Robbie I think it was the 1999 show but I can't remember the location either. I had a booth there and it was a great show.

I'm not at this show but I was at Internext 2009 and of COURSE it was smaller. Here's just a few reasons why:

- Business sucks
- 5-10 years go commercial porn on the Internet was still new and easy
- Illegal tube sites
- Scams, scams, scams.
- Too-high-to-afford affiliate payouts + Pre-check strangeness + fraud = death of many programs
- Too many shows (Wasn't there 15 shows or more a year at one time?)
- Hotels, Food, Drinks, too expensive.
- Too many websites giving away too much stuff for free.
- People who rip-off Expo's by attending shows but don't buy badges
- Etc, etc, etc...

People shouldn't knock AVN/Internext for decreased attendance. There's alot of work that go into them to make sure that every attendee is happy. If you want proof, look for the show owner and tell me he's not stressed out and running around working his ass off for you. If attendance is down at any show, the problem is not necessary with the show itself. Ease up!

Well, whatever year it was and wherever the actual hotel was :1orglaugh ...We made a shitload of money, got fucked up, got laid, got paid around 20 grand in CASH money that was owed to us for traffic and got a nice tan. :pimp

THAT is the porn business!

Flash forward to now. I go to one of the dozens of shows that are everywhere now. No nudity allowed at the hotels that the show organizers so wisely chose (of course here in Vegas there are SEVERAL casinos on the strip with topless "european" style pools, but they never choose those), no big sponsor parties because there are so many shows that they can't afford to blow it out big like the old days when there was just 2 shows, no show floor for the same reason, no free drinks, no women.

In other words...no reason for the average geeky webmaster/affiliate to WANT to come to the show. No excitement.

We used to really plan BIG for the show. We planned the whole year to go. We'd always bring girls with us. Always make sure we had plenty of cash. Plenty of connections. Lots of party favors. And you could literally go from one party to the next and they were all packed with webmasters.

No parties + TONS of "seminars" + no nudity + no women = No affiliates...they'd rather take their one vacation for the year in the Bahamas or Jamaica. Back then it was all about greasing the affiliate webmasters to get their traffic. And you know what? It worked.

FUCK YOU

Many suggestions on how to fix the show were offer however, they decided it was more about making money then having a successful show.

the difference between then and now is this as i see it

THEN: there was SO much money floating around. Sponsors just THREW money around at shows with massive booths, incredible parties, hookers, strippers drugs, alcohol, gifts ect ect. It wasnt only a business it was one big party. Affiliates could afford to go to shows back then because they were making huge bank as well because there were not as many of them on the net fighting over clicks as there are today. I remember AGA buying Hookers for people in the Red Light in Amsterdam in 2003. there must have been 30 people with us walking thru the district and him handing money to which ever girl u wanted to fuck.

Now: the ROI on sponsor programs is NO WHERE near what it was then. Affiliates are fighting over fewer and fewer clicks, companies are becoming just that Companies looking solely at their bottom line and spending 500K- 1M at a show is not in the interest of the bottom line. Affiliates cant afford to go to shows in masses like the old days because most of them are making a fraction of what an affiliate made as few as 6 years ago.

Times are changing, shows are changing, I dont necessarily see these changes in the biz as a biz dieing. I see this as a necessary shake out in the industry that was way over due. Is it painful? Hell yeah but it needs to be done

:2 cents::2 cents:

Hmm I remember that night. lol I also remember nearly punching some fat ex-pat that tried getting in between me and the girl I was with when we were having an argument. lol

Note to anyone taking girls into the Del Ray do NOT hand out a biz card to any guys or your ass will be put out in the street. lol

yah no other industries ever change. problem with this one is there are too many dumb fucks who were just in the right place at the right time.

why is it sad? because all you dinosaurs missed the loophole in the dmca and didn't see it as a way to get huge and crush your competition?

look around the world hoss, every company that's huge has skirted the law to do it, in many instance anyhow.

stop fucking crying. you look pathetic.

hahaha no shit.

me too.

You fucked the owner so your gf's sister did not have too?
That really is taking one for the team nice work

Robbie you seem to be trying to hang on to your "glory days". Most of the players now have grown up and are no longer in thier 20's and down to live the lifestyle.

As margins get smaller and it actually takes more start up cash to make a dent in this industry. IMO you are going to see alot less handshake "bro" deals being made while getting blowjobs at DirtyDs gloryhole

That's a good point.

I do this for a living because I don't want to be tied to schedules, meetings, quotas, and pretending I'm at a telecom convention. I'm not into drugs, hookers, and heavy partying either, but I do think that those profitable personal relationships develop in casual settings, not meetings.

I would much rather get together with a small group of owners / affiliates for a meeting and dinner than attend a "show"

I rarely saw the same faces more than a few times. A lot of new people and good contacts!

Well said :thumbsup

shows trying to bleed the last few cents out of the industry...

I am in my glory days right now. But the shows aren't. And I'm not living a "lifestyle". I'm just telling you the truth. Back when there were only a couple of shows the sponsors (including us at a few shows) would put all their "show" resources into them.

Now, there is no way for a sponsor to do that. Just too many shows. So they may be spending 50 grand a year to go to shows...but it's spread out amongst a dozen shows instead of just one or two.

I've never been to Dirty D's glory hole. Not my kind of thing. But I've made lots of money casually discussing things with paysite owners with drinks in our hands and getting to know each other.

You seem to be a little bitter with your "grown up" statements. Got some news for you...handshake deals in strip clubs, restaraunts, etc. are and always have been an important part of making money in every business. And it's usually guys my age and older doing it.

You're also missing the point I'm trying to make while you're busy concentrating on "growing up"...
AFFILIATES. As an affiliate I bust my ass. I don't have a lot of time to walk away from my company. There is literally shit to do 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. But even I need a vacation sometimes.

And so do the thousands of affiliates out there who sit in front of a computer everyday bored to death. Yeah, they promote porn. But do they ever get to see it in real life?

No.

The shows USED to provide that. As an affiliate we were treated like gold at shows. Free drinks. Naked girls ON the show floor (but as I said earlier...they now choose hotels based on kickback money instead of what we need, and there is no nudity at those hotels). Lavish sponsor parties.

These were all designed to do one thing...grab the couple of affiliates you might not have yet, and get MORE traffic from the guys who already promoted you but might only run a gallery or two and never gave you a good push.

And THAT was why affiliates once attended shows in great numbers. It was FUN. It was something to break up the monotony of living in front of a computer screen all day. It was a chance to actually meet and talk to the girls you promoted.

Now the shows are boring. I still make money when I go to them. But not at any "official" event. It's always over a drink. Always.

It's already been said to death...there only need to be two shows a year. And those shows need to give affiliates a reason to be there. If they are going to walk away from their work for a vacation once a year, it's going to be the Bahamas or Jamaica or Mexico IF the shows are nothing but seminars and a half dozen booths with billing processors.

If you think I'm wrong...then you need to go to a show and see for yourself. There is absolutely NOTHING to do there.

What the fuck would an affiliate do at a show if he chose to attend one in 2010?

Nothing. He doesn't need to go to a "seminar". He doesn't need to do "speed networking". He doesn't need to listen to some paysite owner give keynote speeches.

What he wants is to put a face to the name he talks to on ICQ. He wants to have some comradarie that he misses out on by working at home by himself. And he wants to have some FUN. \

And back when the shows provided those things...I always went straight home and put up links to the guys that I made friends with and had crazy times with for a few days. I was re-charged and on fire.

Now? When you get back from the show...you feel like you need to go out to a club and have some fun to break up the fact that you just overpaid for your room, drinks, and food for 3 days and you didn't even see one titty.. lol

I know you are disagreeing with me. And in that case I say...Go to the shows and enjoy the 5 or 6 billing companies that are the only companies with a presence there anymore.

Then honestly ask yourself...if you were an affiliate would you want to be there on your "vacation"? Or would you rather be in Cancun?

It will be sad to see this show disapear. If merging it is the only way for it survive, similar to the Vegas show all that is needed aré some Internet only gathering.

Or an Internet only party.

stop wasting your breath robbie. that guys always been a shit talker. he's a troll.

Oh....

I wanted to do something this summer. I COULD have went to Miami to that show.

But instead I flew over to San Diego to Pacific Beach and got a suite with a balcony overlooking the ocean and I spent 4 days there. Had a blast and went to the San Diego Zoo and Sea World for good measure.

Did it all the week before the Miami show.

That's where one of the affiliates was at during the show. I never would have done that back when there were only a couple of shows a year. Never.

But I wanted to do something that I could have some fun doing. And sitting at The Diplomat and overpaying for drinks and food with nothing to do just wasn't gonna cut it.

And obviously I was not alone in that thought. How many affiliates attended do you think?

Well I have to say I am not disappointed but the attendance was a little scary... I pretty much figured that.

I had my meeting set up and really was not there to party.. I think people in this industry are so use to talent being there and tons of party's.

I got what I needed out of the show.. but would have like to see more webmasters. The shows was a little sad.

If this show closing down will FINALLY get you and Score to venture out of Miami for a show....then I'll be happy!

You need to come to Vegas and party with me!

One is tax deductible, one is not.

B.S. I'll find a way to do business on EVERY trip I take. :)

It's called a laptop and doing a bit of work everywhere I'm at. I also take a camera with me and shoot content everywhere I go. So "no" that isn't true. Both places are tax write-offs

And quite frankly...for those that aren't clever enough to make sure it IS a tax write off, I don't think that taxes are on their mind when it comes time to take a couple of grand vacation is it?

While I am sure I am sure to take any tax benefits available (and there are a ton), not every affiliate has the ability to write off taking pics.

You may need to look into some automation :winkwink:

RE: The HDR adventure at the CR Bash - yes, definitely a classic scene and great memory, among many others, for the people involved :thumbsup

RE: Shows and business: Despite the fact some people are in denial, there are a lot of "cliques" in the adult industry and many of those people don't do business with others "outside of their circle" too often. How did those cliques get formed? People partying and hanging out with each other. If you want to do business with those people, your best bet is to do the same.

This doesn't mean you must be a whore-banging, alcoholic drug-user. Many friendships and relationships can also be formed white water rafting, ATVing, visiting an amusement park, attending a small dinner; these are things people remember.

Seminars, meetings, lame parties in venues you can't hear yourself think, etc... are NOT. :2 cents:

No, but they can do lots of other things. Business calls, working on the laptop, etc. etc.
And even when I wasn't shooting content from 2002 to 2007 I still wrote off every trip I took to the Bahamas, Jamaica, and Mexico. I had my laptop and worked every day...even though I was naked on the beach with a drink in my hand while working. :1orglaugh

I do have a lot of shit "automated" in that I can cue up galleries to run on my tgp's, write blogs ahead of time of course and have them scheduled to go up, have tube clips scheduled to go up...

BUT I can't automate the hands on operations here. No way. I'm on the phone every day with my programmer working on stuff. Running 4 tgps, a tube, a paysite, a program, doing support, CM's cam shows, social networks, public appearances for CM, shooting content, editing content, working on new music and music videos, etc.

I'm like James Brown...the hardest working man in show biz!

I like shows. It get's me to nice places, meet interesting people, do business, have nice dinners, enjoy and learn/grow at the same time.

Me too. I guess all starts from oneself being openminded and not the prejudice or too high expectation levels, wether compared to past experiences or not.

And your accountant was okay with this? Seems a little over the top, particularly because you can make business calls and work on your laptop "anywhere", there really is no need to be in any of those locations to do so.

I've been told you can justify a "business trip" somewhat easily (look at real estate, possible business buyouts, etc.), your method just seems to be pushing it.

Back when exactly are you talking about?

Exactly. All other things being equal, I'll do business with a friend whom I've had good times with over a faceless voice on the phone or text on an icq everytime.

P.S.: But the whore banging, alcoholic, drug-user part ain't bad either :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

EDIT: ONE FIDDY BILLING PROCESSOR GET TOGETHERS KNOWN AS "SHOWS"

Yep, everything passed with flying colors. The very nature of our business makes it possible to do a lot of things. Not only did I work in different locations, but I was there researching marketing for those different areas. :)

only an audit will tell you. Even then its subjective. Depend who actually does the audit and if he is in a good mood that day

I was going to industry shows from the mid 1990's to 2002. In 2002 I sold my content company. And the shows started getting lame because there were too many of them and the sponsors weren't going all out for us affiliates anymore.

I had so much traffic back then that we actually had the sponsors flying into South Carolina (where we had our offices) to see us. lol

So I stopped going from 2002 up until I opened up Claudia-Marie.Com That's when I figured I had a reason to go to the shows again to promote her site.

I was SHOCKED when I saw how small the shows were in 2007 compared to what they used to be.

And now? 2007 shows look GIANT compared to what's left now.

In my humble opinion...One show a year in a locale that kicks ass with all the sponsors involved would indeed bring back affiliates to shows.

But that ain't gonna happen so it's just wishful thinking.

Businesses send marketing people to different areas all the time to research the market in different locales. I needed to research some different areas to find out how to market to them correctly. :)

Woah, relax man.. I have no idea how much it costs to put on an expo but I'm willing to bet that you have no clue either, so maybe you should ease up a little.

I know of at least one expo organizer who had to put up his house as collateral just to guarantee the rooms to a Hotel a few years ago. Talk about dedication...

And so what if the shows want to make money? GOOD! Why do any kind of business if its not to make money?

I have been to at least 15 shows and never for a second did I think that ANY show was CHEAP, or that my comfort and business deal potential wasn't paramount to the organizers. This is especially true of Internext, Qwebec Expo, Cybernet, and even Webmaster Access back in the day. Like I said in another thread, find the organizer(s) of the next show you attend. Follow them around for 30 seconds and tell me that they're not a walking stress case due to all the work, lack of sleep, and tons of worry they take on to their shoulders, just so YOU can have a place to do business.

That is obviously true for smaller shows, not put on by huge companies, such as Qwebec and Cybernet.

However, do you honestly tell me you see Paul Fishbein running around Internext like a chicken without a head? No, who you see doing that are employees /show organizers who are being paid to do that job.

For example, I know Sherri spends a good part of her year organizing CCBill's show, The Phoenix Forum and does it right; you never see her running around (maybe a little) but you damn sure don't see RonC running around freaking out about his show :winkwink:

and i will never forget how Rons parents (RIP) went around in the courtyard and asked almost every participant - no matter if small or big fish - about their opinion on the show. the difference is simply that a show like the Phoenix Forum gives me the feeling to be welcome and the internext gives me the feeling to be just a cashcow. and i can also tell from my experince in dealing with both organizers regarding advertising etc.

if the AVN shows are dying its pure and simple their own fault.

Very true!

I think it's kinda petty that AVN itself doesn't set up a simple free lunch each day for webmasters.
Or at least ONE thing at the show that they are profiting on to give back.

But they don't sponsor anything. If they can't get a program to pay for it, it don't happen.

But they would be surprised. If AVN did a free lunch for webmasters each day...those cheap hot dogs and chicken wings could do wonders for the way they are viewed. :)

I was dissapointed about the size of the show, overall the show was good and I met the people I wanted to meet.

If everyone spend the same energy on rethinking their business as they do on hating other peoples business this business would be booming.

It's not just adapt or die it's innovate or die.

The industry is changing, like always and it's still profitable, sometimes you just gotta work a bit now :-D