Good that Obama agrees with Minte for once. - GoFuckYourself.com

TheSquealer · 10-24-2012, 07:46 PM

Seems he feels there's a correlation between effective corporate tax rates and job creation. Lower corporate taxes = more jobs. But hey, what does he know anyway?

http://www.businessinsider.com/obama...s-that-hire-11

http://www.businessinsider.com/obama...s-that-hire-11

mce · 10-24-2012, 07:54 PM

Anyone want to guess what % of people on this forum are actually registered to vote AND will be voting?

tony286 · 10-24-2012, 08:00 PM

Close to no one pays 35 percent. So its not going to change shit. Also as long u can get workers for a dollar an hr and they have government health care. Those jobs ain't coming back. I think 7 percent unemployment is going to be the new normal.

SmutHammer · 10-24-2012, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mce

Anyone want to guess what % of people on this forum are actually registered to vote AND will be voting?

I did and will.

Did you guys know Obama reduced our nuclear power. Sorry just watched that 2016 movie and some things in it. well I hope are not true...

tony286 · 10-24-2012, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Hammer

I did and will.

Did you guys know Obama reduced our nuclear power. Sorry just watched that 2016 movie and some things in it. well I hope are not true...

Dude if they said he was the devil and Hitlers black clone. You would believe it. I like u but u hate Obama so u believe all the bullshit they throw.

TheSquealer · 10-24-2012, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

Close to no one pays 35 percent. So its not going to change shit. Also as long u can get workers for a dollar an hr and they have government health care. Those jobs ain't coming back. I think 7 percent unemployment is going to be the new normal.

Why do you think he wants to lower taxes with the stated purpose of creating jobs? I thought there was no correlation to job creation and tax rates and corporations need to pay more?

SmutHammer · 10-24-2012, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

Dude if they said he was the devil and Hitlers black clone. You would believe it. I like u but u hate Obama so u believe all the bullshit they throw.

No sir you misunderstand. I don't believe everything I hear. I do not hate Obama, I admit he has done some good. I just wish the bad did not out weigh it. I also wish people were not so blind about everything going on, Look it up, you can even find video on the net where the words come right out of Obama's own mouth. Cutting military spending is one thing, Removing our nuclear power is totally different.

Edit: I'm glad you don't hold a grudge on political differences

spazlabz · 10-25-2012, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

Why do you think he wants to lower taxes with the stated purpose of creating jobs? I thought there was no correlation to job creation and tax rates and corporations need to pay more?

don't be intentionally obtuse. He is not talking about lower taxes on corporations just for the hell of it and this will create new jobs... That is a fallacy plain and simple. The point is giving tax breaks to companies who actually create jobs in the US. Do you see the difference?

One philosophy is give companies huge tax breaks and they will miraculously shit jobs for Americans all over the place. Complete fantasy.

What the administration is talking about is providing tax breaks for companies AFTER they have created actual jobs here in the US.

I cannot stand Obama for a lot of different reasons than the usual opinions expressed here but I happen to agree strongly with this idea. I have no problem giving substantial tax breaks to any company that creates jobs here and even bigger breaks to ones that offer a decent benefits package to their employees. Look if a company creates good paying, living wage jobs in the US then I dont have any problem kissing their asses until they glow like a runway light. However the trend appears to be 'big US company gets tax breaks and outsources overseas'.

I'll go one step further and say that any company that manufactures here should pay no corporate income tax as long as 100% of their goods are manufactured here in the US. So companies that purchase 'parts' from overseas manufacturers would not get this 100% tax break

TheSquealer · 10-25-2012, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spazlabz

don't be intentionally obtuse. He is not talking about lower taxes on corporations just for the hell of it and this will create new jobs... That is a fallacy plain and simple. The point is giving tax breaks to companies who actually create jobs in the US. Do you see the difference?

One philosophy is give companies huge tax breaks and they will miraculously shit jobs for Americans all over the place. Complete fantasy.

What the administration is talking about is providing tax breaks for companies AFTER they have created actual jobs here in the US.

HUh? Fantasy?

Obama, according to this "cut taxes for small businesses 18 times" and he intends more cuts as part of a plan for a second term.

http://images.politico.com/global/20...et1_part3.html

I thought there was no relationship between lowering taxes and the growth of business and job creation?

I mean, sounds a lot like Reagan to me.

The message seems pretty clear "lower the tax burden on business and business/jobs grow".

Reagan would be very proud of Democrats today.

Here is a good quote from that page:

"With tax incentives for hiring and growth and greater
access to capital, especially for women-owned
businesses, more Americans can be their own boss and
grow their existing businesses."

.... with more access to capital (i.e. reducing the tax burden), you can grow your business. Thank you Reagan!

tony286 · 10-25-2012, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Hammer

No sir you misunderstand. I don't believe everything I hear. I do not hate Obama, I admit he has done some good. I just wish the bad did not out weigh it. I also wish people were not so blind about everything going on, Look it up, you can even find video on the net where the words come right out of Obama's own mouth. Cutting military spending is one thing, Removing our nuclear power is totally different.

Edit: I'm glad you don't hold a grudge on political differences

Its all bullshit at the end of the day. lol My father who I miss very much was my best friend and a carding carrying member of the RNC. When I look about 80 percent of my friends are righties of some type. I actually have very few liberal friends, I guess I have to go to more save a tree type functions lol.

tony286 · 10-25-2012, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

HUh? Fantasy?

Obama, according to this "cut taxes for small businesses 18 times" and he intends more cuts as part of a plan for a second term.

http://images.politico.com/global/20...et1_part3.html

I thought there was no relationship between lowering taxes and the growth of business and job creation?

I mean, sounds a lot like Reagan to me.

The message seems pretty clear "lower the tax burden on business and business/jobs grow".

Reagan would be very proud of Democrats today.

Here is a good quote from that page:

"With tax incentives for hiring and growth and greater
access to capital, especially for women-owned
businesses, more Americans can be their own boss and
grow their existing businesses."

.... with more access to capital (i.e. reducing the tax burden), you can grow your business. Thank you Reagan!

Its because Obama is not a fucking liberal for the 1000 th time. You cant compare now to Reagan. People didnt use llc's as much if at all back then. An LLC has no corporate tax, there is no tax event until money flows to the partners.

During the internet boom, how many jobs were created and taxes were higher. No one hires for taxes, they hire for need. If I have no need for more people in my business you could make the corp tax and my personal tax rate zero and I wont hire anyone.

The problem is the jobs aint coming back and the president cant order them back.So they all say this bullshit, Im telling you 7 percent is the new normal. With technology, you dont need as many workers and you can have workers work overseas for much less money. The factory moving from illinois to china, the factory was profitable but just not profitable enough its all more more more. They get slave labor and the first thing they are doing once the machines get to china is remove all the worker protections on them because it slows them down. How are you going to compete with that? lol

TheSquealer · 10-25-2012, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

Its because Obama is not a fucking liberal for the 1000 th time. You cant compare now to Reagan. People didnt use llc's as much if at all back then. An LLC has no corporate tax, there is no tax event until money flows to the partners.

Obama is a democrat and the standard party line is that lowering taxes do not increase job growth and/or business growth.

Obama is lowering taxes to increase hiring and stimulate business growth (yet again)

Quote:

During the internet boom, how many jobs were created and taxes were higher. No one hires for taxes, they hire for need. If I have no need for more people in my business you could make the corp tax and my personal tax rate zero and I wont hire anyone.

The internet boom is not proof of anything. You may as well try to tie comets that pass within 500,000 miles of the planet and the housing market together.

When you can continually duplicate an environment where every business on the planet is suddenly and irrationally competing and spending for market share in a totally new and unfamiliar medium, we can talk about the internet boom.

Quote:

The problem is the jobs aint coming back and the president cant order them back. So they all say this bullshit, Im telling you 7 percent is the new normal. With technology, you dont need as many workers and you can have workers work overseas for much less money. The factory moving from illinois to china, the factory was profitable but just not profitable enough its all more more more. They get slave labor and the first thing they are doing once the machines get to china is remove all the worker protections on them because it slows them down. How are you going to compete with that? lol

I disagree with this 100%. I don't work with Ukrainian and Russian programmers because its "slave labor", I do it because I can get 3-5 times the work and twice the productivity from someone who wants to work vs paying some American asshole the $90.00 per hour that he wants to waste fucking time and talk about all the reasons its going to be "two more weeks"

Furthermore, you can't force people to hire much more expensive and less productive labor and then to compete against other companies in a global economy where they are hiring cheaper and more productive labor. The world has changed dramatically in this way and you can't be competitive by forcing people to hire super expensive people.

TheSquealer · 10-25-2012, 06:47 AM

BTW... its always the American coders here that pop up with free time to take on new projects. Its never the Polish guys, the Ukrainian or Russian guys. Americans want too much and they produce too little.

tony286 · 10-25-2012, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

Obama is a democrat and the standard party line is that lowering taxes do not increase job growth and/or business growth.

Obama is lowering taxes to increase hiring and stimulate business growth (yet again)

The internet boom is not proof of anything. You may as well try to tie comets that pass within 500,000 miles of the planet and the housing market together.

When you can continually duplicate an environment where every business on the planet is suddenly and irrationally competing and spending for market share in a totally new and unfamiliar medium, we can talk about the internet boom.

I disagree with this 100%. I don't work with Ukrainian and Russian programmers because its "slave labor", I do it because I can get 3-5 times the work and twice the productivity from someone who wants to work vs paying some American asshole the $90.00 per hour that he wants to waste fucking time and talk about all the reasons its going to be "two more weeks"

Furthermore, you can't force people to hire much more expensive and less productive labor and then to compete against other companies in a global economy where they are hiring cheaper and more productive labor. The world has changed dramatically in this way and you can't be competitive by forcing people to hire super expensive people.

You didnt actually read what I wrote,I said 7 percent being the new normal. Also you cant say lower taxes will make people hire then I show you where alot of people were hired and taxes where higher. Then you say its not the same. lol its like if I defend obama, Im a liar ,If I say he is full of shit Im a liar. its silly.
Also the cost of living is alot lower in those countries, in turkey $1500 a month is a a pretty good living.
Also those countries don't they have free or very cheap college? That makes a huge difference its not all black and white.

Tom_PM · 10-25-2012, 06:57 AM

Corporate tax rates haven't really been in question, have they?

TheSquealer · 10-25-2012, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

Also you cant say lower taxes will make people hire then I show you where alot of people were hired and taxes where higher. Then you say its not the same.

Of course its not the same. You are talking about the .com boom. Something where business growth, hiring etc would have happened even if the USA had 100% taxes or no government at all. It would have happened during the middle of a civil war.

Kinda silly to use such an extreme example, where at one point before 1999, online advertising was less than 3 years from out pacing the GDP of the nation and where companies were doing IPO's left and right with no business plans, no products and where investors were running around throwing 8 figure sums at anyone who was under 25 uttered the words "I have an idea for the internet"

The fact that you have rely on such an absurd example does not make your point.

MaDalton · 10-25-2012, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Hammer

I did and will.

Did you guys know Obama reduced our nuclear power. Sorry just watched that 2016 movie and some things in it. well I hope are not true...

surprise, surprise - other countries are getting rid of nuclear energy completely because it's fucking dangerous

DWB · 10-25-2012, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mce

Anyone want to guess what % of people on this forum are actually registered to vote AND will be voting?

Depending on what state you live in, your vote doesn't even matter.

I refuse to participate. I don't live there anymore nor care about what hood ornament is on the car being driven by the Federal Reserve, while large corporations are riding shotgun. But, it's cheap entertainment to watch from abroad.

DWB · 10-25-2012, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

The problem is the jobs aint coming back and the president cant order them back.So they all say this bullshit, Im telling you 7 percent is the new normal. With technology, you dont need as many workers and you can have workers work overseas for much less money. The factory moving from illinois to china, the factory was profitable but just not profitable enough its all more more more. They get slave labor and the first thing they are doing once the machines get to china is remove all the worker protections on them because it slows them down. How are you going to compete with that? lol

I agree with all of that except the 7% part. That is going to increase as more companies move overseas and technology puts more workers out of a job.

Living in Asia I read a lot of Asian news, from all over Asia. I don't think Americans fully grasp how much business has left the USA and relocated in various parts of Asia. And it's not just large companies that make an entire product, it's also small companies who just make a few items that may be used on a larger product. For example, there is factory nearby, a former US company, who employees 1000s of Thais just to make gaskets and other tiny parts that are used in Chevy engines. It's not a Chevy company, but they sell those parts to Chevy. And that is just one little company. The same applies for just about everything that is "Made In America." A lot of things are manufactured abroad and then assembled in the USA, thus getting the "Made In America" sticker, when in truth it was only assembled there.

China, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia... all booming. And a lot of them are booming with jobs that used to be American jobs. And you are right when you say those jobs are NEVER coming back. Even with huge tax breaks, why would they? Labor and the cost of doing business is so cheap in these places, there are not enough tax breaks that would make them go back to the USA. And this is something most Americans simply do not understand because they don't know anything outside of their own borders, and their media lords usually don't talk about it.

keysync · 10-25-2012, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

I agree with all of that except the 7% part. That is going to increase as more companies move overseas and technology puts more workers out of a job.

Living in Asia I read a lot of Asian news, from all over Asia. I don't think Americans fully grasp how much business has left the USA and relocated in various parts of Asia. And it's not just large companies that make an entire product, it's also small companies who just make a few items that may be used on a larger product. For example, there is factory nearby, a former US company, who employees 1000s of Thais just to make gaskets and other tiny parts that are used in Chevy engines. It's not a Chevy company, but they sell those parts to Chevy. And that is just one little company. The same applies for just about everything that is "Made In America." A lot of things are manufactured abroad and then assembled in the USA, thus getting the "Made In America" sticker, when in truth it was only assembled there.

China, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia... all booming. And a lot of them are booming with jobs that used to be American jobs. And you are right when you say those jobs are NEVER coming back. Even with huge tax breaks, why would they? Labor and the cost of doing business is so cheap in these places, there are not enough tax breaks that would make them go back to the USA. And this is something most Americans simply do not understand because they don't know anything outside of their own borders, and their media lords usually don't talk about it.

Does anyone know the answer to this problem?

Barry-xlovecam · 10-25-2012, 07:57 AM

I looked at that image (copy of a PDF?).

I didn't see any details of a change; 179 deduction qualifications or limits -- changes in amortization rates or anything substantive being proposed.

Maybe, the details are to be worked out later? (Read: More campaign promises).

If there are some sort of tax credits given for purchases of capital equipment, real property, or more importantly -- software for the management of critical infrastructure it might create jobs here.

The reason I say software for the management of critical infrastructure is that for reasons of security that would be done in the USA. Real property would have to located in the USA to have its amortization accelerated or be subject to some ITC.

What should be proposed is the write down of real property to current value amounts for amortization to reflect the value lost in the collapse of real property values of the recently past years.

Real properties (real estate) values have been reduced 25%, or in some cases a lot more, and this has to do with a lot of the forces behind this bad economy. Trillions of dollars of paper wealth were lost that now cannot be pledged for borrowing. A consumer consumption driven economic recovery, at any rapid rate, is unlikely.

Really, the above is not a tax cut but a business subsidy -- call it what is is but make sure that it is structured to benefit the worker-consumer as his renewed buying will create new demand and increase both business and consumer equity interests.

MaDalton · 10-25-2012, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keysync

Does anyone know the answer to this problem?

high quality labour, education, innovation, new technologies...

Germany was mentioned a couple of times recently by Romney and Obama as example

Barry-xlovecam · 10-25-2012, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keysync

Does anyone know the answer to this problem?

Low added value manufacturing jobs can return to America with advances in "robot workers" -- machines to replace low cost foreign labor. We are 50 years away from crude androids.

BASIC RESEARCH -- we haven't done this on a grand scale since the race to the moon. That basic research led to the digital age we are in today.

tony286 · 10-25-2012, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

high quality labour, education, innovation, new technologies...

Germany was mentioned a couple of times recently by Romney and Obama as example

All very true but also germany has very very strong unions, in america the gov could never say to companies dont lay anyone off just cut back they hours and we will make up the difference. So then when things came back germany did fine. Because millions of jobs werent dumped.Also also think in germany has a country men all stick together mind set where here its I got mine fuck you.

tony286 · 10-25-2012, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

I agree with all of that except the 7% part. That is going to increase as more companies move overseas and technology puts more workers out of a job.

Living in Asia I read a lot of Asian news, from all over Asia. I don't think Americans fully grasp how much business has left the USA and relocated in various parts of Asia. And it's not just large companies that make an entire product, it's also small companies who just make a few items that may be used on a larger product. For example, there is factory nearby, a former US company, who employees 1000s of Thais just to make gaskets and other tiny parts that are used in Chevy engines. It's not a Chevy company, but they sell those parts to Chevy. And that is just one little company. The same applies for just about everything that is "Made In America." A lot of things are manufactured abroad and then assembled in the USA, thus getting the "Made In America" sticker, when in truth it was only assembled there.

China, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia... all booming. And a lot of them are booming with jobs that used to be American jobs. And you are right when you say those jobs are NEVER coming back. Even with huge tax breaks, why would they? Labor and the cost of doing business is so cheap in these places, there are not enough tax breaks that would make them go back to the USA. And this is something most Americans simply do not understand because they don't know anything outside of their own borders, and their media lords usually don't talk about it.

You could be right and I dont think there isnt really a fix. Unless in the US they developed some technology that only could be built here and it wouldnt last long because it would moved to asia as soon as possible. lol 100 million used to be a lifetimes earnings now its a year and they want more. So there there no fix.

MaDalton · 10-25-2012, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

All very true but also germany has very very strong unions, in america the gov could never say to companies dont lay anyone off just cut back they hours and we will make up the difference. So then when things came back germany did fine. Because millions of jobs werent dumped.

not 100% true - the main cause in the recent recession in 2008 was that companies, the government, the unions and the workers cooperated and companies for example got help from the government which took over part of the wages for a limited time

it was not that pressure was involved, more like "how do we do that alltogether". the result is the lowest unemployement since more than 20 years now

what also helped was that at that time both big parties were in a coalition and therefore forced to work things out together - not against each other

tony286 · 10-25-2012, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

not 100% true - the main cause in the recent recession in 2008 was that companies, the government, the unions and the workers cooperated and companies for example got help from the government which took over part of the wages for a limited time

it was not that pressure was involved, more like "how do we do that alltogether". the result is the lowest unemployement since more than 20 years now

what also helped was that at that time both big parties were in a coalition and therefore forced to work things out together - not against each other

A real feeling of lets do whats good for country not just ourselves.

DWB · 10-25-2012, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keysync

Does anyone know the answer to this problem?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

You could be right and I dont think there isnt really a fix. Unless in the US they developed some technology that only could be built here and it wouldnt last long because it would moved to asia as soon as possible. lol 100 million used to be a lifetimes earnings now its a year and they want more. So there there no fix.

I honestly don't think there is a fix. This is just how things have evolved globally. There is no rest button, no going back, and no "fixing it," because there is nothing to fix. This is just how business is now. Just like there is no "fixing" the porn business, it is what it is now. You adapt or you will die.

It is foolish to think that the USA would remain such an employment word force forever. Like every industry in the world, they change. So did porn and so did how products are manufactured. Just about everything all of us use in our day to day life was made overseas. You can't fix that.

As a company owner, it makes no sense to work Americans if you can set up shop abroad. Foreign workers will work longer, harder, for much less, and you don't have to worry about any of the employment benefits that Americans want, or safety hassles with OSHA breathing down your back. You can run your business how you want. These countries are all seeing a rise in the middle class and they are hungry for all the things they could never have before, but, thanks to American factories, they are getting it.

The bottom line is, the world changed. End of story. Jobs are now going to countries that are best suited for them. If some of those industries end up being better suited in the USA, so be it, but the bulk of them will be abroad where EVERYTHING is cheaper, not just the labor.

Maybe the USA will come up with something amazing, like a new form of energy, but how long will it be before they ship that overseas too? Parts have to be built somewhere and you can count on them going to the place that is the cheapest. And if they don't export those jobs, how many jobs can it really create, and what percentage of Americans even be educated enough to get those jobs? Not many. I hate to say it, but very dark days are ahead for the USA and this whole thing is just getting started. If you think it's bad now, fast forward 10, 20, or 40 years. Technology is only going to eliminate more jobs and devolving nations are going to continue to be the world's factory.

Rochard · 10-25-2012, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

I honestly don't think there is a fix. This is just how things have evolved globally. There is no rest button, no going back, and no "fixing it," because there is nothing to fix. This is just how business is now. Just like there is no "fixing" the porn business, it is what it is now. You adapt or you will die.

It is foolish to think that the USA would remain such an employment word force forever. Like every industry in the world, they change. So did porn and so did how products are manufactured. Just about everything all of us use in our day to day life was made overseas. You can't fix that.

As a company owner, it makes no sense to work Americans if you can set up shop abroad. Foreign workers will work longer, harder, for much less, and you don't have to worry about any of the employment benefits that Americans want, or safety hassles with OSHA breathing down your back. You can run your business how you want. These countries are all seeing a rise in the middle class and they are hungry for all the things they could never have before, but, thanks to American factories, they are getting it.

The bottom line is, the world changed. End of story. Jobs are now going to countries that are best suited for them. If some of those industries end up being better suited in the USA, so be it, but the bulk of them will be abroad where EVERYTHING is cheaper, not just the labor.

Maybe the USA will come up with something amazing, like a new form of energy, but how long will it be before they ship that overseas too? Parts have to be built somewhere and you can count on them going to the place that is the cheapest. And if they don't export those jobs, how many jobs can it really create, and what percentage of Americans even be educated enough to get those jobs? Not many. I hate to say it, but very dark days are ahead for the USA and this whole thing is just getting started. If you think it's bad now, fast forward 10, 20, or 40 years. Technology is only going to eliminate more jobs and devolving nations are going to continue to be the world's factory.

The internet might just be the great leveler here... And we are partly to blame. how many have had Filpino employees, graphic designers on their staff? Guilty. They work good and they work for one third of the price of their American counterparts.

I've also noticed that they are everywhere on Ebay. Seems to me like half of what I buy on Ebay these days comes from Hong Kong.

Tom_PM · 10-25-2012, 09:15 AM

Of course it's a global economy and has been for decades. Once again we're stuck between progressives and preservatives. "Liberal" and "conservative" went out a long time ago but people are hitched to those wagons and don't think anything else can take over as they've been taken over.

TheSquealer · 10-25-2012, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keysync

Does anyone know the answer to this problem?

Be competitive or die. This is the story of empires. Growth happens for a lot of reasons, namely cultural reasons, a sense of identity, a collective sense of values and the circumstances of the times (territorial conquest, trade/trade routes/demand for certain trade products etc)... eventually, things change. Empires fail to adapt. People high on their own sense of self and self importance fail to adapt or accept the new realities. The hunger for success and "more" that fueled the growth of the empire dies when people are fat and rich and that hunger and drive to succeed is slowly replaced with "everyone owes me a living".

Using DWB's example, if you are staying afloat by producing gaskets in Asia for much lower costs, then the issue is not how to force those people to move back to the US, the problem is... how are those US companies going to compete with other international companies producing those gaskets in Asia at a reduced cost.

The USA as an empire is destined to die. It is dying now. People are fat tubs of shit with an ever growing sense of entitlement. Rich people and success and wealth, all of which used to be celebrated are now pointed to as failure as senseless greed and synonymous with robbing the poor (as happens with every budding socialist / communist / fascist / dictatorial rising star right before the revolution).

This is a global economy, the playing fields are being leveled where every 3rd world nation has the change to create billion dollar tech startups or produce/sell products globally for much lower costs. That won't be changed by simplistic rhetoric of forcing US companies to work domestically and be less competitive.

TheSquealer · 10-25-2012, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

Of course it's a global economy and has been for decades. Once again we're stuck between progressives and preservatives. "Liberal" and "conservative" went out a long time ago but people are hitched to those wagons and don't think anything else can take over as they've been taken over.

No one likes change and elections are a popularity contest these days, not about actually fixing real problems. The mob wants to hear a feel-good message and they're cool with it as long as that message also tells them where to lay blame for their failure. Bush is still being blamed for everything yet all the same people blaming Bush didn't mind buying the houses they couldn't afford, the cars they couldn't afford and taking vacations they couldn't afford.

The US has changed to radically in 100 years. From immigrants celebrating the American Dream, hard work and success to "hey, that asshole only has money because he took it from someone else". The biggest issues of the US are cultural, not things that will be changed with legislation and taxation.

Tom_PM · 10-25-2012, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

No one likes change and elections are a popularity contest these days, not about actually fixing real problems. The mob wants to hear a feel-good message and they're cool with it as long as that message also tells them where to lay blame for their failure.

The US has changed to radically in 100 years. From immigrants celebrating the American Dream, hard work and succe to "hey, that asshole only has money because he took it from someone else"

I don't even believe that second part for HALF a second. But you see I don't buy into much bullshit that idiots say to get elected and get views.

You seem to be repeating a republican party rallying cry.

DWB · 10-25-2012, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

The internet might just be the great leveler here... And we are partly to blame. how many have had Filpino employees, graphic designers on their staff? Guilty. They work good and they work for one third of the price of their American counterparts.

I've also noticed that they are everywhere on Ebay. Seems to me like half of what I buy on Ebay these days comes from Hong Kong.

Yea, the net created a lot of jobs abroad. Mom and pop companies and individuals who otherwise never have access to the western markets, now have full access to anyone in the world with a computer. I know a girl here who sells clothes and small items she buys at local markets to Europe and the USA via Ebay and Facebook of all places, and makes shit loads of money.

I saw something on TV last week about a shop in China selling 1000+ purses A DAY on their online store, selling both to the Chinese and western markets. And that should be a good hint, if you can find something to sell to the Chinese, and they want it, you're going to cash in big time.

Tom_PM · 10-25-2012, 09:24 AM

If people don't want to contribute to the society they live in, then they can opt for prison instead of paying their taxes, whatever their rate is.

DWB · 10-25-2012, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

If people don't want to contribute to the society they live in, then they can opt for prison instead of paying their taxes, whatever their rate is.

You should look into relocating to North Korea.

Prison is a little harsh for not pulling your weight, but perhaps send them to go live somewhere else. Send all slackers to a specified region where they can continue to slack at will. And if they don't pull their weight there, they starve and die.

Best-In-BC · 10-25-2012, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

I think 7 percent unemployment is going to be the new normal.

You unemployment has always hovered around there which is actually a decent number, considering a large percent of that are people who just arnt looking cause they have no drive to work

TheSquealer · 10-25-2012, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

I don't even believe that second part for HALF a second. But you see I don't buy into much bullshit that idiots say to get elected and get views.

You seem to be repeating a republican party rallying cry.

Well... lets put this into perspective. I don't watch the news and refuse to vote. I haven't watched more than 30 minutes of news in the last couple years. I didn't watch the debates. I could care less. I could care less who gets elected President because I personally don't think it matters. I think the USA is dying. I think it will die. Not die in terms of failing to exist, but "die" in terms of being relegated to a 3rd rate first world country whose influence will continue to shrink from year to year. Parents are failing. Government is failing. Schools are failing. Any sense of values, morals, personal accountability, responsibility and so on, disappearing. States are failing etc etc etc etc. Obesity alone is choking the medical system. People are gluttonous and can't be saved from themselves. Give them a credit card and a $10,000 limit and they will spend that 10,000 even though they have no ability to pay it back.. then they will convince themselves they are the victims. This is the new world we now live in. A nation of people who blame everyone else for their issues and a government which is all too happy to send that message to get elected and appease the mob.

I am a lot like DWB in that regard. I've spent enough time in foreign countries and traveling to understand the difference between countries that are hungry for success and countries that lost that hunger decades ago. You can't legislate desire, the will to succeed, determination, values and so on.

I don't think Democrats or Republicans are the solution. I think believing they are, is the problem.

pornguy · 10-25-2012, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

I agree with all of that except the 7% part. That is going to increase as more companies move overseas and technology puts more workers out of a job.

Living in Asia I read a lot of Asian news, from all over Asia. I don't think Americans fully grasp how much business has left the USA and relocated in various parts of Asia. And it's not just large companies that make an entire product, it's also small companies who just make a few items that may be used on a larger product. For example, there is factory nearby, a former US company, who employees 1000s of Thais just to make gaskets and other tiny parts that are used in Chevy engines. It's not a Chevy company, but they sell those parts to Chevy. And that is just one little company. The same applies for just about everything that is "Made In America." A lot of things are manufactured abroad and then assembled in the USA, thus getting the "Made In America" sticker, when in truth it was only assembled there.

China, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia... all booming. And a lot of them are booming with jobs that used to be American jobs. And you are right when you say those jobs are NEVER coming back. Even with huge tax breaks, why would they? Labor and the cost of doing business is so cheap in these places, there are not enough tax breaks that would make them go back to the USA. And this is something most Americans simply do not understand because they don't know anything outside of their own borders, and their media lords usually don't talk about it.

Hell you should see the profits that companies make in Mexico. Its amazing at the prices they charge for the quality.

If its Hecho you dont buyo.

10-24-2012, 07:46 PM	#1
TheSquealer BANNED Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In Your Head Posts: 25,174	Good that Obama agrees with Minte for once. Seems he feels there's a correlation between effective corporate tax rates and job creation. Lower corporate taxes = more jobs. But hey, what does he know anyway? http://www.businessinsider.com/obama...s-that-hire-11 http://www.businessinsider.com/obama...s-that-hire-11 __________________ . Yes, fewer illegal immigrants working equates to more job opportunities for American citizens. Rochard Last edited by TheSquealer; 10-24-2012 at 07:48 PM..

10-24-2012, 07:54 PM	#2
mce Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: All Over Posts: 3,917	Anyone want to guess what % of people on this forum are actually registered to vote AND will be voting? __________________ Pay Virtual Assistants Based on RESULTS instead of TIME STOP getting FUCKED IN THE ASS by your VA

10-25-2012, 06:47 AM	#13
TheSquealer BANNED Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In Your Head Posts: 25,174	BTW... its always the American coders here that pop up with free time to take on new projects. Its never the Polish guys, the Ukrainian or Russian guys. Americans want too much and they produce too little. __________________ . Yes, fewer illegal immigrants working equates to more job opportunities for American citizens. Rochard

10-25-2012, 06:57 AM	#15
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	Corporate tax rates haven't really been in question, have they? __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

10-25-2012, 07:57 AM	#21
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	I looked at that image (copy of a PDF?). I didn't see any details of a change; 179 deduction qualifications or limits -- changes in amortization rates or anything substantive being proposed. Maybe, the details are to be worked out later? (Read: More campaign promises). If there are some sort of tax credits given for purchases of capital equipment, real property, or more importantly -- software for the management of critical infrastructure it might create jobs here. The reason I say software for the management of critical infrastructure is that for reasons of security that would be done in the USA. Real property would have to located in the USA to have its amortization accelerated or be subject to some ITC. What should be proposed is the write down of real property to current value amounts for amortization to reflect the value lost in the collapse of real property values of the recently past years. Real properties (real estate) values have been reduced 25%, or in some cases a lot more, and this has to do with a lot of the forces behind this bad economy. Trillions of dollars of paper wealth were lost that now cannot be pledged for borrowing. A consumer consumption driven economic recovery, at any rapid rate, is unlikely. Really, the above is not a tax cut but a business subsidy -- call it what is is but make sure that it is structured to benefit the worker-consumer as his renewed buying will create new demand and increase both business and consumer equity interests. Last edited by Barry-xlovecam; 10-25-2012 at 07:59 AM..

10-24-2012, 08:00 PM	#3
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	Close to no one pays 35 percent. So its not going to change shit. Also as long u can get workers for a dollar an hr and they have government health care. Those jobs ain't coming back. I think 7 percent unemployment is going to be the new normal.

10-25-2012, 09:15 AM	#30
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	Of course it's a global economy and has been for decades. Once again we're stuck between progressives and preservatives. "Liberal" and "conservative" went out a long time ago but people are hitched to those wagons and don't think anything else can take over as they've been taken over. __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

10-25-2012, 09:24 AM	#35
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	If people don't want to contribute to the society they live in, then they can opt for prison instead of paying their taxes, whatever their rate is. __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.