Paul Markham

The problems with todays market is piracy, free legal tubes and a recession. The first two won't go away, the second even when it does will the consumer be weaned off paid porn in the right numbers to replace lost income? Some might hope, business isn't built on hopes it's built on solid plans.

One of the problems is our product is easily copied and distributed, legal or illegal and for many too pricey for them to pay for a month to watch only for a few days of that month.

So is an iTunes solution workable in porn?

Not for a VOD type version because it's too high in price for just one scene. And still just a porn scene that is cloned elsewhere for free.

So is a live scene with a girl or couple really going for it, until they shake with pleasure, for 20 minutes to how long they can go an answer?

Let's think about price. Not at $2.00 a minute for many.

So how about $0.10 a minute?

1 girl earning $0.01 a minute per viewer = $0.20 per viewer
100 viewers = $20
100 viewers = $200

And so on.

Will a girl work for $200 for 20 minutes? You bet she will. 3 scenes in a day and she goes home with $600 and a big grin on her face. Her BF might be pissed off though.

Can a site deliver 1,000 viewers ALL THE TIME? No. But could 10 sites or even more or even less?

Would more log in to a site with 2 girls or a couple going for it?

$30.00 = 300 minutes. Or 15 full shows. Would people pay that? I think so and in numbers that won't pay $30 to watch piped dull porn.

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candyflip

I don't even know what you are talking about, especially with reference to iTunes.

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will76

no.......

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Agent 488

wow. i think you have just revolutionized adult online. in this very thread.

Paul Markham

You can play around with the figures it's only there as a guide for an example.

IMO it has to be low priced, that's how iTunes works. It has to be good. And it has to be available 24.7 like live cam is. Because of this it won't work exclusive. Today exclusive is being shot so cheap there's little difference between 1 scene to the next. It's lost it's effect and TGP no longer have the power they had.

Would it be possible to set up something like this using the Bang Bus type theme. A big van or camper van going around picking girls up and the content being beamed live to the servers for people to watch. The cameras would be fixed or used by a cameraman.

Can't be put on a Tube. Viewer knows it's happening live somewhere in the world as he watches. And the actors instead of being stuck in front of a camera all day are on for 20-30 minutes and have to give their all to maintain viewers. And build a following.

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Paul Markham

Someone has to come up with something different or you'll be flipping burgers soon.

After 15 years of online porn what's been the revolution?

In paid porn HD.

In free porn. Piracy, Tubes, Torrents, TGPs, Blogs.

One has increased in size far more than the other.

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candyflip

I like the live content idea.

I don't see how you are equating putting out live sex streams with a content deployment system like iTunes. It almost sounds like you don't even understand iTunes.

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Paul Markham

I thought iTunes sold songs for 10 cents?

That was the idea, bring the price down to win customers back.

So far no one has said why it won't work.

1,000 viewers with the affiliate getting the same as the model could mean a big payday for affiliates as well.

It's about bringing something to the buyer that can't be given away for free and at a price that makes free less attractive.

No I have never bought from iTunes. Buy my music like my DVDs in a store and on disc. LOL

It was about price that I should of said.

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candyflip

So yeah...I was right. You aren't even sure what iTunes is. Pretty much Music or Video on Demand. Songs are .99 and full albums at $9.99 - which yes, is cheaper than you can usually buy it for in the stores.

At the end of the day, iTunes is an On Demand system...which we've already got a number of. Don't want to buy a membership, go buy single clips from Clips4Sale for a few bucks each. They just have a website and not a software client for you to connect to and buy.

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amateurbfs

Exactly and no one is going to be downloading a client to watch porn. Go take a nap Paul.

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candyflip

I don't know about that. I actually think a site like Clips4Sale having a client that people could download and use to search, buy and watch from securely and privately would be a big hit. It might be tough for a start up to pull off, but a existing site like Clips4Sale should be able to pull it off with ease.

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Paul Markham

C4S is just a very short clip for a few bucks, well it was last time I looked. It's also very niche and still just a piped recorded video.

This solution is main stream, cheap (you can adjust the price a bit) sold to 1,000s instead of 1s AND live.

Running it 24/7 with different type scenes. Solo blond, then 2 girl, then Asian, then Big tit. And on another site or the same site different side, running hardcore, anal, straight, teen, MILF.

Are there enough customers for it to able to deliver a choice of scenes at the same time?

Are there enough members who will pay for that rather than piped recorded scenes that are clones and available for free?

The Internet changed the industry 180 degrees. Well not really, we still sell the same product offline sold, except now 100 times the sellers and we can do micro niches more extensively.

Yes you can now chat with a girl you can see rather than one you can talk to on the phone.

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Paul Markham

This idea doesn't need a software client. Just open the site and watch.

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candyflip

They have full length clips at Clips4Sale.

If it doesn't require a client, then why try to bring iTunes into the discussion. iTunes is a client that allows people to buy static content on demand. Which again, this industry already has this (with the browser/site being the "client").

I think you are confusing iTunes and Micropayments. iTunes isn't a micropayments system by any means.

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Bryan G

What do you think clips for sale is?

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Adraco

The above math doesn't seem right, I'd much rather take the $200 for 100 viewers than $20 for the same amount of viewers - more is better.

Other than that, I like your idea. Kind of like myfreecams, everyone is giving a little and it amounts to large numbers in the end.

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Paul Markham

A site for micro niche buyers. Ever tried selling mainstream porn there? That's what VOD or PPV is about. AND TOO EXPENSIVE and still piped recorded dull porn.

Candyflip. So I made a mistake about iTunes. I thought they were a lot cheaper.
Come up with decent ideas, C4S isn't an answer.

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Agent 488

clips4fsale + webcams + bangbus = profit.

memorize that beeaitch.

candyflip

You're thinking a micropayments system for live content. Big difference between that and iTunes. I never said it wasn't a good idea, just that you're confusing things. And as has been pointed out, iTunes is akin to VOD...which we've got plenty of already.

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Grapesoda

yeah and just about everyone want micro payments but the processing isn't there yet

candyflip

The few things that I use that incorporate micropayments get the most money out of me.

And micropayments doesn't have to mean small transactions. Micropayment systems run by Sony and Microsoft sell hundreds of thousands, if not millions of multiple titles via their systems that cost upwards of $14.95.

I'm can't say that I'm not surprised that CCBill hasn't jumped on this. They haven't really done anything innovative in at least 5 years maybe more.

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DamianJ

Let me explain:

"100 videos for $1,000......100 videos for $1,000......19 HD videos for $150......19 HD videos for $150......More Special Offers"

arock10

I have an even better idea, how about a porn site based off of YouTube! That model seems to be working well for them

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Agent 488

if all porn sites were made to look like geocities it would make the ratios like 99 again.

arock10

I have an even better idea, how about a porn site based off of Groupon! Its even newer then itunes and youtube, so its gotta be even better!

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pristine

Paul you are just too old for this business. You aren't even thinking sanely anymore.

Agent 488

surprised no one has done that yet.

alf6300

Leaving aside the sheer 'elegance' of such comment, maybe when someone like Paul makes an effort to come up with some out-of-the-box thinking , is worth listening.

Paul's idea may not be viable/new/sustainable as it is, but if one thing I have learned is that there is often "value in madness". And I have seen many, many times businesses built on some idea that everybody was dismissing as silly or impractical at the beginning.

Of course most mad ideas turn out to be actually mad - but encouraging open thinking will turn out the right ideas. Dismissing ideas too fast, won't help.

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EZRhino

Too bad Apple never made a dime off iTunes. iPod sales is what made iTunes worth it.

MakingItPay

It is usually the older people that dismiss new ideas. I don't know if Paul's idea will work or is viable, or if its crazy. But I like that he had it and shared it. Somebody is going to have new ideas in this business and that person will be very rich for executing them properly. Go Paul!

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alf6300

?
iTunes made $1.8 bn gross in 2009 sales, the last fully accounted year.

While some agreements with labels are not fully disclosed, it's hard to imagine that it's anything other than an awesomely profitable business.

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grumpy

This is the reason GFY isnt what it use to be.
Paul makes a effort, puts it here to discuss and right away some ass clowns who cant even scratch there own ass start bashing him. GFY

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Paul Markham

Even Damian gets it. If you make it cheap enough people will buy it.

Thanks Damian for supporting me.

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SZNY

I agree, the concept is good but it all depends on mass traffic and deploying your stuff on the web and handheld devices.

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Paul Markham

Thanks guys.

So far how have paysites progressed from 1995? They went from largely images sites to very small videos and as hosting and speeds got better the size of the videos improved. In the early days everyone was worried about content that could be delivered on a dial up connection. Later as hosting and BW got cheaper HD came into being and sites went to HD.

So all the innovation of the paid model was zero. All they did was based on the speed of connections and hosting costs improving. They're still trying to sell pre-recorded content at largely the same price as they did 15 years ago. Yes sites have got bigger and more numerous but basically it's the same model that was being sold 15 years ago at a similar price. The innovation in online porn has been on the part OUTSIDE the members area. The advances in ways to deliver free porn to the consumer have increased and got better over the years. And paysites have suffered.

So why are some people flaming me and comparing this idea to C4S which it's nothing like?

Then it hit me. They are thinking micro payments might mean micro earnings for affiliates. It might even reduce the need for affiliates.

Could a system like this be built? Yes it's just an adaption of web cams.

Can it be billed? Yes, it's 1 lump payment, could be $1 for one show, or $??? for as long as ???? At the end of the billing period the member has chosen he pays more or leaves.

Can models be found? To right they can. A good girl earning a decent amount per show on her own performance will have them lining up outside the door.

WILL IT APPEAL TO SURFERS?This is the big one. Will surfers prefer a real micro payment site of live good performances over a site with pre recorded scenes or often very badly faked porn?

And that's the big question. How many will watch it and pay?

1,000 every 20 minutes = 3,000 an hour
= 72,000 a day.

Say the same guys logging in once a week.

72,000 X 7 = 504,000

Could 10 sites with 50,400 members feeding into the same plug in provide the membership?
Could Manwin with their Tube traffic do it? Only if they convert 1-40

As I said the figures are purely to explain the idea. It could be the cost per minute is 15 cents, the members might check in twice a week, the shows might go on for 30 minutes. Feed those figures into the statistics and you come out with a very different figure.

If for instance the girl earns $200 for 20 minutes and the system can be built by members on it's popularity to run 24/7 then what will be left?

$200 for the girl = $1800 left or $5,400 per hour $129,600 per day. $47,304,000 per year to run the site and provide a profit.

The idea hangs on the surfers willingness to buy and stay buying. Like every thing we now sell. Will a surfer think $2 for a good live show when he wants to watch is better than a free recorded show on a Tube or $30 a month for recorded videos?

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Agent 488

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DamianJ

I've never said that. As you know from your failed $5 sites, price isn't a guiding factor in porn.

It's cool, Pizzle Marizzle. I've sussed you now.

You start threads where you are deliberately stupid or deliberately contentious and then post things people don't say in the thread in order to goad them into replying - just as you have with me here.

It's a clever MO for a while, but is painfully obvious to me now.

Nice one, you had me fooled for a while!

Paul Markham

How do you know they failed?

My CMS wasn't capable of doing it and that was why we never pursued it. When we got one that could we were busy doing Astral Blue. But the $5 sites convert very well on very little traffic.

Maybe if I come out of retirement I might do some more.

Price isn't a guiding factor in porn. Which is why everyone wants to pay and no one wants free.

From the marketing genius of www.Pornbeer.com

Now there's a failed site.

As per usual the younger dynamic thinkers of GFY come up with nothing. Takes an old guy who spends hours on his sofa to think up something.

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