Yep, I ate the sponsored lunch on the second day. Walked over to the bar with Claudia-Marie and asked for 2 cokes. We got two tiny plastic cups of soda (about one swig each) and paid TEN DOLLARS for it.

That's what I'm saying about us being played at shows. It's bullshit, and we should stop acting like dumb tourists. The show has been going on in Vegas for well over a decade. There simply isn't any excuse why it isn't held at a venue that appreciates having us there and LOWERS prices in order to get the show.

I thank everyone for their continuing feedback on Internext.

If you prefer to provide me your thoughts non-publicly, please feel free by emailing me or sending me an ICQ.

Fremont has been a covered walkway for years and it still sucks. Filled with cheap older losers walking around with football shaped margaritas/beers. There is a reason why all the money is being put on the strip, because downtown is ass. And Glitter Gulch sucks. It sucked a decade ago and it sucks now. The whole scene is renoesque....and thats not a good thing.

I agree. Only one really should be there....

To each his own I suppose.
I love partying there. And I didn't see many of the cheap older losers you're talking about either. And isn't the reason the "money is being put on the strip" pretty much because the strip is nothing but corporate?

I like the old school feel of Fremont much better than the plastic, cold feel of the "new" strip. Had a super nice suite at the Golden Nugget for a couple of hundred bucks. The Grotto there is an excellent Italian restraunt, and their swimming pool with the shark tank is pretty cool too. No need to take a cab that will ass rape you because all the casinos AND Glitter Gulch and several bars are all right there to walk around from place to place.

Everybody has different tastes though.

I like to get a tower suite overlooking the fountains at The Bellagio when I'm in the mood for decadence.

But for Internext? Fremont would be the place. Cheaper, funner, and a lot more things to do.

This year i bought the tickets for 150 dollar as early bird. I won't pay 300 dollars for a showfloor where i will look 30 minutes, and seminars i always miss cause they are to early. Also there were less floor parties, or you needed an invatation. And the best party from mojohost was even in the Goldcoast.

But the business was good and i met a lot of interesting people with good ideas. Overall, the AVN and Internext were worth the money.

- A domain auction was also fun last year.
- cheaper hotel is ok if more people show up
- go more to the strip, then everyone can select easy from different hotels on walking distance
- set up a AVN 24 hour pokerroom with free drinks as alternative and meeting point. free beer and soda
- I stayed in in the Golden Nugget last days, it might be cheaper downtown, it also has less bling bling
- in amsterdam it seemed like there was a open bar all the time (till people started ordering Champagne and the max was reached)

Yeah, to each their own.

I've hung out on Fremont a few times and it's always been the same. Drunk, midwest/biker couples to cheap to spring for a room on the strip. Couple that with the carni kiosks selling cheesy "I was a JackOff in Vegas" T-shirts and you've lost me.

And I much prefer the plastic Rhino over the way to real Glitter Gulch anyday.

But I agree that having Internext on the Strip itsnt necessary, but neither is slumming it downtown. Tons of smaller Mission Palms style hotels on the outskirts/Summerlin/Green Valley that would work and be exclusive to the convention. Then just have shuttles running all day to the strip/clubs/downtown and everybody is happy.

And then instead of the $5 cokes you get the free snack shacks :)

Just out of curiousity...why do you like the Rhino over Glitter Gulch? Remember a couple of years ago when one of the sponsors had a "party" at the Rhino? It was supposed to be all set up for us with drinks and everything. When we all got there, it was a tiny roped off section and of course we paid the insane drink prices. lol It was no fun at all. I've had some decent times there as a customer...but for having an industry event? Wouldn't a place like Glitter Gulch be much better? Especially if all we had to do was walk across the covered walkway. The manager Tom there is very cool and would welcome us with open arms and hospitality instead of just trying to gouge us for money like the Rhino did.

And hell, if we want to get off the old and new strip, then might as well do it at a Station Casino.

They had the Big Boob Pornstar convention at The Texas Station. It's only 15 minutes from my house, but I got a room there anyway. Room sucked. But it was only $40 a night and we partied our ass off. But it would definitely be "slumming" it. Especially compared to The Golden Nugget.

I don't know...I've been to the shows since 1998 and I just can't fathom why it isn't set up to make things better and less expensive. Instead it seems to me that it's all set up to charge us more than the usual over-inflated prices. We get treated like a bunch of marks.

I would just like to see it somewhere where everyone could have fun, be together, get business done, and go home without spending 10 grand.

Is there a reason to have it during CES? If it wasnt during CES the prices would drop like a rock for all hotels. Also why do people need fancy when most work at home in their drawers? I could never understand that.

I personally prefer the Rhino over Glitter Gulch because of the quality of girls and the atmosphere. Some of the hottest girls from all over the worls fly into the Rhino to dance and GG gets the downtown retreads. It's really no comparison. There is a reason why Rhino is packed every night until 5am while othet clubs in town are dead and its not due to the location. Yeah the drinks are expensive but its a strip club. Girls are hot, they're cool and for the most part dont hustle and I've never had a bad time. Cant say the same for the few times i've found myself at Glitter Gulch. On a side note I go with my wife and the girls at the Rhino seem to like couples so it helps the overall experience.

That being said I definitely wouldnt recommend an industry event at the Rhino, or really any strip club for that matter, unless you could rent the whole place for the show. But why would you in the first place, not exactly good for a business getting deals done atmosphere?

Just book Hooters (the old san remo). Rooms are cheap, happy hour special on wings and ice cold beer, motel six is next door for the super cheap asses, MGM Grand is across the street for some parties at Tabu and Studio 54, and the strip is within walking distance.

Never stayed there but the rooms have to be better than the Gold Coast. And if the Hooters rooms dont do it for ya the MGM grand bungalow and terrace suites are across the street as well. Just saying.

I like the Golden Nugget idea. The old LasVegas gives the whole thing a vintage vegas feel. That would be cool..

Our flight from Internext went not so well. After they booked us to another flight to Amsterdam cause the one we were going had 4 hours delay, we were first flying to Washington. On the way a nervous sounding stewardess was saying that we were going to the nearest airport, Denver. There were problems with one engine and they had to drop kerosine to lighten the plane and land as soon as possible. After 40 minutes we landed at Denver. For the first time in years people start applauding when the plane landed safe. A new plane took us then to Washington where we had to wait 20 hours for the next flight. United dropped us in a fine resort, so they took care of next flights and a sleeping place.

My GF had another seat than i had. I was sitting at the emergency exit, see at he end of the plane. That was cuase they booked us to another plane with no place for 2 sitting next to eachother. We changed seats for the flight Denver - washington so she felt more comfortable.

I think this was a bad week for flying. People that had flights to AEE and Internext had serious delays, 40+ hours. Maybe next time in Amsterdam, more safe for us :)

Chris, you asked for public feedback, lets just keep it all up here:2 cents:

There's been a lot of valid comments so far and many of them I agree with fully. This year I did all of my networking at the center bar and at the parties and I did not plan it that way. There just seemed to be many people receptive to talking shop. The only vendor in Rain that interested me at this time was Red Light Center. I'm not sure Rain is the best place for vendor booths.

I stayed at The Rio this year because I got a good deal there at $40 per night and because in the past I have always wandered over there for a meal or a show. I would like to suggest that hotel as a possible future venue for Internext. It has a convention center, a selection of bars and restaurants, reasonable rates, nice ambiance, a casino, entertainment, a beach though it's cold in January, and it is walking distance to the Gold Coast and close enough to The Palms if some group had an event there.

Regardless of the venue I think there should be:
More girls (models or talent)
Reasonably priced drinks (I paid $5 for seltzer water at Rain)
Continued seminars
More parties that are geared for networking. Maybe have parties with vendor themes in mind such as a party with all billing sponsors and a party with all affiliate program sponsors.

Why do people keep saying have more girls there? They dont have strip clubs where you live? lol

Yes, I agree. Not to be harsh towards the girls, but I've never gotten any biz done with them directly.

This is a really good point. People often point out the Internext of five years ago... but the difference between that show and the shows we all get now is less to do with anything AVN is doing and more to do with the companies and individuals who attend. Budgets are way down, plain and simple. Companies are still doing things, they're just doing less.

Take the show floor. Internext used to have a show floor that was as big as AEE's show floor is now. But webmasters started saying things like this: "Why should I buy a booth when I can just show up and work the floor for free?" Then their friends jumped in: "Yeah, yeah man, same here." And pretty soon, AVN was forced to come up with a new concept... and we got the night club format at the Palms. We saw a comment in this thread alone about not buying a badge, just showing up to the hotel to work deals. These kinds of things force AVN to make changes to react... but the industry should understand that when they do, it's just in reaction to all of us and how we're behaving.

Something everyone should keep in mind though is this: running a trade show like Internext isn't cheap. AVN has to come to an agreement with the hotel, and they're on the hook for things like the number of hotel rooms (at the Palms) that MUST be bought, the amount of food bought, etc. And hotels will nickel and dime you to virtual death any chance they get with things like 23% service fees on already inflated food prices for catering, $2000 to rent a projector for a day that costs $1000 to buy at Fry's, $40 for every banner that needs to be hung somewhere (time a hundred), etc, etc. AVN would have to pay all this stuff or not have a show there. So I can tell you this... Chris won't say this, but when you put a lot of money on the line to throw a show, you spend time and resources making it happen and promote it to the industry, then people show up and enjoy your work without even buying a badge... well that's frustrating beyond belief.

Also, the companies that DO show up and sponsor the show, throw parties for us, private or otherwise, etc., these people make the show possible. These companies deserve our appreciation at the very least, and our consideration for business. They're investing into the industry and making sure we have a culture outside of message boards, a chance to all meet up and network face to face.

I understand budgets aren't unlimited these days... so it comes down to this, IMO. The more support the industry can give a show, the better the organizers can make it. There's still plenty of love for Internext, and it's likely that companies will feel a little better in 2010 than they did in 2009, so I think given that AVN will put on the best show possible, as always.

if the show was done when not vegas is busy ie:the ces show. They could probably get much better deals on everything especially in these hard times.Also maybe in the internet age the show model is dying?

The show model is not dying. Getting smaller perhaps, but it's still a very relevant way of doing business. What's happening is the people who were going to shows primarily to party are just not going anymore in the droves that they used to, and many of the newcomers who are now going to adult shows are startups who are very hungry and motivated.

The show model will die only if we as an industry LET it die... and I don't think that's happening. If it did happen, it would really be a shame. All of the best relationships that I've formed in this industry have come as a result of face-to-face environments. The reason why we have a presence at almost all of the shows is because getting together with people in person and talking business really does work.

The shows need to better cater to that crowd, and not so much BROgrams then.

Seminars with these endless talking heads about nonsense, or repeating the same horse shit simply will not cut it. I do not want to hear about someone's product or sales pitch on a forum unless it is truly revolutionary.

A seminar would better be spent with fewer panelists, so you could get more meat on the bone of a subject, without sales pitch bullshit. Here is an example for you.... mobile. At a seminar on mobile, I want to hear about how to CONVERT mobile, how to filter your traffic for mobile, how to SELL mobile. Not some company simply talking about how they are mobile leader, and how they are having BROgrasmic sales.

Another good top would be distribution... how many content producers are hurting? Many. Not all are webmaster/content producers like myself. I am sure that some of them would like to know other places, and how, to sell their material to make some money and stay in business. Whether it is a clip store, or licensing, or companies who are doing DVD or other forms of distribution for them to make some money on their libraries. THAT would be a seminar of some use.

Or a seminar talking about quality traffic and sources, not just a sales pitch from some traffic broker. Things like that. The point being, that the middle class of adult is vanishing. The shows need to cater to the start ups, and mom and pops. That is the growth market.

BROgrams typically are NOT going to seminars at most shows. They already know most players and will close deals over BRO drinks. Seminars are typically for newer people, or for new concepts. Which is attended, typically, by new people. Frankly, this is one of many examples where I think some of the shows have lost their way.

Not all shows are the same. I have said this many times about the San Fran/YNOT show compared to many of these others. It was a nice change to see FULL seminars. It was nice to actually talk some real business, and meet people who were serious about knowledge and getting things done. Plus you meet many who you may not have noticed, or met, at other shows. Especially niche providers.

That said, I personally do not like San Fran. However, I will say Connor and LAJ put on a good show and if you have not checked it out, it's worth it. Plus you do not get ass raped like at some of the other shows.

Not all shows are the same, and they are what you make of them. However, some are put together better to support that business aspect, as well as a few social events for everyone. Not just private parties. Which seems to be coming more common.
:2 cents:

Then maybe its the big over the top show is dead and the small more personal ones are the key. The only problem with them is for the people in the big show business.There isnt much money in having a smaller, intimate show that is low cost and effective.

Correct.

While the most valuable. Not the most profitable.

:2 cents:

I'm asking for private feedback too. "removed upon request" :winkwink:

As much as I agree that shows should not discount newbies... which happens too often... you can't discount to "BROgrams" either. First, the good ones gives the newbies content, and something to promote that stands a good chance of converting. Second, they are the primary sponsors of these shows, and that makes the shows possible in the first place. Ideally, you get a nice mix, and everyone finds something of value at the show for their particular goals.

True dat.

However, I can remember many show seminars that have been absolutely worthless and more than deserved the 12-36 people in the audience. They were little more than 6-8 people on a panel giving you a sales pitch and telling you about how BROgasmic they were.

I guess if you want to throw shows like that, where the only real use is in the out of seminar networking time, then it is common sense why most do not want to buy a badge. Nor support the show and opt instead to going out side to have their BRO drinks and do business.

The point is, if you want people to pay $300.00 for a badge. Then you need to make it of some use to them. If the seminars are going to be talking heads, and sales pitches, then no one will want to go and pay for it. So do not blame the attendees for not wanting to waste their money.

If the badge can't get them some useful seminars, then maybe a free meal, a discount on their hotel room, some nice parties, or free BRO drinks. You need to actually have some kind of ROI on the badge investment. I have yet to see any provided by the show sponsor people in the thread.

The point is... you have to prove some actual VALUE for the cost of a badge. Just giving people a time and place to show up at a hotel and shake some hands for a few days is not a real VALUE, nor cost effective, to anyone. Big or small.

:2 cents:

WTF? Seriously? I think pop/water should be free and drinks $2... you paid $300 to get in the bloody door... makes me think the same guys who do the pricing for movie theater concessions run the show... brutal. :disgust

Would never attend a show if the drink prices were that high... ever. I'd attend just to check out seminars and maybe network a little for some traffic trades but that would be pretty much it for me from a affiliate standpoint... the show wouldn't really offer me anything else of value.

Very good points :thumbsup

""Chris won't say this, but when you put a lot of money on the line to throw a show, you spend time and resources making it happen and promote it to the industry, then people show up and enjoy your work without even buying a badge... well that's frustrating beyond belief.""

Very True :2 cents:

if the model only works with huge sponsors and you still have to pay to get in. Then the model is either broke or greed plays a role. The mainstream video show to walk the show floor is free, at comdex in atl the show floor was free. That's the point of sponsors.They "sponsor" the show. Now you want to go to the classes its very expensive.
I have a idea that would be productive for the people that would go but wouldnt make a dime it would be a wash actually.

Couple of things.

I think it's important not to confuse cheapness with value. People don't book rooms at the Gold Coast because they're poor, they do it because there is little extra value in being in the more expensive venue across the street. I don't think anyone would mind a more expensive hotel (Westin Diplomat, Mission Palms, for example) if they were getting their moneys worth. You can say it's not fair to compare to other better shows all you want, but that's what the attendees are doing.

By the same token, guilt shouldn't be your only way of selling those $300 badges. If they were worth $300, everyone would buy one. Show threads always complain about value. I mean really, take a sheet of paper and write down what someone with a badge receives compared to someone without a badge... it's pretty funny.

Ok you bring a good point, but these are probably consumers (b2c) shows. and please don't forget the kind of industry we work in... IF the shows were free, then you'd have 1000 Johny Dicks on the floor but you wouldn't do any business... We have B2B shows... The idea of having a price tag and a badge to get in filters the Joe Shmoes who are coming for the "tits& Asses" factor only. Ok I agree that 300$ for the badge is "over filtering", but you really need to have a minimal price in order to filter who gets in and who is serious about doing biz in this industry :)

:2 cents:

Sponsors put a lot of money into shows like Internext, but it's unreasonable to expect them to cover the entire bill for a large show like that, especially in a business climate where spending is conservative. I don't think many people appreciate just how expensive these hotels really are, and the risk they force organizers to take on. AVN stands to LOSE money if the show goes badly... and not just a little... there are all kinds of possible risks that keep show organizers up at night. So given they're putting on the show at huge risk, and they're spending resources, paying for marketing so as many people as possible show up, devoting staff, etc., shouldn't they get SOMETHING for the effort? Take a look at what shows like Web 2.0 Expo charge for full attendance for multiple days... and then look at that obscene list of sponsors with names like Microsoft. Prices are so good in this industry for shows it's not even funny... and we have the more interesting talent at our shows. ;)

I agree :thumbsup

Freemont street is what you make it. I'm not crazy about the light show but where else do you have so much within stumbling distance? There's something to be said for "slummin it" it Vegas, when you go to the older casinos you don't just get more bang for your buck but you also get unparalled service. When you drop $500 on the strip no one bats and eye, but you drop $500 in old town it's like everyone knows your name. And Glitter Gultch might not have the hottest girls, but I guarantee they're more fun than the girls at the Rhino.

Also, seriously, the Golden Nugget is alot nicer than some of you think. When I have to go into Vegas for family business that's where I stay and over the last 6 years it has been constantly improving. Everytime I'm in it there's something new, something different, you'd be surprised how classy they made the joint.

Exactly! You really can't compare our industry to consumer shows where the whole goal is to just get as many people as possible in the door to sell them stuff. With a B2B show, you want people who take their attendance at least somewhat seriously.

People buy a badge for; seminars, floorparties, playboy club parties, open bar parties, fun, networking, talk about experiences.


- seminars, to early to attend
- floorparties, the best were in Goldcoast and Sapphire
- playboy club parties - none
- open bar parties, few
- fun
- networking, circle bar
- talk about experiences, circle bar
- floorshow, much billing

So next year in hooters?
- everyone drops 100 dollar for an own bar and beer
- sponsors/ affiliates can rent a booth/chair in the bar, we spend that on alcohol
- seminars are 25 dollars, sponsors can buy a seat in the panel
- from 11 - 18:00 the bar is also the showfloor
- from 19:00 - 21:00 walk in buffet
- sponsors can sponsor more booze, or dinners and better club parties
- after 19:00 there is a cheap bar, beer 1 dollar, domestic drinks 2 dollar
- 20 dollar lapdance not included, can be sponsored

All we need is a cheap bar, a seminar room and affiliates organise it. We can easily promote it by using our newsletters, msn, forums and sites :) we make banners, every sponsor / attendee that signs up by your aff id will get 10 dollar off from the hotel price.

We send newsletters to all sponsors/attendees with affiliate id's in it. That money will be spend on drinks.

Let's go dutch.

Maybe it is possible for affiliates to set up floorparties. Why wait till a big sponsors set something up.

Golden Nugget is a good hotel. Better dan Harrah's and even the normal rooms in the Palms. But the atmospehere at the strip is more bling bling. Which is nice, different crowd and more show off. If you don't try, we will never know it. The Pallms isn't a good location either, to far away from the strip.

Let's be honest, that's just an excuse for freeloaders to feel better about what they're doing. Porn is worth something too... it costs to produce it, the girls have to get paid at the very least, there's equipment to buy, there's demand for the product, etc., yet people still take what they can get for free more often than pay for it. It's why so many people here are complaining about the $300 badge now for a three day event -- that wouldn't have happened in 2003, for example, when porn sales were higher. Either enough people see the big picture, or they can instead choose to think of themselves as clever freeloaders and watch as all the show organizers move on to other things.

If the event isn't worth the badge price then just don't show up. Simple. If you're showing up, then you see value. If you see value, then don't be cheap... buy a badge. Personally I note when people don't have a badge but show up anyway... it doesn't impress me, it makes me think that person is broke. Most shows offer discounted badges for people who buy early too... I don't recall, but I bet AVN did with Internext.

Come on man. People, and companies, do not put on these conferences out of the good of their heart and for the warm fuzzy feeling of their industry brotherin. They do it for profit.

Right.

When the the attendance goes down, the value of a show, and ROI for the expense go down the profit margin those throwing the show should also go down. Funny the shows even 12-18 months ago provided more parties, and better all around experience for the money.

Yes, let's. Porn production is not the same as an adult industry conference.

As fuzebox said, take a piece of paper. Fold it in half. Write out what the badge, and non-badge, benefits are. In 2009/2010 there is little value in the badge. Which is why few buy them, and many more are not even staying at the conference hotel.

So Called Benefits:

Seminars that suck or are repeats of last show.
Show floors that are nothing but processors or billing booths.
No/few parties. Most are invite only now.
Pussycash neck band.
Looking BROgasmic with your badge around your neck

I respect you man, and think you do a good job on your show and making it stand out from the crowd. However, some of these arguments do not hold water for attendees.