So believeing in something fake is better than not accepting reality? Gotcha.

Earth has become illegall tube site

I don't have proof Santa doesn't exist. You can't really prove a negative. I am 100% certain that Santa is not real and you are 100% certain too, but with God if you don't have proof then you somehow are required to leave open the possibility. Um..no.

100% agreed with you.

thanks CD :thumbsup

great post give me a sec to break it down and make sure i am following what you are saying before i break it down.

there is no start to infinity, it just always existed, i know that sounds insane but that is just it. it did not have to start at anytime it always existed.

look into string theory a little bit, basically part of the theory is that there is multiple dimensions where there could indeed be another one of "you", so does that mean that the other "you" in the other dimension is the past or future of your current self?

so what do you believe the "god" that you dont believe exists is? :upsidedow

squeegee that third eye, wipe away some of the bitterness that the priest classes have burned into you and you might get a taste ......

Amen to that, I'm a living God...

ANYONE, theist or atheist, who is 100% sure
that their belief is the only valid belief is a fanatic.

I'm 100% sure if I jump off a 100 foot cliff I will fall. So I guess I'm a gravity fanatic.

Life is too short?

It's the longest fucking thing you'll ever do, shit for brains.

Fuck God.

Firstly, trusting in science or believing in a god are not mutually exclusive and the fact that you are proceeding from the assumption of this false dichotomy sets apocryphal limitations on the construction of your argument.

Secondly, just because a system, i.e. the universe seems too complex for you to comprehend does not mean that is can not be understood and therefore must be relegated to the realm of the supernatural. Science has been slowly and steadily chipping away at this supposedly "irreducibly complex" area of knowledge for a few thousand years now and is ever accelerating.

In fact, there are several plausible theories as to how the universe arose, but to full appreciate them you need to have a decent understanding of several complicated concepts including string theory, particle physics, cosmology and possess a high degree of mathematical skill.

Remember that the mammalian brain (ours) has evolved to both recognize patterns (even when there are none) and quickly categorize our environment. Spirituality and religiosity also evolved to help us fill in the gaps of our knowledge so that the world did not seem so disorderly.... and this "god of the gaps" has existed to this day. We used to think that the sun was carried across the sky by a god in a chariot. Why? Because we needed an explanation and had none based in reality.

Now we have similar, if more complicated, gaps; such as "Where did the universe come from?" But just because we do not have answers to these questions now doesn't mean we will never have them.

But enough about the universe, what about this god that you speak of?

God is defined in many different ways by different people.

Is your god an conscious entity?

Is it natural (created as part of the universe) or supernatural?

If it is supernatural, where did it come from? Where does it reside? What created your god?

You can never really have an "ultimate mover" as something will have had created that as well.

We could really get into this with pages and pages and books and books of writing, but I don't have the time to write it and you probably don't want to read it.

As for your existentialist attitude, I agree, in the grand scheme of the universe we are completely meaningless. If this planet was completely destroyed the universe would carry on just fine without us. However, I'm a pragmatic existentialist so while I believe that our lives are ultimately meaningless to the universe we ARE here, and thus should do the best we can to ensure that the qualities and characteristics that transcend the individual continue to exist. It's our responsibility as humans to further humanity as much as possible during our incredibly short lives.

But only challenging the "god of the gaps" and other "easy and wrong" explanations for the universe around us can we hope to ever understand it.

Ok, I need to get back to work.... :2 cents: Oh and I probably should have proofread this, but whatever =p

Still waiting for your rebuttal, MetaMan. You were awfully quick to reply before... :2 cents:

This much I agree with.

In the grand scheme of things, we ain't shit. Buuuuut... I sure do like money and pussy. :thumbsup

i dont believe in anything, I dont label people, i dont care

i am alive now and that is what matters, when I die I will learn the rest, if there is any

Ayahuasca is amazing, I have been in 3 Ayahuasca circles and come out completely changed every time

DMT was much better as far as touching the other side, and Ayahuasca only works in the spirtitual sense if you ingest it with that spiritual longing that most DON'T have, even when they think they do

You can really drag it out if you're unhappy ( for whatever reason ) ...

Gravity is a theory, not a fact.

If someone tells me there's a pink elephant behind a cloud then it's not up to me to prove them wrong, it's up to them to prove it's true.

Also which God are you guys talking about anyway?

Who said you had to stand for something. Ever read lord of the flies ? See the movie ? ... doesn't end well. I guess If I had to stand for something it would be human rights :2 cents:

Wrong. Gravity is neither a theory nor a fact. It is a property of matter, and it's existence is considered factual due to the consistent ability to observe and replicate it's effects.

great, another know-it-all with the tired and lame "god is everything" crap

grow the fuck up

The discussion isn't as simple and as that.

You see, the issue with Atheists and denouncing a higher power, is that Atheists get their definitions of God from the Christians. This is where the 'magic man in the sky' stuff comes into the discussion. So forget the Christian idea of God and just look at the very basic definition of what 'God' is.

Let's not use the word 'God', and let's pretend that 'God' probably isn't so supernatural after all. Then interchange the idea 'God' with a sort of unified energy that holds the Universe together and makes things happen and also destroys those things. What if gravity, or electricity is the almighty energy that creates and destroys and holds the Universe together?

I don't know, you don't know - which is essentially definition of Agnosticism.

actually, if you really wanna get deep, gravity is just a word

Pro or Con everyone in this tread proves Marx right :)

and time is an illusion :evil-laug

I tend to subscribe to Plato's view of religion as part of 'The Noble Lie'.


"Plato argues that the Lie is necessary in order to keep a stable social structure.

In Plato’s mind, The Noble Lie is a religious lie that’s fed to the masses to keep them under control and happy with their situation in life. Plato did not believe most people were smart enough to look after their own and society’s best interest. The few smart people of the world needed to lead the rest of the flock, Plato said. And The Noble Lie had to continue.

The Noble Lie is knowingly told by an 'elite' to maintain social harmony, particularly the social position of that elite."

Which one of the many theories are you going by? Doesn't matter to this thread though, I was just responding to what someone else said.

I believe what Metaman is trying to say is that God did not create the garden, God is the garden.

I was referring to Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation. Though dated, and superseded by gravitation's explanation by Einstein's General Theory of Relativity, it fit for my point. Sorry if I came off as rude. :)

Welcome to Gods Garden ...

http://www.fartfly.com/the_green-man.jpg

All you can add to the conversation is a recycled theist slogan? :1orglaugh

He disappeared.

heyo ill be back i appreciate your post i been partying a little bit, bookmark this thread and i will gaurantee you i will respond.

Hehe, enjoy yourself. I wouldn't want a reply wrought from less than %100 focus. :)

hahahahaha this guy is such a nut. he thinks ghosts, fairies, elves, etc are all real and the only reason we cant see or interact with them is because they are on a different frequency. to tune into that frequency he says, do as the shamans do and take hallucinogenics.

now lets see whats more probable. you took hallucinogenics and are able to see outside your dimensions of time and space and are communicating with something out of this world.. or you are just high as a kite and your brain is not funtioning properly.

this idiot needs a basic course in biology and one more in physics.

i love how his degree is in sociology too.

You are wrong, atheists don't get their definition of god from Christians. There were atheists long before Christianity was around. Also I question the point of redefining God out of significance. What if god is electricity? Electromagnetism is just one out of many forces. Would that make you a pantheist with an electromagnetism god, a gravity god, a weak nuclear god and a strong nuclear god? Pointing to a force and calling it god is exactly the same thought process as pre-historic man pointing to lightning and calling it god. At least the pre-historic man would have worshipped the thunder god and probably felt some sense of order and ease in his world that when he performed certain rituals the thunder god would be satisfied and His favour would appear to shine on him afterwards boosting his immune system with the feeling of control over his environment and helping to ensure he lives long enough to produce offspring.
What is the point of having an electricity god today? So that you may thank Him every time you turn your plasma TV on and pray to his greatness for bringing you Geraldo? Of course not, so it's entirely superfluous, an intellectually lazy game. Like a university student saying "What if.. god was like... heheheh... a bong? hehehehheh"
You've got to ask what the benefit in humans assigning a status to a part of physics is.. (Or a chemical process, or a complex system) How and why would it advance or augment our understanding of the universe to call electromagnetism or gravity god rather than plain old "vanilla" electricity or gravity. Only then can you decide if there is an "issue" with atheism as it relates to this particular god of the gaps. It's called atheism, not agravitism or aelectromagnetism. If what you call god doesn't have any actual godlike attributes then is it anything other than empty thought games?

Nope not rude, a debate is about intelligent responses and disagreements :thumbsup

the wonderful part of it ALL is that NONE of us know anything AT ALL as a fact, we just assume it is all accurate

you miss the point you stupid bastard, i am OPEN, i do not dare say one is right or the other, i do believe athiests are wrong. fuck i know all kinds of catholics, dated a muslim, would love to tap a nigga.

dont assume shit i believe or i will knock u the fuck out.

i am going to expierience something new, i am all about alternative thinking. not trying to say it is 100% real. open your mind.

i do not believe is ghosts fairies or elves. man open up your brain. i dare you to sit down with me you live close to me and i am around your age. ill help you nerds get chicks and we can have a real convo and you will change your opinion about me asap.

Atheism is not about alternative beliefs, but not believe in God. Just because you can't explain the pre-universe scientifically, does not make you an idiot. It makes you human :)

I believe there's SOMETHING... but it certainly isn't an invisible bearded man in the sky in white robes that writes down my "sins" in some big ass book that he then punishes me for after I die.

An aetheist's epitaph:

All dressed up
Nowhere to go

:321GFY

fakin imho the entire point in being human is to ask questions, find the purpose and ultimately to find the truth to those questions.

if we stop asking questions and stop trying to explain them we may as well degress and become apes.

on the other side of that coin....questions during your life don't have to centrally focus on god and spirituality

in fact, some more rational people might think that focusing so much time and energy on something we won't ever know is a wasted life/effort

message deleted.

The way it was explained to me is that infinity never started, nor will it will ever end and the reason that most of us can't get our heads around that concept is simply because everything in our plane of existence has a beginning and an end.

That's everything including even (according to the big bang theory) the universe itself. Thing is, before this universe there was another one and before that universe there was yet another and before that one....well, you get the idea.

Well, in that context, science is the one seeking answers and evolvement. Religion however, is telling you the "truth" - it already defines your purpose and destination, and it forbids you to question.

:thumbsup Hahaha my favorite post yet!

Ok gotta post and scroll back up to read the rest.

I'm not trying to call anything a god of *. You are missing the point with that. What the goal is, is to possibly answer questions of what natural forces can do the work of God. By a modern basic definition, God is the creator of everything in the Universe. So the only godlike attribute we should discuss, is creation.

The creation of the Universe has quite a few different theories and it is all but impossible to know which one, if any, is correct. So, we have to look for patterns in observable creation and try to build from that.

Gravity creates stars in nebula clouds and planets from debris rings in the cosmos. Electricity sparks simple life in primordial soup experiments. Sure, gravity and electromagnetism are just natural forces, but they are creative forces that produce can life.

Then again, the whole Universe could be inside of some alien's SimUniverse game, and no we aren't going to call him the 'God of Nintendo'.

We can never be too sure about the biiiig picture. But we can try to whittle away at the unknown with repeating patterns in enviroments that are known.

"Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." - Andre Gide