I Thought Republicans Were For Lowering Taxes?

[marketsmart]

Oh I see, the Republicans don't mind raising taxes as long as its not rasing the taxes of the wealthy...

LANSING, Mich. ? Republican Governor Rick Snyder faces recall threats and angry protests over his attempt to do what no Michigan governor has tried in more than 40 years: tax the pension and other retirement income of millions of retirees.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar..._tax_pensions/




.

[GatorB]

Someone has to pay for the tax breaks to millionaires. After all if you don't cut taxes on the rich they won't create jobs. Oh wait they have thier tax breaks and still aren't creating jobs. I know if I win the $300 mil Megaball this week-end the first thing I'm thinking about doing to is creating jobs.

[Sagi]

Originally Posted by marketsmart

Oh I see, the Republicans don't mind raising taxes as long as its not rasing the taxes of the wealthy...

Why can't retires be wealthy?

[Tom_PM]

"Snyder campaigned on a promise to replace the business tax with a 6 percent corporate income tax, a move that would eliminate $1.7 billion in revenue. But he didn’t reveal until last month that he wanted to pay for it by requiring more money from individual taxpayers."


Typical lying scumbag move.

[gideongallery]

Originally Posted by marketsmart

Oh I see, the Republicans don't mind raising taxes as long as its not rasing the taxes of the wealthy...

LANSING, Mich. ? Republican Governor Rick Snyder faces recall threats and angry protests over his attempt to do what no Michigan governor has tried in more than 40 years: tax the pension and other retirement income of millions of retirees.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar..._tax_pensions/




.

i never understood why pension /retirement income should be tax free.

when you work for it should be taxed, but once you stop working for it should be free

it not like government services suddenly become free for retired people

and as people start living longer and longer, that negative drain is only going to get worse

why shouldn't retiree pay their share of the government services bill.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by GatorB

I know if I win the $300 mil Megaball this week-end the first thing I'm thinking about doing to is creating jobs.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Just another big government republican. Nothing new here.

[nation-x]

Your forgot to mention that those tax increases also include elimination of the majority of tax credits given to working families such as the Earned Income Credit and Home Heating Tax Credit... not to mention that the bill starts by taking that money and giving it to corporations.

$1.8B in tax breaks for corporations

$1B in new taxes on pensions
$400M from removing tax credits and cutting revenue sharing with local municipalities by 4%
$400M in reduced spending on public education

The funny thing about these idiot Republican governors... especially John Kasich and Rick Snyder is that they are proposing these cuts but completely ignoring the largest single item drain on their state economies.

In Michigan, more than half of all state employees work for the Dept. of Corrections and the Dept of Corrections cost the state more than $1.8B yearly (and growing). The prison population has more than tripled over the last 2 decades and a huge number of those prisoners are non-violent offenders and first time offenders.

Additionally, Ohio has one of the biggest prison populations in the country.

So... these idiots have decided that the best way to save money is to continue the status quo for corrections but cut funding for low income assistance.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by gideongallery

i never understood why pension /retirement income should be tax free.

when you work for it should be taxed, but once you stop working for it should be free

it not like government services suddenly become free for retired people

and as people start living longer and longer, that negative drain is only going to get worse

why shouldn't retiree pay their share of the government services bill.

Because people that invest in Roth IRA get their money TAX FREE. Most people getting SS check pay ZERO taxes on it. if you insist on retirement income being tax then ALL retirement income should be taxed. And good luck getting re-elected if you did that.

[12clicks]

ahahaha, right rabble! why should anyone pay taxes. only the rich should pay!
hahahaha

"""Michigan currently charges no income tax on public pensions and exempts up to $45,120 worth of income from private pensions, 401(k)s, and IRAs for individual retirees, with limits of twice that for retired couples."""

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar..._tax_pensions/

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by gideongallery

i never understood why pension /retirement income should be tax free.

when you work for it should be taxed, but once you stop working for it should be free

it not like government services suddenly become free for retired people

and as people start living longer and longer, that negative drain is only going to get worse

why shouldn't retiree pay their share of the government services bill.

Because it's already been taxed.... and in many cases, it was OUR tax dollars, that were already taxed by us, then taxed by them.... a 3rd time is a bit much.

Every State Pension/Retirement fund was perfectly fine until they forced moved the Investments into the Markets, which crashed in 08, leaving States broke - and now today they are bitching about a fake problem (ie pensions) rather than actually fixing the problem... (wallstreet)

[IllTestYourGirls]

Keep the masses fighting with each other on who should be paying the most taxes. The plan is working perfectly. The only fair tax is and will always be a zero % income tax.

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Because it's already been taxed.... and in many cases, it was OUR tax dollars, that were already taxed by us, then taxed by them.... a 3rd time is a bit much.

Every State Pension/Retirement fund was perfectly fine until they forced moved the Investments into the Markets, which crashed in 08, leaving States broke - and now today they are bitching about a fake problem (ie pensions) rather than actually fixing the problem... (wallstreet)

QFT

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

ahahaha, right rabble! why should anyone pay taxes. only the rich should pay!
hahahaha

"""Michigan currently charges no income tax on public pensions and exempts up to $45,120 worth of income from private pensions, 401(k)s, and IRAs for individual retirees, with limits of twice that for retired couples."""

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar..._tax_pensions/

Who said only the rich should pay? I never saw that anywhere in this thread or anytime, ever.


So the "State" doesn't tax them, but the Fed does. And after the local citizens are taxed to pay for them, and after they are taxed to get paid (even if it's not income at the State).... and yet you think the Gov/State should take more?

And you're Republican?

You'll sing that song right up until you use the services, which you will use no mater how wealthy you are.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Who said only the rich should pay? I never saw that anywhere in this thread or anytime, ever.


So the "State" doesn't tax them, but the Fed does. And after the local citizens are taxed to pay for them, and after they are taxed to get paid (even if it's not income at the State).... and yet you think the Gov/State should take more?

And you're Republican?

You'll sing that song right up until you use the services, which you will use no mater how wealthy you are.

odd then that that argument doesn't work for you with the death tax.

and there's a difference between paying nothing for services and paying 10 times the average so others can pay nothing.

but then, you like paying northing, don't you?

[Robbie]

Isn't dropping state taxes on industries exactly what should be done to stimulate job growth?

I know that when I lived in South Carolina...the state gave BMW a huge tax incentive to build that plant there. And it created jobs and kicked up the economy in the upstate where I lived enormously.

Seems to me that if you are taxing the hell out of an industry that you are kinda pushing them somewhere else aren't you?

I know I moved to Nevada simply because I got tired of paying 20 grand every year in state income tax in South Carolina.
And if I were a big company I would definitely look for the most cost effective way to do business in the U.S. (and no, I'm not talking about going to Mexico for cheap labor). So if I were an industry that could save millions of dollars by moving to another state...that's what I'd do.

In my opinion a state will cripple itself in the marketplace if it doesn't lower taxes on businesses. You need business to want to come to your state and bring jobs and prosperity.

As far as the State budgets go...they need to stop spending so much money. Just like the feds.

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

odd then that that argument doesn't work for you with the death tax.

and there's a difference between paying nothing for services and paying 10 times the average so others can pay nothing.

but then, you like paying northing, don't you?

You love to accuse people of "paying nothing"... My tax bill was 5 figures for 2010... what was yours?

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Isn't dropping state taxes on industries exactly what should be done to stimulate job growth?

I know that when I lived in South Carolina...the state gave BMW a huge tax incentive to build that plant there. And it created jobs and kicked up the economy in the upstate where I lived enormously.

Seems to me that if you are taxing the hell out of an industry that you are kinda pushing them somewhere else aren't you?

I know I moved to Nevada simply because I got tired of paying 20 grand every year in state income tax in South Carolina.
And if I were a big company I would definitely look for the most cost effective way to do business in the U.S. (and no, I'm not talking about going to Mexico for cheap labor). So if I were an industry that could save millions of dollars by moving to another state...that's what I'd do.

In my opinion a state will cripple itself in the marketplace if it doesn't lower taxes on businesses. You need business to want to come to your state and bring jobs and prosperity.

As far as the State budgets go...they need to stop spending so much money. Just like the feds.

Robbie, the problem is that most of these tax incentives end up COSTING the state over the long term... it may stimulate some job growth but at what cost? I recently read an article (I can't find it right now) that said that it ended up costing NC something like $120k above revenue for each job to bring Dell here.

[Tom_PM]

Rich people dont pay "10 times the average" because the figure is on percentage, not on volume. They pay less now than when we were children.

Right wingers usually mistakenly think they make more under Republican administrations but it's false. The real deal is that the poor get to keep less under Republican administrations because they redistribute the money to the already rich. This is apparent even to the rabble these days.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

odd then that that argument doesn't work for you with the death tax.

and there's a difference between paying nothing for services and paying 10 times the average so others can pay nothing.

but then, you like paying northing, don't you?

Not everyone is subject to death tax, oops theory out the door.

We're talking about people that clearly pay taxes. Teachers etc, can't really be paid otherwise... Nobody here is talking about the super poor, which are the ONLY people not paying State taxes.

Correct, I pay noRthing...

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Isn't dropping state taxes on industries exactly what should be done to stimulate job growth?

I know that when I lived in South Carolina...the state gave BMW a huge tax incentive to build that plant there. And it created jobs and kicked up the economy in the upstate where I lived enormously.

Seems to me that if you are taxing the hell out of an industry that you are kinda pushing them somewhere else aren't you?

I know I moved to Nevada simply because I got tired of paying 20 grand every year in state income tax in South Carolina.
And if I were a big company I would definitely look for the most cost effective way to do business in the U.S. (and no, I'm not talking about going to Mexico for cheap labor). So if I were an industry that could save millions of dollars by moving to another state...that's what I'd do.

In my opinion a state will cripple itself in the marketplace if it doesn't lower taxes on businesses. You need business to want to come to your state and bring jobs and prosperity.

As far as the State budgets go...they need to stop spending so much money. Just like the feds.

Dropping State or even Income taxes, has NEVER sparked job growth... EVER! Just because you make an extra 2% this year, are you going to rush out and hire people? Of course not... and nobody else would either.

Job growth happens for two reasons, companies are FORCED to do it OR they have a so many buyers, they have to hire people.

Forced happens on Capitol Gains Taxes... Which is where Job growth happens. This is investment money brought in to produce industry, jobs, etc and is normally the highest actual tax a company can have. But when they cut it, sooooooooo much money comes in, that they actually end up collecting more.

Honestly... I have no idea why this hasn't been slashed across the nation.

The few times they've cut this tax, shortly afterward everything turned around.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by nation-x

You love to accuse people of "paying nothing"... My tax bill was 5 figures for 2010... what was yours?

wow, 5 who figures?

I'm sorry, I didn't know I was talking to such a big shot.
you're excused.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Not everyone is subject to death tax, oops theory out the door.

Not everyone is subject to the proposed tax in question, oops theory over your head again.

[12clicks]

now that I'm done laughing.....

Originally Posted by nation-x

You love to accuse people of "paying nothing"...

the pensioners in question are paying nothing and are bitching because that may not continue.
if you're not smart enough to understand the article, sit on the sidelines and learn from the people who do.

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

now that I'm done laughing.....

the pensioners in question are paying nothing and are bitching because that may not continue.
if you're not smart enough to understand the article, sit on the sidelines and learn from the people who do.

Maybe one of these days you will actually contribute to an intelligent conversation. It's not possible to convince anyone you are right when you never present anything other than demagoguery and immaturity.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

Rich people dont pay "10 times the average" because the figure is on percentage, not on volume. They pay less now than when we were children.

Right wingers usually mistakenly think they make more under Republican administrations but it's false. The real deal is that the poor get to keep less under Republican administrations because they redistribute the money to the already rich. This is apparent even to the rabble these days.

you're right!
lets take you. most likely you make about $35k a year. don't know if thats average or not but tax on that is $4,938.00 if you're single.
now, lets take an evil rich guy making $1m a year.
he pays $327,643.00

the rich pay 66 times what you pay for the exact same services.
in the small mind of the rabble, thats fair but only because he knows he'll never be successful enough to have that much money taken from him

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by nation-x

Maybe one of these days you will actually contribute to an intelligent conversation. It's not possible to convince anyone you are right when you never present anything other than demagoguery and immaturity.

I'm sorry. which part of your "I pay 5 figures" was considered intelligent again?

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

you're right!
lets take you. most likely you make about $35k a year. don't know if thats average or not but tax on that is $4,938.00 if you're single.
now, lets take an evil rich guy making $1m a year.
he pays $327,643.00

the rich pay 66 times what you pay for the exact same services.
in the small mind of the rabble, thats fair but only because he knows he'll never be successful enough to have that much money taken from him

There isn't a millionaire in the country paying 32% of his income in taxes unless he is an idiot. Most pay an average of 12.5% after deductions.

[OY]

http://mobile.latimes.com/wap/news/t...le=Top+Stories

Republican or Democrat - both suck. That said, US is screwed right now.

R + D = need to work together to fix the US issues. End of story or end of super power US.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

Not everyone is subject to the proposed tax in question, oops theory over your head again.

What? That's exactly what we're talking about here... wow!

Seriously are not able to follow a conversion or is your spew spitting stupidity over riding your mental abilities while on GFY?

[marketsmart]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

now, lets take an evil rich guy making $1m a year.
he pays $327,643.00

i know for a fact you dont make anywhere near that so stop trying to pretend like you are some big player.. all of your betters know the real deal about you...





.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by nation-x

There isn't a millionaire in the country paying 32% of his income in taxes unless he is an idiot. Most pay an average of 12.5% after deductions.

dear idiot, taxable income is what you're taxed on. just like you're not taxed on your whole $35k.

go to the chart, look at taxable income. find $35k
Then go down to $1m look at both taxes.

I know talking $1mil taxable income to you is like saying "a million bajillion" to a 5yr old but it doesn't made what I said any less true becauser you don't understand it.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by marketsmart

i know for a fact you dont make anywhere near that so stop trying to pretend like you are some big player.. all of your betters know the real deal about you...

don't be bitter at your betters. be bitter at your parents. its their fault, not mine

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

What? That's exactly what we're talking about here... wow!

sorry, I simply don't have the ability to dumb it down further.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by nation-x

There isn't a millionaire in the country paying 32% of his income in taxes unless he is an idiot. Most pay an average of 12.5% after deductions.

We know they don't, but he has no clue.... just like we know most truly wealthy funnel the money through corps.

Going wayyyyy back 1986: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...ery-little-tax

"The most blatant recent example of this was the tax act of 1986. Between 1986 and 1987 the effective tax rate on millionaires fell from 40 percent to 29 percent, and as a result they paid $3.6 billion less in tax. Meanwhile people making from $50,000 to $75,000, a reasonably prosperous but hardly rich crowd, paid $7.6 billion more. Some reform."

"Let me explain. Following the 1986 tax reform, the average income tax paid by somebody in the $50,000-$75,000 bracket indeed went down, and I mean way down--$1,100. The total tax take for that bracket went up $7.6 billion because there were many more taxpayers in that range in 1987."

"By eliminating many popular tax deductions. This forced millions of Americans into higher brackets, so they paid more tax. "

In one year, plugging a loop hole the wealthy used in 1987 they collected $300b more in taxes. Just showing that they do use them, greatly.


Even though the rich, because of money volume, pay pay more overall, the percentage based on actual wealth, is extremely higher the lower your income is. Even more so, when they get a cut and nobody else does...

Right now, the rich truly pay the lowest amount of taxes than they ever have in history, from personal to business.... and our Country is falling apart around us while they scream to tax the lower income people more, which doesn't help shit.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

sorry, I simply don't have the ability to dumb it down further.

You couldn't explain it because you don't understand what's going on.

And btw, the teachers ARE taxed.... they're except from STATE income tax, because the money was ALREADY TAXED. <---- HELLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[12clicks]

wow.

well guys, its happy hour here on the east coast. I'm off.
keep thinking you're right. look where its gotten you so far.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

don't be bitter at your betters. be bitter at your parents. its their fault, not mine

Out of those with less than 2.5 million in wealth, only 5% were given the wealth/born into it - the rest, were middle class people that dug up from the bottom, using the same systems as others and paid for by others too, which is what allows them to create the wealth they have today - just to turn around and bitch at the same system that allowed them to grow, and now not want to contribute.

That's you isn't it? You think you did everything yourself, like you could have done what you did in some 3rd world Country starting from the bottom.... reality is, without the wealth, contribution, taxes paid in by everyone, the system paid for by others for you to use... none of us would have anything that we have today, no mater how big or small they are.

I truly don't understand how you can't see that....

[marketsmart]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

don't be bitter at your betters. be bitter at your parents. its their fault, not mine

ronald, i want to envy you, but there is nothing to envy...

and for the record, i have never been bitter about others success, it's just that i dont consider you successful and i know a lot more about you than you think..





.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

wow.

well guys, its happy hour here on the east coast. I'm off.
keep thinking you're right. look where its gotten you so far.

Did it rain today or did you guys finish the job early?

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Dropping State or even Income taxes, has NEVER sparked job growth... EVER! Just because you make an extra 2% this year, are you going to rush out and hire people? Of course not... and nobody else would either.

My point was that by offering the best tax incentive to BMW (compared to the other states trying to get them) they were able to bring them in and build a major production plant. And since I lived 20 minutes from it I can attest to the amount of folks who got very high paying jobs...and just in the nick of time because the upstate of S.C. was a big mill area for textiles. And those companies picked up and left the country leaving the area in a bad way.

Anyway, that was what I was saying. Tax incentives brought in a big company.
Not having tax incentives was one of the reasons I left S.C.
I deliberately decided to move back to a state that had no state income tax (I used to live in Florida).

So in at least those two instances...state tax was directly involved in jobs and business and revenue for the state. They gained a lot from BMW.

They lost my 20 grand, plus the full time employee I had there (I let him go when I left) making a salary and paying taxes.

I'm honestly considering my next move to be to Panama or some other country just to get away from our federal govt. and their need to tax, tax, tax and at the same time spend 800 million dollars to attack Libya.

[marketsmart]

Originally Posted by Robbie

M
I'm honestly considering my next move to be to Panama or some other country just to get away from our federal govt. and their need to tax, tax, tax and at the same time spend 800 million dollars to attack Libya.

the day they open up cuba, i am gone...

i have lived in central and south america and the only thing i missed was some of the food items i couldnt get...





.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by marketsmart

the day they open up cuba, i am gone...

i have lived in central and south america and the only thing i missed was some of the food items i couldnt get...

From everything I read about Cuba in the 40's and 50's it was roaring. Once they do re-open it and get their casinos set up and drinking age of 18 etc. It's gonna be BIG.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Robbie

My point was that by offering the best tax incentive to BMW (compared to the other states trying to get them) they were able to bring them in and build a major production plant. And since I lived 20 minutes from it I can attest to the amount of folks who got very high paying jobs...and just in the nick of time because the upstate of S.C. was a big mill area for textiles. And those companies picked up and left the country leaving the area in a bad way.

Anyway, that was what I was saying. Tax incentives brought in a big company.
Not having tax incentives was one of the reasons I left S.C.
I deliberately decided to move back to a state that had no state income tax (I used to live in Florida).

So in at least those two instances...state tax was directly involved in jobs and business and revenue for the state. They gained a lot from BMW.

They lost my 20 grand, plus the full time employee I had there (I let him go when I left) making a salary and paying taxes.

I'm honestly considering my next move to be to Panama or some other country just to get away from our federal govt. and their need to tax, tax, tax and at the same time spend 800 million dollars to attack Libya.

Do you happen to remember roughly what year that was? I ask because normally, super major corps wont move in unless they get some super, crazy, tax cut above anything we normal business people could ever get. Such as, capital gains investment in the billions gets the cut, but not for us little folk.

I will say though, I liked living in Nevada income/business wise, over Arizona. Even though AZ doesn't kill me that bad, it still sucks writing those checks. To be fair though, 'normally' those zero tax states have something else that pays the bill, for sure with Nevada.

And if my wife would let us leave, kids and all too.... we would be gone in a second to avoid most of the tax burden. I have a Canadian business partner aswell, it's almost stupid that we haven't done it yet.

[Poindexterity]

Originally Posted by GatorB

I know if I win the $300 mil Megaball this week-end the first thing I'm thinking about doing to is creating jobs.

i would.
and that is exactly what ANY true patriot would do.

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by marketsmart

Oh I see, the Republicans don't mind raising taxes as long as its not rasing the taxes of the wealthy... [/URL]




.

You only realized this now?

Originally Posted by 12clicks

the rich pay 66 times what you pay for the exact same services.

<=- This

However, not pointing a finger at anyone saying they make more or less than anyone...But this is what irritates me more than anything. Some pay nothing, some pay tons, and a lot are in the middle.

It always seems to me like the ones that pay the least, and also the ones that are least thankful to those that pay the most. All they seem to do is moan and bitch about silver spoons and a down economy. Without those people at the top, there would be no economy.

Sorry....I'll let this get back on topic now

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by sherm

Without those people at the top, there would be no economy

Sorry... that made me laugh... it is a perfect example of how backasswards people with your attitude think... guess what... without customers you wouldn't be where you are at... so that basic fact belies your assertion. Consumer spending drives the economy... not people producing products. If there were no large corporations at all or rich people for that matter there would still be an economy.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by sherm

<=- This

However, not pointing a finger at anyone saying they make more or less than anyone...But this is what irritates me more than anything. Some pay nothing, some pay tons, and a lot are in the middle.

It always seems to me like the ones that pay the least, and also the ones that are least thankful to those that pay the most. All they seem to do is moan and bitch about silver spoons and a down economy. Without those people at the top, there would be no economy.

Sorry....I'll let this get back on topic now

Just wondering what you think...

If we gave everyone making over $250k a year a 50% tax cut.... vs. giving everyone below $250k a year a 50% tax cut.

Which one of those do you think would make you the most money, personally and business wise?

More corp money, keep a bit more of what you get now, that would be nice.... or having 200 million Americans with the buying power back.


I can't remember where I read this, but it was explain in economic scale or ladders maybe. Been awhile. Simply put, all wealth is created by climbing the ladder, if you have no ladder to climb, it's almost impossible to get out of the pit. It takes the backs of other men to create that ladder, stacking one on top of another, so the one man can climb out... it would be rather douche if he didn't reach down and extend his arm and pull, everyone out, because without him, only one other person can get out then the ladder is too far from the top.

Perspective.... would you be pissed if someone left you in the pit, after you just pushed them out?

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Just wondering what you think...

If we gave everyone making over $250k a year a 50% tax cut.... vs. giving everyone below $250k a year a 50% tax cut.

Which one of those do you think would make you the most money, personally and business wise?

More corp money, keep a bit more of what you get now, that would be nice.... or having 200 million Americans with the buying power back.


I can't remember where I read this, but it was explain in economic scale or ladders maybe. Been awhile. Simply put, all wealth is created by climbing the ladder, if you have no ladder to climb, it's almost impossible to get out of the pit. It takes the backs of other men to create that ladder, stacking one on top of another, so the one man can climb out... it would be rather douche if he didn't reach down and extend his arm and pull, everyone out, because without him, only one other person can get out then the ladder is too far from the top.

Perspective.... would you be pissed if someone left you in the pit, after you just pushed them out?

In general, I don't really think that people really think like that... in reality, people want services but don't want the government to tax anyone to pay for them.