CDSmith

I've about had it with trading with scripted sites. I'm talking about the big intricate $1200 fancy-ass scripts that do everything but pick the webmaster's nose. I've run into so many problems with these trades I lost count months ago, plus I know literally dozens of webmasters that are now having serious regrets about making the move to scripted sites. Many of them are now making the move to UN-script.

Why? The answer isn't as complicated as setting up one of these damn things. I'll tell you from the perspective of the other webmaster first:

I get tons of webmasters asking for link trades as usual, only now it's "just send me hits and my script will reset at midnight and send you hits back tomorrow" or "come to my site and sign up for a trade". Of course in the good old days (early 2000) it was customary for webmasters wanting a link trade to actually PUT UP your link first, and then ask for the trade. This was common courtesy, a thing that I still do to this day.

Also, a lot of scripts "prioritize" your trade, so if you only start out making their top 25-40, you are what they term "low priority" thus you wait for your hits until everyone else get's theirs. I RARELY get back what I send from such scripts. OR, the script controls every outlink on the main page of the site, thus every link is a blind link, so all of my quality targeted hits go to them, and I get back all blind shit traffic.

The only good thing I've seen so far in scripts is that I've had about 2 dozen or so webmasters tell me how high my productivity level is. Like I didn't know that?

From the perspective of the scripted site owner:
There are scripts that also keep track of your "owed hits" and some of these scripts seem to operate in the minus at all times, no matter how big your site is or how high your quality is. Strange, I don't recall some of these sites ever having much problems with their owed hits before the script.

Script problem 2 -- what about trading with another scripted site? Sometimes both scripts are set up so that the other must initiate the trade, and since neither is about to send any hits to the other first, guess what?... that's right, no trade! I had a good laugh when I first heard that one. The problem is that many many scripts are designed to "sit back and wait for hits" before a trade is initiated, and some are programmed to reset to a new trade every day. Now, what if I were to email any of you and say "I'd like to trade traffic with you. Just Put up my link in a good spot, send me lots of hits and sometime in the next 12-24 hours I'll start sending you hits back" -- you'd tell me to go fuck myself with a swiffer wet-jet for fuck sakes. What makes you scripted site owners think that guys like me are any more willing to put up with this shit?

Some scripts have problems tracking hits from freehosts for some reason. Why am I not surprised?

Bottom line, I believe that to all concerned, scripts are usually more trouble than they're worth. I've honestly only had a small few trades with scripted sites that were productive in BOTH directions for any meaningful length of time, which is sad considering the amount of cash some people are tossing away for these scripts.

Don't think I'm dissing the webmasters, I'm not. I'm down on all the blind faith so many of us have placed in the golden script, and I'm down on the scripts themselves. I think they've made some webmasters pretty goddam lazy as well. Fine, let the script do all the work, as long as it does it correctly.

Anyone feel the same way or similar? Am I the only one that's fucking pissed off with knocking my head against every boy and his dog's scripted sites? I send out 90 hits to the script, my tracker reads only 30 back. You'd think a $1200 script would be a bit more accurate than that. I think I'll stick with the ol' tracker-and-my-wits method, thank you very much.

What about you? Still wanna drop 1-2 thou on a magical script?
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* <a href="http://www.erasercash.com/wm.html?ID=1380291" TARGET="_blank"><font face="Verdana" color="#FFCCCC">ERASERCASH!</font></a> Earn $35 per sale + webmaster referrals 4 LEVELS DEEP</font>
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[This message has been edited by CDSmith (edited 08-14-2001).]

SixNine

CDSmith,
What trafic trading site do you run? I'll show you that script sites work!
LMK,

SixNine

CDSmith

Shoot me a mail bro, I'll email you my list of sites. [email protected]

What, you gonna "give me a 200% ratio"? LOL

Let me know your max trade possible right now, and I'll see if I have a site or two that can handle it.

And thanks.
<font face="Verdana">___________
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* <a href="http://www.erasercash.com/wm.html?ID=1380291" TARGET="_blank"><font face="Verdana" color="#FFCCCC">ERASERCASH!</font></a> Earn $35 per sale + webmaster referrals 4 LEVELS DEEP</font>
* <a href="http://www.topbucks.com/affiliate/clickthru.cgi?id=1448" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#FFFFDD"> $40/signup, $50/recur, 65% partnerships</font></a> + free content, free daily galleries!
* <a href="http://www.stiffycash.com/?referer=cdsmith" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#FFCCFF">Make $35 per $1.95 Trial!!</font></a> Free content, ya you gonna get a big stiffy!

Wildman

CD,

Gotta agree with you there. I always find the system funny.
"Want to trade 200?"
"Sure"
"Cool, just send them to me whenever. You are in my database"



Wildman.

------------------
-----------------------
A New way to Wealth - http://www.avscash.com

CDSmith

Ya, as opposed to the good old days of --
"Hi, saw your site, looks awesome, I have your link already up on my main page at {url}, can you trade 200/day with me?"

There wasn't too many little satisfactions for the webmaster that could compare to the feeling you used to get whenever you'd go to a site like that and find your link actually there, then you check your tracker and you see hits actually coming from it.

ME-MO-RIEEEEES!
<font face="Verdana">___________
CD
* <a href="http://www.erasercash.com/wm.html?ID=1380291" TARGET="_blank"><font face="Verdana" color="#FFCCCC">ERASERCASH!</font></a> Earn $35 per sale + webmaster referrals 4 LEVELS DEEP</font>
* <a href="http://www.topbucks.com/affiliate/clickthru.cgi?id=1448" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#FFFFDD"> $40/signup, $50/recur, 65% partnerships</font></a> + free content, free daily galleries!
* <a href="http://www.stiffycash.com/?referer=cdsmith" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#FFCCFF">Make $35 per $1.95 Trial!!</font></a> Free content, ya you gonna get a big stiffy!

danevans

Find a compromise.. Get an in/out hit counting script, and do the trades manually..

Juicy D. Links

interesting analysis :-)

CDSmith

You know, there are a lot of other sites that have these "mostly-free" little trade scripts that pretty much just track all incoming hits and it ranks the top referrers accordingly. Now THAT type of script would be a time-saver in my thinking. I mean, not having to manually rank your referrers every few days would really save time for a guy like me for sure, so I honestly have no quarrel with such sites. It's the 100% scripted sites where the webmaster thinks the almighty script is infallible that I take issue with.

I'm beginning to have little patience with sites like this, that say they've set my return ratio at 150% or more, yet I see my site's standing on their site in good position, and on my tracker I see only a fraction of the hits coming back. It ain't right, and it sucks with great big lips.

Aside from ranting about scripts, I'm also pretty fed up with webmasters that just don't seem to do what they say they will. I mean, do you not WANT more hits? Are you not trying for more good quality traffic? If not, what the hell ARE you after? So many times I give up on a trade wondering if a particular webmaster is just braindead or what? (especially when my emails go unanswered)
Duhhhh. bye.

I believe that it isn't scripts that make good trades, it is communication between actual webmasters that keeps good trades going. If I see a major problem with my top trades, I'll send email asking about it and what we can do to fix it. Let's see a script do that.
<font face="Verdana">___________
CD
* <a href="http://www.erasercash.com/wm.html?ID=1380291" TARGET="_blank"><font face="Verdana" color="#FFCCCC">ERASERCASH!</font></a> Earn $35 per sale + webmaster referrals 4 LEVELS DEEP</font>
* <a href="http://www.topbucks.com/affiliate/clickthru.cgi?id=1448" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#FFFFDD"> $40/signup, $50/recur, 65% partnerships</font></a> + free content, free daily galleries!
* <a href="http://www.stiffycash.com/?referer=cdsmith" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#FFCCFF">Make $35 per $1.95 Trial!!</font></a> Free content, ya you gonna get a big stiffy!

Warphead

"Of course in the good old days (early 2000) it was customary for webmasters wanting a link trade to actually PUT UP your link first, and then ask for the trade. This was common courtesy, a thing that I still do to this day."

Amen CD, it's so annoying for someone to write me asking for a trade and when I reply they tell me to go ahead and start sending and they'll return.

I use one of those "mostly free" referral counting scripts you were talking about, it's a handy little tool - but I'm in control rather than it. I'm with ya 100% on this one.

Pete

Hey CD, I dont agree with you man. I used to trade in "The Good Old Days" and I know how much of a pain in the ass it was chasing down guys that arent sending you as much as you are sending them, updating my site 5-10 times a day to even out all trades and add new ones. I used to get 50 fucking e-mails a day from people wanting trades and some wanting more or less traffic. It was nuts.

Now that I have script, it does most of the work. You say that you cant get a good return from scripted sites? Sure you can. Just email the guy and ask for a permanent link. I use script and I also have perm. links to give additional traffic. I force traffic out to sites to start new trades instead of e-mailing the guy and waiting for him to add my link whenever the fuck he feels like it. Now I get traffic back imediately. Simply e-mail the webmaster and ask for a good return. I set my script to send out more than I receive and he does the same, this will keep the trade going strong.

Actually, it was you that showed me the way in this buisness a couple years ago.

Remember me?

Pete
Daily Hooters

SixNine

CD I sent you a mail bro.

TheFLY

Wow I really like this topic.

First of all CD -- you are a webmaster... You design and run your site the WAY YOU WANT TO... In essence YOU HAVE A SCRIPT -- or a process that you follow when updating your site. You COULD code a script to automate that process for you! That's why I coded my script. My site needed to be updated every day and I was turning away 90% of my link trade requests because I knew in my heart that I would just not be able to keep up with all the dead links, redirected traffic, changed sites, looking through hundreds of referrers, etc... Also I owed the IRS a bunch of money -- I was like fuck I need to come up with a solution -- so I wrote my script so that I could trade with a LOT more sites...

NOW I do have problems w/ my script. First of all my script is entirely unique since I coded it from scratch and nobody has one quite like it. Very simply though my script, on the whole, *usually* sends back less traffic than it takes in. This is really my own fault -- either a design flaw in my site, lack of frequent updates, or because I have too much content... It's not because I have too many ads because I really have very few ads on my site I think...

In any case -- for those that don't know much about scripts... Most of these scripted sites work with only blind links. That's because the programmers of these scripts are too fucking stupid and lazy IMHO to work with non-blind links. Most of these scripts don't chage the content of the HTML -- they may use the same blind link to send traffic to a several dozen sites... So you may have a link that says "donkey loving" sending traffic to a leg fetish site -- which is totally a waste of traffic for many reasons which I don't have time to explain here. Blind links send out a lot of traffic which improve "productivity" -- which in essence gives everyone a false sense of security and reward. Most people that trade w/ scripted sites do get back what they put in -- but generally it's totally bullshit traffic like CD is saying.

That's another reason why I wrote my script -- because I realized that this new generation of sites was sending me tons of totally useless traffic and I had NO IDEA who was sending me quality traffic and who was sending me SHIT! The days of the top 10 rankings were DEAD AND GONE a LONG ASS TIME AGO! Anyone that uses a top 10 script is TOOL! Your top referrers are most likely sending you total SHIT traffic and you are getting SCREWED!

Secondly -- when you trade w/ scripted sites that have 75-99% blind links... You lose. BECAUSE your surfers will get pissed at you for sending them to a shit site. This lowers your credibility AND your signups will GO DOWN because WHO TRUSTS A LIAR?!!

Also many of the scripts can be cheated -- in that case the cheaters get your good traffic -- meanwhile someone like CD is getting fucked over.

Most of these script sites have NO FUTURE. Build something that will last -- something that will grow. Did you know that when you build a quality site -- SURFERS REMEMBER YOU -- word-of-mouth traffic is the #1 source of traffic! How many times have you been in a bar or in school and heard guys talking about their favorite sites! It's true! And the best part of having a quality site is that you will have fans -- and many of these fans will be webmasters! And many of these fans will BECOME webmasters! They will ask *YOU* for trades. They will *WANT* to trade with your site! Also -- when you have a quality site without blind links and original content that you have permission to use... You will ATTRACT the attention of other webmasters with quality sites! As soon as I started adding more pics to my site I started getting better quality submissions!

Anyway I could go on -- 99% of this is common sense but most webmasters fail to see it... There are no get-rick-quick answers. The people that are making money bust there ass -- they work hard on their sites. Remember that surfers are real people -- not just numbers. When you treat them like people -- in the long run I think you will make money money.

Another problem w/ scripted sites -- all the links that look like this go.cgi?2352533&ID=5445gfdFGDFG+fuck_me -- you know that scares off a lot of surfers... Even with mouseovers... But there's not much we can do -- the future is all cgi or php or whatever -- so surfers just need to get used to all those wierd link codes... But I think that hurts output somewhat. Also SE's have a hard time w/ scripted sites so I think scripted sites get less SE traffic than most other sites...

If you want to trade links -- I will do what CD hates... Submit to my script here -- http://www.thefly.net/cgi-bin/newuser.cgi

You don't have to send me ANY traffic until I review and approve of your site, I add you to my database, initially send you some traffic, and contact you... Also if I like your site and you have some unique content I can provide you w/ a fixed link that is unaffected by the script (but I still track the traffic ;)

In the end though a script is just a way to automate our daily (boring) routine of updating our pages... But a script is only as good as its programmer and the ideas and thinking behind it.

TheFLY

I think I was a too harsh when I said that the programmers of certain scripts were stupid and lazy... I've never actually used those scripts and I'm pretty sure -- like Pete said -- that these scripts can set up perm links so blind links are optional w/ these scripts. I just really detest blind links and the fact that I get so many submissions from SHIT sites that have so many blind links.

CDSmith

Pete & Pete --
You guys would be the few exceptions. Pete-da-fly, you wrote your own script, and you know how to tweak it to perform fairly, whereas a lot of store-bought-script users don't really know much about the damn things, thus they simply rely on them to do all the work. I've had no problems ever trading with your site Pete (da fly), and for the record, you were running that script long before most others even knew what they were.

Pete-from-the-moon --
You are sooo in the minority it isn't even funny. Your words...

"Just email the guy and ask for a permanent link"

Don't think I haven't done this. The answer I've gotten EVERY time is "I want to keep all my trades within the script, I don't go outside the script because it takes away from the purpose of the script. Manual trades take up too much time"
Ya, tell me about it. It's called webmastering.

"I use script and I also have perm. links to give additional traffic. I force traffic out to sites to start new trades instead of e-mailing the guy and waiting for him to add my link whenever the fuck he feels like it"

You just proved my entire point. 99% of scripted site owners are not willing to do what you just described bro, trust me on this. You are the exception, and my post was not pointed at guys like you. By saying those words you actually are agreeing with me, think about it. You've obviously had some negative experiences with trading with scripted sites too, similar to me.

I say we trade traffic, hit me up on ICQ (31024634)
<font face="Verdana">___________
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* <a href="http://www.stiffycash.com/?referer=cdsmith" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#FFCCFF">Make $35 per $1.95 Trial!!</font></a> Free content, ya you gonna get a big stiffy!

Pete

Ok ok, so maybe there arent too many webmasters that will add a permanent link. Fact is, most webmasters that use script now are just too fucking lazy to bother with adding permanent links anymore. It really defeats the purpose of the script anyway. For me though, I just choose my favourite sites or my top referring sites and add perms for them. I am trying to go to less blind links over time. Adding good permanent links is a step forward. Pete the Fly wouldnt trade with me a couple weeks ago so I will have to try and get up to his specifications :-)

There is good and bad things about using script. I say mostly good things though :-)

I'll try to hit you up on ICQ CD but if not just e-mail me from the mighty Daily Hooters

ED

Words taken right out off my mouth...
I wrote my script so my site would run as similar to how my site ran non-scripted as i could. I think for the most part it works. My top 10 do NOT send me crap traffic because i ignore unproductive hits. I have some content, and i wrote my script to update HTML. I use LARGE textlinks for larger trades.

Well i could go on but the bottom line is that i did for me what I thought was best and maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but at least i thought about what i was going to do for a long time. I think that most people( most new people ) come into the game and almost immediately get a script. They don't know how it works or how to design a site that can send good traffic... they just fill it up with tricks and blind links and if they make money then they're happy.


Hope you all have a nice day.
ED



[This message has been edited by ED (edited 08-17-2001).]

HQ

i'm like ED, wrote my script to run my site as if it was a non-scripted site. no blind links ('cept a few thumbs)... the rest are totally non-blind text links.

oh yeah, and all 100% of my links are REAL links (not cgi) so that i improve everyone's SE rankings due to link popularity... something i rarely get back in return.

and even though my script expects hits in first, i can manually set up trades at the exact same time. when i do this, the link on my site is a permanent link (for 24 hours, then it's position is adjusted accordingly).

so there's good ways to run a site scripted.

dada

I find scripts are great

that's becaause they make the trade grow...

ED

oh my.

Six

I'm fixing to throw away "Trading" completely and attempt to make my site a brand name again. I would have been a lot better of now if i woulda never invested in any scripts... I started with the X-3 then moved up to the UCJ. More or less I think scripts turn traffic into trash and kills your Traffic to bookmark ratio.

That is one of the reason's and problems that I think will stop most script ran sites into catching the largest TGP's. U can only get so far with trading.

But I hope ppl keep doing it this way, go after the fast traffic.... Makes it easier 4 me to grow the slow way lol

boneprone

if you can run a site without a script more power to ya.

Much respect to the large sites that dont use them.

Too many fucking circle jerk, script sites.. Matter of time before the market saturates and they go back to flippin burgers.



------------------
And That's The Bottom Line Cause Boneprone Said So.

tom

the fly

se´s dont have just problems with cgi´s - they just dont follow the links (some even stop crawling the page!)

tom

CDSmith

I am so glad I took the time to rant on this subject. Some of you guys have shown that there are ways of running scripts intelligently, so as to make trading more productive for all, and that's great. But again, you're in the minority, And for newbies that don't know "who's who" you are a pretty rare find indeed. Actually, if you didn't already know this, I'll tell you guys (pete, HQ, ED etc) when newbies ask me "who is good to trade with?) I send em to you guys.

I hope that some other script-users will read your words and wise up some, because trading with all-blind scripted sites is fun for about 3 to 5 days (the hits look nice on your tracker, I'll give them that), but anyone that is "in tune" with their own site will see the following week that his trades are not any more productive than before the trade, and in many cases it's less productive. Why? Because although the #'s look nice, the traffic is untargeted crap traffic, that's why. ALSO, CJ sites that send you 2k hits a day in exit traffic, where you only really get about 200 REAL surfers that actually click a link on your site (if you're lucky), and then those CJ webmasters expect 1200 or 1500 GOOD hits back from you?? What the fuck kind of trade is that? Only a braindead idiot would go along with this, and only an asshole would expect this kind of shit. (hey, I gotta add to my rant every so often )

Thanks all for your great input so far. Sixnine, I sent you an email back, guess you're still a busy boy. I'm here working online most of today (editing my new "blond babe on motorcycle" pics I took yesterday in da park) (she even did some "flasher-babe in trenchcoat" shots, amazing)
Ciao (chee-owe)
<font face="Verdana">___________
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* <a href="http://www.stiffycash.com/?referer=cdsmith" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#FFCCFF">Make $35 per $1.95 Trial!!</font></a> +Free content! Is that a stiffy or a wad of 50's?

CDSmith

By the way, I forgot to reply to HQ regarding the link popularity aspect....

From day one, I've always given my recips an accurate text link. To this day, to begin a trade I put up a combination of links for each site -- text link always. Then if I want to send them more hits, I put up a descriptive text link (if your site is HQ daily nude, then a typical descriptive text link might be "daily updated high quality nude")
-- and if I really want to send hits, I'll add a thumb link with similar descriptive text above and below it, or I'll just label the thumb as leading to your site. I find that this combination sends out a good amount of hits to a trade, usually with a productivity level of 120 - 140, sometimes higher.

Thoughts? Hey, there's room for improvement everywhere, right? I can't stand people that think they have "arrived" and that what they're doing is the best it will ever be and can't be improved on. In onther words to such people: your shit stinks like the rest of ours.
<font face="Verdana">___________
CD
* <a href="http://www.erasercash.com/wm.html?ID=1380291" TARGET="_blank"><font face="Verdana" color="#FFCCCC">ERASERCASH!</font></a> Earn $35 per sale + webmaster referrals 4 LEVELS DEEP</font>
* <a href="http://www.topbucks.com/affiliate/clickthru.cgi?id=1448" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#FFFFDD"> $40/signup, $50/recur, 65% partnerships</font></a> + free content, free daily galleries!
* <a href="http://www.stiffycash.com/?referer=cdsmith" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#FFCCFF">Make $35 per $1.95 Trial!!</font></a> +Free content! Is that a stiffy or a wad of 50's?

HQ

very true.

most webmasters that use a script haven't programmed it themselves and this only makes for a lot of uneducated webmasters. you wouldn't believe how many webmasters that have thought exit stats (that were all blind linked) was what i actually saw come to my site. fuck that. if the surfer coming to my site and does NOTHING but close it down, i don't count the hit. that's my productivity tracking right there! chances are he/she didn't want to come in the first place.

what sucks about my script is that it doesn't send huge amounts of traffic (the only way to do so is to trick every surfer you get). a lot of scripts just don't take into account that my traffic is much more productive than most, and they reject the trade.