Business The porn industry is thriving, just not with out of touch morons. So many business models available.

[JSWENSON]

The days of underpaying models and overselling boring websites are gone. It's always been clear that a large chunk of the industry was made up of cash grabbing people or those that copied a working model and refuse to change a single damn thing.

But where in the hell are the innovators? There are so many things that could be done to embrace what is going on lately and as far as I can tell only Chaturbate seems to have any sense at all when it comes to this.

[sadiedazzle]

I have to say vr is doing well. Never been sorry about figuring out how to make it work. But that is a tech grind, and the business model is different than the average hire a model pay site, but if you produce really good work, you can make really good money. A lot of people have tried and failed but those of us who have morphed and learned have prospered. Anyone have any questions about vr, pm me. I would be pleased to help.

[JSWENSON]

I'm waiting on VR advancements in the next few years, will be fun.

[sadiedazzle]

Originally Posted by JSWENSON

I'm waiting on VR advancements in the next few years, will be fun.

I was just at a global vr conference and all the major players from investors to producers were there. It doesn't look like there will be any major unexpected advances in the next couple of years. AI is interesting, but porn is soooooo far away from that being either practical or necessary. The Oculus Go is the current game changer and I think this Christmas it will be under a few trees. But the difference in uptake of the sales of particularly the Go and Quest is more than encouraging and very noticeable in sales. I can really tell a lot by the questions we get from customers and their remarks that they have settled in and are comfortable with the tech now.

[plsureking]

Originally Posted by JSWENSON

The days of underpaying models and overselling boring websites are gone.

not sure what your point is, although i'm sure you have one

you want to overpay the models and then undersell the website? let me know how that pans out lol

Originally Posted by JSWENSON

There are so many things that could be done to embrace what is going on lately and as far as I can tell only Chaturbate..

then you mention a cam site, which zero people have said are dying......

why not list a couple of those "many" things you KNOW will revolutionize the industry?



#

[JSWENSON]

Originally Posted by plsureking

not sure what your point is, although i'm sure you have one

you want to overpay the models and then undersell the website? let me know how that pans out lol

You're doing a great job of proving my point. If overpaying models and underselling websites is the takeaway then you've missed the entire point.

Porn is larger than ever. Pretty sure paysite joins are not higher than ever. That is because the distribution has evolved but aside from one shit implementation and Chaturbate I have seen zero companies adapt in any decent way.

There are literally thousands of ways to get with the times. I was hoping to spur a business conversation but looks like I'm 10 years late on GFY.

[mikeet]

Originally Posted by JSWENSON

You're doing a great job of proving my point. If overpaying models and underselling websites is the takeaway then you've missed the entire point.

Porn is larger than ever. Pretty sure paysite joins are not higher than ever. That is because the distribution has evolved but aside from one shit implementation and Chaturbate I have seen zero companies adapt in any decent way.

There are literally thousands of ways to get with the times. I was hoping to spur a business conversation but looks like I'm 10 years late on GFY.

I totally see what your getting at here and def agree with you
Nice pic btw

[plsureking]

Originally Posted by JSWENSON

You're doing a great job of proving my point. If overpaying models and underselling websites is the takeaway then you've missed the entire point.

Porn is larger than ever. Pretty sure paysite joins are not higher than ever. That is because the distribution has evolved but aside from one shit implementation and Chaturbate I have seen zero companies adapt in any decent way.

There are literally thousands of ways to get with the times. I was hoping to spur a business conversation but looks like I'm 10 years late on GFY.

ya gfy still has biz convos and there are more industry veterans here than anywhere else - and more came back this year than i've seen since 2010. i've had several new PornCMS clients this year that "have been out for a long time and want to get back into it."

my point was and still is, what ideas can you bring to the table? your reply had the same value as your OP. all complaints no solutions.

the only value so far is that hot pic of your sister

#

[The Porn Nerd]

Believe me, ALL revenue streams and avenues of reach have been explored (and conquered) by the largest porn companies and brains alive. There ARE NO unexplored business models. The porn biz has been reduced to:

Cams
Dating
Ad buys (cams, dick pills, games, toys)
Buying/Selling CJ and skimmed (shit) traffic
Paysites
Clip stores
VOD

In that order. If anything "new" caught on - VR, 3D, etc - believe me, porn would be all over it. Of course, if I'm missing something please add to the above list but that pretty much sums up "Adult" these days, and for the foreseeable future. Now how much an individual can profit from these revenue streams is really up to the individual. But creating new ones? Good luck.

[JSWENSON]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Believe me, ALL revenue streams and avenues of reach have been explored (and conquered) by the largest porn companies and brains alive. There ARE NO unexplored business models. The porn biz has been reduced to:

Cams
Dating
Ad buys (cams, dick pills, games, toys)
Buying/Selling CJ and skimmed (shit) traffic
Paysites
Clip stores
VOD

In that order. If anything "new" caught on - VR, 3D, etc - believe me, porn would be all over it. Of course, if I'm missing something please add to the above list but that pretty much sums up "Adult" these days, and for the foreseeable future. Now how much an individual can profit from these revenue streams is really up to the individual. But creating new ones? Good luck.

What an incorrect and defeatist view. There are girls sitting in their bedrooms conquering other avenues to dollar amounts higher than your entire network combined. While working alone.

[King Mark]

I've been out of adult completely for a year and then I simply added an onlyfans link to my sig one day recently just for shits and giggles since I have an account for mainstream purposes.

Ive managed to snag some adult earners. Guess I'm back in.

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by JSWENSON

What an incorrect and defeatist view. There are girls sitting in their bedrooms conquering other avenues to dollar amounts higher than your entire network combined. While working alone.

Well first, I am not a performer. Or a girl. I always lament that I wish there was a gay market for dudes crushing balloons or doing smoking fetish videos. I would spend my day doing weird-ass shit for Clips4Sale. LOL

But all those girls doing it alone in the bedrooms? They are doing so by taking advantage of the existing and current business models listed above. Most are doing cams, some are doing live chat, or phone sex, IG likes and so on. They have not invented anything. And what an individual model can do is not the same as what a company can do. I'm happy (on one level) that girls no longer need webmasters or pimps to get paid. But their situation doesn't apply to the rest of us.

[JSWENSON]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Well first, I am not a performer. Or a girl. I always lament that I wish there was a gay market for dudes crushing balloons or doing smoking fetish videos. I would spend my day doing weird-ass shit for Clips4Sale. LOL

But all those girls doing it alone in the bedrooms? They are doing so by taking advantage of the existing and current business models listed above. Most are doing cams, some are doing live chat, or phone sex, IG likes and so on. They have not invented anything. And what an individual model can do is not the same as what a company can do. I'm happy (on one level) that girls no longer need webmasters or pimps to get paid. But their situation doesn't apply to the rest of us.

My guy, I didn't say they invented shit. I said adult webmasters need to embrace new trends instead of fighting to keep a declining aspect of porn alive. This same shit happened with tubes and allowed a few companies to take over an insane chunk of the market.

Streaming games, putting on makeup, YouTube videos, Instagram, Patreon, selling content for Giftrocket or providing access through Snapchat or running Patreons etc. There is no reason that webmasters can't adopt some of these things and build on them but I just don't see it anywhere. Even in the cams market Chaturbate seems to be the only place that got on board with self promotion and not locking everything into a shitty Eastern European clusterfuck.

If you can't look at where trends are going and find a way to participate you need to get in the mindset you were in when you started building your network. You're busy looking for ways to keep billing $20 a month and these girls are making 50k a month at $5 a pop and up. Alone

[JSWENSON]

This train wreck has 2,954 PATRONS and makes money from multiple other sources concurrently.

https://www.patreon.com/TrishaTarantino

[JSWENSON]

[JSWENSON]

And if that were my sister I'd be committing thought crimes against humanity.

[HairyChick]

People don’t think by themselves and they copy popular ideas. They don’t market properly and then think the market will die. Good ideas can only go so far unless you can market them.

I see sites promoted here and wonder how they sell since they are boring and old. Marketing is the key and finding an audience to sell to vital.

Then again, people here boast of sales but delusions of grandeur aren’t lacking here.

[King Mark]

R Kelly's "girlfriend" just launched a patreon trickle tell-all page 10 hours ago since his money dried up:

https://www.patreon.com/Joycelynsavage

Already 974 patrons as of right now.

[JSWENSON]

Originally Posted by King Mark

R Kelly's "girlfriend" just launched a patreon trickle tell-all page 10 hours ago since his money dried up:

https://www.patreon.com/Joycelynsavage

Already 974 patrons as of right now.

Secrets coming out the closet. Coming out the closet.

And it's always been like that Pam but you think you'd see SOMETHING new within a 10 year time frame. Nope, just "how do I stop cancels" on this 1995 era porn site that costs more than Netflix with their 10 billion dollars in content.

[King Mark]

20 minutes later, 992

[plsureking]

Originally Posted by JSWENSON

My guy, I didn't say they invented shit. I said adult webmasters need to embrace new trends instead of fighting to keep a declining aspect of porn alive.

what makes you think they aren't besides your negativity?

i actually work with site owners every day and the top site owners are all on top of what the fuck is going on out there.

you aren't dropping any bombshells here, my guy

#

[JSWENSON]

Originally Posted by plsureking

what makes you think they aren't besides your negativity?

i actually work with site owners every day and the top site owners are all on top of what the fuck is going on out there.

you aren't dropping any bombshells here, my guy

#

Do you go back and read your posts while furiously masturbating?

[plsureking]

Originally Posted by JSWENSON

Do you go back and read your posts while furiously masturbating?

awww aren't you cute



#

[JSWENSON]

Originally Posted by plsureking

awww aren't you cute

#

And aren't you irrationally smarmy.

Link us to one of these evolved, cutting edge sites that is keeping up with the Kardashians and you can blow all of our minds while drumming up more business to the 46 people here with outdated websites. If it's really awesome maybe even Paul Markham will give it a whirl.

[King Mark]

2 hours later, 1060

[mce]

Tinder and Instagram botting for cam/dating sites are still going strong despite recent and ongoing API tweaks

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by JSWENSON

My guy, I didn't say they invented shit. I said adult webmasters need to embrace new trends instead of fighting to keep a declining aspect of porn alive. This same shit happened with tubes and allowed a few companies to take over an insane chunk of the market.

Streaming games, putting on makeup, YouTube videos, Instagram, Patreon, selling content for Giftrocket or providing access through Snapchat or running Patreons etc. There is no reason that webmasters can't adopt some of these things and build on them but I just don't see it anywhere. Even in the cams market Chaturbate seems to be the only place that got on board with self promotion and not locking everything into a shitty Eastern European clusterfuck.

If you can't look at where trends are going and find a way to participate you need to get in the mindset you were in when you started building your network. You're busy looking for ways to keep billing $20 a month and these girls are making 50k a month at $5 a pop and up. Alone

I am 100% on board with what you are saying promotion-wise. There are SO many "new ways" to get traffic, attention, etc, and I am indeed exploring ALL these options for 2020.

A major difference - and the power these models have over guys like me - is they ARE the content. The performer, etc. So they don't have to split anything with anybody (except the various platforms they may play on). So that's a great thing for the truly motivated model.

[JSWENSON]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

I am 100% on board with what you are saying promotion-wise. There are SO many "new ways" to get traffic, attention, etc, and I am indeed exploring ALL these options for 2020.

A major difference - and the power these models have over guys like me - is they ARE the content. The performer, etc. So they don't have to split anything with anybody (except the various platforms they may play on). So that's a great thing for the truly motivated model.

Oh yeah, but for every 1 that can manage their own shit there are 100 that don't mind sharing their tits but have the motivation of a Koala.

[fuzebox]

I concur

[thommy]

Originally Posted by JSWENSON

The days of underpaying models and overselling boring websites are gone. It's always been clear that a large chunk of the industry was made up of cash grabbing people or those that copied a working model and refuse to change a single damn thing.

But where in the hell are the innovators? There are so many things that could be done to embrace what is going on lately and as far as I can tell only Chaturbate seems to have any sense at all when it comes to this.

to look for an innovation in porn is not that easy.
porn is not like food, where they tell you in every news that this makes you cancer and that makes you healthy.

porn is not officially discussed and that makes the market very different to others.

you mention chaturbate ?
I wrote this concept of "tip cams" in 1999 and as I was not interested to run it by myself I was spreading the idea all around.

and it took more than 10 years til the first one adapted it.

porn itself is nothing that have a trend. same as fucking does not have.
either someone likes it or does not. and there are so many different people with so different taste that it is near to impossible to make "the perfect thing".

I was running a foot fetish site 20 years ago. the niche is not too small but the niche in the niche is the problem.
if you have content with a barfoot girl some will like it and others will vomit, because they like only feet in white socks. and it MUST be white and not yellow.
or check the SM niche - there are people who just phantasy about domination and they will run away when they see blood - others are the total opposite.

and this is why this solo models can/must charge more because their type, style and sexual outcome is oriented on a very small and limited group that fits EXACTLY.

they are the prove that a customer is willing to pay 100 dollar every month for 3 new videos of EXACTLY what he wants and he will not pay 20 dollars for 200 new videos that he gets within a membersite that have to reach a broader group.

innovations are not the product. amazon is not used because they deliver by drone.
FIRST they have to attract the user for a product and SECOND they deliver by drone and THAN it makes sense.

do you know what porn videos was the most sold in the world and made 100ds of millions in revenue over the years?

Pamela Anderson

Paris Hilton

if you would own a video in format 320x240 on wich you could see for 30 seconds the left nipple from the queen of england you would become multi millionaire with that.

[JSWENSON]

1) Tip cams isn't the good implementation, MFC was before Chaturbate. The non locked down, non asshole management is the good implementation. A cam girl can link to her own website, Twitter or anything else from Chaturbate and always could.

2) OnlyFans and similar kind of kick the legs out from other your overall argument since they make money by also embracing independent porn producers on up. Poorly implemented but enough by virtue of existing. They also don't try to keep 90% of the money while paying the models peanuts.

3)

[King Mark]

That girls tits are phenomenal

[JSWENSON]

Originally Posted by King Mark

That girls tits are phenomenal

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

A major difference - and the power these models have over guys like me - is they ARE the content. The performer, etc. So they don't have to split anything with anybody (except the various platforms they may play on). So that's a great thing for the truly motivated model.

That's the biggest change to porn in the recent years. Models doing the job of shooting themselves and promoting themselves. They don't need to share most of porn's earnings with affiliates who do little but submit their work to sites that already have the traffic. Then give them 50% for doing it.

The job of an affiliate is either rocket science and few can do it so it requires a big reward or it's not and requires little reward.

But the days of models to the level of Met Art, Bang Bus, Fake Taxi, Brazzers, DDF, Sapphic, Perfect Gonzo, etc are a long way off and to date no model has done that. If you reply surfers no longer buy that type of porn, go tell it to those sites, because they don't know.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by PamWinterReturns

People don’t think by themselves and they copy popular ideas. They don’t market properly and then think the market will die. Good ideas can only go so far unless you can market them.

I see sites promoted here and wonder how they sell since they are boring and old. Marketing is the key and finding an audience to sell to vital.

Then again, people here boast of sales but delusions of grandeur aren’t lacking here.

Producing the content the buyer wants is the most important thing. Then comes the marketing.

The soundbite of "If I had enough traffic I could sell shit" was stupid. No one with traffic sold shit, they sold the sites with the best conversions rates. Great content is easier to market than bad content and the biggest mistakes this industry made was all the sites paying peanuts to the core of the industry and then singing up the worth of marketing. Which is exactly what, what do you or any affiliate do that's so great?

[JSWENSON]

There he is with the shit take.

[JSWENSON]

Monthly subscription to ErinAshford. Easily cancel anytime.30.00 USD
1 month for 30.00 USD (recurring)

Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
All downloadable from Dropbox. PM me for a deal.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Producing the content the buyer wants is the most important thing.

aha and you know him?

great - tell him greetings

Then comes the marketing.

next bullshit - marketing starts LONG before a product is even planed.

The soundbite of "If I had enough traffic I could sell shit" was stupid. No one with traffic sold shit, they sold the sites with the best conversions rates. Great content is easier to market than bad content and the biggest mistakes this industry made was all the sites paying peanuts to the core of the industry and then singing up the worth of marketing. Which is exactly what, what do you or any affiliate do that's so great?

and bullshit again because this "if i have enough then i can serve all" is YOUR idea.
it leads to the fact that you are producing for a big group of buyers and taste.

what you and many other forget is that a paying customer does not count the number of updates in a site. the relation for him is, the number of updates that he really likes.
so if you update 1000 scenes per month and charge 30 US for it the user will have a very other maths. if he likes 50 of this 1000 videos it means that he does NOT like 950 of them.

so in a consumers mind he pays 100% but only gets 5% of what he wants.
he does not see that he pays just 0,60 per video he likes.

you really should not try to think marketing from your point of view.
marketing means mainly to UNDERSTAND HOW consumers are thinking and reacting.
and you definately don´t understand that.

[CaptainHowdy]

Originally Posted by JSWENSON

. . . One wishes they would last forever.

[Paul Markham]

By paying so much to affiliates, they will all bleat that this was fine, sites were forced to cut back on what surfers were looking for. Great porn.

Most content producers in 1998 to 2006 were those working for offline markets and paid very well for good work. It's pointless to say it wasn't deserved because they were still paid well. Magazine photographers earned $3,000 per set and up for solo girl, video producers were earning $5,000 and up.

This led to a situation were premium producers were earning so much they weren't tempted to come online, except a few who started their own sites. Those that gave the marketing to others were mostly disappointed with the results, the few who did succeed had in house traffic generation.

Cutting back on the quality of the product being sold led to people not believing the glowing words "marketeers" claimed the site offered, they only looked at the content. Even if they joined members would charge back if disappointed or not renew or not rejoin at a later date. Because they knew the content was crap and not updated often if at all.

Today most of those sites are gone and those left are the ones who bucked the trend and produced a great product, updated it regularly and tried to give it a twist the rest couldn't afford to.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by thommy

aha and you know him?

great - tell him greetings

What a stupid question.

There are 100s of different tastes the problem is satisfying all of them and making a profit. Going down the route of C4S won't pay enough to pay for quality production. So going the route of playing to those who like pretty flirty Teens Fucking will. Replace teens with any mainstream niche.

next bullshit - marketing starts LONG before a product is even planed.

How do you market before you know what the product is?

and bullshit again because this "if i have enough then i can serve all" is YOUR idea.
it leads to the fact that you are producing for a big group of buyers and taste.

what you and many other forget is that a paying customer does not count the number of updates in a site. the relation for him is, the number of updates that he really likes.
so if you update 1000 scenes per month and charge 30 US for it the user will have a very other maths. if he likes 50 of this 1000 videos it means that he does NOT like 950 of them.

so in a consumers mind he pays 100% but only gets 5% of what he wants.
he does not see that he pays just 0,60 per video he likes.

you really should not try to think marketing from your point of view.
marketing means mainly to UNDERSTAND HOW consumers are thinking and reacting.
and you definately don´t understand that.

100% right. The problem is for most they can't afford to produce what the client is willing to pay for if they're paying so much for affiliates to submit it to sites that have little traffic on. To get a constant product costs money because others were willing to pay more for it. Would you sell clicks to a person that could pay 10% of what others will pay? So why do you expect content producers to do that?

There's also another element to producing content. The variation between producers. This keeps every scene a producer delivers slightly different from other producers. This leads to a more exciting site and away from 1 shooter producing everything and all the content looking the same after a while. Also a larger selection of models. The problem was always there wasn't enough money to pay for the production, except with a few sites.

[Bosa]

Can a webmaster or company create and run Patreon accounts for girls?

[JSWENSON]

Originally Posted by Bosa

Can a webmaster or company create and run Patreon accounts for girls?

Of course.

[fuzebox]

Originally Posted by Bosa

Can a webmaster or company create and run Patreon accounts for girls?

ssshhhhhhhh

[Best-In-BC]

I agree but we all know the main reason for this is googles behavior towards young free porn sites.

[Bosa]

Originally Posted by JSWENSON

Of course.

Can you please elaborate. Do we create individual accounts with girls personal info or can we create one account and add girls to it?

Originally Posted by fuzebox

ssshhhhhhhh

Ok?

Can a company have an P account?

Can a individual have an P account and create content with other people in it?

Thanks

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Best-In-BC

I agree but we all know the main reason for this is googles behavior towards young free porn sites.

Google looks after the surfer first. That means sending them to established free sites and not sending them to new free sites. Maybe you should tell them to change it.

[InfoGuy]

Originally Posted by thommy

I wrote this concept of "tip cams" in 1999 and as I was not interested to run it by myself I was spreading the idea all around.

and it took more than 10 years til the first one adapted it.

Tipping strippers isn't a new concept by any means. You just took the idea from the brick and mortar world and applied it to the online market with cams.

Originally Posted by thommy

porn itself is nothing that have a trend. same as fucking does not have.
either someone likes it or does not. and there are so many different people with so different taste that it is near to impossible to make "the perfect thing".

I was running a foot fetish site 20 years ago. the niche is not too small but the niche in the niche is the problem.
if you have content with a barfoot girl some will like it and others will vomit, because they like only feet in white socks. and it MUST be white and not yellow.
or check the SM niche - there are people who just phantasy about domination and they will run away when they see blood - others are the total opposite.

and this is why this solo models can/must charge more because their type, style and sexual outcome is oriented on a very small and limited group that fits EXACTLY.

they are the prove that a customer is willing to pay 100 dollar every month for 3 new videos of EXACTLY what he wants and he will not pay 20 dollars for 200 new videos that he gets within a membersite that have to reach a broader group.

This is essentially long tail SEO marketing, targeting very specific customers with a very specific need. A considerable advantage for these niche models is their content and micro niche are not posted all over the web for free, so they don't have the same problem that large producers have with combating piracy. It all boils down to supply and demand.

[JSWENSON]

Originally Posted by InfoGuy

Tipping strippers isn't a new concept by any means. You just took the idea from the brick and mortar world and applied it to the online market with cams.



This is essentially long tail SEO marketing, targeting very specific customers with a very specific need. A considerable advantage for these niche models is their content and micro niche are not posted all over the web for free, so they don't have the same problem that large producers have with combating piracy. It all boils down to supply and demand.

They literally post hundreds / thousands of free pics and videos all over the damn internet. They upsell more but most want the interaction / experience.

Sheesh people, come on. /r/gonewild ever?

[JSWENSON]

Originally Posted by Bosa

Can you please elaborate. Do we create individual accounts with girls personal info or can we create one account and add girls to it?

You can do whatever the hell you want.

I raised money for a specific website once because I had fans and they wanted to help.