. I wish all affiliate companies had that same atitude. Hell, we can't even get the companies that post here ALL the time to even respond if they support it or not.

But they are here spaming their program and starting contest threads... I am starting to think more and more that these affiliate companies sit back and laugh at all of their affiliates. Here we are asking for answers and they are silent, but hey i see their contest threads all of the place. :upsidedow

You know whats funny about this whole thing is? The p2p bearshare for one has zango bundled that is hijacking the afilliates id is the same client people are useing to download the videos that he is selling the p2p traffic to the afilliates. Now if anything he should be pissed about this.

So just wtf is going on here? Also i have not seen one sponsor mentioned in all of this comment at all. Look at this shit below. For less then 3 cents your hard earned sale is goign to some low life and you are geting fucked


http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/7056/untitledkj7.jpg

And most of them are broke dick, short sighted, clueless idiots. (With bad grammar)

Where is that screenshot from?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spyware
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Installer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adware

It's funny that if they're all the same thing, that they'd all have different wikipedia entries.... which, for some strange reason, have very little to do with each other.

It's been said a few times in this thread that people just call them the same thing now. Well, no. You people call them the same thing now.

And there in lies the problem.


Yes, there is some adware out there that has spyware. Yes, there are some installers out there that have spyware. Do they ALL have spyware?!?!?!

Will? Missie? Do they ALL have spyware? Do they ALL rewrite ref codes?!?! A simple yes or no answer will suffice.

You see, now this is how grown adults converse. I asked you an honest, straightforward question, and you replied with an honest, straightforward answer. No accusations, no namecalling, no wisecracks on either side.

I appreciate your answer, Stuart, and I respect your stance. My respect for you stems from, amongst other things, your integrity in this business (like you said).

I agree with you that not all installs are malicious. Sure, some may be annoying as shit, but if they're opt-in, then the surfer is the only one to blame. And until some can provide real proof otherwise, then I have no reason to believe P2PAds spreads malicious installs.

Come on now jim, spyware might explain why you have never successfully sent an affiliate sale to any company ever. :winkwink: