now I thought this was fucking funny lol . I dont think she means union more of a trade association like a better business bureau.

Good idea, but I don't think it would work. Unless that "union" could put up some sort of guarantee to the client, should the contract designer go rogue or whatever. And, maybe serve as escrow.

However, someone would be in charge. And we all know how it went with dmoz, don't we? Same thing would happen here ;)

True. Conflict of interest issues might crop up. Also, there's anticompetitive issues.

Standardization is important. Unfortunately, there has to be a workable solution to arriving at and enforcing these standards.

:2 cents:

exactly my point. The problem is who draws the line.

Besides, an union needs 3 "legs": localization, recognition and policies. Without this, it's just someone handing out gigs and getting an slice of the pie in the process. And each and every "leg" has to be present. If no one recognizes the union, there's no union by definition. If it doesn't have a very strict geographical localization, then the rules of this union are just an obstacle since any non-union worker will have all the freedom and competitive advantages. And the policies have to be made by an important part of the union members. Even tho you could do it via internet, it's not the best way, but even if you do it, how do you enforce policies? what kind of pressure techniques are you going to use to make those policies work for members and to make clients respect the union policies? are you going to use strikes? will you stop working?

As you can see, it's impossible, esp if you keep in mind 99.99% of unions are comprised of hired workers, not independent workers.

anyway, just to keep in theme...

http://www.aworldtowin.net/images/im...teContinue.JPG

y viva la revolution! :D

You morons she doesn't want a "union" shaddap.

I think everyone is taking Union the wrong way...

1. the act of uniting two or more things.
2. the state of being united.
3. something formed by uniting two or more things; combination.
4. a number of persons, states, etc., joined or associated together for some common purpose

My fault for not being more specific. I meant more of a place for designers that are trustworthy to come together. I'm always having clients want a quick job done that I just don't have time to do. It would be great to send them to even a directory of sorts with a rating system like ebay (where you can only vote if you've bought something)where they can get taken care of without getting ripped off by someone. Hell, even a side for designers to warn other designers about clients that don't pay, etc.(a rating system designers can give to the clients)

Yeah. lets call is Survivor, and VOTE them off the island.

Create a Union, Raise prices and try and drive the little guy out. BRILLIANT.

That sound like good idea and maybe designers should be made agreement about the same price

I dunno why you guys even bother. Sure there are tons of clients out there but the problem is they never got the money to get a design done.

Can you believe I put up tours for as low as 250.00 dolalrs and I still had fuck heads wanting to talk the price down? Uhh yeah, I deferred about 5 people and the "Work" they wanted done. I am not going to work for 10 bucks a day.

So until people got actual money to order shit none of this matters.

This industry is a fucking broke joke to the bone its time people begin to admit it.

Again yeah tons of design out there but none of it matters if the shit is not worth the time.

sorry almighty mastermind, I just read what the thread says without reading minds.

As mentioned, if it's not an union it's either a resource site (there are hundreds, probably thousands out there) or what she's already doing, being the middle woman for other designers. So the answer would be it already exists. Happy now? :)

fair enough :)

it sounds like an association.

Speaking as an established, trustworthy and reputable designer, I must say that although a union may sound like a good idea, it's not. Here's why:

-A union means the designer has to report to someone other than the client
the main reason I work for myself and not for a big company (I used to be one of IBM's top designers), is because I don't want to have a boss. So most likely any designer out there wants to be free, and not have someone (other than the client) looking over their shoulder.
-A union means price caps and minimums.
it may not be at first, but in the long run (history has proven it time and again), a union will set caps and minimums on prices for products or services, therefore driving up the prices for the clients. Most of us want to charge however much we believe our work is worth, without having to consult it with anyone.
-A union means discrimination.
when there's a union in place, and a good designer decides not to be part of it, he/she will be discriminated against by the union members and by some elite clients.

if a client wants to know who's available and how much, and who's trustworthy or not, all they need to do is come to the boards and ask.

I'm far more than just a middle woman for other designers. I started off all by myself for years and decided I wanted to own a business rather than just being the business. I have a team of 10 designers/developers, myself included (many who have come from other big design firms on this board). I can see from your posts that my work isn't your cup of tea, which is completely fine, but I deserve more credit than that.

I didn't mean it in a disrispectful way, there's nothing wrong with that and I admit you're quite good on the marketing and service selling side, which is soemthing many designers and coders need. Since I know some of the designers and coders you work with I assume your team is not in-house and you don't have them under payroll, right? If so, you're a middle person instead of an employer. And again, nothing wrong with that, can't see why you see it as a bad thing :)


and btw, although you say your work "is not my cup of tea", I even said in a previous post in this thread your work is very suitable for some kind of clients :)

The only way to get shit done in adult is to just do it.. Don't fucking post on a forum about it asking opinions.. Opinions are like assholes everyone has one and they ALL stink.

Zuzanna whatever your idea is whatever you have decided is needed in this industry just go ahead and start creating it.