Should I sell my PC for an IMAC? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Zprogramz · 12-02-2010, 10:23 PM

Absolutely. Your productivity will skyrocket and you will have fun with it too.

DirtyDanza · 12-02-2010, 10:24 PM

yay for sure

Spunky · 12-02-2010, 10:27 PM

I'd rather bang smack than go for a Mac...

CheeseFrog · 12-02-2010, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slutboat

go to every production house in hollywood - all video editing and photoshop and creative is done on mac... 100 percent. Since the earliest days of AVID to present I have never once seen any creative projects being done on a PC in any production house I have worked at or visited...not one...that pretty much says it all.

The heck does that have anything to do with anything? I guess if you want to play that game, then go to any pro gaming series in the world. NOBODY runs a Mac or IPS monitors. It's all Windows-based machines. Lot of people still run CRTs where speed is all that matters. Don't get me wrong, Macs are nice, but in pro competition it's like brining a Bently to a top fuel drag race.

mgtarheels · 12-02-2010, 11:44 PM

An iMac is a PC.

potter · 12-02-2010, 11:46 PM

Ok, here is the real deal.

Unix is and will always be the best operating system known to man. OSX is a gui on unix. There is absolutely no better way to run a system other than unix, none. Linux is great, but I mean none. Unix > * always and forever.

That said, your obviously a big do-it-yourselfer. I used to be too. I did it all, water-cooled, crazy procs, insane amounts of ram, the coolest fucking mobo on the market. When I went to macs, I kept up the custom pc gig for about 2 years. Eventually I just stopped. Specially when macs went to the one-click windows dual/virutal windows boots.

This is how it is. Apple uses some of the best hardware available on the market in their computers. Sure, in some instances - there is hardware on the market better than what apple is using. However with that said there is no retail computer manufacturer offering it. With apple you get the best hardware that is being used in the retail market. That is the only reason they are more expensive than most retailers (however with your specs, you know $2k for a computer is cheap as all hell).

Now. Since I've gone mac, I upgrade every 12-18 months (as usual, seeing your specs I'm sure you do the same). Apple products keep their value. Literally, it's insane (I just got the iphone4 for $200, and sold my iphone3G the next day on ebay for $213). When I opt in for a new apple computer - I do so soon as they launch a new line. For example, last year I did so with the macbook. Right now my macbook is as powerful as the top of the line macbook pro. This is just how apple does it, when they launch a new version of a product it totally pwns the rest. I'm trailing here though. My point is, in a couple months when apple launches the new macbook pro line, I'll sell my macbook and buy a pro. I'll make up for at least half the price of the new one for the price I'll sell my old one for -- they just keep value like crazy.

Oh, and another great thing about macs. When I but my new one -- they transfer my whole system to the new computer. Because it's unix, and the hardware they've chosen for their operating system - it works that way.

.... Oh, and everyone saying hackintosh is the way to go (building a pc as close to apple specs as possible and installing osx). Fun, and very cool -- try it - it is fun. Not good on a production computer. I did it for two and a half years. Wicked cool, and lots of fun and I had a blast running the system. However it's a timebomb waiting to happen. OSX is simply too structured for the specific hardware lines apple uses.

mgtarheels · 12-02-2010, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slutboat

go to every production house in hollywood - all video editing and photoshop and creative is done on mac... 100 percent. Since the earliest days of AVID to present I have never once seen any creative projects being done on a PC in any production house I have worked at or visited...not one...that pretty much says it all.

Yeah, it speaks volumes of the sheep you're talking about.

If you think you can't do something on a PC that can be done on a Mac, for even cheaper, you're mistaken.

mgtarheels · 12-02-2010, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by potter

This is how it is. Apple uses some of the best hardware available on the market in their computers. Sure, in some instances - there is hardware on the market better than what apple is using. However with that said there is no retail computer manufacturer offering it. With apple you get the best hardware that is being used in the retail market. That is the only reason they are more expensive than most retailers (however with your specs, you know $2k for a computer is cheap as all hell).

Wrong...

potter · 12-03-2010, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgtarheels

Wrong...

Easy for you to say that eh? If you really wanted to prove your point you would have actually provided some evidence to support your opinion. I built my own computers for nearly half my life.

I know what good parts are, and what aren't. The last line of mac pro's used a $900 Intel Server Motherboard. Show me one retailer that had that kind of mobo in their system.

mgtarheels · 12-03-2010, 12:03 AM

My opinion:

Keep your whitebox. If you really want to try OS X, then dual boot. Your whitebox is better than what you can get with Apple.

I'd recommend going Ubuntu, though.

mgtarheels · 12-03-2010, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by potter

Easy for you to say that eh? If you really wanted to prove your point you would have actually provided some evidence to support your opinion. I built my own computers for nearly half my life.

I know what good parts are, and what aren't. The last line of mac pro's used a $900 Intel Server Motherboard. Show me one retailer that had that kind of mobo in their system.

Don't speak in the now when your examples are in the past.

Show me what you don't believe is in the retail market from another retailer.

CheeseFrog · 12-03-2010, 12:09 AM

nVidia GT330m is the best hardware on the market now?

mgtarheels · 12-03-2010, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CheeseFrog

nVidia GT330m is the best hardware on the market now?

potter · 12-03-2010, 12:16 AM

1. I said retail, not market. I mean I literally said that you could find better stuff but not retail.

2. I was using the mac pro as the example. Which would be the ATI Radeon HD 5770 with 1GB GDDR5

3. If you want to use the laptop's vid card as the example. Then show me a retail laptop with better, because even the highest end laptops have almost the exact same video card.

CheeseFrog · 12-03-2010, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by potter

1. I said retail, not market. I mean I literally said that you could find better stuff but not retail.

2. I was using the mac pro as the example. Which would be the ATI Radeon HD 5770 with 1GB GDDR5

3. If you want to use the laptop's vid card as the example. Then show me a retail laptop with better, because even the highest end laptops have almost the exact same video card.

Really? You sure about that?

potter · 12-03-2010, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgtarheels

My opinion:

Keep your whitebox. If you really want to try OS X, then dual boot. Your whitebox is better than what you can get with Apple.

I'd recommend going Ubuntu, though.

I've done the dual boot, I've done the osx on custom built pc. And no, ubunu is not better than unix. I do love linux, but it's no where near the system unix is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgtarheels

Don't speak in the now when your examples are in the past.

Show me what you don't believe is in the retail market from another retailer.

Mac Pros STILL use Intel Server mobos. Show me one single retailer with that type of hardware in their system

potter · 12-03-2010, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CheeseFrog

Really? You sure about that?

Your point was to say this instead of actually proving me wrong?

mgtarheels · 12-03-2010, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by potter

1. I said retail, not market. I mean I literally said that you could find better stuff but not retail.

2. I was using the mac pro as the example. Which would be the ATI Radeon HD 5770 with 1GB GDDR5

3. If you want to use the laptop's vid card as the example. Then show me a retail laptop with better, because even the highest end laptops have almost the exact same video card.

1. Uh, what? Reread what I typed.
2. Lol, even a shitty ibuypower can top the 5770.
3. Toshiba laptops come with 460m GPUs.

botfurom · 12-03-2010, 12:30 AM

Just reformat it and installed games!!

CheeseFrog · 12-03-2010, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by potter

Your point was to say this instead of actually proving me wrong?

I was trying to give you an opportunity to take your foot out of your mouth. The ATI 5770 is a great tier 2 card, but it's nowhere near the tier 1 class nVidia GTX 285m SLI available in Alienware laptops (among others).

An optioned out MacBook Pro can probably match (and in some cases beat) the performance of my 11" netbook though, I'll give it that much.

mgtarheels · 12-03-2010, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by potter

I've done the dual boot, I've done the osx on custom built pc. And no, ubunu is not better than unix. I do love linux, but it's no where near the system unix is.

Mac Pros STILL use Intel Server mobos. Show me one single retailer with that type of hardware in their system

For starters, Unix doesn't exist anymore. Lookalikes and clones exist. Also, no one was ever better than the other. It was a matter of preferences based on your needs.

Second point - looking.

mgtarheels · 12-03-2010, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CheeseFrog

I was trying to give you an opportunity to take your foot out of your mouth. The ATI 5770 is a great tier 2 card, but it's nowhere near the tier 1 class nVidia GTX 285m SLI available in Alienware laptops (among others).

An optioned out MacBook Pro can probably match (and in some cases beat) the performance of my 11" netbook though, I'll give it that much.

It also gets destroyed by the 480s out now

mgtarheels · 12-03-2010, 12:42 AM

Oh, and pieces of shit HP's come with Intel Xeons.

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en...5-3718663.html

potter · 12-03-2010, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CheeseFrog

I was trying to give you an opportunity to take your foot out of your mouth. The ATI 5770 is a great tier 2 card, but it's nowhere near the tier 1 class nVidia GTX 285m SLI available in Alienware laptops (among others).

An optioned out MacBook Pro can probably match (and in some cases beat) the performance of my 11" netbook though, I'll give it that much.

You do realize the GTX 285 is an upgrade, so it's a literal "optioned out" video card at that point.

And that same laptop doesn't come with as good of a CPU, and it doesn't have the LED display.

potter · 12-03-2010, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgtarheels

Oh, and pieces of shit HP's come with Intel Xeons.

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en...5-3718663.html

Yeah dude, customize that to the lowest end mac pro and it's 3X as much money ($4,700). You can't just find the cheapest friggin server on hp.com and compare it because it has the same proc.

Sid70 · 12-03-2010, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeanCapture

Open Photoshop, at the top go to Window > Application Frame and make sure it's checked. Now you have a background. Unless you are working with an older version of PS

Thanks, mate, repped!

potter · 12-03-2010, 01:08 AM

that's enough computer warage for me. i've done linux, unix, osx, windows, and always owned custom built pc's my whole life (never once owned a retail store bought pc).

i'll take my own opinion over anyone on here any day of the week. night ;)

mgtarheels · 12-03-2010, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by potter

Yeah dude, customize that to the lowest end mac pro and it's 3X as much money ($4,700). You can't just find the cheapest friggin server on hp.com and compare it because it has the same proc.

Why can't I?

You said no other retailer offers Intel server CPUs. I showed you one that does.

You're changing your initial arguments.

mafia_man · 12-03-2010, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmy-3-way

x2.

Productivity out the ass with these babies.

Because you can't play games?

CPA37710T · 12-03-2010, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fris

yay or ney?

what the hell is wrong with u.. MAC? Mac is a horrible outdated system for peoplpe who want to be fashioned and look classy.. nothing like a PC..its like comparing a muscle car with a bmw JEEZ!

Realgfs · 12-03-2010, 06:04 AM

yay!!!!!!

Supz · 12-03-2010, 07:26 AM

I had one for a few weeks, hated it and got rid of it.

michael.kickass · 12-03-2010, 08:20 AM

I think not!

potter · 12-03-2010, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgtarheels

Why can't I?

You said no other retailer offers Intel server CPUs. I showed you one that does.

You're changing your initial arguments.

Fine dude, by going to Dell's obscure server catalog and optioning out the system. Totally missing the point I was making, and taking what I said to the extreme literal meaning - you win.

...There, you happy?

Grapesoda · 12-03-2010, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myneid

yes, get a mac.
the only people that cannot switch to mac from a PC are the stubborn ones.
tey also always have an old phone like motorola star tac

it's about cost/time/workflow for me...

mgtarheels · 12-03-2010, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by potter

Fine dude, by going to Dell's obscure server catalog and optioning out the system. Totally missing the point I was making, and taking what I said to the extreme literal meaning - you win.

...There, you happy?

All I did was go to HP's website, just the same as I did for Apple's.

mineistaken · 12-03-2010, 06:32 PM

no

another pc vs mac thread.......

CYF · 12-03-2010, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgtarheels

For starters, Unix doesn't exist anymore. Lookalikes and clones exist. Also, no one was ever better than the other. It was a matter of preferences based on your needs.

Second point - looking.

Yes it does still exist actually. Mac OS X Snow Leopard is certified unix, for instance.

Helix · 12-03-2010, 07:02 PM

OS wars...lol. Amiga ftw!

Grapesoda · 12-03-2010, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by potter

I built my own computers for nearly half my life.

which half???

mgtarheels · 12-03-2010, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CYF

Yes it does still exist actually. Mac OS X Snow Leopard is certified unix, for instance.

Again, UNIX does not exist anymore. They're all clones.

OS X was based off UNIX, but it is NOT UNIX.

CYF · 12-03-2010, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgtarheels

Again, UNIX does not exist anymore. They're all clones.

OS X was based off UNIX, but it is NOT UNIX.

"Apple's Mac OS X Leopard has received the stamp of approval as an official unix operating system. The official UNIX 03 certification, which entitled the company to use the Unix brand, came from the Open Group"

mgtarheels · 12-03-2010, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CYF

"Apple's Mac OS X Leopard has received the stamp of approval as an official unix operating system. The official UNIX 03 certification, which entitled the company to use the Unix brand, came from the Open Group"

And?

Again, it's based off UNIX.

Specifically, it's called Darwin. Darwin is from BSD. BSD is from UNIX when UNIX stopped being free.

CYF · 12-03-2010, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgtarheels

And?

Again, it's based off UNIX.

Specifically, it's called Darwin. Darwin is from BSD. BSD is from UNIX when UNIX stopped being free.

University of California at Berkeley was able to use ATT's unix code to create the Berkeley Standard Distribution (BSD). All of the BSD operating systems are direct descendants and are unix. "Historically, BSD has been considered a branch of UNIX?"BSD UNIX", because it shared the initial codebase and design with the original AT&T UNIX operating system."

Linux was a made from scratch clone and I don't consider it a real unix.

mgtarheels · 12-03-2010, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CYF

University of California at Berkeley was able to use ATT's unix code to create the Berkeley Standard Distribution (BSD). All of the BSD operating systems are direct descendants and are unix. "Historically, BSD has been considered a branch of UNIX?"BSD UNIX", because it shared the initial codebase and design with the original AT&T UNIX operating system."

Linux was a made from scratch clone and I don't consider it a real unix.

Mac OS X is a Unix-like operating system built on technology that had been developed at NeXT through the second half of the 1980s and up until Apple purchased the company in early 1997.

I don't consider Linux real UNIX, either.

2MuchMark · 12-03-2010, 10:29 PM

iMacs:

- Very high res display? Check. (2560x1440)
- Amazing display? No really, AMAZING display? Check.
- Fast? Check.
- Runs everything a PC does? Check.
- Runs Windows? Check. (But why would you want to? )
- Built-in 802/11 N WiFi? Check.
- Bluetooth? Check!
- Whisper Quiet? Check.
- Wireless Keyboard and Wireless Mouse standard? Check!
- Multi-Touch Mouse? (Think iPhone natural use) Check.
- Built in High quality webcam? Check!
- Built in Microphone and Speakers (that both sound pretty decent?) Check.

There's just nothing to hate and everything to love about these machines. Wireless is particularly nice. I have a single cable coming out of the back of mine, compared to my PC which has 10 Cables. (2 x power, keyboard, mouse, ethernet, monitor data, 2 x speakers, microphone, camera). 10 !!

It's time to evolve pc users. Don't resist the temptation. Come on over. It's ok, its ok.. shhhh... shhhhh... there ya go... one of us...one of us...

mgtarheels · 12-03-2010, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by **********

iMacs:

- Very high res display? Check. (2560x1440)
- Amazing display? No really, AMAZING display? Check.
- Fast? Check.
- Runs everything a PC does? Check.
- Runs Windows? Check. (But why would you want to? )
- Built-in 802/11 N WiFi? Check.
- Bluetooth? Check!
- Whisper Quiet? Check.
- Wireless Keyboard and Wireless Mouse standard? Check!
- Multi-Touch Mouse? (Think iPhone natural use) Check.
- Built in High quality webcam? Check!
- Built in Microphone and Speakers (that both sound pretty decent?) Check.

There's just nothing to hate and everything to love about these machines. Wireless is particularly nice. I have a single cable coming out of the back of mine, compared to my PC which has 10 Cables. (2 x power, keyboard, mouse, ethernet, monitor data, 2 x speakers, microphone, camera). 10 !!

It's time to evolve pc users. Don't resist the temptation. Come on over. It's ok, its ok.. shhhh... shhhhh... there ya go... one of us...one of us...

The only issue I have with Macs is the price and how pretty they try to make everything.

IMO, cut down on the aesthetics and put it into hardware. Then I'd be a fan.

Oh, and be more compatible, without ||s, for gaming :>

CYF · 12-03-2010, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgtarheels

Mac OS X is a Unix-like operating system built on technology that had been developed at NeXT through the second half of the 1980s and up until Apple purchased the company in early 1997.

I don't consider Linux real UNIX, either.

you yourself stated that OS X uses BSD code. BSD is unix. OS X is also certified unix. Therefore your argument is wrong.

mgtarheels · 12-03-2010, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CYF

you yourself stated that OS X uses BSD code. BSD is unix. OS X is also certified unix. Therefore your argument is wrong.

God damn man. Stop arguing if you haven't a clue.

UNIX does NOT exist anymore. UNIX is a STANDARD, NOT an OS.

CYF · 12-03-2010, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgtarheels

God damn man. Stop arguing if you haven't a clue.

UNIX does NOT exist anymore. UNIX is a STANDARD, NOT an OS.

Ok then, what do you call Solaris? A unix-like OS?

Perhaps it's you that needs to educate yourself before getting into these discussions

12-02-2010, 10:24 PM	#52
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12-02-2010, 10:27 PM	#53
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12-02-2010, 11:46 PM	#56
potter Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Denver Posts: 6,559	Ok, here is the real deal. Unix is and will always be the best operating system known to man. OSX is a gui on unix. There is absolutely no better way to run a system other than unix, none. Linux is great, but I mean none. Unix > * always and forever. That said, your obviously a big do-it-yourselfer. I used to be too. I did it all, water-cooled, crazy procs, insane amounts of ram, the coolest fucking mobo on the market. When I went to macs, I kept up the custom pc gig for about 2 years. Eventually I just stopped. Specially when macs went to the one-click windows dual/virutal windows boots. This is how it is. Apple uses some of the best hardware available on the market in their computers. Sure, in some instances - there is hardware on the market better than what apple is using. However with that said there is no retail computer manufacturer offering it. With apple you get the best hardware that is being used in the retail market. That is the only reason they are more expensive than most retailers (however with your specs, you know $2k for a computer is cheap as all hell). Now. Since I've gone mac, I upgrade every 12-18 months (as usual, seeing your specs I'm sure you do the same). Apple products keep their value. Literally, it's insane (I just got the iphone4 for $200, and sold my iphone3G the next day on ebay for $213). When I opt in for a new apple computer - I do so soon as they launch a new line. For example, last year I did so with the macbook. Right now my macbook is as powerful as the top of the line macbook pro. This is just how apple does it, when they launch a new version of a product it totally pwns the rest. I'm trailing here though. My point is, in a couple months when apple launches the new macbook pro line, I'll sell my macbook and buy a pro. I'll make up for at least half the price of the new one for the price I'll sell my old one for -- they just keep value like crazy. Oh, and another great thing about macs. When I but my new one -- they transfer my whole system to the new computer. Because it's unix, and the hardware they've chosen for their operating system - it works that way. .... Oh, and everyone saying hackintosh is the way to go (building a pc as close to apple specs as possible and installing osx). Fun, and very cool -- try it - it is fun. Not good on a production computer. I did it for two and a half years. Wicked cool, and lots of fun and I had a blast running the system. However it's a timebomb waiting to happen. OSX is simply too structured for the specific hardware lines apple uses. __________________

12-03-2010, 12:09 AM	#62
CheeseFrog Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: AZ Posts: 1,724	nVidia GT330m is the best hardware on the market now? __________________ Cary \| AIM: cheesefrog \| ICQ: 4287002

12-03-2010, 12:16 AM	#64
potter Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Denver Posts: 6,559	1. I said retail, not market. I mean I literally said that you could find better stuff but not retail. 2. I was using the mac pro as the example. Which would be the ATI Radeon HD 5770 with 1GB GDDR5 3. If you want to use the laptop's vid card as the example. Then show me a retail laptop with better, because even the highest end laptops have almost the exact same video card. __________________

12-02-2010, 10:23 PM	#51
Zprogramz Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,360	Absolutely. Your productivity will skyrocket and you will have fun with it too.

12-02-2010, 11:44 PM	#55
mgtarheels Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Daytona Beach, FL Posts: 1,317	An iMac is a PC.

12-03-2010, 12:03 AM	#60
mgtarheels Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Daytona Beach, FL Posts: 1,317	My opinion: Keep your whitebox. If you really want to try OS X, then dual boot. Your whitebox is better than what you can get with Apple. I'd recommend going Ubuntu, though.

12-03-2010, 12:30 AM	#69
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12-03-2010, 12:42 AM	#73
mgtarheels Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Daytona Beach, FL Posts: 1,317	Oh, and pieces of shit HP's come with Intel Xeons. http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en...5-3718663.html

12-03-2010, 01:08 AM	#77
potter Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Denver Posts: 6,559	that's enough computer warage for me. i've done linux, unix, osx, windows, and always owned custom built pc's my whole life (never once owned a retail store bought pc). i'll take my own opinion over anyone on here any day of the week. night ;) __________________

12-03-2010, 06:04 AM	#81
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12-03-2010, 07:26 AM	#82
Supz Arthur Flegenheimer Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New York City Posts: 11,056	I had one for a few weeks, hated it and got rid of it.

12-03-2010, 08:20 AM	#83
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12-03-2010, 06:32 PM	#87
mineistaken See signature :) Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: ICQ 363 097 773 Posts: 29,656	no another pc vs mac thread.......

12-03-2010, 07:02 PM	#89
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12-03-2010, 10:29 PM	#96
2MuchMark Videochat Solutions Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 49,257	iMacs: - Very high res display? Check. (2560x1440) - Amazing display? No really, AMAZING display? Check. - Fast? Check. - Runs everything a PC does? Check. - Runs Windows? Check. (But why would you want to? ) - Built-in 802/11 N WiFi? Check. - Bluetooth? Check! - Whisper Quiet? Check. - Wireless Keyboard and Wireless Mouse standard? Check! - Multi-Touch Mouse? (Think iPhone natural use) Check. - Built in High quality webcam? Check! - Built in Microphone and Speakers (that both sound pretty decent?) Check. There's just nothing to hate and everything to love about these machines. Wireless is particularly nice. I have a single cable coming out of the back of mine, compared to my PC which has 10 Cables. (2 x power, keyboard, mouse, ethernet, monitor data, 2 x speakers, microphone, camera). 10 !! It's time to evolve pc users. Don't resist the temptation. Come on over. It's ok, its ok.. shhhh... shhhhh... there ya go... one of us...one of us... __________________ Custom Coding \| Videochat Solutions \| Age Verification \| IT Help & Support www.2Much.net