Rochard

Yeah, I know - Handguns can kill nearly as many just as quickly.

The difference - for my anyhow - is I can see a handgun being used as protection.

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Rochard

Not so much. I love the debate on firearms. I see firearms as weapons and tools to be used in combat, while others consider them nearly toys and "hobbies".

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Minte

I am going with the top weapon in the first pic.

DTK

Wow! Didn't know that...wondered what happened to Craig.

Revolving Door example # 8,348,394

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NYRangers

It is this stupid logic that they used in Canada. Part of the stupid logic they used for the billion dollars that was wasted on the poorly drafted gun registration laws that they just recently abolished.

Take a moment to think about how stupid this is. Do you think the person down the street with a grow op is going to register their guns so the police know? It's not the honest people the police have to worry about.

If you can't see the common sense here then I have just wasted a few minutes of my time to type this.

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Mr Pheer

In the first image, in order from the top:
M16
M16A2
M4
M16A4

All are assault rifles.


In the second image:
All are AR15.

Why is it so hard to understand that just because the look the same, they are not the same?

PornoMonster

Handgun -- Less accurate

If the ar-15 is not used for defense, then why do the military and police use them?

I guess the Police are always on the offensive ---

I always grab my .45 and my AR-15 when checking around my house. Caught someone in my backyard stealing a step stool.. I know right, a step stool that my kids used to get on the trampoline... Crazy but whatever.. Point is
1. I grabbed the AR for first weapon and .45 as backup.
2. I didn't shoot this person just because I had an AR

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Rochard

Why do you not understand that most of the parts are exactly the fucking same?

It's like having a Ford Mustang and changing the wheels and trying to call it something else.

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Rochard

I did not say that an AR15 is not used for defense. I said "I can see a handgun being used as protection". Clearly any weapon can be used for offense or defense.

Again, this all goes back to my military training. If you are taking on someone who broke into the house, you need a handgun. If you are manning the front line and might suddenly find yourself taking on a platoon of thirty well armed men... You need an assault rifle.

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PornoMonster

DUH you just proved his Point---
Same parts inside my 30-06 infact my 30-06 takes a LARGER round.
All the little scary stuff to make it look fancy is JUST FOR LOOKS, I mean unless you
are going to fix a bayonet
Worried about someone finding you from the flash
Shooting from holding the pistol grip -- which some shot guns have also

Lipstick on a PIG

I can get a Large Capacity magazine for the 30-06 and fire it at the same speed as the ar-15.

You do know the actual bullet fired by the ar-15 is just slightly bigger than a .22? Just lots more gun powder to make it go faster and further, neither have bearing inside a school, theater and so on...

One Pull of the Trigger One Round fired.
Military have Full Auto (mostly obsolete) and 3 round burst -- which they say do not use


Honestly I say Keep the 30+ round Magazines they jam so much. I don't think my 10 round mags ever had a jam. drop one slap one in, is so much faster than fucking with dropping it, setting the rounds straight, maybe pulling a round out, pulling the charging handle and maybe the forward assist....

Smile

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PornoMonster

Most police are inside houses, stores, cars, and so on.. not many in the Field...

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bronco67

When it comes to home defense, I'd prefer a Mossberg riot gun.

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epitome

Don't confuse me participating in political threads (as you often do yourself) with me being smitten with him. That is just as bad if I were to say "hey Minte, you bash Obama in every thread... you must be racist." While I do think some people dislike him purely because of his race, I've never thought that of you. Should I start thinking that?

You also missed the wink. You're one of the people I actually like going back and forth with.

I've already figured out that if he could end world hunger and prevent every disease by raising your taxes 1.5% you'd come out against it because it's his idea. ;) <-- notice the wink.

bronco67

.223 also tumbles when it strikes. There were times I fired mine into a target, and I could swear that some of the holes were a side profile of the bullet because it started tumbling before reaching the target.

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Mr Pheer

Not quite.

Change the wheels on a Mustang, and you have a Mustang with different wheels.

Convert an AR15 to fire full auto, and you have 5 to 10 years in federal prison.

But I give up trying to talk to you. This is exactly why I walked right past you about 5 times in the past three days and just kept going.

Mr Pheer

Me too.

Fire it through a coffee can holding water... tiny hole going in, big gaping hole going out.

Rochard

Odd, because every time I see them in a stand off during a hostage situation they are outside. And when they usually question someone and arrest someone, they are outside. Police are police - they carry handguns until they need to bring out something bigger. When they are in a tactical situation, they pull out shotguns and assault rifles.

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Rochard

The AR15 is a variant of the M16.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15
Today the AR-15 and its variations are manufactured by many companies and are popular among civilian shooters and law enforcement forces around the world due to their accuracy and modularity (for more history on the development and evolution of the AR-15 and derivatives see M16 rifle).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle
When you look up M16 it even lists it as the AR15 as a varient.

Same assault rifle.

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Rochard

Your loss, not mine.

Robbie and I don't get along too well on the boards. I saw him in Vegas, and I made an effort to say hello to him. I talked to him for no more than five minutes and he struck me as a great guy. I was hoping to run into him and spend more time getting to know him better.

But no matter what you tell, these are the same weapons. Their parts are freaking interchangeable:
http://www.ar15.com/content/legal/AR15-M16Parts/

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xXXtesy10

And drugs are still and will continue to be easy to get....next.

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Rochard

How did I miss this? Here's the definition of the M16: The M16 rifle, officially designated Rifle, Caliber 5.56 mm, M16, is the United States military version of the AR-15 rifle.

Want a full list of variants?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15_variants

It says it on this page too! "Colt has been the most visible producer of weapons of the AR-15 pattern, and the military designation M16 is heavily associated with the company.".

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Mr Pheer

#edited# - nevermind, goodbye troll.

Killswitch ignore feature engaged.

DTK

Good luck trying to have a rational discussion with Minte. Believe me, i've tried, but he has blind spots you could drive a truck through. I'm singling him out, but he's no different than anyone who gets their thinking points from the right wing screamers.

See sig
.
.

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PornoMonster

LOL kinda dense aren't you?

Everything is a VARIANT.

Same as if you dress up a .22 or my 30-06
Fires the same.
One pull of the trigger ONE Round fired.

Also, yeah the standoff -- like you said stand off, they wait and oh everyone is dead inside. ha.

But anyway -- Why the Fuck do you care what I defend MY house or my family with???
You just want to control everything, you know.

Hey why are you not concerned with the 32 people killed and 17 wounded in ONE mass shooting all with handguns?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre


Hey Look an AR-15 BB Gun


So what is your Beef with the AR-15?
Fires the same as my 30-06 just the AR-15 has ( car ground effects )
When handguns KILL way more people every year????

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DWB

That isn't the point, but that is where the media has placed the blame and now assault rifles are the new boogie man. Everyone is arguing over what type of gun should be legal when that is the least of their worries. And based on the new executive actions, it is not the worry of the White House either.

Because you're a Marine you know more than others posting here that the type of weapon is of no real consequence when it is in the hands of a killer. Sure, some shoot faster than others and may be preferred in combat for obvious reasons, but in the real world you could kill me just as dead with a single shot from a pistol. There are not different levels of dead based on the weapon used. All this talk about what weapons people should or should not have is nothing more than a distraction from the real issues at hand, which is why are people becoming more violent, are psychotropic drugs involved, is the media playing a roll and creating copy cats, and what can we do about it? HOW they kill is totally irrelevant.

tony286

He killed all those people with a hand guns because he had alot of time. The movie and the school guy didnt.

Also, why the fuck did he have a gun? Again the ban nothing, but regulations are way too loose. Also have classes that are mandatory before you can buy. The nuts wont make it thru the class, a great filter process.
"Cho, a senior English major at Virginia Tech, had previously been diagnosed with a severe anxiety disorder. During much of his middle school and high school years, he received therapy and special education support. After graduating from high school, Cho enrolled at Virginia Tech. Because of federal privacy laws, Virginia Tech was unaware of Cho's previous diagnosis or the accommodations he had been granted at school. In 2005, Cho was accused of stalking two female students. After an investigation, a Virginia special justice declared Cho mentally ill and ordered him to attend treatment.[5] Lucinda Roy, a professor and former chairwoman of the English department, had asked Cho to seek counseling.[6] Cho's mother turned to her church for help.[7]"

DWB

So are hookers. It is that simple.

tony286

You give it up possible business opportunities over debates on a mean nothing message board?

DWB

Police use handguns. They can be very accurate in the right hands.


Yea but.... FREEDOM!!!!!

Minte

A message board is just another way of communicating. I wouldn't do business with many here. If you text message me ,call me or snail mail me an insulting message then it's fairly clear you are not the kind of person I would waste my time or money with.

There is a reason that most of the people who are and have been successful in the adult businesses don't come across as assholes online with fake personalities.

If you were sitting across from me at a desk, you would find I would talk to you in person exactly like I type here at GFY. Kane, Relentless to name a few are the same. I don't agree with either of them all the time, but I know that if I were to be asked to invest with them on a project I would. I do believe that they are the same in person as they are online.

tony286

Rochard didnt insult anyone. He disagreed. The man probably forgot more about guns than most here know.

Minte

My comment wasn't directed at Rochard. It's a blanket statement about everyone that is a self proclaimed internet genius that thinks it's fine to be insulting and abrasive and be forgiven for it when it comes time to make money.

Minte

Absolutely I'm racist with the exeception of my minority friends, business associates and employees. I forgot my military years. There were a number of minority NCO's and Officers that I would've followed into combat.

I'll make a promise, if he does end world hunger and prevent every disease from happening I will give him a standing ovation. Until then, he's just another arrogant educator with a lot of lofty opinions and no experience at anything beyond being a community organizer and a good reader.

Rochard

You said it.

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Rochard

Any weapon can kill, but if I am going into combat I don't want a handgun. I want an assault rifle.

I the assault rifle the new boogie man? Perhaps. I'll never forget when I discovered that anyone could buy an AR15. I always thought that was regulated to the military and law enforcement. I grew up with rifles and shotguns; We never gave any thought to assault rifles.

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kyro

it is true a lot more people get killed from hands guns then assault weapons, people are irresponsible with guns all the time and in many cases kids find loaded weapons and they shoot themself and die. too many irresponsible people with guns, too many people die. all guns should be banned.

Mr Pheer

Are you kidding me? Yes, I did exactly that. Been doing this for 17 years, not going to change now. I do things my way, not how someone else thinks I should do my business.

crockett

Because they aren't that different. I've seen the arguments that .. Oh it's not an assault rifle which is bull shit. It's the same core gun it's just some might be slightly different far as add on or selections of fire.

You know just as well as I do that one doesn't need a 3 round burst fire option or a fully automatic to go on a shooting rampage. The only then you need is ability to hold as much ammo as you can and in most cases single fire semi auto is the best choice because you don't waste a lot of ammo.

Anyone that honestly tries to say a semi auto single fire is not an assault rifle is full of shit. It might not be a military surplus with selective fire but it's good enough.

We fought WW2 with the M1 Grand, a semi auto single fire long rife with a much smaller clip than any of those pictured.

Killswitch

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tony286

I was just asking a question.

Deej

easy to tell... by the average person... no. ANyone thats been around either. Absolutely.

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JimmyTheGeek

Basil Walker speaks on Gun Control

I think we all just need to reflect on the word of Basil Walker(.com). The constitution does NOT say that nutcakes can't have guns.

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Mr Pheer

It amazes me how people in this industry dont get the concept of a legal definition.

crockett

The difference in legal definition in this industry doesn't result in the loss of lives..

AdultPornMasta

No the parts are NOT "exactly" the same!

The fire control group of the M-16 is entirely different than that of the AR-15, the M-16 receiver has an additional hole for the auto sear, the inside of the AR-15 receiver is narrower than that of an M-16, specifically to prevent the installation of the auto sear and modification of such AR-15 receivers by any other than a licensed manufacturer is highly illegal and subject to severe penalties.

The M-16 bolt group is different than that of an AR-15 although it can be used on an AR-15 but such use will not permit or cause fully automatic fire.

Although the double-hooked M-16 hammer and the M-16 Safe/Fire/Full Auto selector can be installed in an AR-15 receiver, neither of these parts individually or in combination will cause or permit fully automatic fire without additional machining operations on the receiver to permit the installation of the auto sear as has been previously stated. ATF may also consider the installation of such parts into an AR-15 receiver to be the attempted manufacture of an unregistered machine gun and there are very severe penalties involved.

It's like the difference between a 1954 and a 1955 Corvette. The '54 is a six popper and nothing off the line, whereas the '55, which looks exactly like the '54 is a hot rod from Hell with its high performance V-8 engine.

1954 Corvette:



1955 Corvette:



You may now go fuck yourself!

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DWB

Hence the obvious case for owning one even if it is just to protect your home. You want to know your ass is covered with a weapon that is going to get the job done. If it's good enough for a Marine, it should be good enough for the people the Marines defend. They just need to be properly trained and responsible with them.

That said, I've personally never had more than a shotgun for home protection. But I can see the case for people wanting an assault rifle for home protection if they have experience with guns. If the military wants them to go into combat, then they are clearly an excellent choice of weapon.

tony286

You are a smart guy. Alot of this isnt about home protection, its about the great revolution fantasy alot of these people have.
I think they should ban none of it, but the regulations are all too fucking loose for something so powerful.

Minte

At the end of the thread it appears that no one thinks that some better controls over a specific group of weapons is a bad thing.

As long as that's all the farther the feds take it.

Mr Pheer

Regardless of what industry applies, a legal definition is a legal definition, is it not?

It's amusing to see how people seem to disregard it because it isnt convenient to them. Especially the media... and in this thread.