Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17358155)

I didn't say I supported illegal immigration. I just find it incredibly humorous that people attach all this stuff to illegals, and have nothing to say about the rest of the people that do the exact same things. :)

Originally Posted by jimmy-3-way (Post 17358165)

What's the secret to telling regular Mexicans from illegals?

Originally Posted by Smokieflame (Post 17358183)

Legal immigrants from any nation are required to speak english at a 3rd grade level and understand US history at a 4th grade level. Pretty easy to spot the illegals with these very simple tactics.

Originally Posted by Smokieflame (Post 17358176)

I agree with this comment yet I disagree with it. Look at it like this, if we have to deal with black, or white gangs and/or criminals it is an american problem. We do have alot of these problems, so why do we want to add Illegals into this already over loaded problem??

Like it or not our southern boarder has a war going on. Neither the Mexican government or our Federal government will do shit about it. Our working class citizens are being killed, kidnapped, robbed, raped, and terrorized. Whats funny is we wont tolerate this from people who live on the other side of the world yet we should tolerate it at our back door?

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17358197)

So we've switched now from "they suck the economic resources" to "they are bad neighbors" to "the Border War" that has nothing to do with some guy living in Phoenix or Virginia. Okay.

We can't stop gangs in our own cities. We certainly can't secure the border for real with what we've got down there. Although that's sort of moot since the AZ law in question has nothing to do with securing the border in any capacity. It only covers rounding up the evil brown workers.

Originally Posted by d-null (Post 17358229)

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17358197)

So we've switched now from "they suck the economic resources" to "they are bad neighbors" to "the Border War" that has nothing to do with some guy living in Phoenix or Virginia. Okay.

We can't stop gangs in our own cities. We certainly can't secure the border for real with what we've got down there. Although that's sort of moot since the AZ law in question has nothing to do with securing the border in any capacity. It only covers rounding up the evil brown workers.

Originally Posted by PR_Tom (Post 17358234)

I think a lot of the automatic rejection from even prominent people nationally is based on fears of how they think it could play out if the cops intentions are corrupt. So thats a separate issue. Cops could tase a woman 12 times after she called them frightened that a prowler might be outside. So of course bad cops could fuck anything up royally.

I think it needs to play out, and Arizona will change with the will of it's people, if the people so decide.

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17358143)

Well there ya go. It took a few hours today, but I learned something new. I wasn't aware Virginia was a hotbed of illegal immigrant activity.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla (Post 17358248)

If we ran a 3 fence system with surveillance and border patrol stepping up operations, yes we can.
Then have military exercises along the border

Originally Posted by PR_Tom (Post 17358234)

I think a lot of the automatic rejection from even prominent people nationally is based on fears of how they think it could play out if the cops intentions are corrupt. So thats a separate issue. Cops could tase a woman 12 times after she called them frightened that a prowler might be outside. So of course bad cops could fuck anything up royally.

I think it needs to play out, and Arizona will change with the will of it's people, if the people so decide.

Originally Posted by jimmy-3-way (Post 17358186)

What about those crafty ones that can speak English but don't like to?

All the cooks at my local taco shop speak nothing but Spanish - do you think they are illegal? I wonder if I should report them.

But they make SUCH good burritos...

Originally Posted by Smokieflame (Post 17358120)

I live in AZ and this law is not as evil as people seem to think. First off I had to live next door to illegal immigrants who non stop started problems. Every time we called the cops they wouldn't do anything b/c there hands were tied by not being legally able to ask for documents which is bullshit. If you are a US citizen and you are walking down the street without ID you can be arrested, finger printed, and given a $400 ticket. I know from experience. In all other countries if you are visiting on a passport and you do not have your passport when a cop talks to you, you can be charged with a crime and immediately deported out of the country, this goes for Americans just as much as Mexicans. So yes our cops should have the right to ask someone who does not speak English at all for documents. It is in FACT a requirement to speak English at a 3rd grade level to become a citizen, and if you are working on your citizenship the proper way you should have documents.

Maricopa County Sheriffs office has also stated they will be going one step farther, if someone claims to be legal, or pending legal they will not take them directly to jail, they will take them to there home for them to provide proof of legal status.

I personally hope they kick every illegal out of our country. Its a blatant disrespect to all the immigrants that have worked there asses off to become a citizen the right way. Just because Mexico sucks does not mean we should give up our jobs, our resources and our neighborhoods to these people. Illegals are VERY rude people, even the workers. They play there carnival music VERY loud at all hours, they party heavily, 1 in 3 illegal immigrants children join gangs such as MS-13, which is the most violent gang in America and is 80% illegals or children of illegals. It is so bad, that MS-13 is in Elementary schools in wealthier areas!!!

Originally Posted by split_joel (Post 17358255)

I am sorry but your arguments are simply pethedic. The federal goverment has failed to protect our borders it is as simple as that. If you are a legal in this country I do not mind being asked to prove it, honestly it should be like that everywhere. This country is in debt, states are in debt, illegals are a huge part of that debt esp on the state level. AZ law must be passed as legal or this country is over, proving the Federal Gov has everyone one of us chained by our necks.

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17358275)

Our "borders" have never been more protected than they are right now. The circus at the airports are evidence of that. Our surveillance and military are as advanced as ever. We can pick out a flea's ass in full HD from fucking space. We are fully capable of locking down our border with Mexico if so desired.

This AZ law is just racial profiling. It doesn't solve anything. What's to stop them from coming right back over the border? What's to stop them in NM, TX, or CA?

Originally Posted by Smokieflame (Post 17358283)

this is in fact the dumbest thing I have ever heard anyone say.

Originally Posted by Smokieflame (Post 17358283)

this is in fact the dumbest thing I have ever heard anyone say.

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17358275)

Our "borders" have never been more protected than they are right now. The circus at the airports are evidence of that. Our surveillance and military are as advanced as ever. We can pick out a flea's ass in full HD from fucking space. We are fully capable of locking down our border with Mexico if so desired.

This AZ law is just racial profiling. It doesn't solve anything. What's to stop them from coming right back over the border? What's to stop them in NM, TX, or CA?

Originally Posted by Vendzilla (Post 17358297)

It may be more secure, but if they have to put up signs like this, then it's not enough

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17358293)

Step 1. Man crosses US border illegally.
Step 2. Man gets job working in field.
Step 3. Man is hassled by the po-po outside Home Depot one day.
Step 4. Man is arrested & deported to Mexico.
Step 5. Goto Step 1.

How does this law fix this again? Seems to me that it only adds unnecessary tension in the Hispanic community.

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17358293)

Step 1. Man crosses US border illegally.
Step 2. Man gets job working in field.
Step 3. Man is hassled by the po-po outside Home Depot one day.
Step 4. Man is arrested & deported to Mexico.
Step 5. Goto Step 1.

How does this law fix this again? Seems to me that it only adds unnecessary tension in the Hispanic community.

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17358300)

They put up warning signs around prisons too. Are you suggesting there are homicidal escaped prisoners running loose, free & wild across the American countryside?

Originally Posted by Vendzilla (Post 17358297)

It may be more secure, but if they have to put up signs like this, then it's not enough

http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_ht...sa-cartoon.jpg

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17358275)

Our "borders" have never been more protected than they are right now. The circus at the airports are evidence of that. Our surveillance and military are as advanced as ever. We can pick out a flea's ass in full HD from fucking space. We are fully capable of locking down our border with Mexico if so desired.

This AZ law is just racial profiling. It doesn't solve anything. What's to stop them from coming right back over the border? What's to stop them in NM, TX, or CA?

Originally Posted by Vendzilla (Post 17358306)

So you agree that we should treat the border just like prisons and build a fence and patrol it with enough armed guards to keep people on the other side of that fence?

Originally Posted by DateDoc (Post 17358309)

You are finally beginning to understand. You are 100% correct that the US is capable of locking down the border. The problem is, until now, this was left to the federal government which has chosen to look the other way. Arizonans have decided to pass a law so they can protect themselves where the federal government has chosen not too.

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17358315)

And how does this "protect" them from illegals crossing the border? No one has answered this. It doesn't stop illegals coming over the AZ / Mexico border, and does nothing to stop illegals from coming into AZ through CA or NM.

Originally Posted by DateDoc (Post 17358322)

Illegal aliens will always take the path of least resistance. They want to be as unnoticed as possible so they do not end up getting deported. With the new law, how many of them do you think will stay in AZ?

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17358330)

The good, honest ones... the workers... will most likely leave. Many already have. So what Arizona will be left with are the ones that have a vested financial interest in staying. The drug runners, gangs, thieves, killers and other nefarious criminals.

Congratulations. A real step forward there.

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17358315)

And how does this "protect" them from illegals crossing the border? No one has answered this. It doesn't stop illegals coming over the AZ / Mexico border, and does nothing to stop illegals from coming into AZ through CA or NM.

EDIT: I'm not "finally beginning to understand"... lol
I've always understood just fine. People don't always understand me though. ;-)

Originally Posted by Smokieflame (Post 17358355)

And please do remember we arent a fucked up country. If you are cuban and you make it to land you are a refuge and will not be deported, this is b/c cuba is FUCKED up. Mexico isnt fucked up they are just poor and stupid. SO there for there people are not refuges, they are ILLEGAL!!!

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17357938)

You and I both know that in practice on the street, the AZ police will be targeting Hispanics, not white Frenchmen. Don't be ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17358367)

I've realized that the problem most people have with illegals is purely based on race. And I know, a lot of people will get all cyber-"offended' by that, but when you boil it all down to the very essence of the core of nuts & bolts, it's true.

Let's debunk some of the other "reasons".

They make bad neighbors.
So does everyone else.

They use hospital ER care without paying for it!
So do a ton of other people of all flavors.

They use our schools!
You cry about them not speaking English, but don't want them to learn? :eek7 How are they supposed to acquire English, through osmosis? And besides, our public schools are fucking horrible anyway. Is it really a big loss?

They are criminals!
Technically this is true. Hence the term, "illegal immigrant". And if there is anyone here who has never broken a single law in their life, step forward. There are 90-year-old grandmothers breaking laws right now. Breaking one law does not make someone a career criminal. Most illegals simply want a job and a better life, not to be the next Scarface.

They don't pay taxes!
Yes, they do. You just can't see it because you choose not to look.



If you eliminate these big ones, there's not much left except race. :2 cents:

Originally Posted by jimmy-3-way (Post 17358165)

What's the secret to telling regular Mexicans from illegals?

Originally Posted by Smokieflame (Post 17358120)

I live in AZ and this law is not as evil as people seem to think. First off I had to live next door to illegal immigrants who non stop started problems. Every time we called the cops they wouldn't do anything b/c there hands were tied by not being legally able to ask for documents which is bullshit. If you are a US citizen and you are walking down the street without ID you can be arrested, finger printed, and given a $400 ticket. I know from experience. In all other countries if you are visiting on a passport and you do not have your passport when a cop talks to you, you can be charged with a crime and immediately deported out of the country, this goes for Americans just as much as Mexicans. So yes our cops should have the right to ask someone who does not speak English at all for documents. It is in FACT a requirement to speak English at a 3rd grade level to become a citizen, and if you are working on your citizenship the proper way you should have documents.

Maricopa County Sheriffs office has also stated they will be going one step farther, if someone claims to be legal, or pending legal they will not take them directly to jail, they will take them to there home for them to provide proof of legal status.

I personally hope they kick every illegal out of our country. Its a blatant disrespect to all the immigrants that have worked there asses off to become a citizen the right way. Just because Mexico sucks does not mean we should give up our jobs, our resources and our neighborhoods to these people. Illegals are VERY rude people, even the workers. They play there carnival music VERY loud at all hours, they party heavily, 1 in 3 illegal immigrants children join gangs such as MS-13, which is the most violent gang in America and is 80% illegals or children of illegals. It is so bad, that MS-13 is in Elementary schools in wealthier areas!!!

Originally Posted by Smokieflame (Post 17358398)

Basically in your eyes we should just let everyone who wants to be here to come here???

Originally Posted by Smokieflame (Post 17358398)

Do you have children that go to school?

Originally Posted by Smokieflame (Post 17358398)

Do you understand the frontline drain these people in masses are putting on our system??

Originally Posted by Smokieflame (Post 17358398)

Your argument would hold up if there was a small number of illegals, but one major problems there are millions of them!

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 17358414)

Plenty of big ones to go through...

They slow down the medical system, cost it/us money, slow down response times - more than any other group. They create more violence, engage in human and drug trafficking, they take more from the system than they pay in, before counting all the untaxed money that is sent straight out of the Country. The repeat violent criminal stats on illegals is staggering. They do occupy jobs that Americans apply for, they do hire each other and keep Americans out. They cost the schools money with no money put back in for it, it's a total loss. They purchase homes/goods and walk away often taking with them what they can, and no way to track them down. They fraud people through identity theft. They clog up our legal system and prisons, costing us even more money. They don't have car insurance, registration, or a DL - breaking all those laws, causing wrecks and deaths, causing our emergency/police to respond more, then driving away with no way to track them down.

I'm bored now...

Originally Posted by Hawkeye (Post 17358435)

You give police the power to check their immigration status. Just like Arizona is doing.

Any more stupid questions?

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17358461)

Why not simply do like Oakland? Revise policy so that police no longer respond to car wrecks or grand theft or burglary or anything, and require people to report that stuff online. Lots of savings there in resources. One website takes the place of 80 officers.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 17358483)

Because that's why we pay taxes, and we aren't Oakland... why not remove the huge cost problem, so the people can have the protection they paid for?

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17357867)

Again, so if you happen to be Hispanic and out & about without your ID, you run the risk of being arrested & jailed until you can prove you are a citizen. There's no way this will stand as a valid law.