Thanks! Works for me...

Only little minds use false analogies and equivalencies. There are not 1.5 million people dying of TB in the US (thank God) and I am certain that where TB is a problem those fighting it wish people would wear masks. Besides, we do not know how many covid-19 will kill in a year because we are only months into this pandemic.

There are treatments for TB etc. Not so much for covid-19 and apparently the RT (Rate of Transmission) is way higher with coronavirus. Just because people get cancer, other illnesses, other diseases does NOT mean we should all be fucking idiots and do nothing to prevent that which we can prevent. Again, for others even more so than for ourselves.

But why try to educate someone who is so selfish, prickish and anti-social? I'm just glad you identified yourself as part of the problem and not the solution.

No mask, no delivery. You're a man that goes to the wall for his ideas and that is commendable (and I don't think it will hurt anyone).

I'm flatered! Just PM a picture of one of your pies and I will feast on it with my eyes.

I'm nobody's advocate but I think we should avoid binary thinking when it comes to this sort-of grey area which is so-far this virus. I still see people lowering their face masks to smoke, to liberally prickle their many facial orifices, eat, drink and so on . . . so the only key to avoid contagion seems to be distance (which I relish) and cleanliness.

Hmm...

United States - 2 220 961 cases
EU - 2 268 266 cases

The stats are copied from here: https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/geogra...019-ncov-cases

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/def...?itok=Sqx35qCg

When you see "America" on the graph above, it lineally means America - two big continents. So how the EU was better prepared than the USA?

Yes it requires masks but also social distancing, washing your hands, being careful around others, etc.

I'm just saying if a mask helps even a little I'm down for that.

I too believe this whole thing is nonsense....:2 cents:

where did I say that?

I said that the US WOULD have had some extra weeks to prepare

So sorry to disappoint you.

Great video!

A lot of the stuff out there doesn't add up for me. I took the anti-body test 2 weeks ago and I was positive. The only time I had "flu-like" symptoms was in early February - and it was pretty bad for a couple of days. Just after that my wife had a dry-cough for three weeks.

Our thinking is maybe we got it here:

Was Sundance a "First Petri Dish" of Coronavirus in the States?

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/fe...states-1293378

But who knows???

Such a weird situation with protests/riots in NYC and no mention of social distancing and masks/gloves (gloves!!! Not that Covid-19 is transferable from surfaces!!!) and everyone getting a pass. And BTW NO SPIKE WHATSOEVER BECAUSE OF THE PROTESTS!!!

Masks are obligatory in the NYC Subway - so I put on a mask. But outside??? No way, Jose! Stay 6ft away from me if you have any doubts, but no mask for me outside.

I've done two things to do "my part" in this thing. I've donated plasma, which is in very high demand once you have Anti-body certification, and I signed up for Contact Tracing thru Citizen.

Some people get on their soapbox and launch virtue-signaling nuclear strikes at those who would dare to have a different opinion - and that's what works for them.

In the meantime, there's a lot of us doing our thing, moving forward. Shit's about to get real in NYC once the $600 a week PUA runs out July 31. That's when we'll move really start feeling the economic devastation caused by the "measured governmental response".

You guys do realize there's an economic aspect to this equation, right?

Good luck to all and see you on the other side...

1 percent don't die from this. More like 6/10th of a percent.

Also...the deaths themselves...75% of ALL deaths from Covid19 are people with underlying conditions.

73.6% of all deaths from Covid19 are people who are 65 years of age and older (mostly older)

Only 0.7% of all Covid19 deaths are from people who doctors are certain have no underlying conditions.

All data and all science says that people under 65 years old without health problems are far less affected by this than the flu.
That's just science.

I know the media isn't reporting this. But it's fact.

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...-demographics/

In other words...stay away from older people (they should stay isolated). Nursing homes should be a top priority. And if you have a health condition it is also up to you to stay isolated.

The rest of us??? Nope. We're gonna be fine. Just stay away from old and unhealthy people if THEY are too stupid to stay isolated.

Famous last words.

It's more about the response to this pandemic. We wouldn't have had this many deaths with a proper timely response.

There will be other pandemics, count on it. The percentage of deaths is only meaningful to the dead and the people those deaths affect. There is no simplistic explanation of how this virus reacts with people. There are many instances of young healthy middle aged men and women that have died from the virus. Imagine their surprise to wake up dead.
Our own government has tried its best to muzzle science and obstruct testing. There are no excuses for the way this has been managed. This country is just about even with smart and stupid people. Pick a side and keep your fingers crossed. If it's your turn, you will die alone.

Leave it to Americans to turn wearing a mask into a political thing. Don't worry the CDC is 't coming to take your freedom and Bill Gates isn't trying to microchip everyone for the illuminati. You wear a mask to protect others who are at risk such as the elderly and people without healthy immune systems. I'm young (relatively) and at very low risk of complications from covid, and I think I already had it when I was in Asia months back.. but I still wear a mask anywhere I go. We have barely any cases here now because people took it seriously and we were successful in flattening the curve.. we have like 10 new cases a day and basically all of the new cases are in long term care facilities and not community spread. I wore a mask anytime I went anywhere, including gloves and hand sanitizer.. not because I'm scared of corona but because I don't want to be the guy who was too cool to wear a mask, and gave it to some 80 year old who was grocery shopping because he didnt have kids or help to do the shopping for them.

People not wearing a mask in places with outbreaks are complete trash. Listen to the health officials who have dedicated their lives to learning about infectious diseases, and not some loser sitting in his moms basement who somehow discovered a global conspiracy in between the sessions of spilling mountain dew on himself and masturbating with hot cheeto crumbs all over his fat hands.

Idiots

BTW, don't forget to also protect your dog ... :stoned

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4FbmmfXV26o/maxresdefault.jpg

It is not a developed world issue that is why we don’t worry about it.

I agree with this. These are the numbers I have also seen. It is low risk to healthy and young people.

Side note. I did lose all sense of taste and I am 54 so that is a bit of a bummer.

We can reopen the country whenever we want. Slowing the spread isn't a requirement to doing that.

Spread, infection rate, cases and most data is pretty meaningless. If 99.99 % of those infected were asymptomatic then who cares about how many cases there are. It's hospitalizations and deaths that are most relevant since no country except Iceland has been able to consistently test properly.

You didn't really address what I wrote.

Of course it has become political, on both sides. Once that happens, calm, reasonable discourse doesn't happen anymore and it becomes a frenzy of my side against yours and nothing really happens at that point. Look at this thread for example.

a big demonstration - Virus Madness, in The Hague in Holland yesterday was forbidden. So a lot of people showed up anyway. Only some Hooligans started fighting in the end. The rest of the day was a summer of love. They expected 50.000 people when it wouldn't be forbidden, famous DJ's would have shown up. All against new 1,5 meter society laws that could be in place, till there is a vaccin... Not much Corona in Holland, 3 weeks ago there where 14.000 ant racism protestors in Amsterdam, they didn't forbid that so they divide people. Demonstrating for something happened in USA is good, protest against Dutch government forbidden.




Düsseldorf Germany demonstration 1 week ago

A symptomatic is a very small group according to the WHO.

Have you looked at hospitalization rates? That's the one that scares me more. Death rates don't give you a sense of how bad you can feel. I have two acquaintances who said they felt like dying during their infection and were close to going to the hospital. Young, healthy guys.

Here in Canada, my age group has a 0.9% death rate due to COVID, but a 15% rate of hospitalization. Among my culture, we don't look at the numbers to say, "you only have a 0.9% chance of dying", but we say, "you have a 15% chance of being close to death".

I don't want a 15% chance of being on a ventilator, or like my friend who survived, but said he felt like he was drowning with every breath for 2 weeks.

I hate wearing mask, I don't care if I would be kicked out of this life by whoever. Just wearing it so that my co-existors wouldn't get sick just because of my recklessness.

Amigo is a fantastic artist!:thumbsup Again, I fully agree with you in the end.Let this bitch play out just like every other threat. We can not allow the economy to fall because of potential risks?No one benefits.

Couldn't agree more. Just like Tremelose mentioned in their song...people follow cheap things like sheep.

ahhh jeeez, please don't tell me you also crossed over to the conspiracy lunatics - you used to be such a nice guy

Everyone trying to figure out the numbers like they are betting on roulette in Las Vegas. The chances are so small! Blah blah blah.

People thinking this way only do so to alleviate their fears and make themselves feel better and special. But the coronavirus does not 'target' certain people, it targets EVERYONE. But continue to look at the data and try to figure out your odds of getting it and then roll the dice. Fuck anyone else but yourself, right?

THIS is why this world is so fucked up.

Sorry, let me address this:

Basically your argument is that there are lots of things that can kill us so why bother taking extra precautions for Covid-19, is that about right?

Well those things that can kill us are KNOWN causes of death and we, as clear-thinking free humans, can decide how to deal with those possibilities. But with coronavirus? We simply DO NOT KNOW the extent of this disease, its' long-term affects and whether or not you get immunity from it once you have it. This is so new the data is still flowing in.

So what to do? Look at all the other ways you could get sick and die and treat Covid-19 as the same? That would be a huge mistake (one many people are currently making). This virus spreads faster than other diseases, there is no cure or vaccine, we do not know the long-term affects of the disease, there is a second wave coming....

Just wear a fucking mask for a few months people PLEASE. It will not be forever.

I'm sorry, but it's you who "crossed over" to mindless sheep. Almost.

But hey, don't worry. It's difficult to beat posters like 2MuchMark in this category.

every time I cross street in the country where I am now, I have like similar chance (or bigger) of dying as I would have after contracting cov2 or flu virus.
Yet, I do it every day, multiple times.
wonder why, maybe its better to stay home for life and suck on government's titty and be a pussy/ sheep.

Here I go again !! For fuck sake argue with this :

You simply cannot argue with math :2 cents:

Many people who wear mouth masks experience a negative effect on health

In a four-part series, immunologist Dr Carla Peeters, who worked at RIVM (dutch government organisation that advice government about corona measures) for several years, provides all the ins and outs about the face mask required by the government in certain situations. This week part II: the use of mouth masks is not nearly as harmless as thought and can even have negative effects on health.

This week, Rover (traveler's association) and Elke (in) (the umbrella organization for people with a physical disability, intellectual disability or chronic illness) asked the responsible ministries to offer people who cannot wear a mask for medical reasons to an alternative to choose. Rover receives signals that many travelers experience wearing a mouth mask as oppressive and bad. Professionals in contact professions and customers also experience discomfort. Not so strange, it turns out when we investigate this further.

Wearing a mouth mask; a new microclimate

Being able to breathe clean air freely is important for maintaining good health. That is why it is important to analyze the effects of the microclimate that is created inside and on the mask. By wearing mouth masks, the temperature increases and the humidity changes. The psychological effect of wearing a mouth mask alone can cause a change in the way of breathing. Depending on the type of mask / mouth mask, the wearer experiences more resistance in breathing and problems may arise to inhale sufficient O2. When a shortage of O2 is experienced, the activity of the sympathetic nervous system (flight-fight reaction) increases. The heartbeat gets faster; a risk of feeling unwell or tired and even passing out. Headaches, skin reactions and itching from wearing masks have also been described. Experienced discomfort leads to more stress, resulting in a vicious circle. When a mask is worn for a long period of time, the oxygen level in the blood may decrease and the CO2 level may increase. This can increase inflammation and weaken immunity to external factors. More energy is needed to keep the existing inflammations under control. Also, the concentration of bacteria and viruses in the mask and nasal and pharynx can increase by exhaling and breathing in the same air again.

Toxic substances from dyes or bleaches and / or dust particles from the substances used for the mouth caps can increase in the microclimate and thus end up in the lungs.

Uncontrolled production of mouth masks increases negative influences

The production of hip masks has become a rapidly growing market for the fashion industry. The advertising industry has received a new file. To date, there are no strict quality requirements for the mouth masks, which means that everything is possible. Even for medical masks that do have quality requirements, the high demand has created a true Wild West market. Whether it be design mouth masks or homemade mouth masks made from unapproved fabrics, it demands alertness for possible adverse health consequences. Toxic substances from dyes or bleaches and / or dust particles from the substances used for the mouth caps can increase in the microclimate and thus end up in the lungs. Any damage to lung epithelial cells, the first barrier to prevent infection, can make the body more susceptible to bacterial and viral infections.

Possible connection air pollution and course COVID-19

Scientific studies have shown the possible adverse effects of air pollution on the immune system. At the same time, impurities may increase the expression of the number of angiotensin converting enzyme (ACE) receptors. This means that more receptors are available for the virus to bind to, allowing for a more severe course of COVID-19. A recent Harvard University study is the first to show a statistically significant association between the severity of COVID-19 course and the degree of air pollution.


The spread of the virus may increase due to the unsafe use of mouth masks.

Use face masks to increase the spread of the virus

Research published in the British Medical Journal in 2015, in which 3M participated, showed a higher concentration of the virus in people who used mouth masks compared to people who did not wear a mask / medical mask. Most people do not have enough knowledge to use the mask properly, such as renewing frequently, washing hands frequently, removing and disposing of safely. The spread of the virus may increase due to the unsafe use of mouth masks. Scientific research into the effect of the use of surgical masks showed a higher concentration of viruses and bacteria on the outside of the mask.

https://www.hpdetijd.nl/2020-06-19/v...de-gezondheid/

The question of whether mouth masks is the solution to reduce the spread of the virus is a topic of concern for many. Scientific support, as Prime Minister Mark Rutte put it, is wafer-thin. Until June 1, wearing mouth masks was not yet mandatory. Since the end of April and also after the relaxation of the intelligent lockdown, we have seen a steady decline in the number of infections.

On 4 June, professor Jaap van Dissel of RIVM presented the figures for COVID-19 in the Netherlands; 98 percent of people who get the coronavirus have few complaints. One and a half percent must be admitted to hospital and 0.4 percent end up in intensive care. Currently, the number of people in intensive care is less than 100 and there are approximately 2000 infections. Since the end of April, the number of people who visit the GP with flu symptoms has been lower than the limit in the event of an epidemic. The virus is manageable and will die out. Of the 57,630 corona tests performed by the GGD last week, the virus was detected in only 2.1% of people with complaints. The results are increasingly negative.

98 percent of people who get the coronavirus have few complaints.

In total, 48,087 persons tested positive for COVID-19 in a population of 17.4 million. The number of people who have had an infection may be higher because in the early days not everyone with symptoms could be tested for the presence of the virus. 6,042 people have since died of the virus. 50% are over 83 years of age and 70% have underlying suffering. Both in Belgium and in the Netherlands it appears that about 80% of people with COVID-19 in intensive care are seriously overweight. Compared to 2015, fewer people died during the annual flu season this year. Also, no more people have died worldwide than in previous years during the flu season. This includes the number of COVID-19 deaths.

Policy changes of mouth masks

For the time being, RIVM advises that wearing mouth masks has no effect on the spread of COVID-19 and that there is insufficient scientific evidence. An important argument is the permeability of the mouth caps. A virus particle is about 80 - 150 nanometers in diameter. This is too small to be blocked by the dust (s) of the mask. Until recently, WHO also believed that it is not necessary for healthy people to wear a mask. On 5 June, the WHO issued an adapted opinion for countries with virus spread. In the new message, the WHO recommends that healthy people should also use masks or medical masks in places where keeping a distance of 1.5 meters is difficult, such as in public transport, shops and in a busy environment.

Effectiveness not demonstrated

Based on some recent studies of wearing face masks in families with a person with COVID-19, WHO indirectly concludes that wearing a mouth mask / mask may help protect against infection.

The conclusion in the WHO document 'Advice on the use of masks in the context of COVID-19 interim guidance 5 June 2020', which was compiled on the basis of scientific literature and interviews with experts, reads: “At present, scientific do not investigate direct evidence that wearing mouth masks is effective in reducing the spread of viruses that cause upper respiratory tract infections, including for the SARS-COV-2 virus. ”

At present, there is no direct evidence from scientific research that wearing mouth masks is effective in reducing the spread of the coronavirus

WHO
A 2012 review in the journal Respiratory Virus, which examined seventeen studies looking at the effect of mouth and medical mask wearing on the spread of influenza virus, concludes that there is no protective effect. Data from such studies for SARS-COV-2 are unknown.

https://www.hpdetijd.nl/2020-06-12/a...jde-mondkapje/

no worries about that

but as later in this thread pointed out: the use of masks is not to protect you from infection in case you get exposed to someone sick coughing right in your face

but that "meme" implies that masks are supposed to protect you - this is incorrect

I worked as a healthcare worker ages ago, i worked in the medical industry, half of my friends are doctors, i even gave lectures on hygiene in dental practices.

I am far from knowing everything but there is actually some stuff I know

and about the other shit posted:

Doctors and nurses fucking wear masks every fucking day througout their whole career - I rest in my case.

Everyone who thinks the earth is flat please raise your hand.

The ONLY fact ass hats who think wearing a mask is a waste, some government conspiracy, etc should focus on is this:

Front line workers who directly interact with Covid-19 patients on a daily basis (nurses, doctors, etc) have a LOWER rate of infection than the average population. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE you ask??

Because wearing masks WORKS.

for how long per day ? :winkwink::winkwink:
do they also cycle and jog while wearing masks, like some governments would like them to do?

Yes, I wear a face mask when I go out.

I also spray disinfectant on the soles of my shoes when I come home.

Common sense :thumbsup