Could this be why CCBill conversions aren't that great? - GoFuckYourself.com

stocktrader23 · 10-26-2010, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipflop

My screen froze whilst checking out for a small amount...

I got charged twice...

They agreed to "deal with it"...

A few weeks passed and I suggested instead of a refund they credited my account...

They didn't...

I complained to their processor CCBill - they basically told me to fuck off...

I asked AFSC once more to refund or credit - they simply didn't bother answering...

Despite it being a small amount the principle annoyed the fuck out of me...

My credit card company contacted them - again no reply so the company charged back...

Well fuck me the next time I go to use my Visa business credit card to buy content from Scarlett - a superb content company - the transaction is declined by CCBill...

They say because I charged back on AFSC my card is now on their "blacklist"...

I'm trying to sort this out - but for the sake of a few dollars AFSC have royally screwed me...

Thanks...

So if someone fucks you over and you charge back because the processor tells you to get lost then you can no longer sign up for any site using that processor? Sounds extremely reasonable!

TheDA · 10-26-2010, 03:30 AM

My ccbill conversions are great, best they have ever been...

DWB · 10-26-2010, 03:30 AM

I use ccbill for affiliate sales, yet my own card is always declined by them. Never made a chargeback on that card. Not sure how I ended up on their naughty list. Zombaio declines it too. Epoch does not. Go figure.

redwhiteandblue · 10-26-2010, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

So if someone fucks you over and you charge back because the processor tells you to get lost then you can no longer sign up for any site using that processor? Sounds extremely reasonable!

Yeah I think it's called "scrubbing" or something?

stocktrader23 · 10-26-2010, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

I use ccbill for affiliate sales, yet my own card is always declined by them. Never made a chargeback on that card. Not sure how I ended up on their naughty list. Zombaio declines it too. Epoch does not. Go figure.

I actually had the same problem years ago. For the record, I've never charged back anything in my life. I'm too damn lazy to bother with it. I haven't tried lately but seems silly.

stocktrader23 · 10-26-2010, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDA

My ccbill conversions are great, best they have ever been...

Define great.

Quote:

Originally Posted by redwhiteandblue

Yeah I think it's called "scrubbing" or something?

Right, they scrub someone that they wouldn't help to start with? I guess they don't want those big bad troublemakers that got double billed to use their service.

redwhiteandblue · 10-26-2010, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

Right, they scrub someone that they wouldn't help to start with? I guess they don't want those big bad troublemakers that got double billed to use their service.

Do you think they have some poor sod going through all the chargebacks and refunds going "Hmm, he sounds a bit dodgy, let's add him to the blacklist....ok this one only charged back because blah blah, let's leave him out..."? No, they have an algorithm -

if(chargedBack = true)
{
blacklist(theFucker);
}

stocktrader23 · 10-26-2010, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redwhiteandblue

Do you think they have some poor sod going through all the chargebacks and refunds going "Hmm, he sounds a bit dodgy, let's add him to the blacklist....ok this one only charged back because blah blah, let's leave him out..."? No, they have an algorithm -

if(chargedBack = true)
{
blacklist(theFucker);
}

And considering the way they handle refunds in at least some cases then this could easily lead to worse ratios.

Which is what I said in the first place.

Which is true.

What was your point again?

DamianJ · 10-26-2010, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

Zombaio declines it too. Epoch does not. Go figure.

I figure that different IPSPs use different proprietary scrubs...

Your post<------------------------------------------------------->rocket science

redwhiteandblue · 10-26-2010, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

And considering the way they handle refunds in at least some cases then this could easily lead to worse ratios.

Which is what I said in the first place.

Which is true.

What was your point again?

My point was, you've only just discovered this, and you've been here since 2003?

stocktrader23 · 10-26-2010, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redwhiteandblue

My point was, you've only just discovered this, and you've been here since 2003?

Just discovered? No.

iSpyCams · 10-26-2010, 05:10 AM

Chargeback = Blacklist. As it should.

Surfers cannot be allowed to constantly be charging back and signing up again every time they want to rub one out.

Visa and MC rules are too strict to allow this.

Some processors even share the blacklist, if they are using the same bank.

I do agree though that CCBill can be a pretty thick headed about refunds. I was told by someone at CCbill that by default the only reason they will do a refund at a surfer's request is if the surfer insists that his password is not working or alledges fraud.

I had to ask them specifically to ad a note to my account viewable by CSR's stating that we have an open refund policy.

Shortly afterward I called their customer service line requesting a refund for a customer who had contacted me and the CSR did not want to do it, since the account is in my partner's name and I didn't happen to have his SSN handy to claim I was him.

I told the CSR that we have an open refund policy and that if he checks his notes he will see that. He checked, saw it, and did the refund, but I still had to point it out.

passionreviews · 10-26-2010, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redwhiteandblue

Do you think they have some poor sod going through all the chargebacks and refunds going "Hmm, he sounds a bit dodgy, let's add him to the blacklist....ok this one only charged back because blah blah, let's leave him out..."? No, they have an algorithm -

if(chargedBack = true)
{
blacklist(theFucker);
}

That's the digital age for ya. Great program!

Paul Markham · 10-26-2010, 08:42 AM

On the content store we have 3 credit card processors. If CCBILL bounce them the odds on one of the others accepting them are slim. The reasons I suspect are varied. But with all the fraud going on we rely on the processors to limit it as much as possible.

SwirlsGirl · 10-26-2010, 08:52 AM

I think there may be other reasons why sales "appear" to be down.

Has something to do with accurate stats reporting, but you guys have shown you are not grown up enough for that conversation so carry on everything is fine...the PR department said so

TheDA · 10-26-2010, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

On the content store we have 3 credit card processors. If CCBILL bounce them the odds on one of the others accepting them are slim. The reasons I suspect are varied. But with all the fraud going on we rely on the processors to limit it as much as possible.

When the CCbill cascade works as it should and a lost CCbill sales get picked up by another processor that's great.

There's been occasions in the past few months when the cascade hasn't worked properly and affiliates were not getting credited for these sales.

That was one program I know of, who knows how many more were effected by it.

DirtyDanza · 10-26-2010, 09:24 AM

it's been like that for years dood where have you been?

jesus all the newbs in the industry just learning of shit we knew in 2001 is starting to drive me nutts....

at least learn the biz before you jump on

Ethersync · 10-26-2010, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

So if someone fucks you over and you charge back because the processor tells you to get lost then you can no longer sign up for any site using that processor? Sounds extremely reasonable!

Yeah, it's absurd. I think they blacklist by email and IP as well.

sortie · 10-26-2010, 09:30 AM

I think the customer should have taken a refund instead of requesting to have it
done in "his way".

Also he/she says "A few weeks passed" and I'm wondering if he/she bought software.

hmmm?

Ethersync · 10-26-2010, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sortie

I think the customer should have taken a refund instead of requesting to have it
done in "his way".

Also he/she says "A few weeks passed" and I'm wondering if he/she bought software.

hmmm?

He asked for a refund. He got double charged for content he bought. Did you read the post?

maxxtro · 10-26-2010, 11:16 AM

Could this be why CCBill conversions aren't that great?

Machete_ · 10-26-2010, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDA

My ccbill conversions are great, best they have ever been...

neg repped for bullshitting

Machete_ · 10-26-2010, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redwhiteandblue

Yeah I think it's called "scrubbing" or something?

Bingo.

CCbill scrubs the hardest out of all processors.

MobiusMike · 10-26-2010, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pompousjohn

Chargeback = Blacklist. As it should.

Surfers cannot be allowed to constantly be charging back and signing up again every time they want to rub one out.

Visa and MC rules are too strict to allow this.

Some processors even share the blacklist, if they are using the same bank.

I do agree though that CCBill can be a pretty thick headed about refunds. I was told by someone at CCbill that by default the only reason they will do a refund at a surfer's request is if the surfer insists that his password is not working or alledges fraud.

I had to ask them specifically to ad a note to my account viewable by CSR's stating that we have an open refund policy.

Shortly afterward I called their customer service line requesting a refund for a customer who had contacted me and the CSR did not want to do it, since the account is in my partner's name and I didn't happen to have his SSN handy to claim I was him.

I told the CSR that we have an open refund policy and that if he checks his notes he will see that. He checked, saw it, and did the refund, but I still had to point it out.

I have to disagree. I have a real problem with most fraud scrubs for reasons similar to the OP.

For obvious reasons, the gateway operator can't disclose their scoring methodology and most try to provide a "tuning" system that loosens or tightens the scrub based on performance but you often have cases where good sales are being declined.

There are many things a program operator can do to limit chargeback activity on their accounts and maximize sales that don't include scrubbing.

Many webmasters here complain about programs that drop out, stop paying, etc, etc. There are also programs who have billing methods/practices that will increase their likelihood of getting chargebacks. If a legitimate customer who feels like he was taken advantage of charges back a transaction because the operator won't provide them with a credit (when they should) that customer is not necessarily a risk to the next program.

Exit-chat · 10-26-2010, 12:00 PM

What can you share with us about reasons why some companies will see a very large submit to join decline ratio when others dont.

I have a few clients that are running NATS and the same processors but 1 site will only see about 30- 40% of the submitted on join form to an actual join sale and another will see about 65-70% get accepted from the nats submit to actual join sale.

Could this be because of scrub settings in Nats not matching the processors scrub settings?

Or is there something else that can be done to increase the successful submit on join form in nats to a completed join sale on the processors side?

Any insight will be greatly appreciated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MobiusMike

I have to disagree. I have a real problem with most fraud scrubs for reasons similar to the OP.

For obvious reasons, the gateway operator can't disclose their scoring methodology and most try to provide a "tuning" system that loosens or tightens the scrub based on performance but you often have cases where good sales are being declined.

There are many things a program operator can do to limit chargeback activity on their accounts and maximize sales that don't include scrubbing.

Many webmasters here complain about programs that drop out, stop paying, etc, etc. There are also programs who have billing methods/practices that will increase their likelihood of getting chargebacks. If a legitimate customer who feels like he was taken advantage of charges back a transaction because the operator won't provide them with a credit (when they should) that customer is not necessarily a risk to the next program.

MobiusMike · 10-26-2010, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exit-chat

What can you share with us about reasons why some companies will see a very large submit to join decline ratio when others dont.

I have a few clients that are running NATS and the same processors but 1 site will only see about 30- 40% of the submitted on join form to an actual join sale and another will see about 65-70% get accepted from the nats submit to actual join sale.

Could this be because of scrub settings in Nats not matching the processors scrub settings?

Or is there something else that can be done to increase the successful submit on join form in nats to a completed join sale on the processors side?

Any insight will be greatly appreciated.

Rick:

Please feel free to get in touch with me to discuss in more detail. The response I'd give is too detailed for this forum, but a short reply would be to track the transactions starting at the far end (acquiring bank/entity) backward through the gateway and then to NATS (originating point).

Mike

SwirlsGirl · 10-26-2010, 01:46 PM

What would you say if a representative from a top tier premier billing company went on record saying there was a long time,continuing, unresolved problem within the billing system, that would cause various admin stats...join form hits,join form submissions, declines,conversions,etc... to be "INACCURATE" at times?

Honest answer please....

stocktrader23 · 10-26-2010, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwirlsGirl

What would you say if a representative from a top tier premier billing company went on record saying there was a long time,continuing, unresolved problem within the billing system, that would cause various admin stats...join form hits,join form submissions, declines,conversions,etc... to be "INACCURATE" at times?

Honest answer please....

MobiusMike · 10-26-2010, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwirlsGirl

What would you say if a representative from a top tier premier billing company went on record saying there was a long time,continuing, unresolved problem within the billing system, that would cause various admin stats...join form hits,join form submissions, declines,conversions,etc... to be "INACCURATE" at times?

Honest answer please....

That would be.....disturbing.

Believe me, I've seen everything from mis-indexed responses causing declines to show as approved and approved as declines to the re-routing of sales transactions through the wrong MID (merchant account ID), too time-out errors which caused the site operator to receive time-out declines for cards that received auths outside of the timeout setting.

In general though, processing company profitability depends on accuracy so I would be interested to see how they've stayed in business without being accurate.

Exit-chat · 10-26-2010, 01:59 PM

I would ask who that might be and if they have any solutions to figure out the issues...

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwirlsGirl

What would you say if a representative from a top tier premier billing company went on record saying there was a long time,continuing, unresolved problem within the billing system, that would cause various admin stats...join form hits,join form submissions, declines,conversions,etc... to be "INACCURATE" at times?

Honest answer please....

Dirty Dane · 10-26-2010, 02:05 PM

In past two years I haven't had any chargebacks on ccbill.

10-26-2010, 08:42 AM	#14
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	On the content store we have 3 credit card processors. If CCBILL bounce them the odds on one of the others accepting them are slim. The reasons I suspect are varied. But with all the fraud going on we rely on the processors to limit it as much as possible. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

10-26-2010, 09:24 AM	#17
DirtyDanza Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: BP4L.... Las Vegas, Posts: 8,369	it's been like that for years dood where have you been? jesus all the newbs in the industry just learning of shit we knew in 2001 is starting to drive me nutts.... at least learn the biz before you jump on __________________ AVN Nominated Camming Couple

10-26-2010, 09:30 AM	#19
sortie Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 7,771	I think the customer should have taken a refund instead of requesting to have it done in "his way". Also he/she says "A few weeks passed" and I'm wondering if he/she bought software. hmmm? __________________

10-26-2010, 11:16 AM	#21
maxxtro Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: EU Posts: 561	Could this be why CCBill conversions aren't that great? __________________

10-26-2010, 03:30 AM	#2
TheDA Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 4,665	My ccbill conversions are great, best they have ever been...

10-26-2010, 03:30 AM	#3
DWB Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Encrypted. Access denied. Posts: 31,779	I use ccbill for affiliate sales, yet my own card is always declined by them. Never made a chargeback on that card. Not sure how I ended up on their naughty list. Zombaio declines it too. Epoch does not. Go figure.

10-26-2010, 05:10 AM	#12
iSpyCams Amateur Gynecologist Industry Role: Join Date: May 2009 Location: Medellin Posts: 4,436	Chargeback = Blacklist. As it should. Surfers cannot be allowed to constantly be charging back and signing up again every time they want to rub one out. Visa and MC rules are too strict to allow this. Some processors even share the blacklist, if they are using the same bank. I do agree though that CCBill can be a pretty thick headed about refunds. I was told by someone at CCbill that by default the only reason they will do a refund at a surfer's request is if the surfer insists that his password is not working or alledges fraud. I had to ask them specifically to ad a note to my account viewable by CSR's stating that we have an open refund policy. Shortly afterward I called their customer service line requesting a refund for a customer who had contacted me and the CSR did not want to do it, since the account is in my partner's name and I didn't happen to have his SSN handy to claim I was him. I told the CSR that we have an open refund policy and that if he checks his notes he will see that. He checked, saw it, and did the refund, but I still had to point it out.

10-26-2010, 08:52 AM	#15
SwirlsGirl So Fucking Banned Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: between east coast and vegas Posts: 2,067	I think there may be other reasons why sales "appear" to be down. Has something to do with accurate stats reporting, but you guys have shown you are not grown up enough for that conversation so carry on everything is fine...the PR department said so

10-26-2010, 01:46 PM	#27
SwirlsGirl So Fucking Banned Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: between east coast and vegas Posts: 2,067	What would you say if a representative from a top tier premier billing company went on record saying there was a long time,continuing, unresolved problem within the billing system, that would cause various admin stats...join form hits,join form submissions, declines,conversions,etc... to be "INACCURATE" at times? Honest answer please....

10-26-2010, 02:05 PM	#31
Dirty Dane Sick Fuck Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: www Posts: 9,491	In past two years I haven't had any chargebacks on ccbill.