I agree. I'm 39 and when I was a kid (up until I was out of high school) there was no cable TV where I lived. So you got about 4 channels that had good reception and a couple others that came in half assed. Now the average cable package seems to have about 100+ channels in it.

Hell, when I was a kid cartoons were on for about 4 hours saturday morning. Now there are at least 5 channels that are nothing but kids programing.

google it moron.

Here is the article I had read about declining TV viewership

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/busines...RJKLr913qZq2HK


They were hoping for this to be a season blip, especially with the 18-49 demographic which has lost 5.1% of its audience.

Exactly. Not to mention people have posted graphs on GFY in previous discussions on this very topic. If someone was that interested, they could do a few simple searches.

One a side note, I am going to share a story as it relates to what others have mirrored in their own porn searches based on my experience. A bit off topic, but still relevant to this discussion on porn buyers.

Before there was online porn, I would have to go to the porn shop. I would look through endless box covers and mag looking for just the right thing to hit the spot. I would have to rent sometimes 2-3 movies in the hope there would be something that would be the money shot for what I care for.

When the internet came along, I had many more choices to pick from. The variety was amazing, and not only did I have the existing movies that were out there to choose from. I also have the independent producers who were more in touch with what TRUE foot lovers wanted. They catered more to the foot fetish audience, and better tailored endless money shots in their clips. So you could go to a foot fetish TGP and it would be pure gold to find foot fetish stuff. If everything feet got you off, you were all set.

Over time, you fine tune what you like. Not just 'everything' gets you off anymore. You start having some sort of list of things that you like, and prefer. So your fetish, or preference becomes fine tuned. Clips4Sale comes on the scene, and you get even more producers who truly understand the fetish, and have it literally DIALED IN pure gold in almost every scene so you pop your top and are willing to pay for it.

While I could go on, the point is simple. For my own porn tastes, I go to maybe a half dozen sites and producers who cater to exactly what I like and want. I am a part of that 25-55 buying male demographic with credit cards, who will still buy porn. I am not a teenager who gets off any time the wind blows and just needs a naked chick.

The demographic has aged. They want more tailored content, and have flooded to places like Clips4Sale to get it. They now only need a handful of studios, or producers, or sites to get off. They no longer need to search hundreds of sites to find it.

Those who are buying, know where to get it. They do not need to search for it

My guess is that people that spend less time on porn sites buy better than ones that know all the tgps and tubes and know where can they find shit of their interest for free...

Agreed. If they have less time to waste they might be more likely to buy

We will always have people dedicated to buying porn, on any medium that has it available to them.

The WWW Internet porn traffic bubble has gotten smaller though. It can be seen in the number of Affiliates available to us today. Less Affiliates because of 2257, 1000's of micro affiliates gone that were the true backbone of our Industry, creating far less global reach, less global exposure, less trades, less traffic moving around, less of everything. Yet porn production exploded at the worst time almost.

It's no possible way we have more traffic today in porn than we did 10 years ago - it wasn't about those affiliates having sites either - it was about the reach they provided - which created extreme amounts of fresh traffic for our Industry, traffic that is totally gone today - like email. Now we're stuck with a shit ton of sites, and far less people to go around.

Based on history, porn will change mediums... based on what the future is showing, the Mobile Internet will take over the WWW Internet within a few years. It's buying power is already more powerful. Medium changes in porn take roughly 10 years, and in 10 years the porn Internet as we know it today will look like the mainstream studio business.

The social Internet isn't new, it's the oldest aspect of the Internet that people have used. It's the BBS and IRC chat rooms and groups and all that shit all moved up in scale, far more advanced, and moving all mediums as well - smartphones for example. It's what drives online games, the xbox, and smartphones, it's the entire damn reason people come on the Internet.

The Internet is moving to instant gratification that gratifies faster than porn does... email is to slow for them. People can get 'fixes' for what they need in other ways, and that's what the Social Internet (or games) do for people. It's no different than a drug or porn.

The online social aspects of people has changed the entire buying and surfing minds of the mass majority of people online. It's only going to get worse or better, depending on what you're doing. Following the technology for the next 20-40 years will be easy, just follow the social movements of people jumping to the mediums, be the person that provides the porn on that medium and you're set.

To me it can't be denied... it's happening to everyone all over the entire WWW Internet, it has happened to porn before - but that doesn't mean porn is dead, it just moving.

$620.00 on 7/11 Sunday....
http://www.iseekgirls.com/temp/sunday-stats.jpg

I don't under stand why you people are not getting this. You keep going back to the " well they spend more time on facebook, youtube now" soo...... so the fuck what. We don't need them to spend 100% of their time online, on porn sites.

Think about it. People spend more time online now then they did in the past. How about this as an example. Let's say people spent 2 hours online back in 2000. 75% of their time then was looking at porn. So that is what, 1.5 hours porn, .5 something else. Now people are spending 6 hours online everyday, 1.5 porn .5 something else 4 social network sites. We still have them spending the same amount of time now as they did back then even if they are spending 4 hours on social networking site. The fact of the matter is, people spend more time online, period. Hence, they spend less watching tv, working out, playing outside, working, going to class, sleeping, whatever.

please tell me how the above is wrong???

It's like you people see, omg they spending 3-4 hours a day on social networking sites, well fuck that is why sales are down. NO!!!! the problem is not how much time they are spending on social networking sites the problem is how much of their porn time is being spent on sites like youporn and not yoursite!

Ok then everyone is lieing ??? I'm asking. Every rebuttal to what I am saying has consisted of "stats" "articles" blah blah blah. I'll be the first one to admit, my logic is based on what I perceive to be common sense, my own experiences, and knowledge I have gained over the years.... weighing heavy on the common sense for this particular issue. Everyone else seems to be basing it on these articles and stats that don't seem to exist.

Sales are down not traffic. There are less affiliates because there are less sales being made and profit margins have shrunk for pretty much everyone over the last 10 years. I use to operate at a 85% profit margin, now I am closer to 50%. Mainly due to poor conversions, which is directly due to less people buying porn and just surfing it but mainly less people being able to buy because of no room on their credit card.

WOW :warning:upsidedow

I think there is no doubt we have more porn traffic now then we did 10 years ago. What was the top 10 porn sites producing hits wise 10 years ago? Look at what the top 10 porn sites are doing now with hits. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if the top 10 porn sites now generate more hits a day then all of the porn sites did back in 2000.

I'll just do USA, don't want to skew the results with all of the shit country users who came on later.

# of internet users in 2000: 108,096,800
# of internet users in 2009: 259,561,000

So that many more users online now and you think there is less traffic going to porn sites now vs 2000? WOW.

Fiddy will76 has already made up his mind he is right threads.
:pimp

Man, are people clueless.

Comparing the popularity of Facebook to the decline of porn sales is like comparing the popularity of Lady Gaga and the decline of Debbie Gibson. They are in the same market but totally unrelated.

People surf porn for about 20 minutes a day, not hours and hours. As someone said, it's not a zero sum game either. You might as well argue that because Facebook is popular, that's why the weather channel website is losing traffic. It makes no sense.

BTW, show me the mega tube sites that are losing traffic because of Facebook and I will believe you that social networking is taking away from porn surfing time. But you can't, because tube sites are still building traffic despite showing the same videos on every one of them.

If the argument was true, then tube sites would be hurting for traffic as well, and we all know the total opposite to be the reality.

Can we stop this thread now?

While people fine tune what they like not everyone ends up with a micro niche fetish, like feet. For MANY people fine tuning it might be petite college girls, or blondes with big boobs. Which content like that can be found very easy. Your porn site and your personal preference is NOT representative of the majority. Social networking sites might be hurting your sales because people can show their feet on them. But for everyone else, we are ok because there isn't hardcore (or even soft) on social networking sites.

You kill me with the " if people really cared to search then they can find graphs easy on here" if it is that easy then it would be less time for you to grab the shit and post it then it would be for you to keep saying that. Typically when people say do the search, its because its not on here, or they can't find it themselves. :2 cents:

Only when people drop the "blame everything else - we need to make excuses" mentality and they wise up.

Only undisputable causes of a drop in porn sales IMO is lack of funds on credit cards and sites like youporn eating up millions and millions of potential customers a day who get to see it all for free. Side notes: tube sites don't hurt cam and dating sales. I do think social networking sites can affect dating.

We started dropping Affiliates before sales started to fall...


Sweet, we had an growth of the people on the Internet... isn't odd that we more than doubled in people but we didn't more than double in sales, anywhere online?

I'm happy that China and some other populated 3rd world Countries got online... but they aren't really a subject worth talking about.

What I saw years ago was 1000's of sites with a great deal more traffic than today, by astounding amounts more... sharing across the entire Industry - even paysites. Lots of people profiting from that global flow of traffic produced by a larger base of Affiliates.

Today what you have is a bottle neck, a few major sites bottled up the traffic and don't share it making it appear like they have some special amount when in reality it's just not spread out.

And then add in the loss of affiliates our global reach has shrunk.

Found this interesting piece cached in Google. the standard link redirects so I'm just going to paste it... interesting read.


Voyeurism.

Although the term ?voyeurism? is usually related directly to sexual interest, these days we use this particular term to define other behaviors as well. Here is the definition of Voyeurism according to Wikipedia,

In clinical psychology, voyeurism is the sexual interest in or practice of spying on people engaged in intimate behaviors, such as undressing, sexual activity, or other activity usually considered to be of a private nature. In popular imagination the term is used in a more general sense to refer to someone who habitually observes others without their knowledge, and there is no necessary implication of any sexual interest.

So all of you getting all excited and defensive cause of the word ?voyeurism? can relax.
The ever growing social networking platforms have given us an opportunity to connect with friends and families. However, many of us use it not just for that purpose but to keep tab on people just to see what they are up to. For example, Bill Gates ended up joining Twitter today and within hours he has well over 100,000 followers. Of course, he is Bill Gates but thousands are following him for one reason and one reason only, to see what he is going to tweet next, to know what?s going to come out on his stream next. You bet, it?s an act of voyeurism.

Another example is that of Ashton Kutcher showing his wife Demi Moore in her underwear. Ohh yeah, thousands of you clicked it and so did I. Now tell me that?s not an act of voyeurism. You bet your ass it is.

I wanted to point this mostly untouched aspect of social networking because social networking activities has now surpassed the porn activity on the web. Yup, it?s true. People watch porn to satisfy their sexual desires. Some want full blown action and some want to tickle their fantasy with bits and pieces. Social Networking gives you way more than porn if you fall under the ?tickle my fantasy bit by bit? category. Whether through profile images, their updates and tweets, we are constantly engaging in an act of voyeurism and often we don?t realize that. That?s one of the reason why porn is being pushed down by social networking cause it fulfills people?s fantasy in just many ways rather than simply through sensual images and videos. Words and not knowing what might come next can have quite an impact on someone?s fantasy and social networking has all the element for that.

We as humans have a common tendency of peeking into other people?s lives. Whether it?s peeking into someone?s window who forgot to close their curtain or following someone on Facebook or Twitter. It fulfills our desire and curiosity. And often we find one of those things that just makes our world go merry round, whether it?s in the form of tweets, Facebook updates, twitpic uploads or whatever it is.

Yes, the reason we are on board the social bandwagon is to connect but don?t tell me you connect with every single one of them on these platforms. There are quite a few we have chosen to connect just so we can keep tab on them. Are you one of those tech guys? I am sure you are following every move Robert Scoble makes. Are you a someone who wants to know what the social media rockstar is upto next? I am sure you are keeping tab on Chris Brogan. See what I mean?

It?s simple. Of course, you knew what you were doing but if you ever wondered how social networking can drag porn activity down, remember it?s because we are all voyeurs.
Share your thoughts. Feel like throwing rocks if you don?t agree? Grab some and throw it at your screen, I am sure it will hurt me.

How in the hell are you quantifying that??? i don't believe that, and there is no way in hell that you have any amount of stats (globally) to even hint at that.

come on... please read what i wrote The stats I posted were US stats only, not China. I am not disputing that sales are down. Don't you remember your argument you made about 20 minutes ago. YOU SAID TRAFFIC IS LESS NOW THAN IT WAS BACK IN 2000. I provided you with stats to show you that is not remotely possible. Now you say, well sales are down. No shit, I said that too. And it's not odd sales are down. Sales are down because a LOT of people don't want to buy now because they get it for free. And of the people who do want to buy a lot of them can't now. Not many people had credit card issues back in 2000 with limits, now every other person has a credit card maxed with none left to use. TRAFFIC IS NOT DOWN. SALES ARE. SOCIAL NETWORKING SITES ARE NOT STEALING TRAFFIC OR SALES, THEY ARE A NON FACTOR.


I feel there are still 1000's of sites getting traffic now like they did back in 2000. BUt you also have 1000x more sites than you had back in 2000. So of course some of them will suck because we are splitting up the traffic over more med to small sites. I do agree the top 10 sites have a decent % of the market, but there is still more traffic left out there now than there was 10 years ago for everyone else. It is just split up a little more now because of a lot more sites now.

WTF global reach, one minute you pissing on china and 3rd world countries now you talking about us not having global reach anymore :1orglaugh what the hell? :upsidedow

so now people are jerking off less because they are spying on someone's twitter account or watching what they wrote on their wall with out the other people knowing they are watching?
People jerk off to what one of the girls in their network might say next?
Everything is has been responded to several times by me in the last couple posts. I'm out. I need to go hang a sign on my sites " close - out of business. People stopped jerking off because they were too busy spending all of their time on facebook".

The fact that you people believe facebook is hurting porn, that you really buy into it is the proof that you will never make it through this. If you really believe that you already dug yourself a hole so deep with that mentality it is like you already have the excuses laid out to justify to yourself why you not making good money any more. Seriously, just get out now, because at the rate that time on facebook is going up, with in 2 years people will be spending 26 hours a day on it then there will be no time left for porn :1orglaugh:upsidedow:1orglaugh:upsidedow peace! When you go to sell off your shit drop me a email I might buy some stuff from you.

Whoa there my friend. you asked a question about Social Networking affecting porn. I simply posted something written by a blogger that I found. I thought this guys point of view was intriguing and added something to the discussion. Never said it was my opinion and I'm not quite sure why you are attacking me for posting this?

I was simply trying to add to the discussion other than traffic is up.. traffic is down...sales are up..sales are down .. tubes killed the industry.

Here is the link to the author of the post

Because you did not agree with him.
:2 cents:

Because even with Obama in office there are still only 24 hours in the day.

I blame Obama for my worst stats ever on Sunday 7/11 !!!

Now if you are asking me why I think sales are down ( and they are ) I would say .. in no particular order:

a. Too much free porn in general
b. Tubes
c. Nefarious billing practices
d. Torrents and the like
e. Credit crunch and the economy
f. Lazy affiliates
g. Traffic is splintered ( it?s not where it used to be )
h. This industry works against each other rather than with each other
i. Lazy program owners ( we aren?t giving the surfer what he/ she wants )

a. There has always been an amazing amount of free porn ever since TheHun
b. Tube are just the new MGP
c. Shit has been happen since the beginning.
d. Torrents is the new Usenet
e. The credit crunch is the standard, most Americans live in debt their entire lives, nothing new here.
f. Lazy affiliates...speak for yourself.
g. Traffic is always there, you just have to work hard and smart to gather it.
h. Actually, the online adult business goes over the top to be legit and do right. Try going mainstream or get a regular day job to see the scum your are dealing with.
i. Lazy program owners get purged out eventually and usually get out of the biz.


Move on ..... go make some fucking sales!

No, they are just saying what they "think" and parroting what they read from other people's theories of what is happening.

Fucking common sense and experience tell me (and you too) that a MAN in his 30's and up isn't going to be spending any time on fucking Face Book or any other "social network". That's about as likely as every guy in the country suddenly yearning to see the latest "chick flick" at the theater. They might go on there to check their messages and surf for a few minutes at the most.

That is one part of the common sense equation. Simple human behavior.

The other part is...we CAN'T SELL SOMETHING THAT IS ALREADY FREE FOR EVERYONE.

Which leads to the statistics that DO exist: Just look at the traffic numbers of Pornhub, RedTube, YouPorn, etc. and you will see that each of them have traffic levels neither we, The Hun, nor World Sex put together EVER had.

More people than ever in history are jerking off to porn online.

Only problem is...it's all free.

And for you guys on here who really believe that MEN are spending "hours" on facebook...I suggest you all go get some fucking testosterone shots, go to the gym, participate in sports, get some pussy, and start being MEN again. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh Bunch of fucking teen girls is what they sound like.

Because I owned a major affiliate and smaller programs and worked with others. I had a program during 2257 as well and directly witnessed what happened. Affiliates bailed on the Industry, some unknown amount of small time mom/pop webmasters packed up and went home. Every single time news came out about it, it was a hit to our Industry. Before tubes, during the time when you could open a new Paysite and get 50-100 sales before you posted on the forums. All this happened in the last decade and it took it's killer death dive right when 2257 came out, and each time it hit the news it started the cycle again.... affiliates left our industry and new ones didn't replace them.

No way I could ever replace the volume affiliates produced... It's not possible.

I said the adult bubble was smaller.... and the adult bubble has less traffic today than it did 10 years ago. I didn't say the Internet, you did.

Anyway, U.S. traffic... that would prove the point even more. If you doubled our traffic online in 10 years, our credit card holders basically - it would mean our traffic would double which no proof of that ever happening and if it did happen, it would mean double the sales. Now if it didn't do that, those people are still some place, doing something. It doesn't mean they're surfing porn, or even a social sites directly - but more social interaction.. some people can only send emails, that's social interaction.

But the majority of people are doing a lot of stuff they couldn't do 10 years ago... a lot more to do really, and a lot of it has to do with social interaction.

http://www.pewinternet.org/Static-Pa...tes-Total.aspx


Overall we have more traffic 'we could reach' but that doesn't mean we are reaching it. That's the point of the affiliate loss. Our global reach, it's like.. our reach into spam, paysite exit trades, more search engines and more into them, more languages, more affiliates is more world wide hosting, more reach through local markets... it's why without affiliates it's impossible to have the traffic reach, even if the Internet has the traffic waiting for us to get.

Clearly a global reach wouldn't include areas you couldn't bill for unless you have a plan for them in the future, that could be a Country like China, a Piracy source online or just some traffic thing you find that totally sucks. Not really anything to be confused about.

Could somebody please bring me a fruit flavored wine cooler while I slip into a pink tutu and spend hours and hours on a "social network"? :1orglaugh

There is a large combination of things that is hitting our industry right now. It's the perfect storm.

First, we are in a recession. I live in a nice area, and more than half of the twenty houses on my street are empty. I've said this over and over again: I can count a dozen restaurants in a two mile radius of my house that have closed up shop. People aren't spending money, and it's affecting all industries.

Then factor in the following:
- Credit cards. Our industry is mostly a credit card based industry. The people who tend to use our products are the ones most likely to be doing it on credit, and they are the exact people who are having the most problems getting (and keeping) their credit cards.
- Search engines. Why pay to join a lesbian website when you can do a google picture search for "lesbians fucking lesbians" and get ten thousand of our images for free? Not to mention video searches as well.
- The Internet is now interesting. For those of us were who online in 1995 or even 2000, the Internet was a pretty fucking boring place. Websites didn't entertain us. The was no flash, no video, no games. No social networking. Maybe Ebay - which was popular in a big way back then because there wasn't much else. Now that's changed. It started with Classmates.com and has rolled into lots of other things. There are blogs we can read for days, we can stream entire full length movies, video chat with our friends and families in other countries - not to mention hours lost on Youtube and Facebook.
- Free porn. Some of us remember when there was a movement to limit TGPs. Tubes? Your worried about tubes? You should be much more concerned about Google Picture search displaying every photo of Alison Angel ever taken. (How many of you are profiting off of that, btw?) Then Tubes are just the icing on the cake.

Everyone is saying "porn is dead". Fuck you! We've been hit with the worst recession we'll see in our lifetime, businesses are going under left and right, and yet everyone thinks porn is dead? What about the restaurant market, with their restaurants sliding under left and right - Wendy's, Chilli's, Red Robin, Sonic, and a bunch of others. Clearly, the "restaurant business" is "dead" and will never recover.

I'm not sure about all of you but I'm having the most profitable month ever. I was down last month by about ten percent, but this month period to period is way up and if this continues I'll be doing fine.

In fact, I'm launching another blog tonight so I need to go.

Hey Jim, not that I compared Facebook myself... but I would like to address what you said.

People do surf porn for short periods of time, for sure during 'that time,' which is when it counts for us.

Popularity wise though, Facebook users are spending equal amount of time using it, as they do Google. That's pure crazy, scary even because Google actually feeds us traffic and Facebook doesn't really. Not saying it takes it away, but it sure isn't giving back - and that's not good.

Kinda like the piracy tubes do, they bottle neck it - it doesn't go to the Industry and it sucks they pirate us but if they shared that traffic with our Industry, freely.... we would bitch a lot less, we would be part of the team again.

Hello...... you're on one now! Can I see a picture of that pink tutu now? :thumbsup

Not attacking you, missed that it wasn't your own thoughts. It is an interesting view point, just not one I agree with. The first couple questions were me to you, the entire second paragraph was to anyone who believes facebook is hurting their porn sales. I've be extra nice to footsie and he still gets his skin ruffled. Can't win with some people.

sorry guys I really have work to do. I will try to reply back tomorrow, although I think i am past the point of having repeated myself a few times anyway.

I was hoping to be proven wrong but so far I still feel the same way I always have. I can give a shit who is right, actually if you believe facebook hurts your sales, that actually gives me an advantage over you to make more money. I tried to help, apparently a lot of us are set in their believes. Although it must be depressing for you people who believe facebook hurts your porn sales, because at the current trend of people spending more and more time on social networking sites, its only going to get worst for you. at this rate they will be on facebook 24/7 with in a couple years.

To add some salt in to this thread....

All that traffic is from the blog-o-sphere.

Great discussion and subject too... really the perfect storm probably does explain today better than anything. Off to grab cheap Mexican food.

Sweet Jesus...poor Kristin will be facing a different kind of "perfect storm" in a couple of hours. :1orglaugh

It's not only the number of internet users have dramatically increased but also the demographic. There are a lot more female internet users watching porn as well.

I for one do not think so...at least not in any significant way. I do think that the availability of free porn is a very significant factor. I do not understand why anyone would pay for porn as any and all niches are available in any and all quality...quantity and duration.

There is my thought as well. Alot of porn sales are impulse buys purchased during times of boredom.

It would be great to have some metrics on this issue, its impossible to say who is correct.