Don't pretend like its not happening... There will always be money to make... in any fucking thing you do. But its a changing market and you all know it.

5-6 years ago a great idea was being bounced around that would have saved us. MICRO-PAYMENTS... (APP store concept).

But it never came to fruition.

One again, There is still money here... but the mindset of the generation is that anything on the web is FREE.

Do you agree on that statement? OR NOT?

for sure... the upcoming generations are not interested in spending any money for online content, none, nada... they are already computer savvy as teens and by the time they can even get a credit card they already know every way possible to get terabytes of porn for free... the good old days are long gone

Making money yes, but in a totally different way to how I was 3-4 years ago.

I've let over 120 domains go that were porn focused this year alone, and will let probably a similar number go next year. Totally changed tack.

You have to adapt or die as they say.

+
they didn't improve their skills, just repeated same old shit and You wonder why they fail?

what i believe is no matter if You are a big playa or a beer money making, this is a total change for Adult industry, this market re regulates itself like any other market,

while some of us quitting, the adapted ones will stay and eat the big peace of Pie :2 cents:

I seem to be doing just fine without resorting to anything shady at all. Been operating my site for over Ten years. My only costs are server fee's everything else was paid for many many years ago.

I've taken my affiliate program to invite only and that been the best thing I've done in a long time. Sales are steady as ever.

Course I need to actually get off my ass and rework the site. I've been talking about doing it for years but have so many other projects going on it always falls to the side. Other than updating my tour a little with Deej's help earlier this summer, the site has not been touched since 2005. I'm really just looking for a simple cms or a rework of my MAS and then encode everything to run off the wowza streaming server and be done with it.

Very true post :2 cents:

Adapt or Die is the key... very well stated!

adapt or die means nothing if cards are being declined like a mutherfucker.

hard to make a sale if companies deny a valid transaction.

if you don't take that into account you are a fool.

Nor are the BROgrams the beacon of light to guide this industry.

Plenty of small and medium companies are doing well in this economy, and changing times. Yes, many are not. But that can also be said for many of the BROgrams. After all, why would you engage in those practices mentioned if you were not hurting.

However, you are starting to see a lot of jokers, and hobbyists being gobbled up. The days of old where you just had to have a few bucks and some timing are over.

Well said.

Quality traffic will not be volume. It is harder to get, and you can't just buy it.

If there is a lot of FREE music on the Net... why I-Tunes makes millions $$$??
Because it's designed for adults that have money but little time to be searching in p2p for the songs, most of questionable quality (compared to young ppl, for them its the other way around, they have little money but lots of time).
As in Music, lets get used to have 2 markets in porn: a Massive Free/Tubes and a Niched Paid (small one but still profitable). Besides, we in PORN have key factors very rare to find in other market: impulsive buy and visual commodities fueled by imagination and expectations.
I believe there is a "pervert" inside every human. Many Internet users are still barely finding out that they have a "perv side" after spying in their friend's spouses, daughters and gf's accounts in Facebook and Myspace (what I call "light porn"). Soon these peope will want more explicit stuff...
So there is a second wave coming for the next decade, the Facebook Gen, a group of people that will take mainstream porn as free lunch and some of them will be willing to pay -yes, by impulse- for the satisfaction of very specific obscure fantasies and desires.

*A Note: I commented before in another post that I expect people to search more for custom-made porn, mash-ups of "real" stuff with porn, hence the growth of boards like anonib and the well known "chans".

Agreed.

A lot of people in this industry seem to be naive to the idea that everyone will buy. That is like the naive belief that Democrats can get, in mass, certain segments of voters to change sides and trying to spend millions on trying to get them.

They typically talk about this around the time of elections. Sometimes they waste the money chasing them, and other times they acknowledge it is a waste of time and money and do not even bother. Same rule applies here.

Out of the millions of potential customers, some will not pay for anything. They will spend endless hours looking for torrents or other ways to get the content without paying for it. Others either are not tech savy, or want to support the site(s) and content that provides them pleasure. So they have no problem paying for good stuff. Whether in niche or quality.

For example, I do not waste my time trying to market foot fetish and tickling to mainstream porn consumers with the "hopes" that some of them will be interested and pull out a credit card. I spend my time and energy targeting footie folk, and then within THAT group, trying to target BUYING footie folk.

I do not care about volume. I do not get paid on the traffic side of things. My money is in memberships. So I treat, or run, my business accordingly. Trying to find, and target, the BUYING footie folk and their main hang outs. So the traffic I DO get is QUALITY. So it is going to be very low volume. But those who do come, come to buy.

This is about that cliche of working smarter, not harder.

I do not need millions of hits an hour to burn my bandwidth, and resources hoping for a sale. I need people who want the content, and are willing to BUY it. I am in the SALES business.

Let's fact it. The vast majority of sites out there are complete garbage. That is why people are not buying. Add in the credit crisis. That BROgrams are banging in cards with cross sale shit, and crap content, never updating, and the rest. It is no wonder even the BUYING consumer is leary about joining any site.

Most of the BROgrams struggling did it to themselves.
:2 cents:

Place porn behind a pay for it model
 

I still say if you place porn behind a pay as you view model everyone will benefit.I went to a tube site and downloaded a 45 minute video , 45 minutes.Who needs to pay for it when you can get it for free. So you have to have a variety of products to sell ie . mainstream stuff.But if you place porn behind a pay as you go model even if it's a dollar for teasing view - no tgps mpgs or tube sites every one will benefit.Many people proudly boast of free porn but now that fewer people are buying are they still? Hello

No everyone in this industry is on the same page nor have the same priorities.

Some examples for you...

1. Some are in the traffic game, and do not give a flying fuck about the problems of the BROgrams, content producers, or small fry. As long as they can keep their traffic numbers high, their will always be some greedy, or lazy, program who will pay their ransom.

2. Not everyone is in this long term as a career or profession. They treat it like a get rich quick scheme, and making money is their main priority. They do not care how they get paid, as long as they are paid. It is something like a, "Fuck you. Pay me", from, "Goodfellas", mentality. As long as the money keeps flowing, they do not give a shit about the members, or others.

3. This industry is not a collective of people who will do anything in harmony. You are never going to get everyone to put shit behind lock and key, or streaming and no download or whatever. As soon as some move to that business model, you will have other mercenaries who use that as a sale pitch... "Come to our site. We are NOT them" type of thing.

4. In case you have not figured it out yet, so few in the online adult industry are actually business men or women with that mindset. They run their adult interests like a hobby. You do not believe it? Ask around.

How many actually have/do the following...

1. An LLC?
2. A business checking account completely separate from their personal assets?
3. A CPA
4. Report and pay accurate taxes, including ePassporte money received?
5. Subscribe to and read the trades?
6. Make over $XXX,XXX.00 a year? Or even high $XX,XXX.00 profit?

I bet you will be very surprised at the answers if people are truthful.

:2 cents:

You say this, yet you are marketing an extreme insertion site which involves fisting. To me this is a morally questionable issue. In many areas fisting can be prosecuted for obsenity reasons. I'm not saying I agree with it, but its a fact.

In my earlier statement I didn't insinuate people were doing anything shady or illegal, I'm saying they are marketing in "morally questionable" methods. Whether it be the sites they promote, the billing schemes they use, the content they sell, the traffic generation methods or so on. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's morally legit.

Sharkalicious.
:winkwink:

Mister Peabody World is less than a year old, as a Network, and is doing quite nicely. But nothing amazing or anything, just enough to live comfortably in New York City. But lately I've been thinking: fuck, I'm chillin' in New Yawk Fucking City for no reason whatsoever, except maybe family, and I could live and work somewhere else at half the price. THEN I would feel almost rich. LOL But things could always be more steady - it's the daily up-and-downs that are sometimes hard to cope with constantly.

Fuck man, seriously, I'm gonna print this out and hang it on my office wall!! LOL Great work - and totally 100% accurate, too. I'm one of those you mentioned at the end but it's tough as fuck, and yes I've done or am in the process of doing everything you listed. Cheers.

There's more than one way to skin a cat :2 cents: :1orglaugh

:thumbsup

:1orglaugh

Yeah, you started very late compared to the golden times where we used to make tons of cash by just posting a link...

Just curious in what country are you and what is the average income there?

For example?

Yeah that is true but I wasn't comparing us with people with dayjobs, I was more thinking of full time webmasters

I would say the upcoming generations will have to pay for most content again, porn, news, entertainment.....most companies especially mainstream don't make enough money from giving away stuff for free, Murdoch made the start with locking sites....

I doubt that anybody will share some real information but it would be interesting to hear how all you those say that you adapted, changed course, changed traffic sources and so on did that?

As I have mentioned in other threads in the past, this is nothing new.

The same everything free, internet utopian dream, existed in the late 90's and ended in early 2000's when the dot com bubble burst. Now here we are 10 years later with the same situation as back then.

It WILL change as it did before, and people WILL PAY as they did before. This is little more than v 2.0 of the same old song. Except there are more people online, and is a lot more shit for free already out there.

Free is not a business model to anyone other than traffic brokers. Unfortunately, few seem to have the business sense to realize this. Teaser trailers, fine. But these 5-20 minutes for free is simply madness. Again, works for the TRAFFIC guys, but not the content or BROgrams. At least into converting a sale.

I will be glad to see it come to an end, and those who thought this was the wave of the future gone with it. This is a long overdue pruning of the internet, and adult online. Frankly, I am looking forward to 2010 and a continued thinning of the herd.

After that, maybe the BROgrams will learn to raise the bar of entry and go back to invite, or pre-approval only. Putting their promotional content libraries back under lock and key.

:2 cents:

I got a machete and I am hacking my way to success.

Whatever it takes BROmance.
:winkwink:

I've had to change quite a few things over the years, but I'm still doing OK with adult. Of course it's not as good as six or more years ago.

I think iTunes works because of Micropayments.

yes cause i started late i dont have to complain that sales are down as i dont remember the good old times :) and im from czech republic and average, i mean better average income is about 1500 usd per month, so i have nothing to complain about :winkwink:

Yeah and plus that it is very easy to use, simple extremely user friendly

I see a lot of the smaller webmasters sort of 'waking up' and coming to terms with the fact they need to work hard again. People that had previously been really hard to get a reply from over email and/or icq are now coming out of the woodwork. I think those that actually are willing to work will be fine. It is those that think this is still 1997 that are going to have problems.

Thats why we have the "noworries" program.

No worrying about conversion or sales. Make money the oldskool way by selling it per click :)

I was talking about this thread: http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?t=939541 or a voucher solution like it.

Hey, how's the shooting over the in the Czech Republic? I'm thinking of visiting or doing an apartment-swap thng (I live in NYC so that shouldn't be a problem, EVERYONE wants to come HERE) and stay there for a month or two, to shoot content. Not the Glam high-priced girls but just average Czech 'amateurs'. Is this possible? Is it too expensive to even consider? LOL I started when you did, basically, and feel the way YOu do about sales: I don't remember 'the good ol' days' so it's ALL new to me.

That's the crappy thing about working in Norway. Saleries are high up here, we are out of the financial crisis and the dollar is crap towards our currency :/

I was in Norway in July and I loved the place but it is probably the most expensive place I have ever been.

A Lot of of programs have either closed down or are not paying webmasters.

2009 is the year where I have seen a lot of programs either quiting or not paying. Also a lot of webmasters, mostly small or average webmasters like gallery submitters, have quit and got a real job, because they can't pay their bills anymore.

Some gallery submitters are still trying to make a buck and working like slaves, submitting 5-10 galleries per day but they are stressed out because they can't keep their earnings, even by working harder than before. They will soon finish quiting and looking for new jobs.

I have never ever seen so many "I need a job" threads on GFY... never before like in 2009. Never seen so many "I'm selling my business and quitting for good" threads on GFY.

Do you want examples of this? Just do a search.

True dat.

There are a lot of old timer BROmaster generals selling everything off, or "retiring".

im buying if anyone's selling.

And BTW, people are not going to buy something they can get for free.

When someone wants a porn movie they either go to torrents sites, forums or rapidshare sites.

Adult forums where you can grab rapidshare links of FULL DVDs have 4000 registered online users at all times... Insane.

You want to make money? Sell something that is not available for free.

around 10 years ago I used to make and submit around 15 galleries per day and before the TGP's I was making batches of 20-30 avs sites per day

quality traffic is dead :(

Things are surely more difficult nowadays than they were 10 years ago. But that being said, there is still a lot of money to be made you just have to work harder for it. Studying SEO and marketing helps a lot instead of just copying what other people are doing, try to be innovative and the sales will come in.

I know a lot of guys still making good money off their targeted traffic (affiliates not sponsors). So yes, it's possible.

I'm making money with my little site in addition of making money from my design work as well. Things are good :)

:winkwink: :thumbsup

plenty of free sites have been sold off or quietly went blank in the last few years.

it's easier for a free site operator to go from 10k a month to 6 and still survive then it is for someone who was making 3k a month to go to 1200.

Are you saying this is the key to success?