That is the general gist of it...and it is indeed ludicrous...but understandable since the conservatives want to demonize the current Congress and Administration in the hopes that it will help them to regain power.

hah, i spent the day yesterday at a 420 gathering and a couple peeps there did this very line of thinking.

Come on, a tax payer can take advantage of tax payer funded programs and still be against socialism.

Liberals should stop crying about big business and the church and give up all their income for the greater good and all become atheists.
So be against it. Denounce everything that has right wing leanings.... not just the ones you decide to cherry pick.

Or get over yourselves, shut up, and move the fuck on with your lives.

probably should figure out if the definition of socialism is the same

The opposite... If a socialist believes in the STATE providing everything, then the opposite would be someone who doesn't want a state. I would guess an ANARCHIST?

To me socialism in gov and libertarianism are vastly different in nature - if you have one you must have the other. You could have a major socialist gov and still have mostly libertarian values towards the people as they are the ones in control over the social agendas.

Every successful gov in the world has had social agendas. But the most simple idea of libertarianism has proven to already fail, time and time again - without control, the places rip itself apart and open the door for dictators.

Sorry doc, but I'm going to have to disagree here.... Libertarianism has NEVER been tried. The closest we have come on a large scale, was the earliest days of the USA.... and that has quickly evolved far away from it, but not resulting in dictatorship.

It has never been tried in Europe. All European governments evolved from dictatorships, sometimes called monarchies.

As for people being "involved in social agenda's", there is no room in Libertarianism for people to have the right to tell someone else ANYTHING regarding "social agenda's" without the persons voluntary co-operation. As soon as you legistlate the use of force to control a "social agenda", you go away from actual Libertarianism.


:2 cents:

It's tried in every city, neighborhood, block, group of people in the world, every day, all day... it fails every day, all day.

People aren't just going to leave people alone - even in the most respectable countries people wise. And as soon as you can vote you will have rules that others don't agree with, the entire thing breaks down... it's impossible to have a libertarian system but you can have the values.

A true libertarian world is incompatible with democracy. So even if a majority voted one way, they wouldn't have the right to impose their will on the rest.

well, it doesn't seem then that in the real world librarians are the opposite of socialism eh?

from my view, i am trying to see these peeps that are calling people socialists. who are these guys buying the socialist propaganda?

while it does seems for the sake of arguing, that libertarians are the opposite.

follow the misses.org link I posted :)

thank you for the link, good info.

my question is more specific though-

who are these people?

http://sfcmac.files.wordpress.com/20...ty-picture.jpg

http://anonymouspond.com/wp-content/..._tea_party.jpg

http://www.bythedrop.com/gallery2/d/...-+No+Socialism

http://www.jlcauvin.com/wordpress/wp...aparty-lr1.jpg

http://www.utahstories.com/graphics/tea1.jpg

http://nicedeb.files.wordpress.com/2...-socialist.jpg

did you try it out in your basement?

And for the record neither has pure capitalism. Not that I am a proponent of either.

pure capitalism = laissez-faire capitalism = anarcho-capitalism.

And it has never been tried. The only thing that came close was the Icelandic Free State from 930 to 1262.

Never seen a better post on this forum, looks like you'll offend a lot of these queers.

Are you braindead? The USSR was purely communist.

The idea is great though. How I miss the Austrian School of Economics' influence.

Libertarian is a social aspect of the people.. (yes I know they have a political party, but...). it's not a way you can manage how the gov provides or doesn't provide for the people.

I don't know if people are buying the socialist idea, more than they are to stupid to realize we are already and have been a socialist republic for a long time.

The opposite would be a 3rd world country, no gov/providing.. or maybe a dictatorship.

No. You cannot be against socialism as long as your hand is still in the social cookie jar reaping the benefits.


I've actually done just that. I gave up everything for the greater good. Donated all I had to the vets programs. I am an atheist. I have, and continue to denounce everything right-wing leaning.

People who want to cram the whole world into one word philosophies are being overly simplistic and intellectually lazy. Different social tools work better for different problems. If you want the best television, you need capitalism. If you want the best fire service, you need socialism. Every country experiments with which tools work best for which job, and eventually the optimal balance becomes obvious; America becomes more socialist, China becomes more capitalist. Absolutists who try to turn one tool into a religion always end up defending unrealistic positions to the point of absurdity.

Congrats hope its working out for you. Extreme left sounds like a great place to be. Let us know when you give up your computer for the greater good.

http://mises.org/about/3249

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard-lib.html

:)

I've donated several computers as well over the last ten years. No point in them sitting in a closet collecting dust, and why sell them when I can give them to someone who needs one and is unable to buy one. I donate stuff constantly throughout the year. Food, clothing, furniture, computers, printers, my time, my help.... If that's not 'giving it up to the greater good' then I don't know what is.

I have 13 bags of clothing that's being picked up today for donation.

I also do not claim a tax credit for my donations.

What have you done lately for 'the greater good'?

smarts
bye

a realist person?

Not that long ago I was driving though down town Havana, I passed by thousands of people walking, riding bikes or pushing carts made from various things.. we happened to stop in front of a building. I looked at it and realized that at one time it had been a department store but it was now chained up and empty of anything that would make it so. I then looked a little higher and could see the outline of the letters that had once formed the store name.

Sadly this store would have been able to sell the people on the streets the bikes that they need. The tools to fix them and not have to tie them with rope or rubber.

But that store was taken when Castro took over. He " Spread the Wealth ". I also happened to notice that the people that work in government have nice clothes, Not uniforms like most employees but VERY nice clothes. Armani etc..

The schools are GREAT and no one goes without an education. Medical is great. when they have the tools to treat you. Wonderful thing this socialism

By the way. I was able to read that the store had once been a Sears.

And yet here... the Sears stores remain open so you can get bike parts & tools.
But our education is nearly flat lined, and millions can't afford health care.
So at least we have functioning bicycles to ride while we look for minimum wage jobs because our education system failed us and we can't afford a functioning car.

The Socialist or "socializer" or "socialite" is a very social person, otherwise described as a "people person".

Thus the opposite of socialist would be antisocialist, as in one who is anti-social.

One described as a loner. AKA: hermit.

"Look at that house. Does that guy that lives there ever come out of it? What an anti-socialist. Something's not right with a guy like that. We should round up the neighbors, light some torches and go burn him out."


Class dismissed.

Medicaid and Medicare. sounds like socialized medicine to me.

Pay the teachers the money they deserve and kids will get a better education and turn off the fucking idiot box.

But wait....

Why should I have to pay for teacher's salaries? Why should my tax dollars be used to pay for education? I'm not going to those schools. I don't have kids in those schools.
Isn't that socialism? You expect ME to pay for teacher's salaries so YOUR kids can get a better education?

Fuck that. That's socialism. Every man for himself. The strong will survive and the weak will just fucking lose.

See how retarded that sounds?

Hilarously flawed logic. Thanks for the laugh. While you're at it, why should you have to pay taxes? You don't use most of the government programs(do you?) Fuck them! what you make you should be able to keep. Because that's the same thing as socialism!!(rofl)

Indeed. It IS flawed logic. That's the point.
The very same flawed logic used by right-wing nutballs when they bitch & moan about passing an affordable healthcare bill WHILE they collect Social Security & Medicare benefits.

So why do I have to pay in to SS & Medicare? I'm not getting EITHER one of those. Probably some old bag with a bad hip in Ohio somewhere is reaping the rewards of MY hard work & money. I don't want to hear her whining about "socialism" when she (or anyone else) is actively reaping the benefits of the work of others.

I think Amp supports socialist ideas being that we use them every day, his comment sounded a bit sarcastic.

However with his comment, I do agree that if I have no kids or my kids are done with school, I don't feel it's right to keep paying taxes on it when I'm not using it. Charter schools which are the #1 ranked schools in America - prove you don't need 2x the money per student and a life time of taxes to create a great education for everyone.

Ahh see, I typed to slow...

I support some kind of help to the poor which is why I'm fine with medicare. I support the elderly because they spent their lives working their asses off mostly, and you'll be getting the same benefits when you're old, if you have a real job. Adding a health care bill that nobody understands+another trillion dollars, is pure overkill. There's no hypocrisy or double standards here, just you ranting on about the right.

News flash...Medicare is for the aged and disabled that has paid into SS.

The people holding those signs dont rely on their own brains to define it. Thats the problem. Thats why the opposite of socialist is maverick.

Sorry, but I do see it as hypocrisy and double-standard.
If you don't understand the bill, try reading.
You say you support help for the poor, well who do you think the people are that can't afford health insurance? Clue: It ain't the rich people.
Only the elderly deserve socialized medical treatment?

And when the poor have no insurance, can't pay, or go to a "free" clinic, who do you think is paying for that anyway? Clue: it ain't the non-tax paying, non-premium paying poor people. It's the rest of us.

And since we are already paying for it, why not attempt to eliminate all the red-tape & headaches and hoop-jumping and at least make an effort to give everyone a shot at reasonably priced basic human health care, and maybe even fix the ridiculously fucked up insurance system and the madness that is health care cost. 2 Tylenols at the hospital should NEVER cost $1200, but they do.

Yeah, I'm ranting on a bit about the right. But who are the ones with the damaged brain stems that can't see past themselves for two seconds to acknowledge simple logic, because of some unjustified leftover fear propaganda from the "He's a commie!"" era. Clue: It ain't the left.

Overkill?

Overkill to me is funneling trillions of dollars into mortgage companies and Wall Street, bailing out giant corporations that deserve to fail for their mistakes, while Joe "The Idiot" Plumber and everyone else is losing their homes & jobs, STILL.

Allowing people the opportunity to NOT die from pneumonia because they can't afford the "price" of living, is never overkill.

Word to your mother.

:2 cents:

GRRR I meant medicaid.