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-   -   Tax Burden of Top 1% Now Exceeds That of Bottom 95% (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=975883)

DavieVegas 06-30-2010 01:43 PM

Tax Burden of Top 1% Now Exceeds That of Bottom 95%
 
http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/24944.html

Newly released data from the IRS clearly debunks the conventional Beltway rhetoric that the "rich" are not paying their fair share of taxes.

Indeed, the IRS data shows that in 2007?the most recent data available?the top 1 percent of taxpayers paid 40.4 percent of the total income taxes collected by the federal government. This is the highest percentage in modern history. By contrast, the top 1 percent paid 24.8 percent of the income tax burden in 1987, the year following the 1986 tax reform act.

Remarkably, the share of the tax burden borne by the top 1 percent now exceeds the share paid by the bottom 95 percent of taxpayers combined. In 2007, the bottom 95 percent paid 39.4 percent of the income tax burden. This is down from the 58 percent of the total income tax burden they paid twenty years ago.

To put this in perspective, the top 1 percent is comprised of just 1.4 million taxpayers and they pay a larger share of the income tax burden now than the bottom 134 million taxpayers combined.

Some in Washington say the tax system is still not progressive enough. However, the recent IRS data bolsters the findings of an OECD study released last year showing that the U.S.?not France or Sweden?has the most progressive income tax system among OECD nations. We rely more heavily on the top 10 percent of taxpayers than does any nation and our poor people have the lowest tax burden of those in any nation.

We are definitely overdue for some honesty in the debate over the progressivity of the nation's tax burden before lawmakers enact any new taxes to pay for expanded health care.

rabbit 06-30-2010 02:09 PM

with all that gov. debt coming due, you'll be happy when you remember today's tax rates

TheDoc 06-30-2010 02:15 PM

I always thought the top 1% paid the biggest chunk of taxes... I also thought the debate was over if taxing the rich more helped or not or if giving them tax cuts helped or not, not if they paid more or not.

Titan 06-30-2010 02:18 PM

Progressive taxes are actually harmful because they de-motivate people to make more money

CamJack 06-30-2010 02:25 PM

I like the flat tax 15%

Shoplifter 06-30-2010 02:38 PM

Well of course they do if they are making more than 95% of the rest.

Talk about using stats to be dramatic..

BestXXXPorn 06-30-2010 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geoGUERILLA (Post 17292348)
I like the flat tax 15%

Here here... Flat tax would fucking rock! Abolish the income tax!

Coup 06-30-2010 02:47 PM

flat tax is the most insidious thing ever. and fuck you idiots for thinking it's a good idea

mountainmiester 06-30-2010 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geoGUERILLA (Post 17292348)
I like the flat tax 15%

Ditto, it's very fair while at the same time reduced the loops holes that are found at the higher levels of income.

One wonders at what point will we see, if we already aren't, funds being moved to off shore banks or businesses moving to more tax friendly countries.

TheDoc 06-30-2010 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coup (Post 17292437)
flat tax is the most insidious thing ever. and fuck you idiots for thinking it's a good idea

Much like your posts, but your posts have a twist of lame troll added in.

BFT3K 06-30-2010 02:59 PM

Cue the demon in 3... 2... 1...

NetHorse 06-30-2010 03:02 PM

It's only going to get worse and soon it won't only be the top 1%. Someone has to fund all the ridiculous entitlement programs under the current administration.

http://standupforamerica.files.wordp...ism-poster.jpg

Vendzilla 06-30-2010 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 17292481)
Much like your posts, but your posts have a twist of lame troll added in.

:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

sortie 06-30-2010 03:06 PM

How many poor people asked for government help to keep Somali pirates from
taking their shit?

How many poor people had to be rescued from their "around the world sailing trip"?

How many poor people pollute the air with their private jets?

How many poor people run restaurants that create 3 tons of garbage a week?

Etc....


They pay because they use.

Resources : fucking pay for it you land hogging, pile of garbage making, black smoke
blowing, semi-truck highway hogging, water wasting swimming pool, H2 hummer driving,
eco-system destroying motherfuckers.

:1orglaugh

mynameisjim 06-30-2010 03:07 PM

Looks like the political trolls in the media have found good traction lately by talking about taxes.

Don't expect any honest debate on the issue until the trolls have moved on to their next target. Until then just spin the numbers back and forth to say whatever you want.

BFT3K 06-30-2010 03:08 PM

Taxes will be going up across the board. It is inevitable.

Vendzilla 06-30-2010 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sortie (Post 17292534)
How many poor people asked for government help to keep Somali pirates from
taking their shit?

How many poor people had to be rescued from their "around the world sailing trip"?

How many poor people pollute the air with their private jets?

How many poor people run restaurants that create 3 tons of garbage a week?

Etc....


They pay because they use.

Resources : fucking pay for it you land hogging, pile of garbage making, black smoke
blowing, semi-truck highway hogging, water wasting swimming pool, H2 hummer driving,
eco-system destroying motherfuckers.

:1orglaugh

How many poor people employ others?

How many poor people build hospitals?

How many poor people build schools?

Taxes pay for all the things that poor people need, so your arguement is well, full of shit

baddog 06-30-2010 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coup (Post 17292437)
flat tax is the most insidious thing ever.

Why is that?

Vendzilla 06-30-2010 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K (Post 17292544)
Taxes will be going up across the board. It is inevitable.

thats an understatement, with all the money spent to improve the economy that missed the mark, that money has to come from somewhere and taxes is where it comes from

Sly 06-30-2010 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titan (Post 17292318)
Progressive taxes are actually harmful because they de-motivate people to make more money

I was once interviewing a guy for a job, the job paid cash. He had a full-time job working at a state mental institution and made pretty good money. Nothing major, but pretty good money. He told me that he wanted to get a secondary part time job to put together more money to put his kids through college but his accountant told him that if he did, his tax rate would go up and it would actually cost him money to work a part-time job. Hence his interest in cash only jobs.

Nobody should be punished for wanting to earn extra money.

seeandsee 06-30-2010 03:17 PM

universal tax should be pooled, we all pay the same

BFT3K 06-30-2010 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla (Post 17292570)
How many poor people employ others?

How many poor people build hospitals?

How many poor people build schools?

Taxes pay for all the things that poor people need, so your arguement is well, full of shit

Trickle down economics has never worked... it is a load of shit, and if you are in the top 1% or 2% of the wealthiest Americans, you can easily pay the same tax rate that was the case under Reagan.

Naechy 06-30-2010 03:19 PM

de motivation is shit

BFT3K 06-30-2010 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly (Post 17292584)
I was once interviewing a guy for a job, the job paid cash. He had a full-time job working at a state mental institution and made pretty good money. Nothing major, but pretty good money. He told me that he wanted to get a secondary part time job to put together more money to put his kids through college but his accountant told him that if he did, his tax rate would go up and it would actually cost him money to work a part-time job. Hence his interest in cash only jobs.

Nobody should be punished for wanting to earn extra money.

If I make $50,000 a year and I have to pay 30% in taxes, or I can make $1,000,000 per year, and pay 40% instead, guess which option I will choose?

Don't worry, the rich will always be rich...

mynameisjim 06-30-2010 03:20 PM

Isn't the REAL story there how huge the income gap has opened up between the super rich and everybody else?

Sly 06-30-2010 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K (Post 17292598)
If I make $50,000 a year and I have to pay 30% in taxes, or I can make $1,000,000 per year, and pay 40% instead, guess which option I will choose?

Don't worry, the rich will always be rich...

My story wasn't about being rich. It was about the common everyday Joe trying to make a little extra money and being punished for doing so.

kane 06-30-2010 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titan (Post 17292318)
Progressive taxes are actually harmful because they de-motivate people to make more money

I have heard this before yet have never seen proof of it. There are more wealthy people in this country today than ever before. Those who are rich are richer than they have ever been.

While the average worker in this country has seen their wages go up at about 1% per year, those in the top 5% have seen their net worth increase by over 300%.

I'm not saying it is right or fair to tax the rich. they worked for their money and shouldn't be forced to shoulder all of the tax burden, but I just don't buy the story of higher taxes de-motivating people to make money.

Look at it like this. Say you have a guy making 750K per year. He sees that the tax rate is going to go up another 10% so he is going to have pay an additional 75K per year in taxes. It is understandable that he is not happy about this. Do you really think he is just going to stop working so that he can get down do around 150K per year in income to avoid those taxes?

At 750K per year with that increase he would pay 45% to feds leaving him 412K
At 150K per year it would put him in the 28% bracket leaving him 108K

so he is going to take a 304K per year pay cut to avoid paying extra taxes? I'm not buying it. Would you take that kind of cut?

Atticus 06-30-2010 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane (Post 17292619)
I have heard this before yet have never seen proof of it. There are more wealthy people in this country today than ever before. Those who are rich are richer than they have ever been.

While the average worker in this country has seen their wages go up at about 1% per year, those in the top 5% have seen their net worth increase by over 300%.

I'm not saying it is right or fair to tax the rich. they worked for their money and shouldn't be forced to shoulder all of the tax burden, but I just don't buy the story of higher taxes de-motivating people to make money.

Look at it like this. Say you have a guy making 750K per year. He sees that the tax rate is going to go up another 10% so he is going to have pay an additional 75K per year in taxes. It is understandable that he is not happy about this. Do you really think he is just going to stop working so that he can get down do around 150K per year in income to avoid those taxes?

At 750K per year with that increase he would pay 45% to feds leaving him 412K
At 150K per year it would put him in the 28% bracket leaving him 108K

so he is going to take a 304K per year pay cut to avoid paying extra taxes? I'm not buying it. Would you take that kind of cut?


If anything it's the opposite. They work harder to pay the increased taxes and then make even more. The wealthy are wealthy for a reason. And unfortunately the poor are poor for a reason. Lazyness is rampant in this country (world).

kane 06-30-2010 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atticus (Post 17292685)
If anything it's the opposite. They work harder to pay the increased taxes and then make even more. The wealthy are wealthy for a reason. And unfortunately the poor are poor for a reason. Lazyness is rampant in this country (world).

There is a lot of truth to this. People who are rich and earned that money themselves are Type A people. They are hyper-competitive and often see the money as more of a scorecard than anything else. These are the type of people who would work hard to succeed no matter what the tax rate was. And many of those who are poor don't have that drive and they have no education on how to handle money or make money work for them.

A good example is Mark Cuban. I read his blog all the time. He has billions, but says he spends all day every day thinking about business. Even when he is trying to relax and watch TV or a movie he says he starts thinking of ways he could use the movie, a situation in the movie, or something around him to make money. For example he said that he was watching The Apprentice and in that episode the people were going out and buying magazines and food from newsstands and carts in New York. He found himself wondering why someone doesn't start a business selling advertising on the people that work at these places. He could pay each one to wear a shirt that advertised something. If you got a ton of newsstands and carts you could get some nice coverage.

IllTestYourGirls 06-30-2010 04:08 PM

The only fair income tax is no tax.

kane 06-30-2010 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls (Post 17292721)
The only fair income tax is no tax.

Well said.:thumbsup

BV 06-30-2010 04:54 PM

i'd prefer a federal sales tax

that way you only pay tax on what you spend

brentbacardi 06-30-2010 05:16 PM

Three things!

1. Our country survived without an income tax for many years. Its not a necessity to run government. Some states still do not have income tax yet still manage to have state governments and programs.

2. Any high taxes imposed on anyone makes incentives for people and companies to MOVE OUT OF THE COUNTRY lol. I personally know a few small business owners from NY who just closed there businesses to reopen in states with lower state taxes. And I forget the company but I just read of a company that closed up in the USA to open in Mexico. WOW!

3. The real solution...... a step ladder progressive tax, with no deductions! I wrote this as a paper in a college class and madd profs gave me props! I did a lot of math with it (which i dont remember and will not redo lol) but basically, the lowest earning idk below maybe 20,000 or 30,000 with dependents or so pay ZERO taxes.

The next level of earners pays like 15% and the next level like 20%, no deductions and stricter write offs THUS, almost any business or person would not need to pay for tax accountants etc thus making their overall tax experience cheaper as well for those that use them.

Math wise, it worked out to about the same as what we collect in taxes now and for many they would pay about the same. Except those getting tons of deductions but then they wouldnt need to hire an accountant to get them all those deductions.

Its not perfect but way better AND realistic than anything I have ever heard on the subject.

Just a thought... lol

IllTestYourGirls 06-30-2010 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brentbacardi (Post 17292937)
Three things!

1. Our country survived without an income tax for many years. Its not a necessity to run government. Some states still do not have income tax yet still manage to have state governments and programs.

2. Any high taxes imposed on anyone makes incentives for people and companies to MOVE OUT OF THE COUNTRY lol. I personally know a few small business owners from NY who just closed there businesses to reopen in states with lower state taxes. And I forget the company but I just read of a company that closed up in the USA to open in Mexico. WOW!

3. The real solution...... a step ladder progressive tax, with no deductions! I wrote this as a paper in a college class and madd profs gave me props! I did a lot of math with it (which i dont remember and will not redo lol) but basically, the lowest earning idk below maybe 20,000 or 30,000 with dependents or so pay ZERO taxes.

The next level of earners pays like 15% and the next level like 20%, no deductions and stricter write offs THUS, almost any business or person would not need to pay for tax accountants etc thus making their overall tax experience cheaper as well for those that use them.

Math wise, it worked out to about the same as what we collect in taxes now and for many they would pay about the same. Except those getting tons of deductions but then they wouldnt need to hire an accountant to get them all those deductions.

Its not perfect but way better AND realistic than anything I have ever heard on the subject.

Just a thought... lol

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh You forgot the part in your paper where it would kill the economy?

brentbacardi 06-30-2010 05:26 PM

Sorry to anyone who is a tax accountant or is related to one (that they like) but it really is a bullshit job. Why should you have to pay someone to help you with your taxes? It really should be simple math shouldn't it?

Sly 06-30-2010 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brentbacardi (Post 17292955)
Sorry to anyone who is a tax accountant or is related to one (that they like) but it really is a bullshit job. Why should you have to pay someone to help you with your taxes? It really should be simple math shouldn't it?

Hey, since madd profs gave you props... I'm totally with you.

Titan 06-30-2010 05:30 PM

It doesn't really apply to people who make big money already. If you make 750k u are in the top 1% already. Its for people who make an average salary of say 45k a year and are looking to go up. Any money you make above that amount has a very steep tax rate. Why work harder when the government will just take 40% of any extra money you make when you can be lazy and only get taxed 10%?


Quote:

Originally Posted by kane (Post 17292619)
I have heard this before yet have never seen proof of it. There are more wealthy people in this country today than ever before. Those who are rich are richer than they have ever been.

While the average worker in this country has seen their wages go up at about 1% per year, those in the top 5% have seen their net worth increase by over 300%.

I'm not saying it is right or fair to tax the rich. they worked for their money and shouldn't be forced to shoulder all of the tax burden, but I just don't buy the story of higher taxes de-motivating people to make money.

Look at it like this. Say you have a guy making 750K per year. He sees that the tax rate is going to go up another 10% so he is going to have pay an additional 75K per year in taxes. It is understandable that he is not happy about this. Do you really think he is just going to stop working so that he can get down do around 150K per year in income to avoid those taxes?

At 750K per year with that increase he would pay 45% to feds leaving him 412K
At 150K per year it would put him in the 28% bracket leaving him 108K

so he is going to take a 304K per year pay cut to avoid paying extra taxes? I'm not buying it. Would you take that kind of cut?


theking 06-30-2010 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavieVegas (Post 17292184)
http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/24944.html

Newly released data from the IRS clearly debunks the conventional Beltway rhetoric that the "rich" are not paying their fair share of taxes.

Indeed, the IRS data shows that in 2007?the most recent data available?the top 1 percent of taxpayers paid 40.4 percent of the total income taxes collected by the federal government. This is the highest percentage in modern history. By contrast, the top 1 percent paid 24.8 percent of the income tax burden in 1987, the year following the 1986 tax reform act.

Remarkably, the share of the tax burden borne by the top 1 percent now exceeds the share paid by the bottom 95 percent of taxpayers combined. In 2007, the bottom 95 percent paid 39.4 percent of the income tax burden. This is down from the 58 percent of the total income tax burden they paid twenty years ago.

To put this in perspective, the top 1 percent is comprised of just 1.4 million taxpayers and they pay a larger share of the income tax burden now than the bottom 134 million taxpayers combined.

Some in Washington say the tax system is still not progressive enough. However, the recent IRS data bolsters the findings of an OECD study released last year showing that the U.S.?not France or Sweden?has the most progressive income tax system among OECD nations. We rely more heavily on the top 10 percent of taxpayers than does any nation and our poor people have the lowest tax burden of those in any nation.

We are definitely overdue for some honesty in the debate over the progressivity of the nation's tax burden before lawmakers enact any new taxes to pay for expanded health care.

What is the top rate that one is now taxed...36% is it...which is down from the 92% that it was when JFK became President and that Nixon reduced down and Reagan reduced down even more and Bush reduced down to the current level.

All that report means is there are more wealthy people than ever and wealthier people than ever.

IllTestYourGirls 06-30-2010 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brentbacardi (Post 17292955)
Sorry to anyone who is a tax accountant or is related to one (that they like) but it really is a bullshit job. Why should you have to pay someone to help you with your taxes? It really should be simple math shouldn't it?

Yeah it should be. 0% of X is what?

Titan 06-30-2010 05:32 PM

They have done studies that show when you lower the rate on the highest tax bracket it improves the economy.


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