yeah, the time flew by.

we are in the final stretch now and I swear it was like yesterday we found out she was preggos.

cherry is sleeping but when she gets up ill point her to your email here... shes been sleeping in lately. She went from a very small petitie thing to big momma lol

Do yourself a favor and stay away from the websites of those theorizing that vaccines cause autism. I drove myself crazy for a while too.

Speak to a doctor or two with your concerns.

Sucks for this girl though. One of mine had a bad reaction to a vaccine last week. It was pretty scary. I can't imagine what her parents are going through.

thanks, although I havent fallen prey to the autism anxiety yet. lots of babies around here(both my brothers have babies) so lots of mommies and grandmas for advice. and of course doctors...

however this is what im talking about! everyone you know either knows someone who reacted or knows someone who did etc... it adds up, and then deaths? And we are expected to toss it up as a "roll of the dice?" This little girl would be playing with her schoolmates today had she not been injected. That scares anyone with a brain, let alone kids or not.

hope all is good with the vaccine man, thats terrible

Yes. Lots of things cause cancers, that's very true however 95% of cervical cancer is caused by a specific thing; HPV. That is what the vaccine protects you from contracting. It's very sad to read about the girl who died after having the vaccine; however so far, more than 1.4million doses have been given out in the UK alone, and there has been one death. That's pretty good odds in my book - versus the numbers of girls who will get sick; need on going treatments; chemo; hysterectomies etc or who could even die. I just googed it and in 2007 alone there were 941 deaths from cervical cancer in the UK. That's more scary. I'm not a parent and I appreciate it would be a tough decision to go ahead and make but surely it's entirely best to go ahead with the vaccine.

Doctors are usually all for drugs and vaccines. The researchers that invent them know the real risks involved and will not use it on themselves or their kids.

Even if you vaccinate against those 2 deadliest types of HPV, the other 100s of types of HPV will just step up to the plate and take its place. It is like a flu vaccine. Half the time, the vaccine is not even against the right strain of flu, but you'll never know.

Very good points made here :) :2 cents:

Two roads. One leads to an extremely small risk of death, the other leads to a risk of death that is several thousands of times larger. Which road would you pick for your daughter?

When driving, would you have your daughter wear a seatbelt despite the risk that you drive into water, it gets stuck and she drowns? Or would you go with the much larger risk of death in a typical car crash while not wearing a seatbelt?

When choosing a babysitter, would you go with someone who has great references and a great reputation, or with a convicted child molester? After all, there is a small chance that the child molester has changed his ways, while the fully qualified babysitter with great references might turn out to actually be a child molester who just hasn't been caught yet.

If your daughter was dying from cervical cancer some decades from now and asked why you didn't get her the vaccination despite the risk being much, much smaller than the risk of cervical cancer it would have reduced, what would you answer?

More people died from being hit by cars that year, why not google that statistic. I'm not saying it's not serious, but contracting HPV is a pretty simple equation... Unprotected sex with someone who has HPV = HPV infection. Not knowing what to look for with your sexual partner = risk of HPV infection. Instead of simply giving a person leave to stupidity, I prefer a good education to the risks potentially involved with vaccination. I plan to talk to my children on an in-depth level about these kinds of concerns, because like it or not, it's something I SHOULD do as a parent. Most people opting for the vaccination would never have the guts to bring something like that up with their child. I wonder how many girls who've gotten the vaccine even understand the implications of what it's for? Likely not. If they're old enough to be vaccinated for something, does it not mean they are old enough at least for a rudimentary education about it? Not to mention, with the gardisil vaccine being so new, doctors have NO IDEA of the potential long-term effects of such a vaccination. I don't trust them at the best of times, why would I trust them to use my kids as a case study 10 years down the road?

And what if your child is suffering from something just as bad if not worse because the vaccine that was given out like candy turned out 10 years later to be the cause of something even worse? Guilt is NOT a good reason to get children vaccinated. Wonder how the people who were cripped or had family die from Guillam Barre after their Swine Flu Vaccination felt. Did they feel guilty? It's never a black and white thing, but NOT having children vaccinated is a decision that ultimately falls to the parents, just as having vaccinations is. In either case, one must weigh the pros and cons and decide what they feel is best for their child.

Personally, I've always found that our bodies are miraculous things, and they will most oftentimes fix themselves.. The more crap we pour down our throats or have poked into our veins doesn't really win us any ground, because every time we "defeat" one illness, five more crop on it it's place. Superbugs are a good example of this... they were created by the very thing that was meant to help... .antibiotics... an OVERUSE of antibiotics, generally because parents who's kid have a little sniffle can't let mother nature run it's course, but demand their doctors fix things, and the doctors comply even when they know it's not neccessary so they feel they've done their jobs. In our "instant gratification" society, people place too much importance on the quick fix instead of allowing things to take their own course. Who suffers for this? EVERYONE, because now those superbugs are out there, and both the morons who don't know the difference between a bacteria and a virus (antibiotics are USELESS against viruses, but that's what most cold and flus are), and the people who chose differently are now exposed to these things. When my kids get sick, unless they are REALLY sick and can't get better on their own, I care for them through it, but I let them fight it off. Why? Because it's GOOD for their immune systems, it helps prevent MORE illnesses in the future, and my kids rarely if ever get sick for more than a day anymore, while half of their classmates are home every other week because they have no immune system and are flooded with antibiotics. It's a ridiculous, vicious circle I choose not to feed into.

That is such fucking bullshit.

Here's a little list of just a few of the things you'd have seen regularly in your surroundings before we started "messing with mother nature". In many third world countries where they're too poor to mess with mother nature, you still see them with varying regularity.

Click the links for pictures to show just what we're missing out on.

smallpox
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Bangladesh.jpg

polio
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...lio.large1.jpg

noma
http://salt.claretianpubs.org/shake/...0411a-noma.jpg

congenital syphilis
http://www.cubaheadlines.com/files/c...0congenita.jpg

rickets
http://bryanking.net/wp-content/uplo...05/rickets.jpg

congenital rubella syndrome
http://www.pathguy.com/sol/53732.jpg

the bubonic plague
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ue_-buboes.jpg

You've got it. ;) Swine flue, is another stupid one for a vaccine. HPV honestly whats the percentage of woman that get cervical cancer? I know a lot of women and I can't recall one of them getting cervical cancer and dying. Not saying it doesn't happen a lot, but its not worth the risk of one of my kids dying to get some shot that really hasn't been proven to stop it anyways.

Bravo. Those diseases are just a TINY MINISCULE minority of the diseases that are out there today. Again as I say, for every disease we "cure" how many more come out of the woodwork that we can do nothing but stand by and watch? AIDS is a good example of this, doesn't matter how much money you have, AIDS is a good equalizer. As rain forests are razes, the far reaches of the world are explored, more and more vicious illnesses are introduced (or re-introduced) into the gene pool. I'm not saying medical research and the progress we've made is not a good thing, but getting rid of those illnesses did not suddenly cure humanity, and a constant effort is needed (and is only really happening in the countries that can afford it) to stave them off. We haven't "won" the war, simply came out on top of a few skirmishes, and even then, the "victory" is fleeting. If the whole system breaks down tomorrow and vaccinations stop worldwide, there is NOTHING stopping those illnesses from becoming a part of the equation once again.

33 years ago (in medicine, that's huge), a vaccine that was most likely contaminated because it was prepared in way that we don't use anymore, 25 people died. Plus, even for that specific vaccine, the risk it had of causing GBS was still only half that of the risk a normal flu has of causing GBS.

With contemporary flu vaccines, the vaccine has about 2% of the risk of causing GBS as the flu itself does - not to mention the fact that the flu also has a rather large chance of causing plan, simple death.

Meanwhile, in the past 100 years, vaccines have saved the lives of hundreds of millions of people.

While overuse of antibiotics is most certainly a bad thing, they definitely have helped us win ground against "mother nature". See the examples I mentioned in my post above.

Nope, wrong. Go read up. Condoms don't = protected, it decreases risk but doesn't remove risk.

Don't get shots. Period. I don't care what everyone says there is no way I will get a flu shot.

Those diseases are also only just a small selection of the ones we can now treat successfully.

On the other hand, they used to be absolutely rampant. Smallpox alone killed more people in the 20th century than Hitler, Stalin and Mao combined did - several times more, at that.

The fact that life expectancy keeps creeping up in western countries is not a coincidence. Most people in rich countries these days have a good chance of dying from old age, accidents or their own stupidity. That used to be quite a bit different.

ah ha! there you are LOL

did you see my post to you on page 1? LOL

guns and ammo at the ready :1orglaugh

What condoms don't protect, good education does :)

Ha, if you say so. :1orglaugh

Another damn good reason why a lot of people should not have access to the internet.
Vaccines are way safer than ever before, very few are getting rich off of them, especially since so many are just given away. The risks from reacting from a vaccination are so minimal that they barely show up as a blip on the public radar, and yes the CDC monitors this shit like crazy.
The HPV stuff is even more crazy, sure it is new, sure people lived for not just thousands but hundreds of thousands of years. Then again we could check average life expectancy of people (not using the bible of course) but of course that would not really matter right? Cervical cancer is pretty damn high on the list and HPV is the number 1 cause of it. Few other things cause it too and yes they are looking into those too.

Kind of funny people are always bitching that nobody tries to cure anything and those types of arguments. Yet often the very damn same people are often against such treatments. Then people act surprised when the US recently started to see polio cases again.

Personally do not care what you do or do not put in your bodies. Just do not go around saying shit like it is child abuse or other stupid shit. I also think if you do not give your kids vaccines I am on the side of not allowing them into public schools. Not giving your dogs vaccines should also prevent them from going to public dog parks.

that some people refuse vaccines is darwinism at its finest.

Yes just like vets recommend you get your dogs vaccinated every year... even though it kills the dogs much earlier. lol Science and medicine have no ulterior motives nah... And they never make mistakes. LOL

Lets see my daughter had to get her required shots 2 times because the vaccine cabinets were not maintaining tempeture correctly. Awesome. That was great to have to hold my crying daughter twice while getting shots I really wasn't too excited for her to get in the first place.

I am 8 months pregnant and they want me to get a regular flu vaccine and the swine flu vaccine as soon as it comes in.

You think some people should be restricted from accessing the internet? That's scarier than the vaccine conspiracies. :error :1orglaugh

I'm not anti-vaccine per se, but this HPV vaccine seems waaaaay too political. I don't believe many people on either side of it have the girls' best interests at heart. It's either money or morals, but not girls' lives.

It is sarcasm, but fuck it I am not really that interested in replying to you after you have accused me of troll and even said you were putting me on ignore.

Some people get overly excited and buy into assorted nut jobs mumbo jumbo. Long ago this was not of much concern as the typical neighborhood crazy stayed to him/herself. Now they can network and have some have even become popular authorities. Would I really cut them off, no I do believe in such freedoms. Even if it does cause crazy to spread.

Cancer jab 'unlikely' death cause

A girl who died shortly after being given a cervical cancer vaccine had a "serious underlying medical condition", an NHS Trust has said.

That's the point of the vaccine. To save lives.
1 in 4 women are supposed to carry hpv so that's a large number of women who could potentially develop cancer, or precancer where they have cell changes and just have to spend years worrying if theirs might develop into worse at some point. That does have girls' best interests at heart. How does it not?

Odd article considering they dont name ANY condition, and the article most just repeats over and over: vaccine is safe, program should continue. over and over LOL

but nothing about her *condition*
:helpme

I'm not sure why haters take small things and make them bigger than the main problem. same people use the excuse for not wearing a setbelt because some guy died because he was wearing seat belt and he would have lived if he didn't. Well yeah that happens but I'll go with the odds that say you are more likely to live with a seat belt.

every few years you hear about some guy getting killed by lightning while INSIDE his house. So using the OPs logic when there's a thunderstorm I should go outside to avoid being killed that way.

Once again retardation. The risk of you kid dying form a HPV vaccine is MUCH MUCH lower than dying of cervical cancer. But go ahead you don't look like a math genius to me. what happens if one of you kids gets cervical cancer and you knew you could have prevented it with a shot. Are you going to look her in the eye and admit you murdered her?

According to the CDC in 2005( last year for data ) 3,924 died from cervical cancer. As far as I'm concerned as long as the number of deaths from the vaccine is under 3924 you are saving lives. Basic math even a retarded child knows.

Another tragedy of this girl dying:
The overwhelming odds were she would NEVER have cervical cancer anyway.

"According to the latest global estimates,
274,000 women die
of the disease annually"

That's a lot of women. But when you put it percentage wise...there are how many BILLION people in this world? And at least half of them are women. So the chances are that young girl was never going to get cervical cancer anyway.

To put it in perspective that is 274,000 women Now check this:
"The top killer for women is heart disease, which claims nearly 489,000 deaths each year. Heart disease kills more women every year than all types of cancers combined."

So that little girl would have been better off learning proper nutrition (which not only could help prevent heart disease but also cancer as well) and excercise to fend off heart disease.

It's a conundrum for sure.

I have two daughters by the way. Got them both the vaccination. Like most folks I'm scared by what doctors say and tend to blindly follow their advice. Thank God there were no problems.

It was statistically speaking...very probably an unnecessary vaccination. But human nature made me willing to go along with it "just in case"

Since you like to bring up statistics it was even more statistically unlikely she'd die from the shot. Once again YOU GO WITH THE ODDS. Do you hit on 20 in blackjack? Why not? You have a 1/13 chance of getting an ace.

well atleast she didn't die of cervical cancer

3924 deaths a year and Im supposed to risk injecting my kids with an unknown non long term tested vaccine that could cause more potential health issues that we don't know about years and years from now. Ok ya..


In 2003 there were 6,328,000 car accidents in the US. There were 2.9 million injuries and 42,643 people were killed in auto accidents.


Guess I REALLY shouldn't let them ever drive a car cause damn.. they are likely to die.


What flavor is the koolaid this week?

Those are global estimates. Now Robbie do you really think they are that good at guessing at how many died of what in all of the odd ball third world countries where people do not even see doctors let alone get autopsies.

All they can do is take a guess by using data from the places that keep track, even those numbers are often flawed as not everyone is fully diagnosed properly or gets a chance to die from it (yes had a friend with leukemia who well died by getting hit by a car). Then they take that data and attempt to multiply it properly.

Then when you speak of heart disease, it is called a silent killer in women for many reasons. Big reason is that women just do not get checked out or think about hereditary issues. It is not diet or exercise related, of course eating properly and exercise will probably/more than likely help though. (keep in mind there are those health nuts who do drop dead from a stroke or heart attack, but that shouldn't be a deterrent to good nutrition and exercise either). Anyways back on point. It is the number 1 killer of women but may I bring up that heart disease is not contagious like HPV is. So the more it gets spread around the higher the number can go.

I only brought up the statistics because the way the public is presented with this...it's like: "if you don't get your daughter this vaccination she WILL die from cervical cancer"

And that just isn't true. It's not even close to true.

But as I said...I drank the koolaid myself and had the vaccination given to my daughters a few months ago.

Everything went great. The odds were unquestionable in my favor.

But IF I had forced my two babies to take that shot (and of course they did NOT want to take any shot lol ) and then I had watched them die....Well, I would have become a statistic of another kind, because I would have put a shotgun in my mouth.

I can't even fathom what that girls parents are feeling.

EDIT: My "babies" are teenagers by the way, before any smartasses chip in about giving this particular vaccination to babies lol

She had a chest tumour that could have killed her at any time. Coroner says the vaccine looks to have had no factor in her death but they are looking into it further.

The lesson to be learned in this thread: quite a few people do not understand statistics and comparative risk.