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Shoplifter

03-18-2010 12:25 PM

There is no doubt the lack of competition amongst the various billers has hurt the industry.

Since the IPSP shakedown in 2002 left us with just a few players there has been almost no movement whatsoever on the payment front. In some cases we see join pages and technologies that haven't budged an inch since 2002 or even earlier.

The only innovation has been through those who have pursued their own billing solutions, and even in that case there hasn't been the creativity there should have been, largely because they didn't have to move too fast to compete with the IPSP's.

Now fast forward to 2010...The online world has completely changed and there is just no new input on monetizing the industry coming at all from anyone. No new ideas in years. Pretty scary stuff.

lagcam

03-18-2010 12:26 PM

Nail on head CosmicTang. Great post.

However much everybody loves ccbill and epoch, I guarantee you, you would love them more if their prices were lower. Competition can only help that become a reality.

Jack Sparrow

03-18-2010 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicTang (Post 16957147)

It's just how you define competition? Really?

Merriam-Webster defines competition in business as "the effort of two or more parties acting independently to secure the business of a third party by offering the most favorable terms".[2]. It was described by Adam Smith in The Wealth of Nations (1776) and later economists as allocating productive resources to their most highly-valued uses.[2] and encouraging efficiency. Later microeconomics theory distinguished between perfect competition and imperfect competition, concluding that with the no system of resource allocation is more efficient than perfect competition. Competition, according to the theory, causes commercial firms to develop new products, services and technologies, which would give consumers greater selection and better products. The greater selection typically causes lower prices for the products, compared to what the price would be if there was no competition (monopoly) or little competition (oligopoly).

I didn't miss your point. Having a particular company (or competitor) who performs poorly for whatever reason doesn't negate the need for competition nor make competition bad. That's akin to throwing the baby out with the bath water. Or if you prefer: one bad apple doesn't spoil the whole barrel. Pick up an economics text somewhere. Anywhere. Keynes, Friedman, Smith, doesn't matter. There's a reason their views on economics have won Nobel prizes and continue to be taught in universities. Competition is a good thing for the market, always. It doesn't guarantee there won't be poor performers or other mishaps, it guarantees innovation, more customer choices and better services at lower rates. It does NOT guarantee freedom from problems.

Let's take your example about the Dutch bank that went under. What if that was the ONLY bank available and it crashed? How would THAT situation have worked out for people? Are you picking up what I'm putting down yet?

It's not a matter of saying don't do your due diligence inspecting which baskets to put your eggs in. That's a given. Even the strongest basket can break under the right circumstances. That's why you pick as many as make sense.

There are two strong IPSP billing companies out there right now. Having more would be better for the industry, not worse. Having more competition will lower prices for the consumers and provide an even better product. Again, to refute these economic principles is to rewrite the science of economics. If you're able to do that successfully my hat's off to you and congratulations on your forthcoming Nobel Prize.

And you still didnt get my point.

CosmicTang

03-18-2010 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrfrisky (Post 16957495)

And you still didnt get my point.

Oh I got it alright. In two different posts you said that competition is not always the best thing for the consumer. It was as loud and clear as it was wrong.

Kimmykim

03-18-2010 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaughtyVisions (Post 16950592)

Zombaio has been around since 2003, though not processing adult, still in a high risk area.

From their site:

[I]Our History

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's pretty damn close to that 7-8 year window you mention, imho. :2 cents:

Haha, anyone can put anything they want to on the internet and people will believe it. I'm not saying it's untrue, but I find it almost laughable that every few months these guys poke their heads up with some skin or ad or whatever and then fail to answer some of the most basic questions about compliance. Or the answers they do provide are ludicrous, imo.

Epoch charges what they charge because of two things --
1. high risk is not cheap to process -- the banks and the card associations see to that.
2. they're in business to make money and no matter how you look at it, if you aren't making money on transactions, then you're not going to stay in business.

And those companies that don't stay in business don't pay on their way out.

There are a lot of rumors about a lot of banks/companies and compliance issues right now. I'd be very careful who I trusted with my money if I were a site owner.

Kimmykim

03-18-2010 02:24 PM

And last but not least, do the math... your own merchant account is going to cost you well over 4-5% by the time you add up all the other affiliated costs that you have in order to do business and stay compliant with the card association rules.

I've always said that the only difference in cost of a merchant account and IPSP at the end of the day is the ownership of the data.

Zombaio_Tomas

03-18-2010 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimmykim (Post 16957898)

I'm not saying it's untrue, but I find it almost laughable that every few months these guys poke their heads up with some skin or ad or whatever and then fail to answer some of the most basic questions about compliance. Or the answers they do provide are ludicrous, imo.

Kimmy, with respect, but what is un-answered? Also, you gave us 6 months when we first skinned GFY, its almost 3 years ago now.

We have been HR processing for 8 years now.... 8 years. We have been asked by Visa to participate in a internal debate about how G2 is doing in the adult for example, with their extremly poor data-mining technology. There are senior relations between us and the card networks you can't imagine. Now what about compliance? What is it you want me to answer?

Maybe its time to bury the axe....

RaiderCash_Dominik

03-18-2010 03:54 PM

I think we are going to switch to zombaio sooner or later.

Jack Sparrow

03-19-2010 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicTang (Post 16957620)

Oh I got it alright. In two different posts you said that competition is not always the best thing for the consumer. It was as loud and clear as it was wrong.

I guess you did get part of it right.

Not going into this argument again, you seem to hang to some economists opinions whilst ignoring a lot of others, so its no use to waste time trying to explain over and over again.

Maybe a nice quote, it could be possible that my lack of english is the reason why you dont get my point:

'Strive towards zero competition, a place where you offer a service / product so different from what your current competitors offer that it is effectively a new offering, ahead of the rest, and something no one can compete with'.

[ Nate ]

03-19-2010 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Si (Post 16949764)

Didn't Dirty White Boy have a big problem with ePoch?

He had a HUGE problem with epoch.

Jack Sparrow

03-19-2010 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [ Nate ] (Post 16959595)

He had a HUGE problem with epoch.

I think he had more of a problem with one of their employees, not with epoch or its services?

lagcam

03-19-2010 10:24 AM

DWB's problem was nothing to do with epoch's processing abilities or rates. He just took a stand on principle against something that probably wasn't handled as well as it might have been.

Ayway........Bump for saving money.

For people to add Zombaio to their options for new customers and for epoch and ccbill to review their operations and reward the loyalty of their customers by giving some of those huge profits back with some lower rates or quicker payouts.

CosmicTang

03-19-2010 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrfrisky (Post 16959368)

Yeah, some economist's opinions while ignoring a lot of others. That's what I'm putting down. I think you might have that backwards. I'm citing hundreds of years of economic practice and most of the economists worth listening to.

I'm familiar with what you're talking about, Jerry Garcia said don't be the best at what you do, be the only one who does it. And while there is merit in that tell me, what innovation have you seen in the billing industry over the past several years? What decrease in price? You know why? Guess.

Ladyboy King

03-19-2010 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harmik (Post 16950469)

I would just like to mention, that Epoch has been around for 14 years, and I have been there 11 of those years. We have more payment options and there is a reason we have been around this long. I have heard so many rumors over the years, but the truth is that we are still standing as many others have come and gone.

15% is rape and robbery.

Ibill was larger than Epoch and they failed. Don't think you are too big to fail, because you're not. Much of the US banking sector just learned this lesson the hard way, yet you learned nothing from it. That is a reckless mindset.

Adult is high risk regardless of who you use. Any one of these companies could be gone in the morning, don't let their slick ads, trade show face and reps fool you. They are ALL high risk. Those who pretend not to be, like Rand does, do not deserve your business.

Dennis69

03-19-2010 05:25 PM

Good thread... but whats really funny is years ago when I first started using Vertrol it was the same stuff... not charging the 750 Visa fee etc etc!!!

How many webmasters said they would be gone in no time and in this post I see webmasters saying ccbill, epoch, and VERTROL!!!!

And now it's the same thing with the new guy in town... Zombaio!!!!

Jack Sparrow

03-20-2010 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis69 (Post 16961695)

whats vertrol?

PastorSinAlot

03-20-2010 07:50 AM

http://www.verotel.com/price/ticketsclub

Dennis69

03-20-2010 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrfrisky (Post 16962655)

whats vertrol?

Sorry after using them for 5 or 6 years I still can't spell it :)

verotel

Boobgirl

03-21-2010 02:25 PM

Zambio Fees -

1)4.9% if you use their limited partnership agreement and say that your headquarters are in Sweden on your site & 2257 AND have Zombaio as your MAIN first Cascade processor. Both are fine if Zambio is your ONLY processor. Doesn't work when you have multiple or merchant accounts or other issues.

2) 9% if you use you do not use them as your main processor in a cascade.

3) 7.9% if you do not use their limited partnership agreement and use US/Canada address instead. I do not know if this changes if you do not use them as primary cascade biller.

candyflip

03-21-2010 02:41 PM

Everytime I open this thread I get a Malware warning regarding AdultGruntWork.com

Fix your shit dude.

candyflip

03-21-2010 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PastorSinAlot (Post 16962735)

http://www.verotel.com/price/ticketsclub

Good luck securing affiliates to promote anything with Verotel Ticket Club.

PastorSinAlot

03-21-2010 03:18 PM

I seen a few sites use verortel, but i am going with Zombaio to keep the $750 visa charge in my pocket.

fatfoo

03-21-2010 03:27 PM

Is there a difference? I don't know. You say it's the same thing.

Well, if you can't see the difference, you should probably go with the lower 4% rate.

candyflip

03-21-2010 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PastorSinAlot (Post 16965326)

I seen a few sites use verortel, but i am going with Zombaio to keep the $750 visa charge in my pocket.

I'm sure people are using it. But those people aren't relying on affiliate sales to drive their business.

Klen	03-21-2010 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by candyflip (Post 16965342)

I'm sure people are using it. But those people aren't relying on affiliate sales to drive their business.

Add nats and problem solved with affiliates

webgurl

05-07-2010 01:06 PM

i would like more comments and feedback on this "Zombaio" company so
bumping thread .

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