mopek1

I'd love for you to explain why.

mopek1

LOL at everyone quoting this and agreeing when you're not really saying anything except attacking people's character and giving off your opinion as truth while criticizing others for giving theirs.

RazorSharpe

I quoted it but I addressed only the 2 people he mentioned. I'll be honest, I haven't looked at stats and I'm not really interested in them. I operate under the assumption that smarter people than me are requesting that I wear a mask, so I will. If I get COVID and die, I won't be around to bitch about it so I'm not really doing this for myself, I'm doing it so I don't inadvertently make others ill. Pretty much the same reason I wear trousers when I go to the supermarket.

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mopek1

Well thanks for being honest about it. I'm used to people slinging mud on forums or social media etc., so I appreciate this.

I too operate under that same assumption, that people smarter than me know better as they have studied this field far more than myself.

The problem is who to look up to? The media? Fox news, CNN, MSNBC. I don't trust them one bit.

Politicians or politician doctors? I never trusted them before (left or right) and neither has anyone else so I don't trust what they are saying now.

I don't have to have a degree in epidemiology to know that when these people (politicians and politician doctors) contradict themselves constantly or don't answer questions or make claims that most scientists would balk at that they can't be trusted.

So I am skeptical of lock downs and masks and have to seek my own information from scientists and analysts who seem like they are trying their absolute best to interpret the data without bias.

The virus is a problem and there is a place for restrictions and masks but not to the degree that's being played out now.

RazorSharpe

I totally get it; sometimes you have to do what's best for you. There are however times you have to do what's best for others. At the end of the day, if you're comfortable with the decisions you make, that's the best you can do.

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Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.

Klen

Here is current restrictions for USA :
https://cz.usembassy.gov/covid-19-information-47/

RazorSharpe

Are masks also mandatory in pubs? I'd imagine it would make it very difficult to drink

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Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.

NoWhErE

That's your excuse? You get a runny nose? So the slightest loss in comfort is a good idea for you to risk everybody else's health? That's the very definition of being self-centered.

Also, does a condom feel uncomfortable? I bet you rip that baby off anytime you want. It's up to the other people to protect themselves from unwanted pregnancies and STDs.

Have you already forgotten what happened in Italy? You know... the country where the virus ran rampant because they were caught off guard and then the entire world desperately tried to prepare themselves so as to not have the same thing happen to them.

Also, do people REALLY need to start dropping dead in the streets for you to start preventative measures?

Again, YOU don't see it, therefore it not your problem? There's that pesky self-centeredness again.

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there. This is a basic understanding of science that is taught to 6-year-olds in school. You don't see air, but its there. You don't germs, but they are there.

And why in the hell would all of the countries in the world fake numbers up? What possible good would it do to anyone to destroy their economies and kill thousands of people?

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Klen

Yes both pubs and restaurants, but of course you can remove it when you drink/eat.

NoWhErE

Other people in this thread have tried to explain why, but you failed to understand.

But here's a really simple synopsis:

Masks help prevent the spread. Social distancing also helps prevent the spread. Both combined are not 100% effective, but it's much better than no preventative measures at all.

In any given scenario, regardless of whatever source of stats you look at, the brief moments where you feel uncomfortable wearing a mask or social distancing are nothing compared to the effects of not doing anything to help prevent the spread. Don't believe me? Look at China and Italy. They were the first to be hit and they took heavy losses.

Fortunately, we had more time to prepare. That's why it doesn't SEEM as bad here. But it could get worse if we stop preventative measures.

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mopek1

You said I was bad at interpreting stats. I asked you to explain why.

I gave you dates for mask mandates vs case increases + incidence of other countries with high mask usage and high case spikes.

Here in your paragraph above, you are not telling me why I am bad at interpreting stats.

You are telling me that masks + social distancing works. That isn't really a counter argument. That's just you telling me what you think is true.

Then you go on to tell me about 2 hard hit areas of countries (not countries - Wuhan + Lombardy), after telling me, "compared to the effects of not doing anything" ... I don't follow this? They did do something.

Then you said we had time to prepare and that's why we're not as bad off as those 2 hard hit areas. Well NY and NJ were hit hard and so was Quebec and it had nothing to do with being prepared or not.

And none of that explains why I am bad at interpreting stats.

The Porn Nerd

I find a couple things very funny about you:

1. You call other people scared cowards who need to grow up yet YOU are the spoiled selfish child throwing a tantrum because you are asked to wear a mask for a few minutes when going outside. LOL

2. You live in New York (like me) where we have the lowest % of Covid cases and rate of infection. Why is that? Oh yeah - IT'S BECAUSE WE WORE MASKS! Think you're a tough guy? Then try moving to fucking Alabama or Texas or Florida or South Dakota where people DON'T wear masks and the coronavirus is out of control. THEN we can see how tough you are! It's pretty easy to boast about your selfishness in a place where everyone else was following guidelines so old people like you wouldn't get sick and die. You are the joke man. LOL

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mopek1

The area in Italy that got hit was Lombardy and it had nothing to do with being caught off guard and everything to do with the particulars of that region.

Lombardy has a very old population with lots of 80+ year olds who have smoked all their lives and who live in an area of high pollution. Most of the deaths were in this age category with many having COPD already. Other ares of Italy fared just fine and some even better than average.

I remember everyone being glued to the TV when Lombardy was hit and saying, "that's going to happen to us all!" while dismissing the other doctors saying that this region had special circumstances.


No, but lots of people were saying just that 6 months ago including a few on GFY. I remember the threads well. People were also saying that on social media and in the news.

Now that we are 6 months in nobody (conveniently) remembers saying that at all.

The point is that these people were sure of what they were saying (without evidence) and telling us all that it WAS going to happen, that the rest of us who don't believe it are murderers and will be sorry when the bodies "pile up on the streets."

Here we are 6 months later and they are telling us we still have to lock down hard but have a different story this time, again without evidence. But they are sure of it, and of course we (who don't listen) are still murderers.

mopek1

LOL .... there you go again.

South Dakota is doing just fine.

The other states had their peaks (like every other state) and are settling down quite nicely - again with masks not being the reason why. All you have to do is compare the cases graph with the timing of mask mandates to see why.

But I suspect you will tell me, "whatever" and then continue to hammer your point across to anyone who will listen that masks work.

RazorSharpe

Do the stats you looked at suggest that wearing masks exacerbated the situation?

__________________
Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.

BlackCrayon

You can't ignore the real data that some 214k more people died in the US alone than last year. There aren't that many suicides and overdoses. That is not 'what the flu does every year'. Sorry.

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newB

Where did you post stats?

I saw the anecdote about Miami, and that actually conforms to the virus' 2 week latency period and the 4th of July holiday weekend.

Same thing with Hawaii, an uptick in June, then the start of a major surge in late July. However, despite a population of 1.416 million they've only had 10,097 total cases so far and 90 deaths - well below the national average, per capita.

Japan used very little testing, and had a vested interest to suppress reported cases anyway, that their historical numbers are all but meaningless. That said, with a population of 126.5 million, 73,221 cases, and 1,406 deaths, they have a much higher per capita infection ratio than the US. Possibly due to being told they were doing such a great job that people became careless.

Anyhoo, plenty of actual scientific evidence to support the efficacy of masks:
Still Confused About Masks? Here’s the Science Behind How Face Masks Prevent Coronavirus

A rapid systematic review of the efficacy of face masks and respirators against coronaviruses and other respiratory transmissible viruses for the community, healthcare workers and sick patients

Universal use of face masks for success against COVID-19: evidence and implications for prevention policies

As has been stated and restated countless times already, wearing a mask is to protect others, not yourself. Your not wearing a mask is a big fat "FUCK YOU" to everybody who is wearing theirs to protect you.

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Smack dat

See my conspiracy thread

mopek1

That's a good question but from what I understand it's too hard to tell unless the data was overwhelming.

Masks are one variable in a complex system of variables. You can only say they don't work if they don't correlate with the changes in cases.

For example if everyone suddenly wore masks and the cases spiked then they don't work. It could be because of another variable but in most of the countries and states the variables stayed the same or became even more resolute (lock downs) so nothing changed except for masks.

But you can't say they make it worse as there are other variables to consider. Maybe cases spiked because young people are partying etc...

Speigelau

RazorSharpe

So if there's no irrefutable evidence that masks make things worse, don't you owe it to yourself, and the people around you, to wear one? What's the worst that could happen?

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Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.

notinmybackyard

Geeezzz letting other people telling you what to think seems like it's not working out for you.

So here's some crazy old fashion ideas that probably won't work but if you're bored you can try anyway.

• How about educating yourself?
  You can look up the numbers and then do the math.

• The maybe if you're feeling bold and not too mentally exhausted..
  You can use your brain to come to your own conclusions based on the math you just did.

I know such suggestions sound like foolishness. You see I'm an old man and therefore probably senile. So I have these CRazY nostalgic ideas from the 1940s that it's better to use your own brain and to think for yourself.

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mopek1

The anecdote you refer to. I be more specific below.

See Miami's curve here:
https://www.google.ca/search?ei=XE1a...4dUDCAw&uact=5

Miami mandated masks indoors April 9th.
https://www.miamidade.gov/releases/2...2020-masks.asp

As you can see on the graph, cases were unchanged after the mask law. So masks didn't diminish the case count.

Then, with masks still mandated indoors, they mandated them outdoors July 2nd.
https://www.bizjournals.com/southflo...rd-county.html

So you would think that cases surly would go down especially after mandating them since April. But as you can see on the graph again they started going up mid-June (nothing to do with the July 4th weekend). They were already going up with masks mandated indoors. Cases shouldn't be going up but they are. Then masks were mandated July 2nd outdoors and they stayed high until the end of July.

If masks worked then cases should have gone down in April. But they stayed the same.
They definitely shouldn't have gone up the way they did in June.

Every country, state or area has similar curves regardless of how hard you lock down or wear masks. Just look at Peru - highest deaths per capita with an insane and inhumane lock down and mask mandate vs other areas with no masks, lighter lock downs and less cases and deaths.




Yes they did okay. But why did cases spike if they were wearing masks? They should have at least gone down a little.

This is speculation. And your math is wrong. The USA has 6.8 million cases reported. Japan at 73k ... so their cases per capita is much lower.

But still they were all wearing masks and still had a spike of cases in July. If masks worked that should not happen.

If masks worked we should be able to measure it.

https://www.google.ca/search?ei=_09a...UDCAw&ua ct=5

And plenty against. I could cite a page full.

shemalehunters

One of my close friends got it, he was healthy one day and the next day he got super sick and now he's recovering, also saw someone die from it in my neighborhood

mopek1

LOL ... I think you're funny. And I don't mean that in a disrespectful manner.

I do think for myself. I get other people's opinions and expertise then make my own decisions. That's what I meant.

bean-aid

I'm not saying to ask for justification. I'm saying wearing the same mask all the time when in wherever is disgusting. Masks don't do shit. Friend works in a warehouse. Doors all open, fans blowing like crazy, all wearing masks, half of the workers (around 20) just got the shit bug over a 4 day period and had to go home for 1 to 3 days because it was so bad. Again, all wearing masks. They did not get the shit bug through their eyes.

Rest of your comments are dumb. No need for reply

Smack dat

In addition to this I have a friend who is partially blind. He replies on lip reading for the most part.
Since everyone now wears masks be is feeling depressed and suicidal as he doesn't think he can communicate.

King Mark

Did his condition exist pre-corona?

CourtneyR

I've had a few affiliates with it. As well as a few coworkers family members.

__________________

Smack dat

Obviously. He could read lips before. Now he can't. Sucks to be him.

King Mark

The general consensus for those against masks is the lives of those with pre-existing conditions don't matter and they can just stay home like a pussy.

Smack dat

He doesn't have pre-exisitng conditions apart from being hard of hearing. He is very fit and healthy..

CaptainHowdy

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baddog

You can't figure it out? What do you think happens?

baddog

A blind person that relies on lip reading?

King Mark

Freudian slip

bean-aid

Everything is normal here...

RazorSharpe

Sorry America's answer to DVTimes, I don't recall asking "what happens". I did however ask if masks were mandatory in pubs in the Czech Republic.

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BaldBastard

Google Transcribe

https://twitter.com/SECAmb_Danny/sta...71390107361285

notinmybackyard

You know the old saying? Opinions are like assholes in that everyone has one.

So let me say something from my generation.
There are 2 kinds of opinions

• 1) Opinions that you earned the right to have
  IE: Those are the opinions that you did your own research and now hold from a position of knowledge

• 2) Opinions that have been given to you by other people
  IE: A bunch of assholes told you what they think and now you believe similarly

Have any of these NOBLE mask wearers stopped to think about what they're doing to children?

• Today's children are being flooded with a message of fear and death.
• They're being constantly told that people are dangerous and to stay away from everyone.
• That at any given moment they might come in contact with a virus and die.
• Or they might accidentally cause someone else to die.

I willing to be that in 10 years we're going to see an unimaginable suicide rate among the young. If they're lucky they might only suffer from depression or become social morons.

All because a bunch of scared cowards felt it was more important to wear a mask and lie to themselves that they're being noble. That they're protecting old bastards, such as myself, from death.

I have less days ahead of me than I do behind me. Therefore morally, if anyone is going to sacrifice their life for someone else's benefit it's the old people like me.

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RazorSharpe

How exactly do YOU research this? Do you have a lab? Do you document your own trials, crunch the numbers, look at various permutations and scenarios? No? Then everything you said above is absolute claptrap!


Firstly, I'm amazed at how you went from not giving a fuck about anyone but yourself to "I'm thinking about the children". You're probably not allowed with a 100 yards of kids because if you were, you'd know that they aren't delicate little flowers like yourself. I've seen kids remind their parents about social distancing when out in public.

You bandy the word coward around when the reality is you're afraid of a small piece of cloth over your nose and mouth. People aren't being asked to wear masks to be noble; that's an absurd look at the situation. They're being asked to wear them to prevent the spread of a virus. That's not nobility, that's preservation.

Just because your best days are behind you doesn't give you the right to put at risk the people who actually want to come out the other side of this.

I don't even know why I'm having to explain simple stuff like this to a grown man, and I'm pretty sure you'll come back with some other insane objection and resort to your coward partyline, but I had to try.

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notinmybackyard

I'm not thinking about YOUR children....

More precisely my grandchildren and great grandchildren.

Honestly, I don't give a damn what a bunch of Social Justice cowards pretending to be noble do to their families. Rest assure that one way or another I'll make money from them and the more fucked in the head they are the easier it'll be. The way things are going I'm sure in 5 to 10 years that I'll be able to legally produce videos of real sexual suicides.

However, I don't want my family being mentally screwed up because some jackass wants to walk around showing the world what a good little boy he is because he wears his mask.

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mopek1

I agree.

This happens almost everywhere. People all wearing masks yet getting sick in bunches just the same. Warehouses, construction, salons, churches, offices, everywhere.

N95 masks do something but even then aren't 100% effective. Cloth masks are next to useless.

mopek1

Young students also - grades Kindergarten to 4 - are affected by this. They learn how to pronounce words and learn 2nd languages at school by looking at the teachers mouth as she speaks.

mopek1

Have you asked all of us if that's what our consensus is? Have you listened to why we don't like masks? Or is it just easier to say that we are all assholes and murders?

mopek1

I'll agree with you here. Lots of mask wearing is virtue signalling.

Before the mask laws in my area I'd say 40% of people wore them inside stores. That means 60% of people were fine without them.

Of the 40% I'd say that 20% were genuinely scared and 20 were virtue signalers. The virtue signalers are the loudest bunch and because they are more vocal (and the media likes them) they make it seem like they represent the majority.

Of course government mandating masks make it seem like everyone is in agreement with them.

Much of mask wearing is optics and political theater.

just a punk

I know many id them.

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mopek1

That post of yours above - that's not my quote. I do know someone who got it.

You quoted the title of this thread and mistakenly attributed it to me.

NoWhErE

I took the time to replace "masks" with seatbelts in your reply. Notice how suddenly its like we're back to 1976 when the exact same arguments were being made against mandatory seatbelts?

Look at where we're at today and how we look back at anti-seatbelters from back then.

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mopek1

I remember there was a lot of resistance to seat belts back then. Turns out the anti seat-belters were wrong.

There are numerous examples of people resisting change in history. Sometimes they were right and sometimes they were wrong.

Just because you cite an example in the past where "people who resisted change" were wrong, doesn't mean that every single instance of people resisting change is incorrect.

Look at the Woke community. People are resisting political correctness and they are correct to do so. The Woke community is trying to change our society and many are resisting. We don't want the change and are correct about this.