Self portraits will be graded

any of those other countries would have gone after Osama for us

Yes, I things we should

That's the perks of owning Congress. You know damn well the GOP would do things the same way if they controlled it.

Okay.... let me try again.

Once we started bombing Afghan, let's just suppose for a second that we had gotten solid intel that said BL ran off into India. That's a realistic hypothetical that could have conceivably happened.

Then what? Continue bombing Afghan or move the bombing to India?

Doesn't make it right
But thats not what happened, what if's is not what we are discussing here

You're absolutely right.

So we've been at war with a country that did nothing to us, for nine years, looking for one man. At what point to we bag & tag this and call it what it is: A complete fucking failure.

And we are in complete agreement on that, like I said earlier, occupation is something we should have never got into.
This is not something we can win, USSR tried it and they didn't have to play nice, so forgive me for getting pissy when Barry sends more troops there

Barry didn't put us there. GW did. I know you love blaming Barry for everything, but Georgie Porjie owns this mess. It was a bad idea from the beginning, and it's still a bad idea.

If Barry is sending more troops there, there's probably a reason.... you know, like replacing the dead ones.

I didn't blame Barry for attacking afghanistan, I blamed Barry for sending more troops and you know as well as I do that what ever reason he says is more than likely a lie, just like all politicians.

Again, Occupation is a bad thing

Barry has been the president for what, 20 months? The mess is his now

Fine & good. And I know now that you don't like dealing with 'if'... but try to look to possible futures for a moment. (much more relevant than looking backward). Let's suppose the plans are altered yet again and we aren't out of Afghan as planned. And let's go crazy and suppose the GOP puts their man back in the WH in '12. Is it then the GOP's mess again? Or will you continue to blame Barry?

Okay, you feel we should be out of Afghan... I get that, and I somewhat do agree but I do think we need some special operations to go down first.

However... This is what is confusing to me. You're okay with us attacking Japan because they attacked us, you're okay with attacking Nam because they didn't like us and we're going commie. But you're not okay with going after the guy/people that did attack us on our own soil, simply because we're in Afghan? Even though we're now not at war with Afghan...

I get Iraq.. without question and I get not 'attacking' Afghan and killing its people and at the same time I get some of the people are those attacking us. But with that, those people isn't who we're actually looking for, they aren't who attacked America.

Yes, saving some cash would be great... but that is nothing compared to saving American lives from future attacks from people that have proven they will attack us.

At what point in the Soetoro Administration do they actually take responsibility and be held accountable for the changes and additions they have made to the Afghanistan war?

I'm just curious because Barry has been a supporter of the Afghanistan war from the beginning and campaigned for it during the presidential elections. He has the option to pull out of Afghanistan and bring the troops home the past 18 months but instead he has sent more troops, more assets and spent more money on the effort.

He has had no problem pulling the trigger on the draw down of troops and assets in Iraq in which people like you give him credit for (Also a Bush Mess, Right?) but yet in expanding the war in Afghanistan it all reverts back to Bush and the Soetoro Administration doesn't take any responsibility or held accountable.

Overall its not adding up for the Afghanistan death tool either, Coalition Military Fatalities are also up under the Soetoro Administration.

From 01-08 under Bush we lost 630 troops in Afghanistan.

From the past 18 months under Barry we have lost 595 troops in Afghanistan and we still have 4 months to go.

I disagreed with this when Bush said it... lots of people said Occupation is a bad thing, and Bush said we aren't Occupying them, we will leave. I didn't believe it, but before he left office he set the game plan in motion. Today, we're leaving and Obama saw it through. While I'm sure some troops will be staying, I do expect that - I'm shocked our forces aren't forced to occupy it forever.

I'll be damned, but if we can do it once... we can do it again. And in Afghan because Bush 'attack them' and they aren't who attacked us, we have shit to rebuild but now we have a lot more World support, for sure more than Iraq.

He did also campaign on this... said we would pull out of Iraq and would move troops into Afghan, which great support after saying it. Even if 'we' don't like it, Americans want the people the attacked us.

I'll blame the GOP if they don't clean up the mess that Barry left. And not just the President, but the house and the senate as well

Nam was a mistake, it was a place for the USSR to play chess with us, both sides wanted to expand, we shouldn't have been there, neither should the USSR have been there

I'm for attacking Afghanistan, not occupying it. We should have gone in, but we shold have pulled out after leveling it

Iraq should have never happened, but did love the first sortie came from Submarine Cruise missles

If whoever the next president is continues to send more troop, assets and pass war bills that allow more funds to be wasted then they are to take responsibility and be held accountable.

You should compare all war death numbers if you want to compare Bush. Bush did a half ass, misdirected job in Afghan and focused on Iraq, the wrong damn Country.

Obama is responsible for the wars now...he's responsible for getting the job done that he said he would get done. He's not responsible for falsely attacking an entire Country that did not attack us. Now "we" are now responsible for correcting the previous Presidents mistakes.

We shouldn't have ever attacked or bombed Afghan, the Country of Afghan never did anything to us, the Afghan people never attacked us. However the people that did attack us, had taken over 'parts' of Afghan.

Bush's plan, screwed us today... He attacked the entire damn Country and now we're responsible for the major mess we created. If we leave Afghan right now, that place will turn into hell, a hell we created and are responsible for.

This mentality would be like.. bombing an entire American neighborhood to kill 1 person that did something wrong, that might not even be in the neighborhood and they might not even hit the house they lived in. Once done, the Gov just roles up and says, oh well... he shouldn't have been in your neighborhood, no you don't get shit, yeah we blew up your school and bridges and food supplies... no you can't have shit, piss off. No we won't protect you from the gangs/drugs, crime that will over take your area, screw off. Protect yourself with sticks. I'm sure, you would be 'really' thrilled with our Gov if they did that to you.

That's what we did to Afghan and that's what you're suggesting we do to them.

Awesome. We're reaching a consensus here.

Now then, I have two questions:

1. What if Barry successfully ends Afghan? Will you be voting Obama in '12?
2. What is the GOP going to run their platform on if not more war? War is what they do.

You what's SO sad? This:

"It's not my fault, it's Bush's fault." - Obama
"It's not my fault, it's Clinton's fault." - George W. Bush
"It's not my fault, it's Bush's fault." - Clinton
"It's not my fault, it's Reagan's fault." - Bush
"It's not my fault, it's Carter's fault." - Reagan
"It's not my fault, it's Ford's fault." - Carter
"It's not my fault, it's Nixon's fault." - Ford
"It's not my fault, it's Johnson's fault." - Nixon
"It's not my fault, it's Kennedy's fault." - Johnson
"It's not my fault, it's Eisenhower's fault." - Kennedy
"It's not my fault, it's Truman's fault." - Eisenhower
"It's not my fault, it's Roosevelt's fault." - Truman

Blaming someone else always works in this fucktard of a country. Here's a concept for ya: STOP BLAMING AND START FIXING.

("Okay, I lied; it is all MY fault." - Nixon)

Define successfully ending the war in Afghanistan, as in whats the objective in place that defines we have won and can now leave. Under Bush it was to find OBL and fight terrorism, under Barry i have yet to hear different so we are on the same path with no end in sight.

Fundamentally i could never vote for Soetoro.

I don't know what the GOP's platform will be, im not a Republican or Conservative so its non issue for me.

if nixon had done that when it first happened chances are he would stayed president.

If you're waiting for a "win" in Afghan, you'll be waiting a long time. There is no "win" there. Only a short exit or a long exit. The goal was to ferret out OBL. That goal is never going to happen. Afghan is a total loss no matter what we try to call it or how we try to re-purpose or reconfigure it.

You have a keen sense of the inherently obvious, but why ask "1. What if Barry successfully ends Afghan?" if your answer was preloaded...kinda pointless don't you think?

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Pre-loading that question was the point.
Meaning, whether Barry ends it or GW is magically re-elected for term #3, it doesn;t really matter. The Obama hate is misguided. The Afghan war is a lose/lose all around. 9 years of futility is more than enough proof.

if at the end of 2012 the following things are done, sure
no more than a small base in Afghanistan and Iraq with less than 10k each in soldiers

Unemployment rate is in the 4% range

Obamacare is thrown out and something that will actually work is put in it's place

Anchor babies birth rate is dropped to less than 1% of the national births

NAFTA is gone

Government size is reduced by the 25%

No other wars are started

No other new taxes

and regulation on small business is turned down a notch to promote expansion

Okay, well none of those things are going to happen under Obama. So if the GOP gets back into the WH and Congress, what are you going to do when none of that happens under their watch either? Because none of it will.

If you're not with us, you're against us. Country first.

bullshit.

If you're not with the republicans, you're against the republicans. Republicans first.

correct.


But dont feel insulted, it'll be back the other way soon enough. :liebe028: :1orglaugh

Who said I thought the GOP would do a better job, I just want a balance.

You should stop trying so hard to think about what we're talking about and save what brain cells you have left





Just because I can't stand the idiot in charge, does't make me a republican

I just saw the Ben Quayle commercial a few minutes ago:



Good thing the camera didn't pan to show that he stills wears short pants... :1orglaugh

This parody was pretty funny too:



Little Skippy Silver Spoon... :1orglaugh

ADG

He is better than what we have had in a long time.

QFT! Definitely hit the nail on the head there

How you people can say this president or the previous presidents are good or bad when the politics in our country is base on multi billionaires private companies and lobbies who pay ton of money to our politicians in order to have political favoritism to preserved their global market supremacy.

Barack Obama swims off Flordia Gulf coast after oil spill

http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/au...-275593991.jpg

holy crap!
The oil in the gulf turned their skins black

He has the ability to make the right decisions when he is in a period of learning. Unlike the current President, Bush, who, after doing a History BA, came third from bottom in his year.