ccbill chargebacks

[timoxxl2]

i use ccbill as secondary billing partner.
with my first billing provider i use the new features of mastercard secure code and verified by visa and have a chargeback quote of 0.
but now the hackers switch to ccbill.
i asked them why they do not use these features to secure me from these chargebacks. they just dont reply my question. they keep answering that their chargeback quote is so low that there is no need to change anything.
but is is my money they are charging back!!!

what is your experience??

[The Heron]

Adding more security generally bothers consumers, if their chargebacks are low as is my experience then I'd rather not add them until necessary.

[seeandsee]

bump for ccbill

[ProjectNaked]

Originally Posted by timoxxl2

i use ccbill as secondary billing partner.
with my first billing provider i use the new features of mastercard secure code and verified by visa and have a chargeback quote of 0.
but now the hackers switch to ccbill.
i asked them why they do not use these features to secure me from these chargebacks. they just dont reply my question. they keep answering that their chargeback quote is so low that there is no need to change anything.
but is is my money they are charging back!!!

what is your experience??

revenues from fraudulent transactions > chargebacks

ccbill will not investigate fraud cases and really does not give a shit

[corvette]

Originally Posted by timoxxl2

i use ccbill as secondary billing partner.
with my first billing provider i use the new features of mastercard secure code and verified by visa and have a chargeback quote of 0.
but now the hackers switch to ccbill.
i asked them why they do not use these features to secure me from these chargebacks. they just dont reply my question. they keep answering that their chargeback quote is so low that there is no need to change anything.
but is is my money they are charging back!!!

what is your experience??

hi, i work at ccbill, can you forward me the emails, if you spoke to us via email? [email protected], id like to see the correspondence

So you know, over the years we have fine-tuned our system to allow the maximum amount of throughput while maintaining a low cb rate and cvv2 is one of many tools we use. Please contact me so that we can start a dialogue about this.

[amateurcanada]

Bump to ccbill, I recommend them as your primary CC process for all U.S. based transactions :D

[BV]

Originally Posted by ProjectNaked

revenues from fraudulent transactions > chargebacks

ccbill will not investigate fraud cases and really does not give a shit

They kill affiliate accounts for fraud. I had 2 killed last month.

[BV]

Originally Posted by timoxxl2

i use ccbill as secondary billing partner.
with my first billing provider i use the new features of mastercard secure code and verified by visa and have a chargeback quote of 0.
but now the hackers switch to ccbill.
i asked them why they do not use these features to secure me from these chargebacks. they just dont reply my question. they keep answering that their chargeback quote is so low that there is no need to change anything.
but is is my money they are charging back!!!

what is your experience??

If your only sending CCBill what your first processor spits back at them, then yah I can see how your secondary biller would have a higher CB ratio. That's pretty basic logic.

No matter who your secondary is it would be like that.

[ManHuntSteve]

CCBill are good people. I've dealt with them online and in person and have nothing but respect for their business practices. Their interface is a little dated, yeah, but they process the cash and do it safe and proper, which is what matters.

[timoxxl2]

Originally Posted by BV

If your only sending CCBill what your first processor spits back at them, then yah I can see how your secondary biller would have a higher CB ratio. That's pretty basic logic.

No matter who your secondary is it would be like that.

so the logical next step would be to switch them off completely.
but than all other sponsors should contact me, so i can refer them an billing partner where they will not have these chargebacks

[timoxxl2]

Originally Posted by corvette

hi, i work at ccbill, can you forward me the emails, if you spoke to us via email? [email protected], id like to see the correspondence

So you know, over the years we have fine-tuned our system to allow the maximum amount of throughput while maintaining a low cb rate and cvv2 is one of many tools we use. Please contact me so that we can start a dialogue about this.

you can contact me on icq if you like

[GoNe]

Originally Posted by timoxxl2

you can contact me on icq if you like

If you are genuinely intrested in getting closer to a solution to your problem with charebacks through CCBill then you should get back to Mark aka. corvette.

Mark can pull some strings over there. Just a friendly advice don't leave CCBill they are top notch but then nobody is perfect but what's great with CCBill is that they are willing to work with you.

I am not a CCBill employee but have been using them since 2004.

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by timoxxl2

so the logical next step would be to switch them off completely.
but than all other sponsors should contact me, so i can refer them an billing partner where they will not have these chargebacks

I think you may not have gotten what he said which is indeed true.
Your secondary biller will have a higher number of chargebacks and such over your primary.
If you have a third biller they will be higher than your first two.

When one processor says no to a transaction for whatever reason, odds are they have a valid reason to decline that purchase. Now if the next processor accepts that transaction they very well may not have the same data (reason) as your first processor did. Perhaps as an example that card holder has charged back before to your first processor to many times and has now been black listed.

[timoxxl2]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

I think you may not have gotten what he said which is indeed true.
Your secondary biller will have a higher number of chargebacks and such over your primary.
If you have a third biller they will be higher than your first two.

When one processor says no to a transaction for whatever reason, odds are they have a valid reason to decline that purchase. Now if the next processor accepts that transaction they very well may not have the same data (reason) as your first processor did. Perhaps as an example that card holder has charged back before to your first processor to many times and has now been black listed.

but the second should at least apply the security measures that the credit card companies offer to prevent fraud.
and especially if i ask them several times why they don´t just ignore my question and tell me that they do not have very much chargebacks.

with my webcam community chargebacks do not only mean loss of profit, but discussions with the models who want to get their money. but how can i know they are not the hackers behind that fraud?

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by timoxxl2

but how can i know they are not the hackers behind that fraud?

Who would this "they" be? Models or what?

It honestly sounds like this is really getting to you. You would not end up with the who is doing it via a third party biller though. Seems your best option would be to either just stick with the biller you have that participates in both the MasterCard and visa program and be done with it, or see if you do enough volume per month in sales to get yourself your own merchant account so you can run it how you wish and have all the information as well.

[Calvinguy]

Mastercard secure code and verified by visa only verify the initial charge. Recurring charges can still be chargedback.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Calvinguy

Mastercard secure code and verified by visa only verify the initial charge. Recurring charges can still be chargedback.

Sounds to me like he's running a webcam community. People are paying per minute to watch and chat with girls live. Then they are turning right around and pulling chargebacks. So there is NO recurring on a live chat.

That would be those innocent and naive surfers that everyone was talking about in the x-sell thread saying that they are too stupid to figure out a x-sell.

Yet, here this guy has surfers watching his shows and THEN charging back on him.

Which not only takes the money for the private cam show, pisses the girl off, but also costs him $55 for every chargeback on TOP of the money he already lost.

It is a problem with CC Bill.

For instance...I have a VOD system on our site. And yes our affiliates NATS code follows through to the VOD section and they get credit. And how it works is the surfer buys tokens and can then download individual scenes.

Well, I have the VOD section setup to only use CC Bill in the cascade. But I've had several surfers buy tokens, download the movies successfully, and then turn around and chargeback with CC Bill.

That should NOT be allowed to happen. They bought a product from me. Got the product. And then basically STOLE the product by charging back from CC Bill. And then cost me the chargeback fee on top of that.

So yes, I understand what the original poster of this thread is feeling.

[GregE]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

I think you may not have gotten what he said which is indeed true.
Your secondary biller will have a higher number of chargebacks and such over your primary.
If you have a third biller they will be higher than your first two.

That's exactly right.

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

Perhaps as an example that card holder has charged back before to your first processor to many times and has now been black listed.

Too many times?

I was under the impression that just one (1) chargeback was enough to get someone blacklisted forever.

[timoxxl2]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Sounds to me like he's running a webcam community. People are paying per minute to watch and chat with girls live. Then they are turning right around and pulling chargebacks. So there is NO recurring on a live chat.

That would be those innocent and naive surfers that everyone was talking about in the x-sell thread saying that they are too stupid to figure out a x-sell.

Yet, here this guy has surfers watching his shows and THEN charging back on him.

Which not only takes the money for the private cam show, pisses the girl off, but also costs him $55 for every chargeback on TOP of the money he already lost.

It is a problem with CC Bill.

For instance...I have a VOD system on our site. And yes our affiliates NATS code follows through to the VOD section and they get credit. And how it works is the surfer buys tokens and can then download individual scenes.

Well, I have the VOD section setup to only use CC Bill in the cascade. But I've had several surfers buy tokens, download the movies successfully, and then turn around and chargeback with CC Bill.

That should NOT be allowed to happen. They bought a product from me. Got the product. And then basically STOLE the product by charging back from CC Bill. And then cost me the chargeback fee on top of that.

So yes, I understand what the original poster of this thread is feeling.

that is exactly the problem ... but ccbill doesnt care .. they just say... our overall chargeback quote is rather low ... so it is bad luck for you.

[Barefootsies]

CCB has their sticking points like every other processor. Some that come to mind for me are..

1. Chargeback once. Get cut off from all other CCB sites.

I remember there was a site some time ago that had content on one of my models (their own shoot). I wanted to see it. I signed up for the site, and the whole membership area was broken. I mean you couldn't access anything.

I tried contacting the webmaster. No response.

Contacted CCB. They told me to contact the WM.

I tried again on WM, and CCB.

CCB refused to issue a refund, regardless of the site, and membership area being broken. I sent them all documentation on me trying to contact the other WM. It was escalated to a supervisor, and the STILL refused refund. In the end, I had to do a chargeback.

Fucking pathetic.

But like I said. They have issues like any other. All have an Achilles heel somewhere.

[Robbie]

Yeah a credit back should be a fucking PRIORITY with every biller. But I'm starting to think that they like the income they get from the chargeback fee. Matter of fact...several people have told me in confidence that CCBill aggressively disputes every chargeback and almost never actually gets nailed with one from their bank. But yet they still charge YOU with a chargeback. That's one of the reasons there are less chargebacks when you have your own merchant account. You learn real quick that your bank WILL dispute those chargebacks and get them stopped. With a third party processor you have no idea what's happening.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Yeah a credit back should be a fucking PRIORITY with every biller. But I'm starting to think that they like the income they get from the chargeback fee. Matter of fact...several people have told me in confidence that CCBill aggressively disputes every chargeback and almost never actually gets nailed with one from their bank. But yet they still charge YOU with a chargeback. That's one of the reasons there are less chargebacks when you have your own merchant account. You learn real quick that your bank WILL dispute those chargebacks and get them stopped. With a third party processor you have no idea what's happening.

2. Much like the $15.00 wire fee from CCB.

Many people have asked on this, and why other companies offer ACH for free, but CCB refuses. Very simple. Too much money they make on it. Almost everyone wants their money ASAP. So $15 per adds up.

3. Paying BEFORE major holidays. Again, Verotel and others do this. Funny how CCB never does. Guess that extra couple of days of interest adds up as well eh?

[Robbie]

Eh...I don't blame CC Bill for that. It's hard to suddenly shut off a source of revenue. And why should they? But the chargeback thing really does irk me. I'm not gonna crucify them for it though. Again...they are the ones who did the work to get to the point where they CAN stop the chargebacks. So in a way it's their right to reap the rewards of that work.

No, what I'm going to do is talk to them at a show and see if I can't get my stuff put on the "good" list. I'm gonna try and 'bro" my way around it. lol

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Eh...I don't blame CC Bill for that. It's hard to suddenly shut off a source of revenue. And why should they? But the chargeback thing really does irk me. I'm not gonna crucify them for it though. Again...they are the ones who did the work to get to the point where they CAN stop the chargebacks. So in a way it's their right to reap the rewards of that work.

No, what I'm going to do is talk to them at a show and see if I can't get my stuff put on the "good" list. I'm gonna try and 'bro" my way around it. lol

Buy some "bro" drinks, and buy your way to a better salad toss.

[timoxxl2]

this is way i put them secondary ... they charge me about double the fee which my own merchant account costs me.
and on top they are not able to protect me from credit card hackers and even refuse it.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Buy some "bro" drinks, and buy your way to a better salad toss.

BINGO! That's exactly what I'm gonna do! Paging Sean or Mark! Meet me at the CC Bill sponsored bar...I'd like to "buy" you both a drink and work out a deal.

[webmasterchecks]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Yeah a credit back should be a fucking PRIORITY with every biller. But I'm starting to think that they like the income they get from the chargeback fee.

thats funny, your saying that they dont issue refunds because they would prefer a chargeback, right now there is another thread going right now where somebodies complaining that they issue refunds too easily.

Originally Posted by Bold Venture

Their damn customer service refund policy sucks , refunds are issued based on who takes the call. It?s about damn time they institute an across the board refund procedure rather than leaving it to the discretion of some part time employee who thinks they did such a wonderful thing when all they did was take money from a hard working person.

[Robbie]

No, I shouldn't have said it like that...I rarely see a credit on CC Bill though. Mostly chargebacks when they happen. And as I said, I have that VOD system that exclusively uses CC Bill in the cascade. So the surfer buys tokens, downloads the scene. And I've had a few of those get chargebacks through CC Bill! That should NEVER happen.

I use phantomflicks for that VOD system and I can log in and see that "yes" the guy did download the vid successfully. It shows the byte size of the vid and the bytes downloaded and then gives you whether it's successful or not AND the surfer gets 5 more tries in case something happened during the download.

That should NEVER be a chargeback. That is simply a case of a surfer scamming. They figured out through experience that CC Bill will hand them back their money no questions asked. Hell, I haven't looked...but there seems to be a forum for just about every subject: Password thieves, uploading and downloading to torrents and tubes...and probably several threads out there about how to get memberships, downloads, and live chat and never really pay for it by charging back.

[timoxxl2]

Originally Posted by Robbie

No, I shouldn't have said it like that...I rarely see a credit on CC Bill though. Mostly chargebacks when they happen. And as I said, I have that VOD system that exclusively uses CC Bill in the cascade. So the surfer buys tokens, downloads the scene. And I've had a few of those get chargebacks through CC Bill! That should NEVER happen.

you are right and thats the reason why mastercard secure code is perfect. because they do not charge back for fraudster

[timoxxl2]

i will switch off ccbill and only process through my other billing partners who have no chargebacks because of mastercard secure code and verified by visa


i have no idea what ccbill wins by allowing people to charge the money back.

i hve visitors, first buying through the first processor and being honest and than choosing ccbill and charging back ... because it is so easy.

so i switch it off until they decide to keep up with the time and install this security feature.

[mynameisjim]

Just to be fair, I ran a mainstream e-commerce store for several years and those shitty chargebacks would happen all the time. A certain percentage of customers are just like that. Unless I had a signed delivery invoice, I could never fight it. Even if I had the email from the customer saying he actually received the item.

Of course, more customers would complain if they were forced to sign for a $20 item so I never used delivery confirmation.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by The Heron

Adding more security generally bothers consumers, if their chargebacks are low as is my experience then I'd rather not add them until necessary.

[sortie]

Crooks charge back all the time and crooks use stolen credit cards and the real
person charges back.

People used to bitch about CCbill "scrubbing" too hard.....so make up your mind what you
want. Hard scrubbing or a few charge backs; because those are your only choices.

[timoxxl2]

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

Just to be fair, I ran a mainstream e-commerce store for several years and those shitty chargebacks would happen all the time. A certain percentage of customers are just like that. Unless I had a signed delivery invoice, I could never fight it. Even if I had the email from the customer saying he actually received the item.

Of course, more customers would complain if they were forced to sign for a $20 item so I never used delivery confirmation.

of course you can fight it ... with mastercard secure code and verified by visa your sales are insured ... no more fraud chargebacks!!!
and ccbill knows about that ... but could not yet decide to install it for what reasons ever

[Va2k]

Originally Posted by timoxxl2

of course you can fight it ... with mastercard secure code and verified by visa your sales are insured ... no more fraud chargebacks!!!
and ccbill knows about that ... but could not yet decide to install it for what reasons ever

Ya know, at first I thought you were a idiot but then I started thinking and looking back at my shit, and I have to agree ccbill is lacking on this! It also seems if you're not milking someones prostate just right you don't get a head in this game either! You pay them the rape fee of 750.00 (visa*RAPE*) then the $375.00 for ccbill and $400.00 for epoch and you still have to fight tooth and nail just to get some security.... *SHRUGS* what can ya do though?

[INDY500DRIVER]

NO Visa Rape fee with us, no setup fees, rates from 6.5 to 9.95, and custom fraud scrubs, Nats, 24/7 customer support. Keep your rebills with whomever and send us your new stuff and Save...

Originally Posted by Fungus

Ya know, at first I thought you were a idiot but then I started thinking and looking back at my shit, and I have to agree ccbill is lacking on this! It also seems if you're not milking someones prostate just right you don't get a head in this game either! You pay them the rape fee of 750.00 (visa*RAPE*) then the $375.00 for ccbill and $400.00 for epoch and you still have to fight tooth and nail just to get some security.... *SHRUGS* what can ya do though?

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by timoxxl2

i will switch off ccbill and only process through my other billing partners who have no chargebacks because of mastercard secure code and verified by visa


i have no idea what ccbill wins by allowing people to charge the money back.

i hve visitors, first buying through the first processor and being honest and than choosing ccbill and charging back ... because it is so easy.

so i switch it off until they decide to keep up with the time and install this security feature.

I'm curious about how you conduct business.
Have you taken Mark up on his offer to contact him directly or do you just expect to bitch on GFY until your problem is magically solved?

[Va2k]

Originally Posted by INDY500DRIVER

NO Visa Rape fee with us, no setup fees, rates from 6.5 to 9.95, and custom fraud scrubs, Nats, 24/7 customer support. Keep your rebills with whomever and send us your new stuff and Save...

Sorry all I see is red flags going up! Reminds me of Ibill *shakes*

[INDY500DRIVER]

Yeah we have heard that, been around high risk for over 5 years now so I don't think we wil be going anywhere. Just starting to brand GTBill though over the pat 12 months. To each is own though!!! Your entiteld to opinions

Originally Posted by Fungus

Sorry all I see is red flags going up! Reminds me of Ibill *shakes*

[Va2k]

Originally Posted by INDY500DRIVER

Yeah we have heard that, been around high risk for over 5 years now so I don't think we wil be going anywhere. Just starting to brand GTBill though over the pat 12 months. To each is own though!!! Your entiteld to opinions

Well how can your company waive the visa fee's and other well known companies can't? Thats a no brainer!

[timoxxl2]

Originally Posted by Fungus

Ya know, at first I thought you were a idiot but then I started thinking and looking back at my shit, and I have to agree ccbill is lacking on this! It also seems if you're not milking someones prostate just right you don't get a head in this game either! You pay them the rape fee of 750.00 (visa*RAPE*) then the $375.00 for ccbill and $400.00 for epoch and you still have to fight tooth and nail just to get some security.... *SHRUGS* what can ya do though?

just find a partner that applies these security features

[Phil]

ccbill security = zero. I can use my Citibank virtual card with Sarah Palin name, address and zip code and it will be approved.

[timoxxl2]

you can do the same with my billing company ... but before the transactions is finished, you will be transfered to mastercard directly to enter a code only mastercard knows

[Iron Fist]

Originally Posted by timoxxl2

you can contact me on icq if you like

Check that ego my friend... as a CCBILL affiliate, I can guarantee you that if you have an affiliate program under CCBILL you'll get access to a wealth of e-mails and affiliates that no other program can match. I think you should be emailing Mark right now and stop posting here. When it's resolved, let us know by all means