Originally Posted by tiger (Post 16760417)

:2 cents::2 cents:

Insurance companies love where this is going just look at insurance stocks performance as this gets closer to passing.

Originally Posted by tiger (Post 16760417)

:2 cents::2 cents:

Insurance companies love where this is going just look at insurance stocks performance as this gets closer to passing.

Originally Posted by kane (Post 16759605)

2. Work with the republicans to create a new health care bill that both parties can get behind.

Originally Posted by Matt 26z (Post 16760714)

The Republicans secretly do not support ANY kind of healthcare reform for the simple reason that Democrats are associated so closely with the topic.

Even if there could be a bill that the Republicans agreed with in full, they don't want it. They would rather run negative ad campaigns in 2010 and 2012 saying how the Democrtas failed to pass healthcare reform.

Originally Posted by DudeRick (Post 16760072)

Gawd... You Democrats just dont listen... Here are the top 10...

-- Voluntary purchasing pools: Give individuals and small businesses the opportunities that large businesses and the government have to seek lower insurance costs.

-- Portability: As people change jobs or move across state lines, they change insurance plans. By allowing consumers to "own" their policies, insurers would have incentive to make more investments in prevention and in managing chronic conditions.

-- Lawsuit reform: It makes no sense to ignore one of the biggest cost drivers in the system -- the cost of defensive medicine, largely driven by lawsuits. Worse, many doctors have stopped performing high-risk procedures for fear of liability.

-- Require coverage of preexisting conditions: Insurance should not be least accessible when it is needed most. Companies should be incentivized to focus on delivering high-quality effective care, not to avoid covering the sick.

-- Transparency and payment reform: Consumers have more information when choosing a car or restaurant than when selecting a health-care provider. Provider quality and cost should be plainly available to consumers, and payment systems should be based on outcomes, not volume. Today's system results in wide variations in treatment instead of the consistent application of best practices. We must reward efficiency and quality.

-- Electronic medical records: The current system of paper records threatens patient privacy and leads to bad outcomes and higher costs.

-- Tax-free health savings accounts: HSAs have helped reduce costs for employers and consumers. Some businesses have seen their costs decrease by double-digit percentages. But current regulations discourage individuals and small businesses from utilizing HSAs.

-- Reward healthy lifestyle choices: Providing premium rebates and other incentives to people who make healthy choices or participate in management of their chronic diseases has been shown to reduce costs and improve health.

-- Cover young adults: A large portion of the uninsured are people who cannot afford coverage after they have "aged out" of their parents' policies. Permitting young people to stay on their parents' plans longer would reduce the number of uninsured and keep healthy people in insurance risk pools -- helping to lower premiums for everyone.

-- Refundable tax credits (for the uninsured and those who would benefit from greater flexibility of coverage): Redirecting some of the billions already spent on the uninsured will help make non-emergency care outside the emergency room affordable for millions and will provide choices of coverage through the private market rather than forcing people into a government-run system. We should trust American families to make choices for themselves while we ensure they have access to quality, affordable health care.

Originally Posted by The Demon (Post 16761207)

This is really an ignorant post GatorB. Most of us want healthcare reform. NONE of us want what Obama has offered. Wanting something doesn't mean we have to accept the first thing brought together. I'm hoping that this bill fails and that the Republicans and Democrats work together on a more realistic bill. Watching the past year closely, I don't think the Republicans don't want healthcare reform, they just don't want Obamacare.

And no, stop with the double standard about Obama. Nobody is hoping he fails at the expense of our economy. Most people think that he's a dumbass who's full of shit. If he fails it's because he sucks. If he succeeds it's because he's good. No 3rd choice, no Bush, nothing.

Originally Posted by fatfoo (Post 16759717)

I sure love Canada's free health care system. It's good to be a Canadian.

Originally Posted by nation-x (Post 16759660)

Uhh... I was under the impression that tomorrow was to elect a US Senator to represent the state of Massachusetts... last time I checked only people from Massachusetts can vote in that election... so how does that equal some referendum? You must live in Fox News land... :2 cents: Only one of those GOP propagandist idiots would come up with some twisted ass logic like that.

Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 16759954)

The health care bill is so far from liberal. lol A liberal bill would of been medicare for everyone done. This is so far from that. Its a healthcare and big pharm bail out. lol

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 16761382)

Being that we already have social healthcare, and that every kid under 18 that has a parent with a crap job can get free medical, or that I can go into a hospital, don't have to give my ssn, and then all Ameircans have to foot an extreme bill, or every old person in the Country...

You know... you would have to be a complete, anti-american, bastard.... to not want gov provided healthcare to pass.

For the love of god, we already have it, we pay 100x more than we should because you morons won't accept the fact that we already have social healthcare.

And this... is step 1. It's not like ANY countries healthcare plan stayed on exact tract from what was produced.

But only in American can you get a bunch of Americans that hate each other so much that they would rather see people die, go broke, or whatever simply to "think" they are saving tax dollars.

Fucking idiots...

Originally Posted by nation-x (Post 16761245)

Umm... Obama hasn't offered anything... only said what he would like to see... Congress offered bills. Maybe one of these days you will figure out how the government works. :2 cents:

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 16761382)

Being that we already have social healthcare, and that every kid under 18 that has a parent with a crap job can get free medical, or that I can go into a hospital, don't have to give my ssn, and then all Ameircans have to foot an extreme bill, or every old person in the Country...

You know... you would have to be a complete, anti-american, bastard.... to not want gov provided healthcare to pass.

For the love of god, we already have it, we pay 100x more than we should because you morons won't accept the fact that we already have social healthcare.

And this... is step 1. It's not like ANY countries healthcare plan stayed on exact tract from what was produced.

But only in American can you get a bunch of Americans that hate each other so much that they would rather see people die, go broke, or whatever simply to "think" they are saving tax dollars.

Fucking idiots...

Originally Posted by GatorB (Post 16760209)

Yes and people will fuck themselves over again. Sometimes people never learn.

Seriously why is 50% of America is retarded. Ok you claim to want healthcare reform but when it is presented you hate it? Huh? Do you want reform or not? Oh wait it costs too much. So you want reform that costs nothing. Ok that's work in FANTASYLAND. I live in the REAL WORLD. I'm GROWN UP enough to realize nothing is perfect. Waiting for perfection means waiting forever.

Not one single person that wants health care reform but is against this bill has plan of thier own. If you do post it. If not STFU until you come up with something better.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 16761382)

Being that we already have social healthcare, and that every kid under 18 that has a parent with a crap job can get free medical, or that I can go into a hospital, don't have to give my ssn, and then all Ameircans have to foot an extreme bill, or every old person in the Country...

You know... you would have to be a complete, anti-american, bastard.... to not want gov provided healthcare to pass.

For the love of god, we already have it, we pay 100x more than we should because you morons won't accept the fact that we already have social health care.

And this... is step 1. It's not like ANY countries health care plan stayed on exact tract from what was produced.

But only in American can you get a bunch of Americans that hate each other so much that they would rather see people die, go broke, or whatever simply to "think" they are saving tax dollars.

Fucking idiots...

Originally Posted by Vendzilla (Post 16761505)

LOL, I love the way you call people names to get out of debating anything with logic.
Comparing to other countries, they don't have our problems
Yea we cover kids and ER visits, we even cover Haiti
Most Americans don't want the government running heathcare till they can come up with a better plan and if you can't wait for that, then the idioticy is in your mirror

Originally Posted by The Demon (Post 16761649)

You're typing to a brick wall here lol.

And while I don't agree with GatorB and accuse him of ignorance, this isn't a debate about liberal vs. conservative. The health care bill should provide more help for more people while maintaining the stability of the country. As a fiscal conservative, I see no way we could have health care reform without plunging this country into further debt and inevitable collapse, and therefore I am against it. If Obama really wanted to change health care, he wouldn't have went on a deficit spending spree never before seen in the history of the world. That's what you get from a guy who doesn't know what he wants.

Originally Posted by The Demon (Post 16761444)

Ignorance at its finest. I especially love "You have to be a complete anti-american bastard.." THAT is priceless. You'd have to be an anti American bastard to expand government control, especially over delicate issues such as health care.

Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 16761473)

oh how the deluded prattle on.
Here's an idea.
#1 give businesses a 100% write off for the medical coverage they offer their employees. This will cause all employers to cover all of their employees.
#2 fix the fucking economy you stupid liberal cunt. You don't fix the economy by over taxing those of us who create jobs.
#3 refuse treatment in emergency rooms for all those people who do not have an emergency.
#4 create a new "indigent class" for people and families living below the poverty line who are eligible for medicare. make them meet certain requirements to remain eligible. This would be a very small group of unemployed people because of the dynamic created in #1.
#5 pass legislation disallowing insurers to turn down people because of pre-existing conditions.
#6 create a poll tax that every working american pays into to cover true emergencies for people who have no coverage.

This is just the plan I came up with off the top of my head. If I had time to think about it, I'd come up with an even better one. However, the off the top of my head plan would be far far better than what is currently being foisted upon us and would NOT sink our country into the kind of unrecoverable debt that your lord and savior is about to throw us into.

Originally Posted by nation-x (Post 16759597)

Brown will lose tomorrow

Originally Posted by Vendzilla (Post 16761505)

LOL, I love the way you call people names to get out of debating anything with logic.
Comparing to other countries, they don't have our problems
Yea we cover kids and ER visits, we even cover Haiti
Most Americans don't want the government running heathcare till they can come up with a better plan and if you can't wait for that, then the idioticy is in your mirror

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 16761715)

Delicate? Just do it, it's only delicate because you're a brain is wired backwards making it think the gov is going to take control over you...

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 16761792)

Nothing to debate...

Other countries DO have our problems...and different ones. We are not unique because we are American, we can do it exactly like other Countries, and those other countries even cover Haiti as well.

I think you have it backwards with most Americans... it's without question, the extreme majority of Americans want something different than what we currently have, they want Gov ran health care.. just "many" people do not want it in this version.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla (Post 16761670)

I talked to my doctor about it yesterday, he believes that if the government really wanted to effect meaningful change to the current problems, they would limit liability, thats the biggest problem they have, with all the tests they have to run to keep from getting sued later. Law Suits have really screwed things up with insurance and thats where they can save the most money, having the government control it is not the answer

Originally Posted by The Demon (Post 16761814)

This is true.

Originally Posted by PR_Tom (Post 16761841)

Except he fails to address that this is medical malpractice insurance he is referring to. Not individual health care insurance.

Ah.. two posts is over my limit.

Originally Posted by The Demon (Post 16761810)

Actually no, other countries have different problems, many people I know who have universal healthcare hate it, and every poll I've ever seen shows that Americans want health care reform, but they DONT want universal healthcare. As usual, you can't differentiate between fact and your delusional world.

Originally Posted by The Demon (Post 16761797)

I'm a brain is wired backwards? What are you, super mario? I don't think we should question your incompetence any longer.

And no, we will never have universal healthcare in this country, but keep dreaming.

Originally Posted by PR_Tom (Post 16761830)

The right's answers are always pro-business under some fantasy theory of "trickle down". Thanks for the offer of a trickle. Again. (please learn some new ideas ty)

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 16761933)

Well yeah, different states in American have different problems too, but in general they mainly have the same issues. Same with Countries... and what other Countries have you lived in to know? Maybe I know from personal experience?

Yes, people YOU know... but the majority when asked "non-twisted-worded" polls, show an extreme amount want health care provided by the Gov or the State, and not by Corporations. They want reform too... but bigger than that, they want it different than it is now.

Maybe that's a way you will understand...

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 16761940)

Oh we will have it..that's a guarantee. As more of the anti-American right dies off, the real Americans that care for each other will be "left", and we will get it passed...

Originally Posted by fatfoo (Post 16759717)

I sure love Canada's free health care system. It's good to be a Canadian.

Originally Posted by Pussylove (Post 16762000)

There are some more countries with a good/free health care System :)

What's going wrong in the US ?