Shap

I had some great conversations today with webmasters that sparked this post. Hope it has some value for you.

I know times are tough. Paysites have it harder than ever. Affiliates are hanging on trying to figure out how to survive. I know the industry went from being the greatest biz to being really really hard. I get that.

Over the past few months I?ve talked with quite a few owners to see if there was a way to work together. My thinking in each and every case was the following "maybe with my experience i can help these guys make some more money.? I like the industry and I like the idea of getting back involved. I never once thought "hmmm I have to make $x amount to talk to these guys." I?ve always thought about business long term. Provide value long term and money will follow.

What?s interesting is the response from almost everybody has been the same ?Hey Shap, I?d love to work together want to buy x% of my company?? or ?Shap I have a great idea want to invest $50k in it.? Some of the offers are well established businesses so I understand their approach but at the same time some of them are guys who don?t even have a site up and just want my money. When I ask if they?d like help instead of money the answer is no they just need the money and it will bring great riches to all of us. I?ll be honest I?m somewhat surprised that there has not been one existing business to approach me to ask about doing something together that did not involved me giving them my money first.

When I started Twistys I launched with average non exclusive content. I basically got Jokersx, Matrix and Phoenix Content and loaded up the site. The content was weak. Our strength was our long term vision. Our goal was to do our best to provide our members with the best possible value for their dollar. As time went our content improved but we were never the ?BEST? content on the web. I?m the first to admit it. But the attention to detail and the level of caring we showed our members, models, photographers, and affiliates was the key to our success. We never worried about making money today. We focused on the long term. I always made sure everyone I did business with was taken care of before I was.

My advice to you all is to take some time to look at your business and think about where you are today and where you?d like to take it in the next 12, 24, 36 months. Write out your vision. Make decisions based on where you want to go. Plan ahead and plot your course. If you are doing the right things then when things change you?ll be better positioned to react to them (in fact in most cases you?ll already be a step ahead). So many people fail to plan ahead and as a result when something changes (visa regs, google, etc) they are completely screwed.

The industry is harder than ever but there is still a lot of money to be made in it but the key is to be focusing on the right things. If you look at the most successful companies around they are almost all thinking long term. They don?t take short cuts. They weren?t built overnight. They are where they are as a result of a lot of hard work and well calculated risks and moves. Think long term, provide long term value and you?ll have a much better business.

Smack dat

Nice to see you getting involved trying to make a difference. I respect that.

Shap

Thanks. I appreciate that

Barry-xlovecam

For some reason I am not surprised by this.

If you ever want to use your talents in the cam business let me know. I don't need your money. You can invest it in your own efforts.

Smack dat

But if you ever want to help out a real world business non porn I am all ears.

Spunky

Thanks for the advice

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Shap

Email me I'll see if I can give you a few ideas

WiredGuy

I've always been a fan of the mantra "Do what you love and the money will follow". Just thought I'd quote it
WG

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woj

Why are you surprised? either you believe in the site/idea/product/etc or you don't? if you do, why would investing some $$ be a problem? you want the other guy to take all the risk, do all the work, while you sit there with no skin in the game, just giving some tips here and there?

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altmman

Nevermind,
Good luck everyone

Struggle4Bucks

This is really funny... After your other thread where you were looking to buy a site/business or find a way back into the bizz... I thought let's send this guy an email... but then I thought... nah... let's wait till I have shot the content first and have the site up and running allready

That said... I'm not 100% sure to get back into this bizz and also not sure with or without a partner and also not sure which partner would be the best for me... depends on various things... but if you want to chat about it let me know...

Anyway... I was approached once by someone who contacted me via the contact form of the paysite years ago which I had up back then. He said he had great concepts for paysites and wanted to meet. We met and indeed he had some good ideas. I was willing to invest in some of those ideas (he didn't have the money for that himself) and we would partner up on that.... but I canceled the whole thing after he told me that part of the deal would be that he would also become the co-owner (content and revenue) of the paysite which I allready had

Some people are hilarious...

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JFK

as have I

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gnawledge

I like insight and not taking other's money. There are so much to be learned and trolls ruin a lot of free advice.

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slapass

Can I return the advice? You made the easy money. We have all seen how easy it is to ride a huge growth wave. So why not look for another wave? I understand that you have a feel for how this game works but is that enough of an advantage to deal with all of the downside?
Just my 2 cents.

dig420

Not true.

ilnjscb

I'd like to work with you on anything and I def don't need your money. I know what the next big thing is but I'm too stupid to take advantage of it myself. I have the dough and the connections, just not the brains.

I've asked about it here several times before but no viable responses yet.

Shap

Shit my apologies. You are absolutely right and there are a few others as well.

Lykos

I emailed you 2-3 years ago about idea to work on together, didn't involve your money. But not sure you ever received or read it as I didn't get reply. It's late for that now (requires tons of $$ to be in TOP) but never late to talk with an industry veteran and experienced person like you Shap. I am sure there are tons of jobs you can influence and help grown just by your expertise. Good advice you wrote today!

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Shap

I'll hit you up. It's crazy after all these years and being in the same city for some time that we've never met or even talked.

Shap

I opened myself up to face the music in this thread. Which is good. Sorry about that. I can't remember getting will look through my email.

I did meet with one of your partners here in London a few times

Shap

Email me I'll give you my thoughts on it

Shap

Fair point. I didn't mean for the post to come across that way. I meant I'm surprised the majority of people I've been in touch with have had the attitude of what can they get from the relationship right now today. Instead of let's see if there is a way to help each other make more.

My point to the post was a little lost (i tend to do that ). I think if the industry (and probably society) worried less about what they can get from a situation today and focus more on the long term then the outcome will usually be far better.

Shap

Shap

Agreed. At the same time there are real businesses and businessmen here. My post was a little outrageous to make a point.

Shap

Can't find your email address on here. Could you drop me an email? Lets talk.

Btw was just in Lisbon

Shap

Good advice

Still figuring that out. I like opening up the discussions because from things like this and the looking to buy thread it sparks ideas. There are some ways to still make good money in adult. It's not doing the same things that are being done that's for sure.

Brian mike

Hello Shap

I would like to ask how long haved you leave the industry ? how many Years ? month ?

I ask this because i really Like my adult business but once i will be out.... i would not come back at all lol.

Thanks

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Shap

4+ years but have had ties in it since then so i've always been around people still in it which always gets me wondering. Especially Joel. Bastard

Shap

April 2014
Found the email. Just replied. Shame on me. I suck at email but have worked hard to be better in the past..... day

Brian mike

Ahhhhhhhh , now i get it. You haved never leave the industry IMO.
That's the biggest of your issue right now, I think your stuck in the between. Are you scare of changing ? I mean doing something else completely ?
Before jumping back on the biz i would think twice especially you seems to have a foot out the door already.
But i feel you is like an addiction for some and a need to accomplish something for others.

Thanks

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Paul Markham

For the time your content wasn't weak for the Internet. It was good. The problem today is paysites are weaker than Tubes all but a few cases because in the main Paysite are doing little different that what you did when you started. Uploading new content that has little theme, personality, character or realism. It's cut and paste content and you can't beat Xhamster and Pornhub at their own game and ask people to pay for it.

Besides the camera, what's and who has changed?

My advice is to think how you will get there by doing the same thing you did 12, 24, 36 months and 6 years ago.

Most here will have moved to pushing traffic at Dating sites and cams. With a falling income. Because most are webmasters and unable to adapt in a way that 100,000 other webmasters can copy them. And there's the problem today. The days of most webmasters are numbered.

The future is about entertaining people. If your site does little more than hoping some passing traffic will click on a link, you're going to suffer. Big free entertainment sites are making the real money.

Provide value long term and money will follow. Like Google, Youtube, Xhamster, Facebook.

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Paul Markham

We've all met them. Then there are the guys who tell you what they can do with our content and how they will make us rich. If only we give it all to them and sit back and wait for our 50% of what turns out to be crap.

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Paul Markham

The problem for most here is their devotion to webmastering and traffic generation. That' worked in 2000. Today surfers demand more give it to them and they will stay, don't and they're gone.

Shoot entertainment not plastic porn.

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Brian mike

I was getting the same feeling when reading his post. That's a problem many will face it.

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Feng-PD

Was great to get some feedback from you. Hope you visit our little slack channel more often :D

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Shap

Will do! My pleasure!

Google Expert

So you want to jump in into someone elses business with them doing all the funding and you just providing comments?

Yeah, i wonder why there weren't any takers.

dig420

For someone such as myself, who has more resources and projects than he does time and the attention span to stay on top of it all, an admin level partner can be invaluable.

Paul Markham

What can someone who built a site in 2000, offer to someone running a site in 2016?

Advice on how to change what they're doing and come up with the approach that's proven to work?

Can either one do that?

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robwod

@Shap -- always nice chatting with you on email. From memory lane to gardening, it's always a pleasant interaction in my day.

@Paul Markham -- just wondering, do you ever have anything positive to say or is your entire world negative and pessimistic?

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woj

"admin level partner" would be expected to do the work, while you provide "resources"... making it a fair partnership... maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds like Shap doesn't want to do the "work", he wants a consulting gig, nothing wrong with that, but like "Google Expert" said, it's not very surprising that not many people want to give away a % of their existing business for what will likely turn into not much more than a few tips...

not sure if Shap has tried that already, but he should probably partner up with some company on "results based" basis, i.e. "I'll work with you for 6 months, when within 6 months your income improves by XX, I get XXXX, if not I get nothing"... under that scenario I'm sure there would be way more takers...

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Google Expert

Employee maybe. Based on productivity.

Partner? Doubt it.

His current lack of any business or otherwise meaningful affiliation (despite numerous attempts to jump right back in after the buyout) should tell you something of what he has to offer (not much).

Reading his threads over these years gives me a clear idea of what he's after: trying out something new without risking his own money (i.e. on someone elses expense). If you're up for it - got right ahead, it will be interesting to watch.

Struggle4Bucks

Actually, I was never approached by someone who told me he could make me rich...

The ones who contacted me about partnerships in the past were all pretty honest and real and no one promised golden rivers.

You keep telling people you can't get rich with paysites... Well... let's not forget this Paul... Who says people starting up paysites in 2016 expect to get rich? Maybe they want to do something they are passionate about on a day to day basis. What's wrong with doing what you like daily... far from getting rich, but happy and happy with a decent income. That's still better than being exploited and ass raped by the Walmart's of this world.

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Struggle4Bucks

I'll send you an email...

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The Porn Nerd

Yeah Paul, why should we listen to old timers who made it big when making it big was easy? Hopefully your endless paragraphs of sage advice will stop now.

SHAP: Let me lay out for you the reason why no one has taken you up on your many offers of "help" (including me):

Instead of having any skin in the game (money) you want to give your sage advice. Great! So a Program approaches you and says, "I need another 100K hits a day and based on my conversion ratios and experience we would kill it."

You: "OK, do X,Y and Z."

Program: "But if I do that it will take me x number of months/years to organically build those traffic sources. If you pony up 50K we can get those traffic sources built in a few months and jump-start this thing. If it's going to take me years to build something myself what do I need you for?"

You: "Um..."

Get it? Your advice is useful ONLY if it is actionable. If the Program has to do it all by themselves (invest their own resources) guess what? We don't need your advice. LOL

Sorry man but those are the realities. Put up or shut up.

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ZENRA

Very good advice Shap--especially about planning ahead.

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rabbit

my take is that most of the ideas you were pitched were shit. money is cheap these days. if the idea is good, money will find its way to it, even in adult. so if they are asking for money, is cause the project is weak. which is kind of sad because i think your input would be so much more valuable that the $$$ you would put.

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Feng-PD

Totally agree on this

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The Porn Nerd

While I am sure some of the ideas were pure shit and/or not worth Shap's time or resources I am ALSO sure some of the ideas were good and just require some investment more than advice.

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Paul Markham

My world is very positive, it just the porn industry that leads me to the negative side. Can you see any real evidence that it's growing?

Tubes dominate the industry by giving away what we once sold. Cams are changing and the positive thing now is models don't need to be tied up in a studio, they can work from home. They don't even need affiliates as much as they did. In the future models will be making a lot more, affiliates a lot less.

Dating is also undergoing a change, apps like Tinder are going to take even bigger chunks out of that market.

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