Forbes article "The Porn Convention" with Seymour Butts, RealTouch, and the decline of the biz - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

JFK · 08-06-2012, 04:32 PM

fitty declines up your Butts

Barefootsies · 08-06-2012, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

its pointless to discuss this any further

Sadly.... that is how most of those discussions end up. You have to learn to not take the bait.

MaDalton · 08-06-2012, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Sadly.... that is how most of those discussions end up. You have to learn to not take the bait.

i guess so

peterk · 08-06-2012, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

A lot of the 30-40 year old guys here will be telling a similar story in 2030, about the days when someone bought something porn related. LOL

you will be way gone by then.

Bill8 · 08-06-2012, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

www.saboom.com - for example

i know our invoices and we are one of three teams. and i heard a bit about the technology behind it

they spent more on that site than most programs make in their lifetime. and they keep shooting and expanding, great new features will come later this year/next year

www.partner-cash.net

well, that is kinda cool.

seems odd tho that it's not more widely known. You'd think there'd have been many posts about it.

it makes me wonder if what I suggested, about gfy being less relevant in an era of content<=>tubes, applies to the "new paysites" and the "tube era".

who are the people behind it?

I note what you say about the cost of developing it - is that the new model now? High development costs or don't come to the table?

pretty much the opposite of the earlier paysite generations.

You have to admit tho that's a very unique and different site. It's almost not a paysite at all anymore. So, as an example, it almost proves the idea that paysites are dying en masse.

I exected you to suggest small deeply niched paysite projects, with own-shot content and minimal development costs.

peterk · 08-06-2012, 04:55 PM

tube sites can not sustain all porn companies but it can keep some companies going that sold out to manwin and the other thevies early on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Far-L

Another "tubes" are to blame sob story from porn valley. The LA river runs deep with those tears.

Journalists love the angle... the regicide of former kings of the industry, brought low by the tides of change.

One word.

Yawn.

Should've got a bigger boat when the sharks came swimming by... If you wanted to stay afloat.

MaDalton · 08-06-2012, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill8

well, that is kinda cool.

seems odd tho that it's not more widely known. You'd think there'd have been many posts about it.

it makes me wonder if what I suggested, about gfy being less relevant in an era of content<=>tubes, applies to the "new paysites" and the "tube era".

who are the people behind it?

I note what you say about the cost of developing it - is that the new model now? High development costs or don't come to the table?

pretty much the opposite of the earlier paysite generations.

You have to admit tho that's a very unique and different site. It's almost not a paysite at all anymore. So, as an example, it almost proves the idea that paysites are dying en masse.

I exected you to suggest small deeply niched paysite projects, with own-shot content and minimal development costs.

it actually makes me wonder if board advertising and show sponsoring is worth the money when you havent heard about it yet

i know there were banners on GFY and they sponsored almost every show over the last 2 years. JFK is endorsed by them too.

Partnercash is an austrian company that is probably the largest in the german language market. they are in the biz since more than 10 years and have like 130-150 employees

and the idea behind Saboom was to create something that is not just regular video porn that can be downloaded and then spread around for free. and it seems to work well, even more since they have the girls from the videos also on live cams

but this is a special case - there are max. 3-4 companies in this biz who have the guts and the financials to pull something like this off.

maybe a few more who could afford it - but certainly not a lot who have the balls to develop something totally new like this without any guarantee that it will make even 5 bucks back

but they're pretty smart guys

madko · 08-06-2012, 05:24 PM

Porn will never die!!!! Every second a new DICK owner is born .. It's just a mater of finding a way to his CC

Bill8 · 08-06-2012, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

it actually makes me wonder if board advertising and show sponsoring is worth the money when you havent heard about it yet

i know there were banners on GFY and they sponsored almost every show over the last 2 years. JFK is endorsed by them too.

Partnercash is an austrian company that is probably the largest in the german language market. they are in the biz since more than 10 years and have like 130-150 employees

and the idea behind Saboom was to create something that is not just regular video porn that can be downloaded and then spread around for free. and it seems to work well, even more since they have the girls from the videos also on live cams

but this is a special case - there are max. 3-4 companies in this biz who have the guts and the financials to pull something like this off.

maybe a few more who could afford it - but certainly not a lot who have the balls to develop something totally new like this without any guarantee that it will make even 5 bucks back

but they're pretty smart guys

actually, I intentionally ignore the banners and skins here, i only pay attantion to the posts and the discussions, with sigs turned off - and no, I had not seen anything about it in the posts and discussions that grabbed my attention enough to remember it.

which does strike me as odd too, because I come here to scan for industry news, especially sponsor news.

you would think that a new concept paysite would have everyone comparing everything to it, and every third thread about the biz would have a post that mentioned it. I'll have to check and see if I was missing it, and everyone else knew.

It does look a lot like the kind of thing that everyone has been saying would likely be the next wave.

Why isn't everyone copying it? Or fake copying it?

Are there other examples of "next wave" sponsors at work anywhere?

Or are these german guys - with one site in their partner cash lineup - the only folks doing this?

I'm not sure the tour is grabbing me, but, still, it's interesting. I'll have to look around and see where they are advertising and who is promoting them.

CarlosTheGaucho · 08-06-2012, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill8

actually, I intentionally ignore the banners and skins here, i only pay attantion to the posts and the discussions, with sigs turned off - and no, I had not seen anything about it in the posts and discussions that grabbed my attention enough to remember it.

which does strike me as odd too, because I come here to scan for industry news, especially sponsor news.

you would think that a new concept paysite would have everyone comparing everything to it, and every third thread about the biz would have a post that mentioned it. I'll have to check and see if I was missing it, and everyone else knew.

It does look a lot like the kind of thing that everyone has been saying would likely be the next wave.

Why isn't everyone copying it? Or fake copying it?

Are there other examples of "next wave" sponsors at work anywhere?

Or are these german guys - with one site in their partner cash lineup - the only folks doing this?

I'm not sure the tour is grabbing me, but, still, it's interesting. I'll have to look around and see where they are advertising and who is promoting them.

I wonder if it's also a case of so many bull... companies buying advertising all over the place in the past that makes people with a track record in online adult indifferent to it.

Not saying that it shouldn't be a part of the marketing mix but there needs to be more to it.

Speaking from my own experience, working for more than four years with a company that pretty much never bought any advertising (in fact I was pretty much the only go to guy) - people knew me from boards, my tradeshow presence, parties hosted in Prague and press - both B2B and mainstream.

However, the mantra spread very well and starting after say one and a half year, there were plenty of people in the know, that already knew the concept and accepted it in a positive manner.

After two years plus there started invites from the biggest companies at that time to talk.

What I found out is that a constant presence on tradeshows and boards alike is a must, your name needs to be seen regularly and you need to regularly contribute to the community to get accepted.

It happened many times that somebody got back to me after say two years and we eventually did something together, that's how it should be, but it takes a lot of effort to get there - buying banners and sponsorship packages alone won't cut it.

Btw. do get in touch with me if you interested in new things, there may be a few to share off the boards.

Bill8 · 08-07-2012, 12:14 AM

I'm not sure if I love the saboom affiliate resources, or hate them. It's different, and some is incredibly clever. Some of the ideas seem brilliant in concept, but I'm not sold on the execution.

So far the girls are not grabbing me. They feel like hardened european porn actresses, a little the worse for wear, zero sense of innocence about to be exploited.

Not all the girls, some in the promo vids are cute - once you figure out how to see the promo vids lol.

Very general hardcore, almost no nicheing at all - its implied that niches are available, but, the promo material is not niched, and as far as I can tell the tour is generic hardcore..

It feels very german - and not in the good german way. I know, they are austrians, but the whole thing still has very much that german feel.

Potential brilliance, not yet fully realized.

Paul Markham · 08-07-2012, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

www.saboom.com - for example

i know our invoices and we are one of three teams. and i heard a bit about the technology behind it

they spent more on that site than most programs make in their lifetime. and they keep shooting and expanding, great new features will come later this year/next year

www.partner-cash.net

You're confusing Content of a site with recorded porn. The content is the whole product the member buys. I'll bet money www.saboom.com never spend $2,000 a scene and one update a month for a scene.

Even that model shows your thinking. A good video scene on DVD would pay far above $2,000 a scene to the producer. Magazine set, a lot more as well. So why should someone who can earn $3,000 a scene shoot for $2,000 BG will get some far more.

Would you shoot solo girl for $150 a 40 minute scene? That's my point.

I'm done discussing this with you because you are debating for the point of it. We all work for the best pay possible.

Paul Markham · 08-07-2012, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill8

It's kind of a shame this devolved into more shooter wars.

These discussions tend to collapse into certain types of dead ends, and they don't necessarily have to do so.

Does anybody know if the processors are processing more money or less money nowadays, in the tube era?

And again, I wanna ask if anybody can hold up as an example NEW paysites that are thriving under the current conditions?

We all know about manwin, and the older companies like say pinkvisual, kink, and dogfart that are hanging on. Are the last three making the same money, more money, or less money these days, do you think? (looks like less, to me.)

The chief characteristic of all the survivors is they shoot some of their own content (or at least are producing it).

so, what are the new paysites, the ones that have emerged in the last 3 years are are successful under the tubes?

The processors will never tell us and all we can do is go by what we see. And that's people closing down or cutting back. Obviously the massive migration of traffic to Tubes sites wasn't new traffic. It probably was people who used to buy. We know the conversion ratios on Tubes suck. Traffic to sales, not clicks.

Saboom is interesting and until I see the actual content rather the concept I can't say more. It could be great, or could be a new way of delivering the same tired old potted porn scenes. Cocks don't get erect on that, curiosity will get traffic.

Showing the product to affiliates doesn't completely solve the situation of making the site work for the members. That's one of the illusions online porn has held for years. Maybe this is the biggest change online has made to porn ever.

pre Internet If you wanted to sell porn to consumers, you probably needed a shop premises that costs per sq ft and location. Plus all the costs of running a shop. Shelf space was limited, therefore only products that sold were stocked. These were more often than not bought not on the cover, they were bought on the quality of the previous editions bought.

Internet. If you want to sell porn all you need is a computer and Internet connection.

The level of skills needed are probably more for online selling. The level of investment is definitely higher for offline selling. So we've had 12+ years of "throw mud at the wall and see if any sticks" by selling to mud slingers. Now the wall is covered in mud and better value than paying for porn.

Please no nit picking my terminology, we all know what I mean.

Paul Markham · 08-07-2012, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madko

Porn will never die!!!! Every second a new DICK owner is born .. It's just a mater of finding a way to his CC

Agree. Just the manner of consumption is changing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill8

Are there other examples of "next wave" sponsors at work anywhere?

We don't need a new wave of sponsors, we need a new wave of porn sites with good old steamy porn. Sponsors don't solve the problems of members needs if the porn is the same old tired stuff we've seen over and over again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

Speaking from my own experience, working for more than four years with a company that pretty much never bought any advertising (in fact I was pretty much the only go to guy) - people knew me from boards, my tradeshow presence, parties hosted in Prague and press - both B2B and mainstream.

You worked for someone who really did something different. The surprising thing is why didn't others pick up the idea? Other than the cost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill8

I'm not sure if I love the saboom affiliate resources, or hate them. It's different, and some is incredibly clever. Some of the ideas seem brilliant in concept, but I'm not sold on the execution.

So far the girls are not grabbing me. They feel like hardened european porn actresses, a little the worse for wear, zero sense of innocence about to be exploited.

The nail gets hit on the head. Here's the problem. I know from experience shooting this type of porn is amazingly difficult and almost impossible to maintain the heat on set. It's stop start all the time and actors know it and don't do anything other than a canned performance.

Putting them ad their partners into the Big Sister concept, would of been a winner. The illusion of a guy walking into a brothel and fucking some hot horny girl for free is all you need. Real hot fucking, that can be you. Is the fantasy.

All it needs is some good hard real fucking to make porn. What people will pay for it is the problem, free Tube delivery or membership or C4S.

phil-flash · 08-07-2012, 01:34 AM

I want to drop my opinion into this conversation

I believe that the economy is enemy number one...

Enemy number two is the lack of constraint by tube owners. If you ask me... tube sites are almost as bad as the file locker sites.

Tube sites are using producers content... full length movies even to draw traffic... (what male who wants to jerk off to any and all fantasies and fetishes would not go to a tube site to see this stuff for FREE???

So now what happens... the chicken choking surfer finishes off... and he closes his browser. But wait... WTF... there are 4 pop up windows sitting there. Three to jasmine whatever cam site and another is a white label to streamate cams.

Ok... why do people do what they do? To answer the question... you must follow the money. So the tube sites are making their money from cam sites and the plethora of cam site pop ups they use.

Back to the chicken choker... he sees a girl he likes on the cam pop up window... he decides... why not and signs up. Tube site makes money... chicken choker just jerked off to a producers full length movie... and the poor producer did not even get a dime from that! (who even sees the teeny tiny little link back to the site from which the video came... everything is animated flash video and shit blinking at you from every angle)

So where is the money??? It's lost to the economy, file lockers, and tube sites.

The porn surfing/interested people, now view porn as something they deserve to get for free... And that is not the fault of the producers. Unless of course... the producers stopped allowing tube sites to promote full videos.

Promotion is a simple thing... the key to promoting is to tease and entice your potential customer.

Promotion is NOT, giving tons of content away for free.

I remember when I used to rent adult movies 10 plus years ago before I started my online company. I loved to look at all of the thumbnails on the back of DVD covers. You could imagine that the hot girl that made you pick the DVD up off of the shelf was a great performer or whatever you wanted to think. The thumbnails on the back of those friggin DVD covers got me to rent or NOT.

If everyone could just realize that content is the gold... and should be kept in the safe (members area), and used or only allowed specific promo material... then this conversation would not exist.

When is the last time that you saw a book writer give his book away to the masses?

When is the last time you saw the Hollywood movie industry give a movie away at your local theater?

When was the last time that Topps Baseball Card company gave away full sets of cards to people?

When is the last time that a prostitute gave away an intentionally free blow job?

Producers in this industry are just as important as the traffic generators. There could not be one without the other.

Seems to me... that the tube sites are biting the hand that fed them...

Porn used to be really cool when you FINALLY found something that you were looking for. Now you can find a skinny Asian girl taking two black dicks, one white dick, juggling cucumbers with her toes... all the while fingering herself in the ass videos for FREE.

The power lies in the producers hands IMO. But it would take an effort from the big dogs to get the tube sites cleaned up and get content back where it belongs... in the goddam members area...

MaDalton · 08-07-2012, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

You're confusing Content of a site with recorded porn. The content is the whole product the member buys. I'll bet money www.saboom.com never spend $2,000 a scene and one update a month for a scene.

Even that model shows your thinking. A good video scene on DVD would pay far above $2,000 a scene to the producer. Magazine set, a lot more as well. So why should someone who can earn $3,000 a scene shoot for $2,000 BG will get some far more.

Would you shoot solo girl for $150 a 40 minute scene? That's my point.

I'm done discussing this with you because you are debating for the point of it. We all work for the best pay possible.

blablabla...

MaDalton · 08-07-2012, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill8

I'm not sure if I love the saboom affiliate resources, or hate them. It's different, and some is incredibly clever. Some of the ideas seem brilliant in concept, but I'm not sold on the execution.

So far the girls are not grabbing me. They feel like hardened european porn actresses, a little the worse for wear, zero sense of innocence about to be exploited.

Not all the girls, some in the promo vids are cute - once you figure out how to see the promo vids lol.

Very general hardcore, almost no nicheing at all - its implied that niches are available, but, the promo material is not niched, and as far as I can tell the tour is generic hardcore..

It feels very german - and not in the good german way. I know, they are austrians, but the whole thing still has very much that german feel.

Potential brilliance, not yet fully realized.

i very much appreciate your opinion and will forward this to the people in charge

just keep in mind: no one has done a site like this before, so it's still a bit trial and error. today it already looks VERY different to 2 years ago when i saw the first beta

Paul Markham · 08-07-2012, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil-flash

I want to drop my opinion into this conversation

I believe that the economy is enemy number one...

Do you think it will return to pre recession levels when the recession ends?

Quote:

Enemy number two is the lack of constraint by tube owners. If you ask me... tube sites are almost as bad as the file locker sites.

Tube sites are using producers content... full length movies even to draw traffic... (what male who wants to jerk off to any and all fantasies and fetishes would not go to a tube site to see this stuff for FREE???

I just label it as FREE.

Quote:

Promotion is a simple thing... the key to promoting is to tease and entice your potential customer.

Promotion is NOT, giving tons of content away for free.

Bit late now.

Quote:

The power lies in the producers hands IMO. But it would take an effort from the big dogs to get the tube sites cleaned up and get content back where it belongs... in the goddam members area...

Assuming the big dogs aren't owning Tubes and Tubes wouldn't be full of the little dogs content.

Then there's the piracy problem.

The only thing that will save porn today are a lot of laws that are very strictly applied. Or getting it offline. There must be a return to having to pay for porn if it's ever to return to the good old days.

bronco67 · 08-07-2012, 06:19 AM

I think the whole virtual real touch sex thing is going to mirror the video game industry. Once the Wii came out, Microsoft and Sony had to make their own "move" controllers -- and it's died already.

Can anyone with a Wii say they still play it? I've had PS3 Move for a year and have only played it once. Anyone I know with Kinect thinks its too much of a pain in the ass to set up and play.

Does anyone want to get all this electronic gear ready when they want to jerk off?

CarlosTheGaucho · 08-07-2012, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill8

I'm not sure if I love the saboom affiliate resources, or hate them. It's different, and some is incredibly clever. Some of the ideas seem brilliant in concept, but I'm not sold on the execution.

So far the girls are not grabbing me. They feel like hardened european porn actresses, a little the worse for wear, zero sense of innocence about to be exploited.

Not all the girls, some in the promo vids are cute - once you figure out how to see the promo vids lol.

Very general hardcore, almost no nicheing at all - its implied that niches are available, but, the promo material is not niched, and as far as I can tell the tour is generic hardcore..

It feels very german - and not in the good german way. I know, they are austrians, but the whole thing still has very much that german feel.

Potential brilliance, not yet fully realized.

What MaDalton said, you can never start anything to be perfect, however thanks for the constructive feedback. I'm sure this company knows how to listen to their target audience, no matter if its affiliates or customers.

CarlosTheGaucho · 08-07-2012, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronco67

I think the whole virtual real touch sex thing is going to mirror the video game industry. Once the Wii came out, Microsoft and Sony had to make their own "move" controllers -- and it's died already.

Can anyone with a Wii say they still play it? I've had PS3 Move for a year and have only played it once. Anyone I know with Kinect thinks its too much of a pain in the ass to set up and play.

Does anyone want to get all this electronic gear ready when they want to jerk off?

Well, I was present at one of the first product demonstrations at the Internext 09 I guess? perhaps even 08 not sure now.

It is indeed a brilliant product, in the way it can satisfy its customer, however, the marketing, the price etc. around may not be exactly the best match. The price is quite high and it's not as easy to persuade someone to use it unless he actually touches it.

RealTouch..

Bill8 · 08-07-2012, 01:56 PM

Well, I am going to throw a little counterpoint into this discussion.

The saboom project is interesting, sure. Definitely a possible future path for the industry.

But, I just asked around, and despite those guys advertising, so far nobody I asked had heard of it. Not one "yeah sure I heard of it" yet. I got more inquiries out there, we shall see who the first person is who says "oh yeah that site...".

I'm asking other affiliates and traffic people.

So, I don't think it's got a lot of market penetration yet. It's not "thriving in the new era", and that's what I asked for - examples of new paysites thriving in the new era.

---

So, is manwin the only company thriving in the current era?

Bill8 · 08-07-2012, 02:28 PM

ahhhh - got an "I've heard of it, at the shows.".

Bill8 · 08-07-2012, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil-flash

The power lies in the producers hands IMO. But it would take an effort from the big dogs to get the tube sites cleaned up and get content back where it belongs... in the goddam members area...

yeah, everybody knows this.

but, nobody believes it's likely.

it's like the stuff Paul says. It's not that it's not true, in it's context; it's just that it's essentially un-actionable, and therefore not very useful for solving the current problems, and making money now.

anything that requires that people in the biz cooperate is dead in the water, the rewards for cheating are too great.

only solutions based on short term self-interest in a rapidly stratifying environment have a decent chance of working.

that means death for most.

Paul Markham · 08-08-2012, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill8

it's like the stuff Paul says. It's not that it's not true, in it's context; it's just that it's essentially un-actionable, and therefore not very useful for solving the current problems, and making money now.

anything that requires that people in the biz cooperate is dead in the water, the rewards for cheating are too great.

only solutions based on short term self-interest in a rapidly stratifying environment have a decent chance of working.

that means death for most.

The business has changed so much and so many people at the product end, still think and act as if it hasn't.

Maybe as many as 1,999 consumers out of 2,000 are happy to get off to a free Tube or pirated porn video. HD doesn't matter a jog to the Tube viewers. The numbers might be wrong. So building a market out of 1 in 2,000 is very very tough. Building a business is a nightmare.

In general EU models tend to be experience and jaded. It's harder to get them really excited in doing something where excitement is essential. This I suspect is the same for US models. There are exceptions, yet still exceptions.

Product budgets are generally tight.

The consumer has so many options. He's saturated with them, very jaded and the culture of "why pay for porn" doesn't help.

I believe there are solutions to help a few a bit. Whether or not they would be profitable today is a gamble. So we're left with doing the same things over and over again, or going to niches which are not saturated in the free porn world, or trying what Saboom and the "Met-Art" level are doing. Whether these sections can generate a decent long term profit is to be decided. more people joining the band won't help anyone.

The huge incomes of days gone by are gone. What ever you say those days were.

Paul Markham · 08-08-2012, 02:48 AM

For those without limitless cash to try something ground breaking. Look at this site.

http://theclassicporn.com/index.html

There are loads of archives out there of porn prior digital days. I know from www.astral-blue.com retro converts and retains. Why is obvious. So if someone does the research sourcing studios with archives, all they need to do is convert the edited masters to digital.

There's hairy pussy, stars from long ago and for some a far hotter product.

Is this a way to make money without try to find a new boat that's already over loaded with passengers? Yes I know there are retro sites, can there be a few more?

Don't see a lot of EU stuff. There were some awesome girls around then.

Paul Markham · 08-08-2012, 04:20 AM

What online porn lacks is innovation. A brothel owner thought of combining a brothel with a cam site and Big Sister was born. Has anyone taken the idea and enlarged or copied it?

So here's an idea for people to take, refine and of course improve.

Swingers Parties.

A weekly or can be increased swingers party. Not your normal middle age over weight swingers. The type of swingers my first wife and I were meeting in the late 70s and 80s. Attractive couples from 18 to 40. That was the first place I met Ben Dover. I thought he was killing some girl. When I saw the size of him, I new how.

It can be real swingers if they fit the bill or couples who are happy to fuck each other for real on live cams.

Have a few well placed cams set up and some cameramen recording the whole thing for the site, DVD and cable sales. The key is simple, You to can be here. Any couple who wants to turn up needs to fill in a form. Any single girl who wants to come, can do so. She might need paying.

It's real, it happens, you can be there and the action is real people fucking their brains out.

Work out the costs and technical aspects. Performers might want some money, if money is the problem. shame on the industry.

08-06-2012, 04:32 PM	#51
JFK FUBAR the ORIGINATOR Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: FUBARLAND Posts: 67,374	fitty declines up your Butts __________________ FUBAR Webmasters - The FUBAR Times - FUBAR Webmasters Mobile - FUBARTV.XXX For promo opps contact jfk at fubarwebmasters dot com

08-06-2012, 05:24 PM	#58
madko Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 566	Porn will never die!!!! Every second a new DICK owner is born .. It's just a mater of finding a way to his CC __________________ icq:222235540 skype:madko.d email: madkodesign at gmail dot com ------------------------------------

08-07-2012, 01:34 AM	#65
phil-flash Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 649	I want to drop my opinion into this conversation I believe that the economy is enemy number one... Enemy number two is the lack of constraint by tube owners. If you ask me... tube sites are almost as bad as the file locker sites. Tube sites are using producers content... full length movies even to draw traffic... (what male who wants to jerk off to any and all fantasies and fetishes would not go to a tube site to see this stuff for FREE??? So now what happens... the chicken choking surfer finishes off... and he closes his browser. But wait... WTF... there are 4 pop up windows sitting there. Three to jasmine whatever cam site and another is a white label to streamate cams. Ok... why do people do what they do? To answer the question... you must follow the money. So the tube sites are making their money from cam sites and the plethora of cam site pop ups they use. Back to the chicken choker... he sees a girl he likes on the cam pop up window... he decides... why not and signs up. Tube site makes money... chicken choker just jerked off to a producers full length movie... and the poor producer did not even get a dime from that! (who even sees the teeny tiny little link back to the site from which the video came... everything is animated flash video and shit blinking at you from every angle) So where is the money??? It's lost to the economy, file lockers, and tube sites. The porn surfing/interested people, now view porn as something they deserve to get for free... And that is not the fault of the producers. Unless of course... the producers stopped allowing tube sites to promote full videos. Promotion is a simple thing... the key to promoting is to tease and entice your potential customer. Promotion is NOT, giving tons of content away for free. I remember when I used to rent adult movies 10 plus years ago before I started my online company. I loved to look at all of the thumbnails on the back of DVD covers. You could imagine that the hot girl that made you pick the DVD up off of the shelf was a great performer or whatever you wanted to think. The thumbnails on the back of those friggin DVD covers got me to rent or NOT. If everyone could just realize that content is the gold... and should be kept in the safe (members area), and used or only allowed specific promo material... then this conversation would not exist. When is the last time that you saw a book writer give his book away to the masses? When is the last time you saw the Hollywood movie industry give a movie away at your local theater? When was the last time that Topps Baseball Card company gave away full sets of cards to people? When is the last time that a prostitute gave away an intentionally free blow job? Producers in this industry are just as important as the traffic generators. There could not be one without the other. Seems to me... that the tube sites are biting the hand that fed them... Porn used to be really cool when you FINALLY found something that you were looking for. Now you can find a skinny Asian girl taking two black dicks, one white dick, juggling cucumbers with her toes... all the while fingering herself in the ass videos for FREE. The power lies in the producers hands IMO. But it would take an effort from the big dogs to get the tube sites cleaned up and get content back where it belongs... in the goddam members area... __________________ phil-flash Cash - Gallery Exporter

08-07-2012, 06:19 AM	#69
bronco67 Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 29,032	I think the whole virtual real touch sex thing is going to mirror the video game industry. Once the Wii came out, Microsoft and Sony had to make their own "move" controllers -- and it's died already. Can anyone with a Wii say they still play it? I've had PS3 Move for a year and have only played it once. Anyone I know with Kinect thinks its too much of a pain in the ass to set up and play. Does anyone want to get all this electronic gear ready when they want to jerk off? __________________

08-08-2012, 02:48 AM	#76
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	For those without limitless cash to try something ground breaking. Look at this site. http://theclassicporn.com/index.html There are loads of archives out there of porn prior digital days. I know from www.astral-blue.com retro converts and retains. Why is obvious. So if someone does the research sourcing studios with archives, all they need to do is convert the edited masters to digital. There's hairy pussy, stars from long ago and for some a far hotter product. Is this a way to make money without try to find a new boat that's already over loaded with passengers? Yes I know there are retro sites, can there be a few more? Don't see a lot of EU stuff. There were some awesome girls around then. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

08-07-2012, 12:14 AM	#61
Bill8 Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 1,901	I'm not sure if I love the saboom affiliate resources, or hate them. It's different, and some is incredibly clever. Some of the ideas seem brilliant in concept, but I'm not sold on the execution. So far the girls are not grabbing me. They feel like hardened european porn actresses, a little the worse for wear, zero sense of innocence about to be exploited. Not all the girls, some in the promo vids are cute - once you figure out how to see the promo vids lol. Very general hardcore, almost no nicheing at all - its implied that niches are available, but, the promo material is not niched, and as far as I can tell the tour is generic hardcore.. It feels very german - and not in the good german way. I know, they are austrians, but the whole thing still has very much that german feel. Potential brilliance, not yet fully realized.

08-07-2012, 01:56 PM	#72
Bill8 Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 1,901	Well, I am going to throw a little counterpoint into this discussion. The saboom project is interesting, sure. Definitely a possible future path for the industry. But, I just asked around, and despite those guys advertising, so far nobody I asked had heard of it. Not one "yeah sure I heard of it" yet. I got more inquiries out there, we shall see who the first person is who says "oh yeah that site...". I'm asking other affiliates and traffic people. So, I don't think it's got a lot of market penetration yet. It's not "thriving in the new era", and that's what I asked for - examples of new paysites thriving in the new era. --- So, is manwin the only company thriving in the current era?

08-07-2012, 02:28 PM	#73
Bill8 Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 1,901	ahhhh - got an "I've heard of it, at the shows.".

08-08-2012, 04:20 AM	#77
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	What online porn lacks is innovation. A brothel owner thought of combining a brothel with a cam site and Big Sister was born. Has anyone taken the idea and enlarged or copied it? So here's an idea for people to take, refine and of course improve. Swingers Parties. A weekly or can be increased swingers party. Not your normal middle age over weight swingers. The type of swingers my first wife and I were meeting in the late 70s and 80s. Attractive couples from 18 to 40. That was the first place I met Ben Dover. I thought he was killing some girl. When I saw the size of him, I new how. It can be real swingers if they fit the bill or couples who are happy to fuck each other for real on live cams. Have a few well placed cams set up and some cameramen recording the whole thing for the site, DVD and cable sales. The key is simple, You to can be here. Any couple who wants to turn up needs to fill in a form. Any single girl who wants to come, can do so. She might need paying. It's real, it happens, you can be there and the action is real people fucking their brains out. Work out the costs and technical aspects. Performers might want some money, if money is the problem. shame on the industry. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70