TuffCall

All that is true. (see the very first post) and I've been injecting for 60 days now.

bushwacker

Sorry man, that is BULLSHIT, but it's a great story.

TuffCall

lol Why do say this is bullshit?

Badmaash

Thats a bit low isn't it?

HGh works best with Inslulin..... but you can also take it half an hour beofre eating something then take some fast acting carbs and then the sugar spike should trigger your natural insluin levels maybe thats would create the prefect amounts of hormone for HGH.... I cannot remeber.

Bump up the iu's to 6 a day 2iu's x 3 a day

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Badmaash

2iu's is a bit low to see those drastic changes and only in 60 days........

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TuffCall

For bodybuilding.....yes, it is low from what I understand. But, for just feeling better, healthier, etc... (I'm 45 6'3 and was 270) it is fine for what I wanted (per the doctor). Actually, he recommended I take 3 i.u's, but I can only afford 2 per day.

TuffCall

Whatever. I have no reason to lie or exaggerate. Those are my results thus far. You have no reason to say what I have said is Bullshit.

d-null

not necessarily, especially if his own endogenous hgh levels were near zero


for a young guy with normal hgh levels already, you are correct and he would likely see no difference, but for a guy that has extremely low levels naturally he is much more likely to notice positive effects much sooner


same goes for testosterone, if you give a young guy with normal levels a 200mg shot of cypionate per week, he will likely notice absolutely nothing for the first couple of weeks, but give the same shots to a guy with hypogonadism that is producing nearly zero natural testosterone and he will notice a change in a matter of a couple of days

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Badmaash

I did not know that his HGH levels wre totally depleted...

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d-null

who is to say for sure, but you should always consider that there may be possibilities you haven't thought about before assuming that a guy is wrong when he tells you of his experience


endocrinology is a very complex science, with many hormonal interactions that we don't necessarily understand, what works for one person might not have any effect in another person, it is very individual and there are a million variables that make it important to not generalize

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bushwacker

Thank you.

bushwacker

Well if that's the case, congrats.

d-null

thank him for what? joining you in going along with your blinders on and not considering more than your narrow frame of possibility?

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Badmaash

Okay, but you should also consider that it could be phychological changes rather than rel changes... as you said, there are too many unknown variables in this story, so unless we take the subject and do tests on him to establish his body makeup and hormone profle at the moment we are all just having a good conversation that cannot be concluded correctly based on this one person who we knwo nothing about.

Its been a great chat though....

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Badmaash

Hello - no one said it was bullshit, it is still my opinion the those levels are low..... however if you had great results on those dosages then great

If I thought you were chatting shit then I would have said it.

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BlackCrayon

If there are all pros and no cons why is the sale of it so regulated? There are no easy answers in life, in my opinion, and this just seems way too easy. There has to be a downside.

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TheSenator

This thread is useless without before and after pics.

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Major (Tom)

You have to watch for recrimps. Also, the sterility comes into play. Yea the mex stuff aint bad, it's just not sterile.
Duke

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Major (Tom)

I wouldnt trust any place online
Duke

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TuffCall

BEFORE:


AFTER:

TuffCall

If anyone is interested, leave your email here and I will put you in contact with my legal source.

Major (Tom)

duke AT dukedollars dot com

thx
ds

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Robbie

I understand what you are trying to say...but yes, the life expectancy of a human being was never what it is today.

And yes, hormones CAN cause all of those things....if abused.

Taken at the proper doseage you will have thicker hair, clearer skin, higher mental clarity, less wrinkles, and a great sex life.

And my balls are freakin' huge! lol

Matter of fact when I hang around black guys I tend to tuck my balls over to the same side as my penis so that it looks like I have as big of a package.

I'm just arguing for quality of life here.

And I would also argue for people's rights to vanity and bodybuilding if they choose to.

And I'll also defend folks who wish to get old and frail.

I'm 100% for personal choice.

Edit: Oh I forgot to say this about "you aren't going to die" part of your statement.
You may not roll over and kick like a cockroach right away. That is true. But if you stay healthy and strong you can add many fruitful years to your life. Lifting weights not only creates muscle (which burns unhealthy fat) but also strengthens bones. Cardiovascular excercise added in strengthens the heart. All of the above contribute to good mental health by release of endorphins. And all of those things added up help your immune system to stay strong and fight off disease that can kill you.

And a lot of having the capability to build muscle and start that cycle is getting your body in a proper hormonal balance.

We've learned to delay death. Now we need to learn how to extend the act of LIVING and enjoying life.

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-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Manowar

anyone else want to take hgh after reading this? lol

Major (Tom)

You're right Robbie. A little refined pregnant womans pee (HCG) always helps the doo dads stay large and functioning.
The funny thing is i got so strong so fast i hurt my wrist. I can rep 315 and max about 405 up from 225 several months ago. But the mental clarity you speak of is a rock solid truth, So far, knock on wood, i was abkle to ditch my anxiety meds. That's amazing if you think about it. I was on that shit since 97.
Duke

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d-null

fair enough, and good to see you're open minded, it's always food for thought when someone reports a different experience than one we've seen first hand ourselves

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d-null

kind of like alcohol?

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Robbie

You know, I've never used HCG or any post therapy. I never took anything until I was 40 years old. Since then I've just figured that testosterone is something I need to do every week. But I don't use much. Just enough to keep my levels good and high.
Plus my balls were already huge to begin with
A little shrinkage wouldn't be a bad thing...but I have never had any testicular shrinkage at all. Probably because I'm just using test once a week at 400 ml

The Mr. Olympia guys use that much every hour

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-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Major (Tom)

Alot of people who tried HGH and didnt get any results there could be a few reasons.
1, if you didn't get it from a pharmacy directly, packed cold, no higher than 43 degres F, the protein probally denatured. HGH MUST be kept cold at all times.
2. Did you buy it from Vinny at the gym? There is alot of fake HGH out there. Usually, the powder in the vial is HCG. If you didnt get your gear from a doc, and you are taking stuff from vinny, buy a pregnancy test. If it is indeed filled with HCG you will set it off.
Also, HGH almost ALWAYS causes carpel tunnel syndrome or tingling in the wrists when it starts to work. If it doesnt, 1, you arent on high enough doeses, 2, it's fake. FYI, the carpel tunnel is temp btw. Also, if acromeglia is in your family you will want to avoid HGH as you could become a Rocky Dennis Jr.
The best way about this is to get you levels checked by a dr who specializes in rejuvination. If your levels are low, you will be able to get it legally and with no hassle. Getting your gear from fly by nights is dangerous. Always see a doc.
just my 2 cents.
Cheers.
Duke

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d-null

you are an exception to the norm then, 400 mg a week of testosterone will cause shrinkage in most men, and it is certainly enough to shut down or extremely supress your endogenous production and your endogenous LH and FSH

400 mg a week will most likely also put your free testosterone levels way over the normal levels, probably double a high normal level for most men (depending on your shbg and aromatase activity)

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Major (Tom)

Thats a pretty fair dose. Definatley look into an aromatase inhibitor like anastrozole. Definatley a must.
cheers,
duke

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Licentious

Andropause starts in some males at 40, most men by 55 have seen nearly all of their testosterone depleted. "Testosterone supplements" are actually transdermal carriers or injections. I honestly would advise against the use of HGH on the long term, too many side effects. However, nearly every patient Ive seen treated with hormone replacement therapy (in this case testosterone replacement therapy) has reported feeling "like they're 25 again."

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Pleasurepays

hgh was originally regulated because it was being extracted from cadavers and a bunch of children were injected with an infected batch and contracted some disease (too lazy to look it up and refresh my memory)

i think you are misunderstanding what everyone is talking about. "proper use"= only positive benefits. there is nothing about "way too easy". diet and exercise matter and are important but are only part of the equation when it comes to why your body is breaking down. diet and exercise can do a lot to slow this process. the responsible use of these drugs serves to simply supplement what your body is no longer producing or releasing into your system.

"steroids" covers a very wide range of drugs, many of which are very powerful, dangerous and even lethal. the primary reason for their being made illegal (The Anabolic Steroids Control Act of 1990 - whereas, before they were regulated by the FDA) was primarily due to rising abuse in teens/young people and black market sales.

this discussion is not about "drugs" or "steroids" - think of it like this. some people here are saying "hey, a glass of red wine, once a day will do wonders for your heart - here's why" - others are saying "anyone who drinks everyday is an alcoholic". the word "steroids" is used to classify and describe a wide range of dangerous drugs and comes with significant taboos attached to it, but within the context of this analogy and this discussion, its like using a word like "alcohol" because its super taboo and never distinguishing between a person who has a glass of red wine with dinner and a homeless guy downing 2 bottles of cheap vodka each day.

anyone arguing that there is some huge health risk to responsibly using testosterone and hgh is misinformed or is like TheDoc and simply doing searches on Google while he tries to argue for the sake of arguing and starts pulling random shit, myth and hype out of his ass.

its very simple. at around 25, your body begins its decline (although others are saying 30 here). your natural production of testosterone begins to taper off. diet and exercise won't stop it. it can only slow the decline. as a male, your body is genetically programmed to grow, fight, fuck and then break down and die. so at a very young age, your body starts releasing less and less HGH as well and the rate of decline is on a curve which accelerates over time. all your hormones fall out of balance with each other (another super long bio chemistry/A&P discussion) and your health begins to fall apart.

every aspect of your life is affected by this process and increasingly so over time. its a gradual process. you slowly start aching more, you have less and less energy, you slowly start losing muscle mass, it becomes harder and harder to maintain/gain muscle mass, you slowly start gaining more fat, you start having a hard(er) time losing fat, your libido wanes, your body takes longer and longer to repair itself, your mental acuity and ability to think and focus slowly decline, your energy levels slowly decline, your flexibility declines, your bones become more brittle, the collagen in your skin declines, your immune function declines and so on and so on and so on.

an uninformed person can say "all you have to do is eat right and exercise" but its not that simple. how can i say that? well... unlike some uninformed jackass like TheDoc, myself, tical, robbie and i'm sure others workout AND regularly get our blood work done regularly to monitor our bodies production of everything - testosterone, hgh, igf1, t3, estrogen, progesterone, DHT and a fairly wide range of other things to fully understand the physiological impact of 1) not doing anything 2) diet and exercising only 3) exercising and diet while using testosterone and HGH.

a simple fact in all this is that you can significantly increase your own quality of life by proper/responsible/monitored testosterone/hgh supplementation. it can't be described to anyone who doesn't know the difference of "before" and "after". it also isn't going to make much sense to someone who is 25 and in great shape. no one here is going to understand how bad they feel and how good they used to feel until they take that step, boost their testosterone levels back up to the higher end of the range and all they will be thinking is "holy fuck! i remember feeling like this all the time when i was younger. i had no idea how far from that place i was".

now... did this guy use hgh for 60 days and go through a magical transformation? did hgh by itself, make him lose 30 pounds? no. not under any normal circumstances and not from hgh alone (i.e. changing diet, exercising more etc). hgh does not work like that. he can scream all he wants about how great he feels, its called the placebo effect. under normal circumstances, you wouldn't feel anything for many many months... and the effects are so gradual that you might not really be aware of them at all without keeping a detailed diary as many do. is it extremely beneficial to your health to use HGH responsibly? hell yes!

Badmaash

Well HGH is usually taken with other things such as androgens, T3, Inlusin and IGF-1..... the only problem when taking such a cocktail.... what did what? what did not work? What did work? To deal with it scientifically you are going to need physicians, chemists and scientists to help you in your quest for the perfect mixology specific to your own body - if you got the money to hire all these people that is....

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BlackCrayon

you'd think the medical world would be pushing for many to be on this, think of all of the savings in expensive medical procedures. As I get older I think about it more but don't know if I could start taking something that my body will become dependent on as should I run out with no reliable source, I'd be pretty screwed. I'm not sure how easy/hard it is to get perscribed in canada.

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Robbie

In my opinion you just kinda answered your own question.

From the things I read though...the AMA was totally AGAINST making steroids illegal. And fought against the FDA's decision to turn them into a Schedule 3 drug.

Basically if an 18 year old guy walks around he is carrying enough testosterone in his body NATURALLY....that if you could somehow siphon off a 200 ml vial from him, you would be in as much trouble as if you were walking around with a bag of heroin!

It's amazing what "we the people" allow our govt. to dictate to us.

A naturally occurring hormone in our bodies that is flowing through every young male, is a Schedule 3 drug according to our govt.

Just one of the many reasons that Europeans laugh at our dumb asses.

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-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

BlackCrayon

I'll have to check into the laws in canada regarding this. We are not a for profit health care country but I don't hear about people taking this.

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Pleasurepays

you don't become dependent on anything. your levels will just go back to where they were before you started taking anything.

pr0

I understand fully what you are saying. I myself just started exercising everyday (for the first time in my life) & i feel great. I fucked a girl last night 4 times, over the course of 2-3 hours.....something I wouldn't have been able to do 6 months ago without having a heart attack. I think exercise & diet are the key to everything now.

However.....as modern medical technology advances & provides an outlet to live a much better lifestyle while "on drugs". Why not? Is it really any different than having a few drinks, or a pot of coffee everyday, when done in a safe/monitored environment (with a professional aging doctor)?

I say let these old guys do whatever they want to re-capture their youth. For thousands of years kings/queens/prophets/philosophers & everyday people searched for the fountain of youth. Now its here.....& you would have people not drink from the fountain? Lets be real.....this will be the biggest medical business in the entire world soon

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pr0

People like Duke, who have done their research, have a doctor, are of sound mind-body & understand all of the risk/benefit equations should be the only ones allowed to tinker with stuff like HGH & steroids IMO.

Someone off the street with no understanding.....but what they heard on GFY, or some body building forum, is in for a bad ride

Robbie

Why would they be in for a bad ride? It's not brain surgery. If you're a guy in your mid 30's and up, just pop 200 ml. of test in your ass once a week. Use 1 to 2 iu's of hgh everyday.

You aren't gonna have a bad ride from doing that. Matter of fact you're gonna feel like a million bucks.

Everyday people use nicotine and KILL themselves. Everyday people consume mass quantities of fattening food and KILL themselves. Sugar, caffeine, etc

And yet when you talk about using a natural hormone, people immediately have an image in their heads of bodybuilders abusing it. Or the govt. propaganda they've been fed.

Yes, if you take too much of ANYTHING you will be harmed.

Nobody has ever died from taking 200 ml of test and 2 iu's of HGH. Never.

Everyday millions of folks do die from their bad eating habits over a lifetime, and lack of physical excercise. Not to mention drinking and smoking, etc.

It should be a choice that a person is free to make. It just seems foolish to make statements like "in for a bad ride" about it. 99.9% of people are REALLY in for a bad ride from what they are doing to their bodies eating the foods that they eat. But I don't hear anybody making those cryptic statements about that. Millions die, and I hear the crickets chirping. A guy gets muscular and feels great and the prophets of doom are screaming at the top of their lungs.

Our country sure has it's shit completely backwards!
Of course we're the same bunch of geniuses who think it's just fine for our kids to see people slaughtered in movies, but make it a crime if they see fucking or nudity.

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-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

d-null

from what I've heard it is tougher in canada, the doctors are all paid by national health care and it is harder for a doctor to go off on his own research and use unconventional medicine like HRT for males with low normal testosterone or HGH for rejuvenation purposes, they give the doctors such a hard time that it is extremely hard to find a doctor that will take any chance with it

in the U.S. it is far from perfect but there are doctor's that specialize in it and if you are an aging male you have a much better chance

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d-null

not necessarily

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Vexes

Sounds to me like you would want to sit on Obama'a death panels.

Porn Grounds

I need a doctor in Massachusetts...

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TheDoc

Oh yeah totally.. I would have no issues ridding of our world of stupid people, just make sure you're first in line and all will be good.

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TrafficRush

can u share some pics?

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Pleasurepays

the single greatest irony of being dumb... is that as the dumb person, you're always the last to realize it.

TheDoc

Wow, does this mean I have officially have haters now? This is cool.... it's lame that it's the scum of gfy, but that's okay I guess, it's a base to build off of.

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Pleasurepays

yep! you now have people who officially recognize that you're retarded. congrats! now its just you, corky and pauly shore in your little elite club.