45% of Americans pay no federal income tax - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Google Expert · 02-25-2016, 04:02 PM

most of those taxes go to support worthless dindus and brassmonkeys, who are a drain on the society

LetterTwenty7 · 02-25-2016, 04:17 PM

How can they calculate that? I'm pretty sure that it's more than 45, similar like here in Europe.

Magnetron · 02-25-2016, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

You're right. The fact that in the last year you've grown tired of defending someone with a decade+ history of lying and stealing, definitely proves something about me.... Uhm... yeah. That makes me a... uhm.... a moron. I guess that makes.... sense?

I didn't realize how much of a socialist you are. That was a beautiful power to the people speech but sadly, decades too late. Funny that ideology really has died out in the last couple decades after a near century failure and misery for the people it purports to defend and here you are coming around to tout its "undeniable truths" which the rest of the planet have long since abandoned. Please do us all a favor and attempt to curb yourself from spending as much time preaching about a failed economic ideology as you did defending a liar and thief. That just makes you look silly.

What's silly is your go-to response of mentioning The Butcher when I merely pointed out how you want a nation of workers earning less than a living wage yet whine because they don't pay enough taxes compared to the wealthy.

Do your cheeks hurt when you speak out both sides of your paper asshole?

Clench your sphincter once for yes, twice for no.

Robbie · 02-25-2016, 06:33 PM

"Workers earning less than a living wage".

Would that be because they don't have the needed skills or education and are working bottom of the ladder jobs as a result?

I don't think any business should be forced to pay someone more than what they are worth. And if you are unskilled labor...then you will earn unskilled labor wages. I don't think it's the employers lot in life to be the "daddy" to full grown adults.

TheSquealer · 02-25-2016, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

"Workers earning less than a living wage".

Would that be because they don't have the needed skills or education and are working bottom of the ladder jobs as a result?

I don't think any business should be forced to pay someone more than what they are worth. And if you are unskilled labor...then you will earn unskilled labor wages. I don't think it's the employers lot in life to be the "daddy" to full grown adults.

I was at the supermarket today and at the self checkout there is always a guy or girl standing there to reset or clear the errors... basically they just stand there with the remote and text on their phones.

They do this thing where they pick up the little baskets and put them by the exit (not the entrance for customers walking into the store) because its easier for them. Then of course, people change course when walking in and grab and basket and come in through, then routing through all the people trying to check out and leave.... because thats where they put all the baskets. Basically, its like 10 extra paces to put them all near the entrance for the convenience of the customer and can't be bothered.

I was actually thinking about this today, thinking "wow, your job is basically to babysit the technology that is literally replacing you and to occasionally gather baskets and put them near the entrance and you do both poorly". It struck me as being very funny that a guy is standing there essentially competing for his own jobs existence and even he would have a tough time arguing why his job should even exist at all.

TheSquealer · 02-25-2016, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnetron

What's silly is your go-to response of mentioning The Butcher when I merely pointed out how you want a nation of workers earning less than a living wage yet whine because they don't pay enough taxes compared to the wealthy.

Do your cheeks hurt when you speak out both sides of your paper asshole?

Clench your sphincter once for yes, twice for no.

its silly to mention the person with his persistent defense of a liar and scammer shouldn't be questioning anothers character or intelligence? So.... uhm... Ok? I suppose...?

Additionally, like any emotional turd trying to foist Marxist ideals on others, you seem incapable of being honest, which makes sense i suppose since you have no argument. I don't want a "nation" of people to make less than a living wage. I'm not angry. I haven't said anything you've claimed i've said.

You sound more like your posturing for Kim Jong Il each time you post your made up nonsense.

MetaMan · 02-25-2016, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

I was at the supermarket today and at the self checkout there is always a guy or girl standing there to reset or clear the errors... basically they just stand there with the remote and text on their phones.

They do this thing where they pick up the little baskets and put them by the exit (not the entrance for customers walking into the store) because its easier for them. Then of course, people change course when walking in and grab and basket and come in through, then routing through all the people trying to check out and leave.... because thats where they put all the baskets. Basically, its like 10 extra paces to put them all near the entrance for the convenience of the customer and can't be bothered.

I was actually thinking about this today, thinking "wow, your job is basically to babysit the technology that is literally replacing you and to occasionally gather baskets and put them near the entrance and you do both poorly". It struck me as being very funny that a guy is standing there essentially competing for his own jobs existence and even he would have a tough time arguing why his job should even exist at all.

You expect the guy to walk 10 paces extra for under $30/hour!? What kind of greedy capitalist are you!?!?!

Paul Markham · 02-26-2016, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

"Workers earning less than a living wage".

Would that be because they don't have the needed skills or education and are working bottom of the ladder jobs as a result?

I don't think any business should be forced to pay someone more than what they are worth. And if you are unskilled labor...then you will earn unskilled labor wages. I don't think it's the employers lot in life to be the "daddy" to full grown adults.

Spending more on education, free college for those with the right exam marks taking the science degrees. Because the future jobs are going to be in the sciences.

The problem with so many in "unskilled labor wages" is they don't generate enough salary to warrant paying taxes. So the State becomes "daddy" to full grown adults.

Paul Markham · 02-26-2016, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

I was at the supermarket today and at the self checkout there is always a guy or girl standing there to reset or clear the errors... basically they just stand there with the remote and text on their phones.

They do this thing where they pick up the little baskets and put them by the exit (not the entrance for customers walking into the store) because its easier for them. Then of course, people change course when walking in and grab and basket and come in through, then routing through all the people trying to check out and leave.... because thats where they put all the baskets. Basically, its like 10 extra paces to put them all near the entrance for the convenience of the customer and can't be bothered.

I was actually thinking about this today, thinking "wow, your job is basically to babysit the technology that is literally replacing you and to occasionally gather baskets and put them near the entrance and you do both poorly". It struck me as being very funny that a guy is standing there essentially competing for his own jobs existence and even he would have a tough time arguing why his job should even exist at all.

And this is the future. There will be more auto check-outs and as we get used to them, they will need fewer people to tend to them. Fast food will become more automated, already one girl can sit on a machine that cleans the area it used to take 5 to do. Online Shopping will replace shop assistants, and the march towards lower wages for the bottom 60% will become the 70%.

The problem is Westerners think short term, strike today for wages that make the product uncompetitive, prefer to buy a mobile phone for $150 instead of $200 because it's made in the US. Or even buy a mobile phone that just phones people and costs $100 made in the US.

The facts are clear, if we continue on this route of exporting less and importing more, building economies in Third World Dictatorships, we will suffer. Because whatever we sell now, we will end up having to buy.

In the 1970s Hong Kong started to dominate the garment trade.

This is what the West built.

muthisdev · 02-26-2016, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiamiBoyz

I'm so hard right now.

kane · 02-26-2016, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

I was at the supermarket today and at the self checkout there is always a guy or girl standing there to reset or clear the errors... basically they just stand there with the remote and text on their phones.

They do this thing where they pick up the little baskets and put them by the exit (not the entrance for customers walking into the store) because its easier for them. Then of course, people change course when walking in and grab and basket and come in through, then routing through all the people trying to check out and leave.... because thats where they put all the baskets. Basically, its like 10 extra paces to put them all near the entrance for the convenience of the customer and can't be bothered.

I was actually thinking about this today, thinking "wow, your job is basically to babysit the technology that is literally replacing you and to occasionally gather baskets and put them near the entrance and you do both poorly". It struck me as being very funny that a guy is standing there essentially competing for his own jobs existence and even he would have a tough time arguing why his job should even exist at all.

The grocery story I frequent has one of these self-checkout areas and I use it regularly. There are almost always one of two people working at that station. One of them is very good. She helps open bags and always asks if you need help checking out or bagging anything, she keeps the area clean and even does the check out for some people who might not know how to use it. The other just stands there, like you said, doing little or nothing. Half the time she is off wandering around talking to people. I'll be using the kiosk and it will tell me the attendant has been notified to help me and I will see her come walking from 40 feet away where she was chatting and joking with some other employee. And she will likely wonder why the other girl will be promoted faster than her.

Magnetron · 02-26-2016, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

its silly to mention the person with his persistent defense of a liar and scammer shouldn't be questioning anothers character or intelligence? So.... uhm... Ok? I suppose...?

Additionally, like any emotional turd trying to foist Marxist ideals on others, you seem incapable of being honest, which makes sense i suppose since you have no argument. I don't want a "nation" of people to make less than a living wage. I'm not angry. I haven't said anything you've claimed i've said.

You sound more like your posturing for Kim Jong Il each time you post your made up nonsense.

You talk of this so called persistent defense as if you could quote it. But...... you can't. Strike Three, Dumbass.

All this smoke and mirrors to distract attention from an upload monkey who was among the first parasites to support thieving tubes, drinking the expired milk straight from the sagging man-teats of Fabian.

s

You are the turd who insists business owners can't afford to pass costs onto consumers because consumers like you will abandon them for the cheapest alternative. We've already had a lengthy discussion about this in a thread that went on for numerous pages involving L-Pink and Barefootsies.

Magnetron · 02-26-2016, 05:09 AM

When TheSquealer got an ulcer over the potential 25 cent increase in the price of his McFlopWhoppers

Whoops there it is.

Now back to our regular broadcast about bitching about poor people who unlike the wealthy individuals and soulless corporations only have power through protest and voting to manipulate the tax code.

Or in other words, Democracy.

Magnetron · 02-26-2016, 05:36 AM

Squealer, please tell us that when it comes to condoms, you don't demand society provides you with the cheapest product available.

I can't bear the thought of 'Merica being overrun with more little whiney dipshit Squealers in the backseats of cars shouting at clown faced drive-thru speakers.

trevesty · 02-26-2016, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

How about some sources to back up that claim?

No problem, but just looking all throughout history when it's happened and not seeing any bread lines and devastation like the GOP claims will happen should be pretty obvious.

http://cepr.net/documents/publicatio...ge-2013-02.pdf

Last I checked, Seattle isn't on fire or experiencing a horrible drop, but that's definitely what conservatives (falsely) predicted.

I don't normally listen to doom and gloom naysayers, though.. they sound like scared children more than anything.

Quote:

I don't see anything positive about that... democratic party is great at investing in overpriced projects of questionable benefit... probably $100M or more of my tax money will go to clean up some lead mines in some village I've never heard of and will never visit in my life... a project which is of questionable benefit that should cost $25M, instead of 100M... but few people will score $100k/year for that job (with benefits + overtime), and few local businessmen will get rich too, so all is good...

I'm all for cleaner environment but why am I paying to solve a local problem? shouldn't state/local taxes cover that? You are all excited about it, because you are not paying for it... if instead of federal tax $$, your property taxes would have been used to cover the costs of the cleanup, I'm sure you would be far less enthusiastic about the extra $1k or $2k in taxes you would have to pay...

You don't see anything positive about job creation? Like, actual job creation... not just a buzz word? Ok. Questionable benefit? Well, this and this and this and countless others disagree with you, so... I'll resort back to "keep telling yourself whatever you want to". Per federal law, it's the EPA's job. I wouldn't say I'm excited about it, but the entire idea of a social contract is for things like this. Assuming it really is $100M over 4 years, that's 20M per year, which means it costs you less than a dollar per year.

woj · 02-26-2016, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevesty

No problem, but just looking all throughout history when it's happened and not seeing any bread lines and devastation like the GOP claims will happen should be pretty obvious.

http://cepr.net/documents/publicatio...ge-2013-02.pdf

Last I checked, Seattle isn't on fire or experiencing a horrible drop, but that's definitely what conservatives (falsely) predicted.

I don't normally listen to doom and gloom naysayers, though.. they sound like scared children more than anything.

You made a claim: "The minimum wage, for example, always helps the economy.."

at best that study supports that the negative effects are "small" when minimum wage increase is "modest"... both are weasel words, doubling minimum wage to $15, like some are proposing, is not exactly "modest" increase, is it? and what's "small" effect anyway?

also, CEPR is a left leaning organization, so we all know that they only picked studies that support their views... and even with that bias, they still concluded that effects are negative (but "small") when minimum wage increase is "modest"...

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevesty

You don't see anything positive about job creation? Like, actual job creation... not just a buzz word? Ok. Questionable benefit? Well, this and this and this and countless others disagree with you, so... I'll resort back to "keep telling yourself whatever you want to". Per federal law, it's the EPA's job. I wouldn't say I'm excited about it, but the entire idea of a social contract is for things like this. Assuming it really is $100M over 4 years, that's 20M per year, which means it costs you less than a dollar per year.

You call it "job creation", but really it's just a temporary $$ give away at nearly $100k/year per person... I'm all for investing infrastructure, but the investment should be well planned out and efficient... there is no reason at all why government job should mean "well paying job"... it should be just a job, like any other...

Barry-xlovecam · 02-26-2016, 08:00 AM

Say the stock clerk or the cashier at the grocery store gets a wage increase from $11.00/hr to $15.00/hr? Or will that semi-skilled worker want a proportional wage increase to near $22.00 /hr?

There will be some inflationary impact -- the money has to come from somewhere. The grocery store may raise your retail price 5% or 10% maybe. Personally, I would not go hungry or buy less (quality or quantity). The median income and fixed income people would get the brunt of this wage cost increase.

On the negative side, anyone with no income receiving general assistance and/or food stamps will want an increase so they can eat. On the positive side, the better paid low income worker would spend their increased income on consumer products perhaps creating economic stimulus.

The minimum wage is a floor support of wages paid and not a government mandated benefit.

$10.15 seems a reasonable compromise to me.

Quote:

»New ItemExecutive Order (EO) 13658 established a minimum wage for certain Federal contractors. Under the EO, effective January 1, 2016, an hourly minimum wage of $10.15 for calendar year 2016 applies to all contracts subject to the Service Contract Act or the Davis Bacon Act for which the solicitation was issued on or after January 1, 2015. The EO minimum wage rate will be adjusted annually. Additional information on contractor requirements and worker protections under the EO is available at Compliance Assistance - Government Contracts - Wage and Hour Division (WHD) - U.S. Department of Labor.

woj · 02-26-2016, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Say the stock clerk or the cashier at the grocery store gets a wage increase from $11.00/hr to $15.00/hr? Or will that semi-skilled worker want a proportional wage increase to near $22.00 /hr?

There will be some inflationary impact -- the money has to come from somewhere. The grocery store may raise your retail price 5% or 10% maybe. Personally, I would not go hungry or buy less (quality or quantity). The median income and fixed income people would get the brunt of this wage cost increase.

On the negative side, anyone with no income receiving general assistance and/or food stamps will want an increase so they can eat. On the positive side, the better paid low income worker would spend their increased income on consumer products perhaps creating economic stimulus.

The minimum wage is a floor support of wages paid and not a government mandated benefit.

$10.15 seems a reasonable compromise to me.

"The strongest evidence suggests that the most important channels of adjustment are: [.....] reductions in wages of higher earners ("wage compression"); and small price increases. "

"Some employers may see their profits fall (along with those of their competitors)"

"Some employers may cut hours; others, fringe benefits; still others, the wages of highly paid workers. "

so...
1. those that chose to acquire some skills will tend to earn less
2. prices of goods will be higher
3. employer's profits will fall, reducing incentive to expand and/or start new businesses
4. those that stay employed likely will get their hours cut, along with any fringe benefits

those side effects sound very positive to me....

Barry-xlovecam · 02-26-2016, 11:38 AM

There are winners and losers in every economic situation ... I am more concerned about my customers having money to spend -- they will get it from the increased consumption.

A guy getting chump wages is not going to use his raise to fund his pension account or speculate in the market -- he will buy consumer goods that he has previously not been able to afford.

$10/hr will not be that inflationary $15/hr is unrealistic at this point in time.

Who the hell can you employ in the USA for less than $10/hr in your business anyway? A line cook at MacDonald's around here is earning that ...

Quote:

All associates hired before Jan. 1, 2016 will earn at least $10/hour.
New entry-level associates will continue to start at $9/hour and move to at least $10/hour after successfully completing the company’s new retail skills and training program known as Pathways.
Associates already earning more than $10/hour will receive an annual pay increase in February rather than waiting until their anniversary date.
Walmart is raising the starting rate of its non-entry level hourly pay bands. Anyone earning below the new minimum will automatically move up to the new minimum.
Associates at or above their pay band maximum will receive a one-time lump sum payment equal to 2 percent of their annual pay.
When these changes go into effect, Walmart’s average full-time hourly wage will be $13.38/hour. The average part-time hourly wage will be $10.58/hour.

How much are prices up at Walmart ? I rarely shop there ...

ITraffic · 02-26-2016, 11:56 AM

my buddy lives there and said the economy is booming and lots of work there, even entry level at the new min wage

the economic apocalypse based on so-called eternal and irrefutable economic laws did not materialize for some reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevesty

No problem, but just looking all throughout history when it's happened and not seeing any bread lines and devastation like the GOP claims will happen should be pretty obvious.

http://cepr.net/documents/publicatio...ge-2013-02.pdf

Last I checked, Seattle isn't on fire or experiencing a horrible drop, but that's definitely what conservatives (falsely) predicted.

I don't normally listen to doom and gloom naysayers, though.. they sound like scared children more than anything.

You don't see anything positive about job creation? Like, actual job creation... not just a buzz word? Ok. Questionable benefit? Well, this and this and this and countless others disagree with you, so... I'll resort back to "keep telling yourself whatever you want to". Per federal law, it's the EPA's job. I wouldn't say I'm excited about it, but the entire idea of a social contract is for things like this. Assuming it really is $100M over 4 years, that's 20M per year, which means it costs you less than a dollar per year.

woj · 02-26-2016, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

There are winners and losers in every economic situation ... I am more concerned about my customers having money to spend -- they will get it from the increased consumption.

I would guess your best customers are middle to middle-upper class, not the minimum wage workers... in the study that "trevesty" posted few posts earlier, the authors admit that:

"The strongest evidence suggests that the most important channels of adjustment are: [.....] reductions in wages of higher earners ("wage compression");..."

so your best customers would likely earn less as a result of minimum wage increases...

MaDalton · 02-26-2016, 12:10 PM

it's always awesome when people discuss minimum wage that either have no employees or employ outsourced indians

Rochard · 02-26-2016, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

And this is the future. There will be more auto check-outs and as we get used to them, they will need fewer people to tend to them. Fast food will become more automated, already one girl can sit on a machine that cleans the area it used to take 5 to do. Online Shopping will replace shop assistants, and the march towards lower wages for the bottom 60% will become the 70%.

The problem is Westerners think short term, strike today for wages that make the product uncompetitive, prefer to buy a mobile phone for $150 instead of $200 because it's made in the US. Or even buy a mobile phone that just phones people and costs $100 made in the US.

The facts are clear, if we continue on this route of exporting less and importing more, building economies in Third World Dictatorships, we will suffer. Because whatever we sell now, we will end up having to buy.

In the 1970s Hong Kong started to dominate the garment trade.

This is what the West built.

Interesting comments really.

I still think there will be a need for humans for the foreseeable future. There are some things that robots cannot replace. I read an article about garbage men making $120k a year, and that is one job that cannot be replaced by robots - just way too many different variables to picking up trash from the curb. Same thing with flipping burgers - Yeah, we have a robot do it but what happens when the hamburger breaks in half on the grill? It would be freaking mayhem.

I read an article this morning about Mercedes taking robots off of their assembly line because they cannot do what is required of them:
Why Mercedes is halting robots' reign on the production line - Chicago Tribune

As for the shopping, I've fully embraced shopping online - Love Amazon and their next day delivery. But for some things I need it RIGHT NOW. Of course, sometimes we just like touching products before we buy them.

I had a new stereo put in my car the other day; I would like to see a robot do that. Again, too many variables - can you imagine a robot trying to wire up my stereo to the power and then to my iPod in the glove compartment? Not gonna happen any time soon.

We already see robots doing tasks for us. I remember working fast food in the 1990s and during rush hour we had a person dedicated to just making drinks. Now they have a machine for that - The cashier pushes a button on the cash register and the drink is made before the order is complete. But yet we still need someone to put a lid on it and hand it to us.

trevesty · 02-26-2016, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITraffic

my buddy lives there and said the economy is booming and lots of work there, even entry level at the new min wage

the economic apocalypse based on so-called eternal and irrefutable economic laws did not materialize for some reason.

Yeah, that pretty much always happens. There hasn't been a "huge" increase before, and nobody sane is proposing a jump from $7.25 -> $15 in one fiscal year, despite what woj suggested.

It's fairly easy to do a quick jog through your memory for HS American History classes and think, "when did we have bread lines? did minimum wage cause it?" the answer is undoubtedly no. The only time that's happened is when the stock market was almost entirely deregulated and crashed in 1929. As with all people on the right, resistance to change is their entire ideology regardless of the topic. Translation: scared children.

Magnetron · 02-26-2016, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

it's always awesome when people discuss minimum wage that either have no employees or employ outsourced indians

What's also awesome is when upload monkeys work themselves up into a conservatizzy over statistics.

The amount of taxable income one generates is not necessarily an indication of how well an individual is capable of providing for himself and his family.

Case in point, the Amish here in Wisconsin generate very little in terms of taxable income. They don't collect any welfare and could give a goat's fart about what millionaires pay in taxes. What they do have is the skillset to survive any economic holocaust brought about by Bush administrations past and future.

I know a lot of people up here who don't bother with generating the taxable income necessary to exchange for the energy required to heat their homes. There's this concept of combining fire with wood that people have relied upon for hundreds of thousands of years before the 20th Century came along. And a convenience of having an outdoor wood burning stove means you don't have to pay anywhere from $50 to $100 monthly in trash pickup fees. Combined, that's roughly $3 to $5K in expenses eliminated per year ( depending on how cold the Winters get ). Cutting out the Middle Men by taking the initiative and doing some of the work yourself is not reflected in annual incomes.

Robbie · 02-26-2016, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevesty

Yeah, that pretty much always happens.

I wouldn't say that.

Seattle is a tech city. Home of Amazon and Microsoft. Take those two company's out of there and that economy collapses.

Try putting McDonalds workers at $15 an hour in any of the thousands of average communities in the United States and it wouldn't work out that well.

You have to have business and growth in an area for it to be successful. The market itself will drive most of that with no govt. interference at all.

For instance in some of those oil towns in North Dakota a few years back...there were so many people making so much money working for the oil companies that Walmart, fast food joints, bars...pretty much every service industry in town were paying over $20 an hour for b.s. unskilled labor jobs.

They had to compete to get people to work for them.

Speaking of the market...waiters in Seattle were ALREADY the second highest paid in the country before the minimum wage increase.
Even now the minimum wage in Seattle is $12 an hour. They are raising it each year by a dollar.

It will hit $15 an hour in 2019.

And there will probably be very little economic disturbance in Seattle because of the roaring economy there courtesy of Amazon and Microsoft.

Try that in Chattanooga, Tenn. or Detroit Michigan or Columbia, South Carolina, or Miami Fla. and the result would be very different.

Paul Markham · 02-26-2016, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Say the stock clerk or the cashier at the grocery store gets a wage increase from $11.00/hr to $15.00/hr? Or will that semi-skilled worker want a proportional wage increase to near $22.00 /hr?

There will be some inflationary impact -- the money has to come from somewhere. The grocery store may raise your retail price 5% or 10% maybe. Personally, I would not go hungry or buy less (quality or quantity). The median income and fixed income people would get the brunt of this wage cost increase.

On the negative side, anyone with no income receiving general assistance and/or food stamps will want an increase so they can eat. On the positive side, the better paid low income worker would spend their increased income on consumer products perhaps creating economic stimulus.

The minimum wage is a floor support of wages paid and not a government mandated benefit.

$10.15 seems a reasonable compromise to me.

Absolutely right. Also, the people on just above the minimum will demand a wage rise, as will those just above them, and it snowballs.

Think back to the 70s and the average living standards, wages and benefits. It's taken 40 years to get here and it will take a long time to get out. Should we not change, China and maybe Russia will grow in power. And that's scary.

Quote:

There are winners and losers in every economic situation ... I am more concerned about my customers having money to spend -- they will get it from the increased consumption.

A guy getting chump wages is not going to use his raise to fund his pension account or speculate in the market -- he will buy consumer goods that he has previously not been able to afford.

Not if those goods are imported and the girl selling them is on minimum wage or it comes via Amazon. The Mall, shop, and the Brand Owner making billions all win. This model died in the late 80s.

Paul Markham · 02-26-2016, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

Interesting comments really.

I still think there will be a need for humans for the foreseeable future. There are some things that robots cannot replace. I read an article about garbage men making $120k a year, and that is one job that cannot be replaced by robots - just way too many different variables to picking up trash from the curb. Same thing with flipping burgers - Yeah, we have a robot do it but what happens when the hamburger breaks in half on the grill? It would be freaking mayhem.

I read an article this morning about Mercedes taking robots off of their assembly line because they cannot do what is required of them:
Why Mercedes is halting robots' reign on the production line - Chicago Tribune

As for the shopping, I've fully embraced shopping online - Love Amazon and their next day delivery. But for some things I need it RIGHT NOW. Of course, sometimes we just like touching products before we buy them.

I had a new stereo put in my car the other day; I would like to see a robot do that. Again, too many variables - can you imagine a robot trying to wire up my stereo to the power and then to my iPod in the glove compartment? Not gonna happen any time soon.

We already see robots doing tasks for us. I remember working fast food in the 1990s and during rush hour we had a person dedicated to just making drinks. Now they have a machine for that - The cashier pushes a button on the cash register and the drink is made before the order is complete. But yet we still need someone to put a lid on it and hand it to us.

It's already in process.

Automated fast food kitchen

65 years ago.

It was like this whenI visited it on a school trip 1965.

There will be two main levels of jobs. The high skilled and the low skilled.

No one is safe.

Paul Markham · 02-26-2016, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I wouldn't say that.

Seattle is a tech city. Home of Amazon and Microsoft. Take those two company's out of there and that economy collapses.

Try putting McDonalds workers at $15 an hour in any of the thousands of average communities in the United States and it wouldn't work out that well.

Try taking millions of good jobs out of a continent and transferring them to another. Leaving only McDonalds level and those at the very top.

Quote:

You have to have business and growth in an area for it to be successful. The market itself will drive most of that with no govt. interference at all.

Not true. It needs Government interference to keep those jobs in the US or tax imports to level the playing field.

Quote:

For instance in some of those oil towns in North Dakota a few years back...there were so many people making so much money working for the oil companies that Walmart, fast food joints, bars...pretty much every service industry in town were paying over $20 an hour for b.s. unskilled labor jobs.

Works for countries like Saudi, not for places like Seattle, should Amazon and Microsoft decide to move to China.

Quote:

Speaking of the market...waiters in Seattle were ALREADY the second highest paid in the country before the minimum wage increase.
Even now the minimum wage in Seattle is $12 an hour. They are raising it each year by a dollar.

It will hit $15 an hour in 2019.

And there will probably be very little economic disturbance in Seattle because of the roaring economy there courtesy of Amazon and Microsoft.

Try that in Chattanooga, Tenn. or Detroit Michigan or Columbia, South Carolina, or Miami Fla. and the result would be very different.

Absolutely. The future of the US economy now relies on big business to not shift even more jobs to the Third World. And so far it's not working out great for so many.

Who can you trust more, big business or politicians that have to answer to the people?

TheSquealer · 02-26-2016, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnetron

I know a lot of people up here who don't bother with generating the taxable income necessary to exchange for the energy required to heat their homes. There's this concept of combining fire with wood that people have relied upon for hundreds of thousands of years before the 20th Century came along. And a convenience of having an outdoor wood burning stove means you don't have to pay anywhere from $50 to $100 monthly in trash pickup fees. Combined, that's roughly $3 to $5K in expenses eliminated per year ( depending on how cold the Winters get ). Cutting out the Middle Men by taking the initiative and doing some of the work yourself is not reflected in annual incomes.

you're very right. if only we could all go back to living in the stone age as a method to correct economic growth and wage problems in the year 2015.

lets get 7 billion people burning wood as an energy solution - apart from the comedy of the idea itself, that will also provide endless humor as your own team then bitches about cutting down trees, global warming etc and i can't wait for the buffalo hunts and growing cabbage and turnips. a few hundred people hunted buffalo into extinction but i'm 7,000,000,000 people will figure out how to make it work. thanks for the game plan, liberal genius. you've opened my eyes. now all we need is a planet which could facilitate this new stone age approach and the insane demand on the environment 7 billion people living in the stone age creates.

you've never ran a business. you have no idea how to run a business. you've never employed people - i've owned companies with hundreds. only sniveling losers at the bottom of the pile think they can arbitrarily dictate how a business can be run or what its margins can be or what its costs can be. you've never ran a company, so you have no idea at all of what you are even saying when it comes to the economics of employment and producing a product.

yay for liberal economic winning!!

congrats genius - now you just need to outlaw automation as you continue to attempt to legislate increased costs of business and are thwarted every step of the way by brilliant people who believe in entrepreneurship, believe in themselves, believe in people, believe in building something and in overcoming every obstacle put before them and that understand that a workers value is determined by the market, their experience, skillset, capabilities and motivation to work... and as you fail every step of the way, you can keep calling me "angry" and "greedy" and an "exploiter" and all the other silly lies you tell yourself to deflect attention from the absurdity of your own long discredited positions and naive views on a subject you know nothing about.

Robbie · 02-26-2016, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Not true. It needs Government interference to keep those jobs in the US or tax imports to level the playing field.

Paul...you have it backwards.

It doesn't need govt. INTERFERENCE. It needs govt. to STOP interfering. STOP overtaxing. And create an environment that brings business back to the U.S.
The govt. trying to create artificial wage hikes is the exact opposite of that.

The U.S. govt. is largely anti-business. And it does it on purpose so that big business will PAY the crooked Senators and Representatives in order to succeed.

That has to stop. It shouldn't be so hard to start a new business in the U.S.

I've owned a couple of brick and mortar businesses and strip mall rentals in city limits. It's a nightmare. You are paying every inspector for the city, the county, the state, and the feds every time you turn around. Not to mention giving them "free" shit left and right to stay on their good side.

And then after you're done paying fees to all of them...they turn around and tax the fuck out of you on top of that.
And now they want to force you to pay $15 an hour to unskilled labor?

It's the opposite of what should be happening to get the economy rolling again.

Magnetron · 02-26-2016, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

you're very right. if only we could all go back to living in the stone age as a method to correct economic growth and wage problems in the year 2015.

lets get 7 billion people burning wood as an energy solution - apart from the comedy of the idea itself, that will also provide endless humor as your own team then bitches about cutting down trees, global warming etc and i can't wait for the buffalo hunts and growing cabbage and turnips. a few hundred people hunted buffalo into extinction but i'm 7,000,000,000 people will figure out how to make it work. thanks for the game plan, liberal genius. you've opened my eyes. now all we need is a planet which could facilitate this new stone age approach and the insane demand on the environment 7 billion people living in the stone age creates.

you've never ran a business. you have no idea how to run a business. you've never employed people - i've owned companies with hundreds. only sniveling losers at the bottom of the pile think they can arbitrarily dictate how a business can be run or what its margins can be or what its costs can be. you've never ran a company, so you have no idea at all of what you are even saying when it comes to the economics of employment and producing a product.

yay for liberal economic winning!!

congrats genius - now you just need to outlaw automation as you continue to attempt to legislate increased costs of business and are thwarted every step of the way by brilliant people who believe in entrepreneurship, believe in themselves, believe in people, believe in building something and in overcoming every obstacle put before them and that understand that a workers value is determined by the market, their experience, skillset, capabilities and motivation to work... and as you fail every step of the way, you can keep calling me "angry" and "greedy" and an "exploiter" and all the other silly lies you tell yourself to deflect attention from the absurdity of your own long discredited positions and naive views on a subject you know nothing about.

Who said anything about everyone on the planet burning wood?

I gave an example of what some people do to provide for themselves that isn't reflected in your silly annual income stats.

Jeez Louise, what a dumbfuck you are.

TheSquealer · 02-26-2016, 06:32 PM

i know i'm dumb, please share more Amish analogies and examples to show how well you understand macro-economics. I want to know that the tax dollars I and everyone i know which was spent subsidizing your life and that of everyone you know, is well spent.

Magnetron · 02-26-2016, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

i know i'm dumb, please share more Amish analogies and examples to show how well you understand macro-economics. I want to know that the tax dollars I and everyone i know which was spent subsidizing your life and that of everyone you know, is well spent.

After several years we finally agree on something.

Yes, you are dumb.

Magnetron · 02-26-2016, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

i know i'm dumb, please share more Amish analogies and examples to show how well you understand macro-economics. I want to know that the tax dollars I and everyone i know which was spent subsidizing your life and that of everyone you know, is well spent.

BTW

The last offline business I ran was 8 years back. It had three employees - Me, Myself and I. We made residential service calls. 15 minutes of labor for $35. Our only expense was fuel. One tool was required. Only a couple of parts to keep in stock.

Prior to that in the early 80's, I procured martial arts weapons such as shurikens and nunchucks for my fellow grade schoolers. You could catalogue order just about anything without age restrictions back in those days.

And somewhere in between, I sold collectible comic books and sports cards for several years until greedy twats drove that industry into the ground. Similar in fashion to the adult industry with the devaluation of merchandise.

Otherwise, I've worked unskilled labor jobs for as much as $17 hourly with free medical, matched 401Ks and yearly bonuses.

Robbie · 02-26-2016, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnetron

Otherwise, I've worked unskilled labor jobs for as much as $17 hourly with free medical, matched 401Ks and yearly bonuses.

Who hired you to do grunt work and overpaid for it? Not trying to fight with you. Just wondering who you worked for that did all of that? And WHY would they do all of that.
If you were truly doing unskilled labor then your value would have been next to nothing and they could have hired a thousand other guys waiting in line to do the job for below minimum wage.
EDIT: Unless you were in a "boom town" like one of the oil towns in North Dakota or Texas over the last few years where there were so many high paying oil jobs that the service industry had to pay high salary's to get anyone to do things like work at Walmart, fast food, etc. in order to get people to work for them.

MetaMan · 02-26-2016, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnetron

BTW

The last offline business I ran was 8 years back. It had three employees - Me, Myself and I. We made residential service calls. 15 minutes of labor for $35. Our only expense was fuel. One tool was required. Only a couple of parts to keep in stock.

Prior to that in the early 80's, I procured martial arts weapons such as shurikens and nunchucks for my fellow grade schoolers. You could catalogue order just about anything without age restrictions back in those days.

And somewhere in between, I sold collectible comic books and sports cards for several years until greedy twats drove that industry into the ground. Similar in fashion to the adult industry with the devaluation of merchandise.

Otherwise, I've worked unskilled labor jobs for as much as $17 hourly with free medical, matched 401Ks and yearly bonuses.

Honest question. What is it like being a full fledged loser?

Robbie · 02-26-2016, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetaMan

Honest question. What is it like being a full fledged loser?

I know you're arguing with this guy and that's meant to be mean-spirited.

But it sounds to me like the guy has worked hard and made his way through life so far. I'd call that being a "winner". Especially compared to the people who are busy taking govt. checks when they could be working.

No need to get personal with him. At least he used his mind and skills and worked for his money. These days that's starting to become less and less the case.

Paul Markham · 02-27-2016, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Paul...you have it backwards.

It doesn't need govt. INTERFERENCE. It needs govt. to STOP interfering. STOP overtaxing. And create an environment that brings business back to the U.S.
The govt. trying to create artificial wage hikes is the exact opposite of that.

The U.S. govt. is largely anti-business. And it does it on purpose so that big business will PAY the crooked Senators and Representatives in order to succeed.

That has to stop. It shouldn't be so hard to start a new business in the U.S.

I've owned a couple of brick and mortar businesses and strip mall rentals in city limits. It's a nightmare. You are paying every inspector for the city, the county, the state, and the feds every time you turn around. Not to mention giving them "free" shit left and right to stay on their good side.

And then after you're done paying fees to all of them...they turn around and tax the fuck out of you on top of that.
And now they want to force you to pay $15 an hour to unskilled labor?

It's the opposite of what should be happening to get the economy rolling again.

Big business spends billions buying politicians, to get an anti-business government.

I can list the disasters caused by not enough Government control, can you remember a few?

Paul Markham · 02-27-2016, 12:17 AM

Quote:

And then after you're done paying fees to all of them...they turn around and tax the fuck out of you on top of that.
And now they want to force you to pay $15 an hour to unskilled labor?

If you want the entire country to operate, someone has to pay taxes. Or they're provided by the private sector. What do you know that the private sector provides cheaper and better then the public sector?

Taxes are largely spent in the country they're raised in, Ensuring the money circulates around that country. Go the private sector route and foreign countries enter the market, so some of the revenue leaves the country.

Paying fees to regulate businesses stops Gulf oil rigs exploding, the entire banking sector crashing, North Dakota Oil companies not poisoning the water supply, killing workers and keeping the drinking water in Michigan fit for human consumption. Seems you need more control, not less.

Low skilled labour and the erosion of low skilled jobs is a serious long-term problem for the country. Not for big businesses. So why does an anti-business government allow it? And it does by weak immigration laws, penalties for employing workers and landlords. But you want less Government interference.

Why not just come out and say you want to make more money today, be taxed less and to hell with the future. The future's now and our markets are shrinking.

Magnetron · 02-27-2016, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetaMan

Honest question. What is it like being a full fledged loser?

The Don Rickles of GFY strikes again.

Magnetron · 02-27-2016, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I know you're arguing with this guy and that's meant to be mean-spirited.

But it sounds to me like the guy has worked hard and made his way through life so far. I'd call that being a "winner". Especially compared to the people who are busy taking govt. checks when they could be working.

No need to get personal with him. At least he used his mind and skills and worked for his money. These days that's starting to become less and less the case.

Elvis could walk in here wearing a jumpsuit with 24 carat gold sequins and a pocketful of panties - the same people with all limited vocabulary of a sign language gorilla would begin shaking the banana trees and beating their chests grunting, You broke loser! You broke loser! It's all they know.

MetaMan · 02-27-2016, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I know you're arguing with this guy and that's meant to be mean-spirited.

But it sounds to me like the guy has worked hard and made his way through life so far. I'd call that being a "winner". Especially compared to the people who are busy taking govt. checks when they could be working.

No need to get personal with him. At least he used his mind and skills and worked for his money. These days that's starting to become less and less the case.

I think you have me confused. I dont look down on anyone who works and tries to earn an honest living.

Ive defended fast food workers on here before and stated that they are at least going to work everyday and working for a living. I would never look down on someone for this.

Where he loses me and which i think he is a "loser" is his socialist attitude. To me this line of thinking is very dangerous and there is to much of it floating around these days.

I have family who grew up in communist countries and let me tell you that they never voted for or dared to align themselves with a socialist style of thinking. To them and to me it is an open door to communism.

If you want to work hard and make it in your life fine. But when you want a system to continually create an "evening" of everything with no real additional skill set or rewarded risk... then yes you are a loser.

Having a socialist mentality is not ok with me. It ruins countries, chases away innovators and purposely punishes risk takers.

To propose this style of thinking in the USA is blasphemy. People like him prefer everyone else be brought down to a certain level. Instead of finding his own way to move up.

So yes he is a loser. Not for working and trying. But for living in the USA and focusing his energy on a socialist mentality in the end keeping himself down.

tony286 · 02-27-2016, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muad'Dib

most of those taxes go to support worthless dindus and brassmonkeys, who are a drain on the society

actually they don't ,not even close.

tony286 · 02-27-2016, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Big business spends billions buying politicians, to get an anti-business government.

I can list the disasters caused by not enough Government control, can you remember a few?

Thank you, small gov is the bullshit they tell the little people to get them to vote for politician they want.

L-Pink · 02-27-2016, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnetron

.

Otherwise, i've worked unskilled labor jobs for as much as $17 hourly with free medical, matched 401ks and yearly bonuses.

???

.

TheSquealer · 02-27-2016, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L-Pink

???

.

What? You don't understand why that makes him an expert on macro economics, taxes and the economic realities of running a large, floundering corporation in a down economy? Whats not to understand?? "i once had a menial job" = "I know how to run McDonalds".

MetaMan · 02-27-2016, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

Thank you, small gov is the bullshit they tell the little people to get them to vote for politician they want.

When people speak of small government they are NOT talking about eliminating every single department of the government, they are speaking about cutting down government waste.

How did the "disaster relief" work out for the people effected by Katrina?

The issue is the BILLIONS put to waste with almost 0 oversight.

Believers in small government believe that the system does not require to be so large, far reaching and wasteful which it DOES NOT.

The entire point about big government is that departments PURPOSELY waste money so that next fiscal year they can claim that they need larger funding. If they do not spend the full amount + more their funding is normally reduced.

big gov is the bullshit they tell the little people to get them to vote for politician they want. See what i did there?

Magnetron · 02-27-2016, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L-Pink

???

.

Back in 2002 I was being paid $17 hourly to drive a non CDL truck and deliver things.

Positions don't come more unskilled than that.

Included was

- free Health Insurance
- 401K in which whatever I invested was matched dollar for dollar
- a $2K year end bonus

Does that clear up your multiple question marks?

MetaMan · 02-27-2016, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnetron

Back in 2002 I was being paid $17 hourly to drive a non CDL truck and deliver things.

Positions don't come more unskilled than that.

Included was

- free Health Insurance
- 401K in which whatever I invested was matched dollar for dollar
- a $2K year end bonus

Does that clear up your multiple question marks?

So you received an extremely large benefit package for an admittedly extremely unskilled position and you believe somehow the system is unfair and should be setup to benefit you even more? gotcha!

02-25-2016, 04:17 PM	#52
LetterTwenty7 Porn SEO Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: EU Posts: 1,813	How can they calculate that? I'm pretty sure that it's more than 45, similar like here in Europe. __________________ Success stories of porn webmasters - one click away: Discover how top porn sites grow their organic traffic! [email protected] \| Teams: lettertwenty7 \| Telegram: https://t.me/LT7_Digital

02-25-2016, 06:33 PM	#54
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,959	"Workers earning less than a living wage". Would that be because they don't have the needed skills or education and are working bottom of the ladder jobs as a result? I don't think any business should be forced to pay someone more than what they are worth. And if you are unskilled labor...then you will earn unskilled labor wages. I don't think it's the employers lot in life to be the "daddy" to full grown adults. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

02-26-2016, 05:09 AM	#63
Magnetron Lord High Groundhog Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Bumblefuck, USA Posts: 1,841	When TheSquealer got an ulcer over the potential 25 cent increase in the price of his McFlopWhoppers Whoops there it is. Now back to our regular broadcast about bitching about poor people who unlike the wealthy individuals and soulless corporations only have power through protest and voting to manipulate the tax code. Or in other words, Democracy. __________________ . Approach the mirrored reflection saying his name three times : "Butcher .... Butcher .... Butcher ....." and wait to see if this Bogeyman urban legend manifests in the background, looming over shoulder While your neighbors were busy killing off everyone in the neighborhood with your own butcher knife in hand concealed behind your back you stood for ever before the window saying nothing

02-26-2016, 05:36 AM	#64
Magnetron Lord High Groundhog Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Bumblefuck, USA Posts: 1,841	Squealer, please tell us that when it comes to condoms, you don't demand society provides you with the cheapest product available. I can't bear the thought of 'Merica being overrun with more little whiney dipshit Squealers in the backseats of cars shouting at clown faced drive-thru speakers. __________________ . Approach the mirrored reflection saying his name three times : "Butcher .... Butcher .... Butcher ....." and wait to see if this Bogeyman urban legend manifests in the background, looming over shoulder While your neighbors were busy killing off everyone in the neighborhood with your own butcher knife in hand concealed behind your back you stood for ever before the window saying nothing

02-26-2016, 12:10 PM	#72
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02-25-2016, 04:02 PM	#51
Google Expert Webmaster Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 14,294	most of those taxes go to support worthless dindus and brassmonkeys, who are a drain on the society

02-26-2016, 06:32 PM	#83
TheSquealer BANNED Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In Your Head Posts: 25,153	i know i'm dumb, please share more Amish analogies and examples to show how well you understand macro-economics. I want to know that the tax dollars I and everyone i know which was spent subsidizing your life and that of everyone you know, is well spent. __________________ . Yes, fewer illegal immigrants working equates to more job opportunities for American citizens. Rochard