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-   -   UBS Swiss Bank to give USA Gov their USA client list! OMFG! (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=888834)

DWB 02-19-2009 04:52 AM

UBS Swiss Bank to give USA Gov their USA client list! OMFG!
 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090218/...ge/ubs_secrets

Hope you fellas have director nominees on those offshore accounts.

I'm speechless over this one.

Jon Clark - BANNED FOR LIFE 02-19-2009 05:05 AM

Dizzity.. Damn...

asianseekerz 02-19-2009 05:05 AM

do we sill need to trust doing offshore bank with swiss....

Kick Ass Chat 02-19-2009 05:06 AM

Interresting read for sure.:helpme

Ethersync 02-19-2009 05:14 AM

The lesson here is if you have a Swiss account that you want to keep secret from the US government you had better make damn sure that the bank the account is with does not have a presence in the US...

buyandsell 02-19-2009 05:54 AM

I am assuming UBS had some part of it based in USA otherwise they wouldn't have been able to do this.

If you look at all the money the govt is spending on stimulus etc they need to claw revenue back somewhere.

pornguy 02-19-2009 06:05 AM

Most likely the US is using the Patriot act to get the info. With that the feds can automatically suspend trade and set up embargoes against any country that refuses to work with the US on information that they say could be terrorist related. So all they have to say is...

kmanrox 02-19-2009 06:23 AM

uh oh....

Mickey_ 02-19-2009 06:26 AM

that will affect quite a few..

seeandsee 02-19-2009 06:30 AM

that is dirty

notime 02-19-2009 07:35 AM

so far for the swiss bank secrect...

Wizzo 02-19-2009 07:37 AM

All the real money is hidden in Dubai and HongKong these days... :pimp

marketsmart 02-19-2009 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 15521674)
Cyprus. Let the US government try and enact it's powers there. That will be the laugh of the day.:2 cents:

yes, because cyprus has an amazing military force...

if the US wants something, it will get it... :2 cents:

Ethersync 02-19-2009 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 15521674)
Cyprus. Let the US government try and enact it's powers there. That will be the laugh of the day.:2 cents:

Why can Cyprus can stand up to US government bullying better than Switzerland?

IllTestYourGirls 02-19-2009 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wizzo (Post 15521657)
All the real money is hidden in Dubai and HongKong these days... :pimp

Dubai for the win!

HorseShit 02-19-2009 08:26 AM

that's fucked up

Pleasurepays 02-19-2009 08:27 AM

People just can't seem to grasp that when you are suspected of financial crimes in the US or are a US Citizen... you have zero privacy... no matter where your money is. Your money is not safe anywhere, in any bank. banks can't move US dollars and deal in US Dollars around the world without complying with the US Treasury Depts rules. Period.

Try moving millions of dollars around the world through a network of companies and see your bank be put of the Treasury Depts list of money laundering banks and see how fast they give all your shit up in spite of all the bullshit about privacy, not having information sharing agreements etc that you were told by countless professionals in the beginning.

been there. done that.

In post 9/11 world.. you have no banking privacy if you are moving real money around. there is just no such thing. There are simply those who have been tested / prosecuted and those who haven't.

scuba steve 02-19-2009 09:01 AM

still sounds illegal to force another company to give up their international client list

minddust 02-19-2009 09:17 AM

fuck! I'm transfering all my found to my ecrap account

DarkJedi 02-19-2009 09:23 AM

Yeah heard it this morning.

It's pretty fucking bad.


Quote:

Originally Posted by scuba steve (Post 15521966)
still sounds illegal to force another company to give up their international client list

You mean kinda like invading other countries and stealing their oil?

:1orglaugh

DarkJedi 02-19-2009 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethersync (Post 15521332)
The lesson here is if you have a Swiss account that you want to keep secret from the US government you had better make damn sure that the bank the account is with does not have a presence in the US...

Exactly.

:2 cents:

sperbonzo 02-19-2009 09:26 AM

You can thank obama for that one. It started in 2007 when he pushed through the tax haven act.

http://www.mondaq.com/article.asp?articleid=72942



Weeeeeeee!!!!






.

sperbonzo 02-19-2009 09:28 AM

"Overview Of Obama's Stop Tax Haven Abuse Act

The STHAA would restrict the use of offshore financial centers by US persons by (i) imposing a rebuttable presumption that certain transactions between US persons and entities located in certain offshore jurisdictions are taxable, (ii) raising reporting and withholding requirements on financial institutions and fiduciaries dealing with offshore jurisdictions, and (iii) increasing penalties for tax avoidance through offshore jurisdictions.

It has been estimated that the Proposal would generate up to $50 billion of additional tax revenue annually. This anticipated tax revenue could be used to offset the costs of proposed tax breaks for middle-income Americans and a wide array of new spending programs, which Obama has promised to champion over the first few months of his presidency.

Guilty until proven innocent

The centrepiece of the STHAA is a provision that would force taxpayers to prove that they do not have control over any offshore entities with which they contract. Under this 'guilty until proven innocent' approach, the STHAA presumes that a US person has control of an entity (which includes trusts, corporations, limited liability companies and partnerships) created or domiciled in a so-called Offshore Secrecy Jurisdiction if the US person directly or indirectly formed, transferred, received assets or is a beneficiary of that entity.

The STHAA also creates a presumption of taxable income for any transfer from an offshore entity to a US person, and a presumption of unreported taxable income for any transfer from a US person to an offshore jurisdiction. Taxpayers could only rebut these presumptions by providing direct evidence that all tax owed on such amounts had been paid.

Tax havens???

The initial list of 34 'Offshore Secrecy Jurisdictions' is surprisingly broad and includes Jersey, Guernsey, the Isle of Man, Switzerland, Singapore, the Cayman Islands, the British Virgin Islands, Bermuda, the Bahamas, Hong Kong, Costa Rica and Belize. Designation as a 'tax haven' would result if the Treasury Department determines that the jurisdiction has rules in place that "unreasonably restrict the ability of the US to obtain information relevant to the enforcement" of its tax laws.

Many practitioners have expressed concern that the initial list of jurisdictions fails to separate those jurisdictions operating in conformity with widely accepted international standards from other 'rogue' jurisdictions. For example, several listed jurisdictions have signed Tax Information Exchange Agreements with the US (some very recently) and are nevertheless included on the list. Should this legislation be enacted, it is uncertain which jurisdictions ultimately may be targeted, but it appears that additional consideration should be given to what triggers inclusion on the STHAA blacklist.

Heightened reporting requirements

In an effort to ferret out potential tax abuses, the STHAA would create a presumption that any account with a financial institution formed, domiciled or operating in an Offshore Secrecy Jurisdiction has sufficient funds to trigger reporting to the IRS. The STHAA also would require financial institutions that open accounts for US persons or create nonpublicly- traded entities in Offshore Secrecy Jurisdictions to report such transactions to the IRS.

The reporting of such transactions is already required of the individual taxpayers involved, but the Proposal would place this burden on intermediaries as well and would apply to US and foreign financial institutions, fiduciaries and corporate directors.

Grantor trust rules

The STHAA expressly targets offshore trusts. The Proposal would further expand the already broad rules setting out when a US person establishing an 'offshore' trust is treated as the tax owner of the trust's income and gains. This would be accomplished by amending Section 672 of the Internal Revenue Code (the 'Code') by attributing to the grantor of a trust any power held by a trust protector and amending Section 679 of the Code to treat any US person receiving cash or other property from a foreign trust as a beneficiary of such trust.

Personal use property and loans

With respect to personal use property, the Proposal would amend Section 643(i) of the Code to treat cash, marketable securities, artwork, jewellery or other personal property loaned by a foreign trust to a US person as a taxable distribution. Such a loan would be deemed taxable on the value of the use of such property, although it is unclear how the amount of these taxes would be calculated.

Penalties and deterrents

The STHAA is clearly not intended to be a paper tiger, as evidenced by several provisions that give this tiger teeth. Senator Carl Levin, the principal sponsor of the STHAA, announced when introducing the legislation that some of the current penalties for tax evasion are "like a jaywalking ticket for robbing a bank."

The Proposal would give the IRS six years instead of three to complete audits, combating the perceived sluggishness of offshore jurisdictions to respond to audit requests. It would also broaden the use of socalled 'John Doe' summonses that are used to obtain information from offshore jurisdictions in tax investigations. Both provisions would give the IRS a decided advantage in the audit process.

Financial institutions and fiduciaries would not escape penalty for failing to comply with the STHAA. The US Department of Treasury could prohibit US banks from opening accounts for noncompliant foreign financial institutions and could prohibit US financial institutions from accepting credit card transactions involving noncompliant foreign banks.

The Proposal also calls for the codification of the 'economic substance' doctrine. This doctrine requires that transactions not only satisfy all relevant legal requirements but also must have a real economic purpose other than the creation of tax benefits. Courts have used the economic substance doctrine in the past to combat what they perceived to be 'sham' transactions. The STHAA would codify this doctrine and levy a 40 percent penalty on underpayments of tax resulting from transactions that lack economic substance."


.

tranza 02-19-2009 09:31 AM

Damn...!

Tom_PM 02-19-2009 09:32 AM

oh nm, posted now.

grumpy 02-19-2009 09:32 AM

cheap fucks, just pay your taxes

czarina 02-19-2009 09:42 AM

and here I thought nobody would spill the beans about me ;)

HomerSimpson 02-19-2009 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wizzo (Post 15521657)
All the real money is hidden in Dubai and HongKong these days... :pimp

I agree...

And I think that UBS gave only records needed for the case...
Don't believe that they sent all their records to the US...

tony286 02-19-2009 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grumpy (Post 15522114)
cheap fucks, just pay your taxes

thank you grumpy

notoldschool 02-19-2009 10:24 AM

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! If i got to pay taxes to fix this shithole then the cheap fuckers who make millions need to as well. For people that say Obama is bad for doing this...FUCK U. its about time someone took care of the crooks that have been fucking our country all along. Again fuck u.

ADL Colin 02-19-2009 10:30 AM

Surely none of these people are trying to hide their income in order to avoid taxation. It's all a simple misunderstanding. Really.

ADL Colin 02-19-2009 10:35 AM

Every person who hides their income in "safe tax havens" increases the taxes the rest of us have to pay. fuck them.

potter 02-19-2009 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notoldschool (Post 15522374)
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! If i got to pay taxes to fix this shithole then the cheap fuckers who make millions need to as well. For people that say Obama is bad for doing this...FUCK U. its about time someone took care of the crooks that have been fucking our country all along. Again fuck u.

agreed :thumbsup

Mr Pheer 02-19-2009 10:50 AM

I do all my banking in Corvallis, Oregon :thumbsup

tiger 02-19-2009 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grumpy (Post 15522114)
cheap fucks, just pay your taxes

:2 cents::2 cents:

patavax 02-19-2009 02:14 PM

Never Trust A Bank. That means N E V E R...

Europe (Switzerland is not in E.U. but I think that will change within 10 years or less if not Switzerland will / is in co-op with E.U.) is not good at all for offshore banking!
Even Cyprus is a temp. solution!

Carribean Area is best ! For the time being...

Furious_Male 02-19-2009 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays (Post 15521830)
People just can't seem to grasp that when you are suspected of financial crimes in the US or are a US Citizen... you have zero privacy... no matter where your money is. Your money is not safe anywhere, in any bank. banks can't move US dollars and deal in US Dollars around the world without complying with the US Treasury Depts rules. Period.

Try moving millions of dollars around the world through a network of companies and see your bank be put of the Treasury Depts list of money laundering banks and see how fast they give all your shit up in spite of all the bullshit about privacy, not having information sharing agreements etc that you were told by countless professionals in the beginning.

been there. done that.

In post 9/11 world.. you have no banking privacy if you are moving real money around. there is just no such thing. There are simply those who have been tested / prosecuted and those who haven't.

You are right on the money. Those that think they are being sneaky really have no clue. When/If the US govt. wants to see your money flow they will be able to do it without a problem.

Cyprus cracks me up. People that honestly think that is a safe haven that the US govt. doesn't have access to have another thing coming when shit hits the fan.

notime 02-19-2009 02:45 PM

All taxes worldwide compared:
http://www.worldwide-tax.com/

Cyprus - IRS Tax Treaty Documents
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/intern...169497,00.html

ADL Colin 02-19-2009 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 15522441)
Not necessarily true. Let's say you own a business overseas that only sells to countries "outside" the US and you pay the local tax. Why should you be subjected to the US tax because you were born American?

Depends on the law. If they are breaking it then yes they are increasing my taxes by avoiding the law. Whether they disagree with the law is immaterial. There are a lot of laws I disagree with that I still obey -- and a few I don't ;-)

jollyperv 02-19-2009 03:02 PM

Party's over


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